Why did the shia ignore ismael ibn jaafar

[uufzni]

Salam,

I really can't understand why did the twelver ignore ismael ibn jaafar, most of twelver say jaafar as sidiq choose Musa kadhim ... Ok? so how about this :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_al-Aftah          ( if musa kadhim was choosen why the majority went to abdullah al aftah ? )

Also let's say there is  a king , who have 2 sons, the eldest died before his father BUT he had a son.   So who will be the next king? in 95% it's the son of the eldest son, not the little brother.

[baqar]

3 hours ago, uufzni said:

not the little brother.

May be.

But according to our historical data, Imam Jafar Sadiq (as) appointed the little brother as the next Imam.

[Sindbad05]

On 3/12/2017 at 10:35 PM, uufzni said:

Salam,

I really can't understand why did the twelver ignore ismael ibn jaafar, most of twelver say jaafar as sidiq choose Musa kadhim ... Ok? so how about this :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_al-Aftah          ( if musa kadhim was choosen why the majority went to abdullah al aftah ? )

Also let's say there is  a king , who have 2 sons, the eldest died before his father BUT he had a son.   So who will be the next king? in 95% it's the son of the eldest son, not the little brother.

It is not worldly kindgom, it is divine position, Like Imam Ali a.s was young among his brothers but was chosen as Imam, Imam Musa al Kadhim was chosen as Imam and not his elder brother. Although we do respect Hazrat Ismaeil Ibn Jafar but he did not announced himself to be the Imam. 

[DigitalUmmah]

Hazrat Ismail (as) was free of the corruption which occured in his name. his funeral was presided over by his Father Imam Ja'afar Sadiq (as) himself, and the Imam (as) was very upset at his janaza, and wrote a testimony that Ismail was a servant of Allah on hazrat Ismails kaffan. 

we do not ignore him, he is not deemed a deviant in our madhab, he is not counted amongst the hypocrites in our belief. 

the divine step where an Imam passes the status of the Imam e Zamana to his successor was clearly passed from Imam Ja'afar Sadiq (as) to Imam Musa Kadhim (as). those who later became Ismaili are basically second guessing Imam Jafar Sadiq (as). that they know better than him as to who Allah wants to be the correct Imam of the time. it is an insult to Imam Jafar Sadiq (as).  

[uufzni]

On 3/13/2017 at 1:40 AM, baqar said:

May be.

But according to our historical data, Imam Jafar Sadiq (as) appointed the little brother as the next Imam.

Are you sure?

how can you explain :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_al-Aftah          ( if musa kadhim was choosen why the majority went to abdullah al aftah ? )

[uufzni]

If musa kadhin was the right choose imam, why the majority went to  Abdullah al-Aftah     ? then we they saw he can not have kids (sterile) then went to musa kadhim.

[DigitalUmmah]

On 3/13/2017 at 9:45 PM, uufzni said:

If musa kadhin was the right choose imam, why the majority went to  Abdullah al-Aftah     ? then we they saw he can not have kids (sterile) then went to musa kadhim.

number of people following someone is no indication at all of the rightness of the path. how many bani israil people started worshipping the golden calf, and how many stayed on the path taught by hazrat musa (as)? does this mean that the golden calf was the rightful religion because most people followed it? 

[Sindbad05]

On 3/13/2017 at 9:45 PM, uufzni said:

If musa kadhin was the right choose imam, why the majority went to  Abdullah al-Aftah     ? then we they saw he can not have kids (sterile) then went to musa kadhim.

Why majority choose Abu Bakar to Ali and Why majority forsake Jesus and preferred their Rabbis ? 

[A true Sunni]

Since imammate is a divinely appointed it does not automatically flow from father to oldest son.

To those that disagree look at the first 3 Imams

Imammate went from father to oldest son to second oldest son. 

[Guest Nizariismailiyya]

Hassan is a imam encomended (mustawda) and husain (عليه السلام) is the real imam (mustaqar)

[Quran313]

On 3/12/2017 at 7:35 PM, uufzni said:

Salam,

I really can't understand why did the twelver ignore ismael ibn jaafar, most of twelver say jaafar as sidiq choose Musa kadhim ... Ok? so how about this :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_al-Aftah          ( if musa kadhim was choosen why the majority went to abdullah al aftah ? )

Also let's say there is  a king , who have 2 sons, the eldest died before his father BUT he had a son.   So who will be the next king? in 95% it's the son of the eldest son, not the little brother.

