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In the Name of God بسم الله

Iran and Forced Hijab Rule/Censorship

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you cant force holiness onto anyone, and you cant force them to leave, ask them to leave, or hint that they should leave if they don't like it. everyone has the equal right to live where they were born. there's this thing called "basic human rights". you might have heard of it.

Iran is not a holy place (lol). its a country made up of regular people. the exact same vices found in the great devil west are found in Iran. tell me a single thing that Iran is free from, which the west has, that its inhabitants have earned the right to point fingers at other countries?

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1 hour ago, YAli said:

@DigitalUmmah His point is valid though, the country is just trying to protect itself and it's people. You cannot force force religion sure, especially inside people's home, but out in the open and on the streets and on the internet, sure you can to an appropriate extent. If a person in Iran (or even Saudi for that matter) drinks alcohol at home, no-one knows and no one is spying on him. No forcing happening there. He drinks standing in the street, then for sure there will be some forcing of 'holiness' which will take place, and i say bloody good. 

I am a brother btw 

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People love secularism in their hearts these days and reject religion.

1 hour ago, DigitalUmmah said:

you cant force holiness onto anyone, and you cant force them to leave, ask them to leave, or hint that they should leave if they don't like it. everyone has the equal right to live where they were born. there's this thing called "basic human rights". you might have heard of it. 

Iran is not a holy place (lol). its a country made up of regular people. the exact same vices found in the great devil west are found in Iran. tell me a single thing that Iran is free from, which the west has, that its inhabitants have earned the right to point fingers at other countries?  

It is the place of our holy shrines, a place of scholars, and a place of people who want to have a pious environment, without visual pollution, without corruption and sexualisation rampant in the society. For a leader that is trying to keep it from downfall I don't see a problem in this. If the hijab was to be removed and people would be able to wear what they want, the indecency would be as common as it is here, and social norms would change to destructive ones.

Edited by yashia
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16 minutes ago, YAli said:

@DigitalUmmah His point is valid though, the country is just trying to protect itself and it's people. You cannot force force religion sure, especially inside people's home, but out in the open and on the streets and on the internet, sure you can to an appropriate extent. If a person in Iran (or even Saudi for that matter) drinks alcohol at home, no-one knows and no one is spying on him. No forcing happening there. He drinks standing in the street, then for sure there will be some forcing of 'holiness' which will take place, and i say bloody good. 

enforcing hijab doesn't somehow magically protect people from sin. it just makes them more sneaky. people are going to sin no matter what the government wants. 

my point was that we must immediately stop seeing the country of Iran as some pure, holy, virginal state full of pious momineen and only a fringe few sinners are doing debauchery who need to be driven out of the country. 

the truth is, Iran is not much different from any other country. pretending the country is holy is absurd. 

3 minutes ago, yashia said:

People love secularism in their hearts these days and reject religion, tho

It is the place of our holy shrines, a place of scholars, and a place of people who want to have a pious environment, without visual pollution, without corruption and sexualisation rampant in the society. For a leader that is trying to keep it from downfall I don't see a problem in this. If the hijab was to be removed and people would be able to wear what they want, the indecency would be as common as it is here, and social norms would change to destructive ones.

theres more to Iran than holy site bro. I dont think you will find anyone here saying we should open up sex shops in the holy precincts. indecency comes from peoples hearts, not their clothes. 

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Me I totally agree with the hijab law in iran and I hope more muslim countries will apply this in the future.

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One thing I dont understand is that before the revolution when hijab was banned, many Iranian women wanted to wear hijab, but after the revolution when hijab was enforced, loads of the women suddenly hated it and want to take it off.

I dont understand why.

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19 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

enforcing hijab doesn't somehow magically protect people from sin. it just makes them more sneaky. people are going to sin no matter what the government wants. 

my point was that we must immediately stop seeing the country of Iran as some pure, holy, virginal state full of pious momineen and only a fringe few sinners are doing debauchery who need to be driven out of the country. 

the truth is, Iran is not much different from any other country. pretending the country is holy is absurd. 

theres more to Iran than holy site bro. I dont think you will find anyone here saying we should open up sex shops in the holy precincts. indecency comes from peoples hearts, not their clothes. 

