Clear evidence of NATO's plan

[Mohamed1993]

From an interview in 2005, look at her blatantly saying you're next regime change, Washington is talking of coups, saying they're actively looking for a new leader. They're offering visas to opposition politicians to overthrow you. Anyone who denies US involvement in the Syrian uprising is deluded at this point;

 

 

[Hassan-]

I don't think anyone at this point can deny he fact that USA or NATO are involved in Syria.

[Mohamed1993]

6 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

I don't think anyone at this point can deny he fact that USA or NATO are involved in Syria.

No but in the beginning everyone talked about peaceful protests, even those were hijacked.

[Learner2526]

Maybe Assad should have made reforms and then millions of people wouldn't be displaced and hundreds of thousands dead. The king of Morocco and the Sultan of Oman did it and thier still in power. Really don't understand why people even support this murderer.   

 

 

[Sumerian]

4 minutes ago, Learner2526 said:

Maybe Assad should have made reforms and then millions of people wouldn't be displaced and hundreds of thousands dead. The king of Morocco and the Sultan of Oman did it and thier still in power. Really don't understand why people even support this murderer.   

 

 

Lol you still don't get it do you. If Assad made Syria a utopia the "revolution" would have still happened. It was planned since before the protests.

[Mansur Bakhtiari]

^according to Wikileaks CIA activity in Syria began 2006

[Mohamed1993]

28 minutes ago, Learner2526 said:

Maybe Assad should have made reforms

So long as Assad didn't pander to Israel and abandon Iran and Hezbollah, there would've been a war in Syria, with a similar outcome. Like or hate Assad, this war has very little to do with him, its got everything to do with America and Israel not being able to tolerate a counterforce to them in the region. Assad can leave tomorrow and be replaced by the most democratic president the world has ever seen, so long as he didn't abandon Iran, Russia and Hezbollah and didn't submit to Israel like a slave, like some of the Gulf States have done, there would still be a problem. 

[myouvial]

When human learn to know their common enemy ?

 Is it until something happens ? :

Like animals who run panic seeing eruption of volcano, they, tiger and sheep, snake and mice, etc run together saving each of own self from eruption fire and lava.

[myouvial]

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/46640.htm

 

[David66]

Hello,

1 hour ago, Mohamed1993 said:

So long as Assad didn't pander to Israel and abandon Iran and Hezbollah, there would've been a war in Syria, with a similar outcome. Like or hate Assad, this war has very little to do with him, its got everything to do with America and Israel not being able to tolerate a counterforce to them in the region. Assad can leave tomorrow and be replaced by the most democratic president the world has ever seen, so long as he didn't abandon Iran, Russia and Hezbollah and didn't submit to Israel like a slave, like some of the Gulf States have done, there would still be a problem. 

You have no proof of this and no way of knowing it.  There is no doubt some very bad actors co-opted the uprising against Assad. But, to claim the Syrian people had no issues with the dynastic, autocratic rule of the al-Assad family is absurd.  And, to declare their struggle for something better as just a manipulation is quite treacherous on your part.

Bashar al-Assad would not be in power now without the assistance received from Hezbollah and Iran.  And, this assistance will destabilize the Middle East for decades to come.

By the way, are you sure you are not a native English speaker?  I think you mentioned you are from Tanzania.  So I assumed English is not your first language.  But, your English is better than most native speakers.

All the Best,

David

[Mohamed1993]

1 hour ago, David66 said:

But, to claim the Syrian people had no issues with the dynastic, autocratic rule of the al-Assad family is absurd

They may have had issues, but there's plenty of authoritarian governments in the region where similar protests broke out with brutal suppression and this suppression was supported the West like in Bahrain and in Saudi Arabia. The opposition had no foreign backing in these places and though the suppression was immoral, the countries are still stable and haven't seen the destruction Syria has seen. Assad didn't have a perfect government, no country does. Though he was a dictator, he wasn't all bad either, he did do some good and he did still have support from many Syrians. So maybe all we would've seen was a period of violent suppression and then relative stability. Wouldn't have been ideal but better than what it is today. Ask the Bahrainis if they'd prefer to be in the situation Syrians are in or to theirs, the answer would be pretty obvious.

1 hour ago, David66 said:

Bashar al-Assad would not be in power now without the assistance received from Hezbollah and Iran.  And, this assistance will destabilize the Middle East for decades to come.