Age does not have anything to do with being Imam. Imam Jawad and prophet Jesus are the examples. An Imam can say whos the next Imam and he gets this info from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). True followers of Ahlulbait cannot force Imam to change Allah decision on who can be Imam. One of the reasons people put Ali Ibn Abi Talib aside and did allegiance with Abubakr was because Ali is young but Abubakr is old enough.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Quran313

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 3/12/2017 at 9:35 PM, uufzni said:

Salam,

I really can't understand why did the twelver ignore ismael ibn jaafar, most of twelver say jaafar as sidiq choose Musa kadhim ... Ok? so how about this :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_al-Aftah          ( if musa kadhim was choosen why the majority went to abdullah al aftah ? )

Also let's say there is  a king , who have 2 sons, the eldest died before his father BUT he had a son.   So who will be the next king? in 95% it's the son of the eldest son, not the little brother.

Salam

ʿAbd Allah b. Jaʿfar (Arabic: عبدالله بن جعفر); (d. 149/766) known as ʿAbd Allah al-Afṭaḥ (عبدالله الافطَح) was the second son of Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq (a) who claimed imamate after the martyrdom of Imam al-Sadiq (a) and his followers became famous as Fatahiyya.

Quote

Fatahiyya

Main article: Fatahiyya

When Abd Allah claimed imamate, some Shia followed him and were known as Fatahiyya.^[12] At the time of Imam al-Sadiq (a), Shias commonly said that the eldest son reaches the position of imamate. Accordingly, some who did not hear about Imam al-Sadiq's (a) declaration of Imam al-Kazim's imamate followed Abd Allah, who was the elder brother and had claimed imamate. When he died 70 days after the martyrdom of Imam al-Sadiq (a), the rest of his followers returned to Imam al-Kazim (a).^[13]

 

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Authenticity of Narrations by Bani Fazzal Family from Viewpoint of Ayatollah Khamenei

 

Document Type : Original Article

Author

• Seyed Naser Mousavi Zanjani

Seminary Student (Level 4)

Abstract

One of the authentic sources of narrations in the science of Rejal is the citation of Bani Fazzal in a source of a narration. Bani Fazzal family was Fathit– who believed Abdullah al-Aftah was the succeeding Imam after his father Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq's martyrdom. Ayatollah Khamenei opposes this view that Bani Fazzal family belonged to Fathites. From Ayatollah Khamenei’s point of view, he was Hassan ibn Ali ibn Fazzal who was not a Fathit and was mistakenly considered as Fathit because he used to live among them. Furthermore, many of those who believed that Abdullah al-Aftah was the succeeding Imam, he, after his death, turned to Imam Musa ibn Ja’far and accepted his Imamat and Wilayat; therefore, their narrations are both reliable and Sahih.

https://www.pajoohname.ir/article_159471.html?lang=en

Claiming Imamate

Upon the martyrdom of Imam al-Sadiq (a), Abd Allah was his eldest son. With this justification that imamate reaches the eldest son of Imam, claimed imamate and soon some Shia followed him. It is narrated that before his martyrdom, Imam al-Sadiq (a) foresaw about claiming imamate by Abd Allah and advised Imam al-Kazim (a) to leave Abd Allah because he would die soon afterwards.^[8]

His Incompetence in answering Questions of the Companions

It is mentioned that Shia and companions of Imam al-Sadiq (a) asked Abd Allah some questions to ensure about his claim, but he could not give proper answers, and thus many Shia left him. These questions have been mentioned in different sources, for example, Some Shia from Khurasan came to Medina after the martyrdom of Imam al-Sadiq (a) and asked some questions from Abd Allah, but he could not answer them.^[9]

Hisham b. Salim and Mu'min al-Taq asked him about Zakat of 100 Dirhams. He answered two dirhams.^[10] It is reported that he was asked, "if someone tells his wife, without having a witness, 'I have divorced from you by as many times as the number of stars in the sky', would it be correct?" He answered, "the divorce is correct."^[11]

 

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According to al-Shaykh al-Mufid, Abd Allah's position before his father was not like his other brothers because he was against his father in beliefs. He also associated with Hashwiyya and tended toward Murji'a.^[4]

Abd Allah had no children,^[5] but in some Isma'ili and other sources,^[6] it has been said that instead of Isma'il, Fatimid caliphs introduced his brother, Abd Allah Aftah as their imam and their ancestor, but later changed their manner and introduced Isma'il as their imam.

Abd Allah died 70 days after the martyrdom of Imam al-Sadiq (a).^[7]

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Abd_Allah_al-Aftah

[NizariIsmaili.]

lsmail (عليه السلام) imamat proofs:

 

Imam Ja‘far [Abu ‘Abdullah] was reprimanding and admonishing ‘Abdullah [his son], saying: ‘Why can’t you be more like your brother?’ By God, I recognize the Light (al-nur) in his face.’ ‘Abdullah said: ‘Aren’t my father and his father the same? Aren’t my mother and his mother the same?’ Then Imam Ja‘far [Abu ‘Abdullah] said: ‘Verily, Isma‘il is from my own soul (nafsi) while you are my son.’