You honestly don't know what your talking  about. Read Muhammad Shirazi's or sadiq Shirazi's book Islamic government. Your a shirazi pro tatbir guy last time I checked right? He even says in their an Islamic society should force Islamic laws like hijab he just doesn't believe sharia punishments hudood should be enforced in the ghayba sure but he still believes in enforced hijab and other Islamic rules. 

2nd the people are going to sin anyways argument can be used for hijab itself are you against hijab now? There is a point in hijab.

3. The society makes it easier for religious people to be religious and harder for those weaker in faith to sin so that way the society grows in spirituality even those who aren't the strongest in faith so the society prospers. 

4. Don't assume "people will be more sneaky" you shouldn't assume badly about fellow Muslims. This is not the case it actually works and has its effect on society that's why Allah makes it wajib on all Muslim women whether in an Islamic government or not.

5. Iran is different from all other countries especially because of the great leadership they have with sayed ali Khamenei(ha)

Edited by Al Hadi
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6 minutes ago, emceemo40 said:

One thing I dont understand is that before the revolution when hijab was banned, many Iranian women wanted to wear hijab, but after the revolution when hijab was enforced, loads of the women suddenly hated it and want to take it off.

I dont understand why.

You don't understand the revolution at all last time I checked you were against it. And what you said Is just western propaganda not really true. They didn't think of hijab as number 1 thing in their mind there was the shah massacreing many of their people to worry about.

Edited by Al Hadi
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"Indeed, if You leave them, they will mislead Your servants and (they) will beget none except lewd (immoral) ingrates."

- The Holy Quran, Surah Nuh | 71:27

1 hour ago, DigitalUmmah said:

indecency comes from peoples hearts, not their clothes. 

Allah Swt is Al-Hakim. Why is it then wajib for a woman to cover her hair and forbidden for a woman to wear makeup (or apparent makeup)  and even nail polish. Or why is it emphasised  upon shariah wise for a man to also dress up properly, especially in front of the opposite gender?

Indecency can come from the clothing of an individual. If one is wearing something disgusting because it is "in fashion" as they say and they get unlawful attention, many an intention may change from wearing something because it is popular, to wearing something because of the attention they get - which further corrupts the individual and others involved.

IMG_8020.PNG

Edited by yashia
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18 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

enforcing hijab doesn't somehow magically protect people from sin. it just makes them more sneaky. people are going to sin no matter what the government wants.

Wouldn't it be better if indecency was carefully monitored so it was not done in public? At least it would be in private.

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6 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Ok guys Im wrong. enforcing hijab on people who don't want to adhere to them will guarantee that Iran remains pure and holy. good job. it will also prevent them from sins because how you dress in public affects how you act in private. 

I understood where you were coming from as well. But if the veil is taken off, other things will also be allowed, and it will become like America. There needs to be some preventative measure so it does not happen. If there is a better idea, state it.

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1 hour ago, Al Hadi said:

Your a shirazi pro tatbir guy last time I checked right?

This is another problem in our society, the people that believe in these paid individuals, who curse all our leaders (may Allah Swt bless them) and never say anything about the oppressors.

Imam Hussein (As) told us not to do these things to ourselves.

Quote

and Imam al Sadiq (As): 

"Become an ornament for us, do not be a disgrace for us."
 
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3 hours ago, yashia said:

بِسْم الله الرحمن الرحيم

There are many people today that look down upon Iran, Sayed Ali Khamenei, and Ruhollah Khomeini (may Allah Swt bless them) of our greatest allies.

When there are 1000000 bad social norms in our western countries no one complains.

When there is one law of modesty in Iran, everyone complains, does anyone see anything wrong with that?

Also, at a time of fitnah like today, would it not be appropriate for bad websites that are linked to haram and fitnah be blocked from Iran?

From what is causing a moral decline in our countries, do you think a country that is thriving like Iran needs to allow a moral decline to also occur and allow all this immorality and allow everyone to dress like animals, allow anything to be on the media and call it "freedom" then wreck children, the family structure and the whole society?