Yeah and without the backing of Gulf States, NATO and behind the scenes, Israel, the opposition forces would not have gained nearly as much ground. The middle east was already destabilized by invasions of Iraq and Libya, and I don't see it getting better anytime soon. 

[David66]

 Hello,

16 minutes ago, Al Hadi said:

No need too my point was it's ridiculously obvious. If you can't see that I don't know if I can help you. 

Maybe you should rejoin the thread once you can contribute to the topic. 

 

13 minutes ago, Mohamed1993 said:

They may have had issues, but there's plenty of authoritarian governments in the region where similar protests broke out with brutal suppression and this suppression was supported the West like in Bahrain and in Saudi Arabia. The opposition had no foreign backing in these places and though the suppression was immoral, the countries are still stable and haven't seen the destruction Syria has seen. Assad didn't have a perfect government, no country does. Though he was a dictator, he wasn't all bad either, he did do some good and he did still have support from many Syrians. So maybe all we would've seen was a period of violent suppression and then relative stability. Wouldn't have been ideal but better than what it is today. Ask the Bahrainis if they'd prefer to be in the situation Syrians are in or to theirs, the answer would be pretty obvious.

 

This is true.  The United States can not support the Shia majority in Bahrain because such support would increase Iran's control of the Persian Gulf.  What we have to understand is the Middle East is in a "Cold War."  Saudi Arabia and Iran are maneuvering for control and both will use whatever leverage they have to enhance their cause.  I think both governments are weak and not well thought of by the majority of their citizens.  But, they play the Sunni versus Shia card to the hilt and when all else fails the "evil Jew" card. 

In my opinion, the theocratic rule in Iran will fail along with the dynastic rule in Syria, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf States.  It is just a matter of when.  Once a person taste freedom it is what they crave.

All the Best,

David

[Mohamed1993]

24 minutes ago, David66 said:

 Hello,

Maybe you should rejoin the thread once you can contribute to the topic. 

 

This is true.  The United States can not support the Shia majority in Bahrain because such support would increase Iran's control of the Persian Gulf.  What we have to understand is the Middle East is in a "Cold War."  Saudi Arabia and Iran are maneuvering for control and both will use whatever leverage they have to enhance their cause.  I think both governments are weak and not well thought of by the majority of their citizens.  But, they play the Sunni versus Shia card to the hilt and when all else fails the "evil Jew" card. 

In my opinion, the theocratic rule in Iran will fail along with the dynastic rule in Syria, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf States.  It is just a matter of when.  Once a person taste freedom it is what they crave.

All the Best,

David

Its not playing a card David and again the conflating of Israel with jews is a classic tool to bring up anti-semitism when it has nothing to do with religion, its to do with political zionism, which is no doubt influencing the region. The war in Syria has a lot to do with Israel, even American politicians say this. And you're pretending Israel is not a part of these conflicts, its been targeting Syrian Army positions constantly, and it called for US intervention in Iraq, promising it would lead fruitful outcomes, look at what happened, it tried everything it could to stop US nuclear deal with Iran, which would've dragged the US into a war with Iran. There were Israeli lobbyists calling for false flags to launch a war with Iran. Israel doesn't get involved directly as much but they don't have to, they get America to do their bidding for them, to ensure that there is ZERO resistance to whatever they want to do. Let's not forget Israel launched 3 pre-emptive wars (if you define a pre-emptive war as one where you launch the first strike), in 1956, 1967 and 1982, and if you take into account proportionality of response, then the 2006 war with Lebanon and the 2009 and 2014 wars with Gaza were also decisions Israel took. 

Speaking of freedom, at least all the people Iran controls can vote, and the elections contrary to Western opinion do mean something, because you'd have never gotten the nuclear deal under Ahmadinejad, let's be real. Not all the people living under Israeli control have that freedom, yet we paint it as the only democracy in the region in the west. In my opinion Israel cannot sustain the level of control it does over 6 million Palestinians without giving them the right to vote in Israeli elections and continuing to suppress any dissent of its policies as its currently doing with banning people who support boycotting it. The Palestinians want freedom, Israelis can't deny them forever. I want freedom to know that the NSA is not reading this message or tracking what I say on the phone when I speak, alas! Can't have that. Maybe the rule in America will fail too. And speaking of well thought of governments, this doesn't seem to give a good picture of America either; https://www.rt.com/usa/380198-trump-democrats-media-poll/. 