Iran is a holy place, if nobody wants to follow the rules, they are free to go. Many people that I have seen that have fled Iran drink, take drugs, and live a western life and want to live a perverted life which is why they come here. Others come here for factors such as work and are religious, a lot of these people do not blame Iran but praise Iran and the Islamic revolution.

We should be more optimistic about our allies that are trying the best in the cause of Allah Swt, and are trying to uphold the truth, also to try to be in the best interest of the people, considering the times we live in and considering the fitnah.

Not wearing a veil should not be equated to moral decline. 

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1 hour ago, YAli said:

@DigitalUmmah His point is valid though, the country is just trying to protect itself and it's people. You cannot force force religion sure, especially inside people's home, but out in the open and on the streets and on the internet, sure you can to an appropriate extent. If a person in Iran (or even Saudi for that matter) drinks alcohol at home, no-one knows and no one is spying on him. No forcing happening there. He drinks standing in the street, then for sure there will be some forcing of 'holiness' which will take place, and i say bloody good. 

And not wearing a veil should not be equated to a sloppy drunk in the streets, or even just an alcoholic or person with a beer.

Edited by iCambrian
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1 minute ago, iCambrian said:

And not wearing a veil should not be equated to a sloppy drunk in the streets

theres not a single instance of a lady wearing hijab being raped or sexually assaulted in Iranian history. if a woman is raped, its her own fault for dressing so shamelessly. 

if we forced all women in the world to wear full burqa? all rape would end. 

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1 minute ago, DigitalUmmah said:

theres not a single instance of a lady wearing hijab being raped or sexually assaulted in Iranian history. if a woman is raped, its her own fault for dressing so shamelessly. 

if we forced all women in the world to wear full burqa? all rape would end. 

Do you think the man would not get charged in the Islamic courtroom? He did the crime.

Burqa is arguably cultural than religious. One of the reasons is because at Haj, shariah wise you must take it off as it is not apart of the criteria. If it was mustahab (highly recommended) Allah Swt would have allowed a mustahab act like this in the Haj, which is the most holiest place, but it's not allowed there.

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25 minutes ago, Al Hadi said:

You don't understand the revolution at all last time I checked you were against it. And what you said Is just western propaganda not really true. They didn't think of hijab as number 1 thing in their mind there was the shah massacreing many of their people to worry about.

What a load of rubbish!          If you have something to say, stay on topic and dont speak mindlessly.

I said before the revolution, women supported the hijab, after the revolution they hated it and want to take it off.                     What Im saying, is that I dont understand why one day they think one opinion, the next day they think the complete opposite.

Where is the logic in that!?

Also Im not against the fact that hijab is obligatory in Iran, so dont make false accusations against me please.

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11 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

theres not a single instance of a lady wearing hijab being raped or sexually assaulted in Iranian history. if a woman is raped, its her own fault for dressing so shamelessly. 

if we forced all women in the world to wear full burqa? all rape would end. 

Where do you get your sources from?

This sounds like a CNN article.

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53 minutes ago, emceemo40 said:

One thing I dont understand is that before the revolution when hijab was banned, many Iranian women wanted to wear hijab, but after the revolution when hijab was enforced, loads of the women suddenly hated it and want to take it off.

I dont understand why.

I think i know why. Its a mix of things; cultural trends over the past few decades, and youth being rebellious and taking western ideals and people (celebrities) as idols, among other influences. 

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21 minutes ago, yashia said:

@iCambrian On your profile it says you are Christian.

The Quran doesn't say this but in the bible it says, if a woman's hair isn't covered, it should be shaved off.

Perhaps if you take the views of a literalist, you would find this reasonable.

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Nobody has claimed or intended that the policies prevent everything or has been an overnight success. This "all or nothing" talk is just unproductive hyperbole, because that was never the idea in the first place. 

Everything, especially social change based on a principle, happens gradually and incrementally - with collective results. The key is for the forces of power and influence to institute a cultural force - through law, marketing, promotion, etc. If the policy satisfies animal instincts, it usually permeates through society quicker . When it doesn't, it's a slower and uphill battle, but it's supposed to be more worth it in the end, right?

The idea is that overall, a society as a whole will steer in that direction. Yes, individual, anecdotal outliers will always be present. These outliers will never be eliminated, but can minimized if the tactics employed are effective. But the fact they can't be eliminated entirely, or unintended consequences can't be prevented entirely, is not sufficient reason to scrap the project altogether, especially if the principle is an important one. 

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29 minutes ago, yashia said:

Burqa is arguably cultural than religious.

May be but the ladies of the household of the Prophet took it more seriously. They would not let any single part of the body be seen even accidentally by the non-mahram, that is, those outside the immediate family.

So if we are to regard them as our role models, it is not entirely cultural. 

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7 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

you cant force holiness onto anyone, and you cant force them to leave, ask them to leave, or hint that they should leave if they don't like it. everyone has the equal right to live where they were born. there's this thing called "basic human rights". you might have heard of it.

Iran is not a holy place (lol). its a country made up of regular people. the exact same vices found in the great devil west are found in Iran. tell me a single thing that Iran is free from, which the west has, that its inhabitants have earned the right to point fingers at other countries?

we dont believe in human rights. In Islam (you might have heard of it) We believe in rights that god has appointed mankind. 

You consistently miss the point of different concepts. Who told you forcing hijab was to force holiness? 

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8 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

@DigitalUmmah your making me facepalm bro. Most marjas including yours (sayed Sistani) agree with the system Iran has in place, but it's just your hatred of Iran sealed really hard in your heart that's making you say all this. What a shame.

He is gonna deny it....but he won't get around it. It just delights me the more hate the nizam gets the more robust it gets. It warms my heart.

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2 hours ago, magma said:

Nobody has claimed or intended that the policies prevent everything or has been an overnight success. This "all or nothing" talk is just unproductive hyperbole, because that was never the idea in the first place. 

Everything, especially social change based on a principle, happens gradually and incrementally - with collective results. The key is for the forces of power and influence to institute a cultural force - through law, marketing, promotion, etc. If the policy satisfies animal instincts, it usually permeates through society quicker . When it doesn't, it's a slower and uphill battle, but it's supposed to be more worth it in the end, right?

The idea is that overall, a society as a whole will steer in that direction. Yes, individual, anecdotal outliers will always be present. These outliers will never be eliminated, but can minimized if the tactics employed are effective. But the fact they can't be eliminated entirely, or unintended consequences can't be prevented entirely, is not sufficient reason to scrap the project altogether, especially if the principle is an important one. 

This is a great and deep post, and you have very good insight. The bit highlighted in bold is especially a very wise observation. 

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Some people here seem to be restricting the benefits of doing hijab to the individual, saying that it does nothing to change their sins 'in private.' What about the societal effects of having an entire population adhere to Islamic dress codes in public? After all, whenever the Qur'an discusses hijab, it does so in relation to how other people view those who do hijab, not an individual's own sense of piety or holiness.

"And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their khimār over their breasts and not display their beauty except to their husband, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons ....and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments."

[24:31]

"Those who harass believing men and believing women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a grievous sin. O Prophet! Enjoin your wives, your daughters, and the wives of true believers that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): That is most convenient, that they may be distinguished and not be harassed."

[33:58-59]

The reason given for the commandment to do hijab is societal in its very nature, and has less to do with an individual's 'Islamicness' or quantity of sins. So to say that hijab shouldn't be enforced because "you can't force piety on someone" is to ignore the reasoning behind the commandment, and the fact that the hijab ruling is inherently one of social relations with other people.

Edited by Shaykh Patience101
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4 hours ago, emceemo40 said:

What a load of rubbish!          If you have something to say, stay on topic and dont speak mindlessly.

I said before the revolution, women supported the hijab, after the revolution they hated it and want to take it off.                     What Im saying, is that I dont understand why one day they think one opinion, the next day they think the complete opposite.

Where is the logic in that!?

Also Im not against the fact that hijab is obligatory in Iran, so dont make false accusations against me please.

Work on your reading comprehension Your the one who speaks mindlessly. Remember our conversations about chess and you making Khamenei(ha) out to be like the only marja that makes chess halal. Then you found out shaykh wahid and others make it halal. Ya you speak mindlessly not me.

Read what I said. You have no source to back up what your saying other than a pro Israel/USA  articles most likely that say Iranian women now hate hijab. God guide you.

Edited by Al Hadi
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