Edited March 22, 2017 by Mohamed1993

[andres]

 USA's involvement in the Syrian civil war is nothing in comparison with that of Russia and Iran. This is, and should be, embarrasing to those Shias that admire the corrupt Iranian dictators.

[Sumerian]

@David66 maybe some WikiLeaks documents will prove this entire uprising was a set-up?

[Mohamed1993]

3 hours ago, andres said:

 USA's involvement in the Syrian civil war is nothing in comparison with that of Russia and Iran. This is, and should be, embarrasing to those Shias that admire the corrupt Iranian dictators.

Yeah I suppose Iran should've just stood there and let Syria become another Iraq and Libya, so Zionist imperialists not the Syrian people can have their way and the holy shrines can be descimated. Look, I don't know whether it's the way you've been trained to think that tells you you can decide for people what they can and can't do, the point remains that you're not Syrian, and I understand you don't like the government in Syria, but most people in Syria live in government held areas and for the purposes of this war, most Syrians support Assad against the opposition. There are Western backed polls that state this.

I know it's hard to fathom when you've been programmed to think you know what's best for everyone, but actually you don't, nor is it any of your business who runs Syria. I'm not really going to waste my time arguing any further with you, but I will tell you we'll proudly stand against defending our holy shrines against Zionist/Wahhabi backed mercenaries. They descimated shrines in Raqaa and in the outskirts of Damascus, yet some still think the problem is solely that the rebels just don't like Assad. That's why they are fighting in Syria. SMH! I'm done here. I'm not about to start having another discussion with you about Syria, I've spoken enough about this. Believe what you want to believe, ultimately only Syrian opinion counts. 

[Mohamed1993]

Something someone sent me years back when Damascus was about to fall for those with enough vision to comprehend the complexities of the war;

These are scary days for the ummah.  If the shrine of Zainab in Damascus falls, it will result in a full Shia-Sunni conflict.  The Shias know this, which is why they're fortifying the area, and so do the rebels, which is why they're pushing so hard to attack it.  It's not like destroying the shrine is a direct attack to the Assad regime (who they claim to be the main enemy).  It is the fact that an attack resulting in an all out Shia-Sunni conflict serves the purposes of their financial backers.  One question we need to keep asking is, "Who is the puppet and who is the puppet master"?
 

Edited March 22, 2017 by Mohamed1993

[andres]

3 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

Yeah I suppose Iran should've just stood there and let Syria become another Iraq and Libya........

.......nor is it any of your business who runs Syria. 

The Russian/Iranian intervention in Syria is no success for the Syrian population.

Only Syrians are entitled to decide who shall represent them. I doubt Iran and Russia are fighting for democratic rights in Syria.

[andres]

Saudi Arabia is not a democrasy. Usa has not wished to go to war in Syria. Russia and Iran have. Not to implement Democrasy, only for their own benefit. Large parts of Syria are now in ruins and millions of Syrians have fled. I am not saying it would be better, had USA intervened. 

 

[repenter-gone4awhile]

1 hour ago, andres said:

Saudi Arabia is not a democrasy. Usa has not wished to go to war in Syria. Russia and Iran have. Not to implement Democrasy, only for their own benefit. Large parts of Syria are now in ruins and millions of Syrians have fled. I am not saying it would be better, had USA intervened. 

 

 

[Al Hadi]

9 hours ago, Hassan- said:

@Al Hadi calm down brother, no need to insult people.

No I'm not sure about that sorry.

[andres]

11 hours ago, repenter said:

 

An odd reply. I could interpret the illustration as if you would like to argue against me, but could not find any arguments. Since I do not expect you to admit this, it is more likely that you are trying to ridicule my argument. I can understand your reaction, and so I am not insulted.

[repenter-gone4awhile]

2 hours ago, andres said:

An odd reply. I could interpret the illustration as if you would like to argue against me, but could not find any arguments. Since I do not expect you to admit this, it is more likely that you are trying to ridicule my argument. I can understand your reaction, and so I am not insulted.

Sure if that makes you feel better. I usually have a hard time finding arguments against comments that are based on made up "facts". So you are right  i can't find any arguments...hence the pic.

[andres]

I wrote

1) Saudi Arabia is not a democrasy.

2) Usa has not wished to go to war in Syria.

3) Russia and Iran have gone to war in Syria

4) Large parts of Syria are now in ruins and millions of Syrians have fled.

5) Had USA intervened, the situation in Syria had not have been any better

I think a better explanation to you lacking arguments against me is that you actually agree on all 5 points. The first 4 are facts. The 5th fall into another category.

 

[repenter-gone4awhile]

On 3/23/2017 at 0:25 PM, andres said:

I wrote

1) Saudi Arabia is not a democrasy.

2) Usa has not wished to go to war in Syria.

3) Russia and Iran have gone to war in Syria

4) Large parts of Syria are now in ruins and millions of Syrians have fled.

5) Had USA intervened, the situation in Syria had not have been any better

I think a better explanation to you lacking arguments against me is that you actually agree on all 5 points. The first 4 are facts. The 5th fall into another category.

Conveniently skipped this part:

"Russia and Iran have. Not to implement Democrasy, only for their own benefit"

I have enough experience to smell who makes up fun facts and who doesn't. 

[andres]

21 minutes ago, repenter said:

Conveniently skipped this part:

"Russia and Iran have. Not to implement Democrasy, only for their own benefit"

I have enough experience to smell who makes up fun facts and who doesn't. 

What I initially wrote is no secret. However in your last posts you were only questioning my "facts". I still claim we agree on the "facts", and this being the reason for you lacking arguments agains them

I am certain that you agree with me that the 4 first poins I mention, are in fact "facts". 

I am even certain you agree with point 5, even if it is not a "fact". It is an estimate. 

An estimate was also the claim that I "convenientely skipped", and where you and I actually may have different opinions. This is OK, but now that you brought it up again, I must ask if you really believe that Iran, a Shia-Islamic republic, wish to fight for democrasy in a nation where Sunnies are the great majorit? 

[repenter-gone4awhile]

8 minutes ago, andres said:

What I initially wrote is no secret. However in your last posts you were only questioning my "facts". I still claim we agree on the "facts", and this being the reason for you lacking arguments agains them

I am certain that you agree with me that the 4 first poins I mention, are in fact "facts". 

I am even certain you agree with point 5, even if it is not a "fact". It is an estimate. 

An estimate was also the claim that I "convenientely skipped", and where you and I actually may have different opinions. This is OK, but now that you brought it up again, I must ask if you really believe that Iran, a Shia-Islamic republic, wish to fight for democrasy in a nation where Sunnies are the great majorit? 

Yeah because they have said, including nasrallah, that they agree that a reform must be done in terma of Asad and the presidency. But not by terrorists being funded by US/Israel and Saudi. US doeant want to get into Syria because it has it's puppets there.

Iran also helped Bosnia and Palestine, they are sunni too, so that theory goes down the drain fast. 

[power]

On 3/22/2017 at 3:37 AM, andres said:

 USA's involvement in the Syrian civil war is nothing in comparison with that of Russia and Iran. This is, and should be, embarrasing to those Shias that admire the corrupt Iranian dictators.

BBC Investigation Exposes Western Aid To Syrian Rebels As ‘Wal-Mart’ For Extremists

http://www.mintpressnews.com/bbc-investigation-exposes-western-aid-to-syrian-rebels-as-wal-mart-for-extremists/213992/

Americans are in comparison to Russia are far worse than the Russians, Russians are only cleaning up the mess that Americans had  created!! 

[andres]

1 hour ago, repenter said:

Yeah because they have said, including nasrallah, that they agree that a reform must be done in terma of Asad and the presidency. But not by terrorists being funded by US/Israel and Saudi. US doeant want to get into Syria because it has it's puppets there.

Iran also helped Bosnia and Palestine, they are sunni too, so that theory goes down the drain fast. 

 I am by now very certain we agree on the facts I mentioned, it only pussles me you obviously do not wish to confirm or deny this. Well.... I cant force you to

 I do not share your analysis on the situation in Syria above. Mine is that the opinion in USA is against wadting money and Americal lived after many failures trying to solve conflicts in the ME. No nation has interest in funding terrorist groups, but bad political descicions, made by both Muslim and Christian governments, have probably unintentionally triggered the birth of Muslim terrorism. 

[repenter-gone4awhile]

2 minutes ago, andres said:

 I am by now very certain we agree on the facts I mentioned, it only pussles me you obviously do not wish to confirm or deny this. Well.... I cant force you to

 I do not share your analysis on the situation in Syria above. Mine is that the opinion in USA is against wadting money and Americal lived after many failures trying to solve conflicts in the ME. No nation has interest in funding terrorist groups, but bad political descicions, made by both Muslim and Christian governments, have probably unintentionally triggered the birth of Muslim terrorism. 

It puzzles me that you don't understand that you can mention 99 facts that i agree with and you can sneak in 1 that i don't, which you did. Plus i think you are naive that after all the evidence, starting with Al Qaida being funded by the CIA all the way up to ISIS, Saudi friendship with US, millions upon millions spent of false flags and velvet revolutions, you still seem to live in what some call lala land. Either that, or you choose to ignore this fact and are just being stubborn in accepting it. 

Have you ever been to the military? It took us 6 months to get trained in certain equipment, yet, somehow, ISIS started off with fresh unopened American equipment, that they somehow knew how to use. Fresh medicine, fresh bullets, fresh guns and bombs, intel about everything they needed, seriously professional video editing, cars, Humvees, mortars. You can't be that naive, so i choose to believe that you are turning your back to these facts and don't want to accept it. 

But hey, you are entitled to you opinion. 

[Al Hadi]

32 minutes ago, repenter said:

It puzzles me that you don't understand that you can mention 99 facts that i agree with and you can sneak in 1 that i don't, which you did. Plus i think you are naive that after all the evidence, starting with Al Qaida being funded by the CIA all the way up to ISIS, Saudi friendship with US, millions upon millions spent of false flags and velvet revolutions, you still seem to live in what some call lala land. Either that, or you choose to ignore this fact and are just being stubborn in accepting it. 

Have you ever been to the military? It took us 6 months to get trained in certain equipment, yet, somehow, ISIS started off with fresh unopened American equipment, that they somehow knew how to use. Fresh medicine, fresh bullets, fresh guns and bombs, intel about everything they needed, seriously professional video editing, cars, Humvees, mortars. You can't be that naive, so i choose to believe that you are turning your back to these facts and don't want to accept it. 

But hey, you are entitled to you opinion. 

You have been to the military man so even behind your profile picture your tough nice.

[repenter-gone4awhile]

16 minutes ago, Al Hadi said:

You have been to the military man so even behind your profile picture your tough nice.

huh?

[humanbeing101]

1 hour ago, repenter said:

It puzzles me that you don't understand that you can mention 99 facts that i agree with and you can sneak in 1 that i don't, which you did. Plus i think you are naive that after all the evidence, starting with Al Qaida being funded by the CIA all the way up to ISIS, Saudi friendship with US, millions upon millions spent of false flags and velvet revolutions, you still seem to live in what some call lala land. Either that, or you choose to ignore this fact and are just being stubborn in accepting it. 

Have you ever been to the military? It took us 6 months to get trained in certain equipment, yet, somehow, ISIS started off with fresh unopened American equipment, that they somehow knew how to use. Fresh medicine, fresh bullets, fresh guns and bombs, intel about everything they needed, seriously professional video editing, cars, Humvees, mortars. You can't be that naive, so i choose to believe that you are turning your back to these facts and don't want to accept it. 

But hey, you are entitled to you opinion. 

I do agree with you, though another pluasible explanation is that ISIS commanders for the most part were ex-Baathis who already had military training. Though knowing how to use an M16 or even other such similar equipment wouldn't be hard to learn. 

[Al Hadi]

4 hours ago, repenter said:

Have you ever been to the military? It took us 6 months to get trained in certain equipment, yet, somehow, ISIS started off with fresh unopened American equipment, that they somehow knew how to use. 

It sounded like you were talking about yourself here. 

 

3 hours ago, repenter said:

huh?

I guess you didn't join the millitary then. My bad.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Al Hadi

[repenter-gone4awhile]

8 hours ago, humanbeing101 said:

I do agree with you, though another pluasible explanation is that ISIS commanders for the most part were ex-Baathis who already had military training. Though knowing how to use an M16 or even other such similar equipment wouldn't be hard to learn. 

Thats a myth bro. Very few of them were ex baathi. And it didn't start in Iraq. This started in Syria. And even if commanders were ex military it still takes 6 months to get properly trained.