 

‘Ali b. Babawayh al-Qummi (d. ca. 328-329/939-941), (al-Imāma wa l-tabṣīra, Madrasa Imam al-Mahdi, Qum 1404/1984, 73 / Mu’assasa Aal al-Bayt, Beirut 1407/1987, 210, Hadith No. 63;

 

Image Note: This image is from the 1987 published edition of al-Imāma wa l-tabṣīra edited by the Twelver scholar Sayyid Muhammad Rida al-Husayni al-Jalali published in Beirut, p. 210, where the Hadith correctly reads “Verily, Isma‘il is from my own soul”. However, in the 1984 edition of al-Imāma wa l-tabṣīra published in Qum [read the Arabic text online], the Editor arbitrarily REMOVED the name of Isma‘il from the published text, but he admits in Footnote #7 that the “Asl” (the 2 primary manuscripts) of this Hadith compilation DO say “Inna Isma‘il” instead of “Innahu”;

 

Note: The Twelver Shi’i hadith compiler al-Kulayni (d. 941) quoted the above hadith with the same chain as Ibn Babawayh al-Qummi in his Usul al-Kafi (ed. ‘Ali Akbar al-Ghifari, 5th edition, 1984, Vol. 1, 310, Hadith No. 10). But Kulayni removed the name of Imam Isma‘il b. Ja‘far from the original hadith and instead presented the hadith as evidence for Musa al-Kazim’s Imamat.Read the Arabic Text of al-Kulayni’s doctored version of the narration.

 

Reception History of Third Twelver Report: The Twelver hadith scholars including al-Kulayni have always quoted this same report (without the name of Isma‘il) as clear evidence for the explicit appointment (nass) of Musa al-Kazim to the Imamat; see: al-Kulayni, Usul al-Kafi, Kitab al-Hujja, Ch. 71, No. 10; Shaykh al-Mufid (338-413/948-1022),Kitab al-Irshad, Vol. 2, 209; Shaykh al-Tabarsi (d. 548/1153), I‘lam al-wara bi-A‘lam al-huda, Vol. 2, 13; Muhammad Salih al-Mazandarani (d. 1081/1671), Sharh Usul al-Kafi, Vol. 7, 179-180; ‘Allamah al-Majlisi (1037-1110/1628-1699), Mirat al-‘Uqul, Vol. 3, 336. Both al-Mazandarani and al-Majlisi argue that the specific words used by the Imam for his son – “he is from my soul (min nafsi)” – are an explicit designation (nass) of the Imamat:

 

[The Imam’s] saying: “he is from my soul (innahu min nafsi) while you are my son” means “you are related to me by bodily lineage while he is related to me both bodily and spiritual lineage such that his soul is like my soul, his knowledge is like my knowledge, his character is like my character, his action is like my action” extending to the other attributes of perfection without any disparity… His saying “I see the Light within his face” and “he is from my soul” is a clear indication that he is the locus of the Imamat to the exclusion of others.

 

Muhammad Salih al-Mazandarani (d. 1081/1671), (Sharh Usul al-Kafi, Vol. 6, 179-180)

 

“He is from my own soul” means “from my substance and within him is my character and my character is my inclination.” This expression unrestrictedly conveys the complete unification in perfections, virtues, and degrees of rank, and the apex of distinguishment just as the Prophet said: “‘Ali is from me and I am from ‘Ali.” The upshot is that “your relation is by bodily lineage and his relation is through bodily, spiritual and intellectual connection together. Since he was of this station from me, then he is more deserving of the Imamate than the rest of the children.” Thus, it is an explicit designation () for his Imamat.

 

‘Allamah al-Majlisi (1037-1110/1628-1699),(Mirat al-‘Uqul, Vol. 3, 336)

 

Fourth Twelver Report: ‘Ali al-Rida [7th Twelver Imam], as quoted in Muhammad b. ‘Umar al-Kashshi (d. ca. 340/951) in his Rijal al-Kashshi, p. 772 (Read the Arabic Text) reports how after the death of Musa al-Kazim, his son ‘Ali al-Rida debated with some people and explained to them that the Shi‘i followers of Imam Ja‘far al-Sadiq differed over the question of his successor. In his response to some questions, ‘Ali al-Rida admitted that Isma‘il had been designated by Imam Ja‘far as his successor and that Isma‘il was the Imam during his lifetime:

 

He [al-Rida] said: “They did not use to agree about him [Musa al-Kadim]. How could they agree about him when your leaders and elders used to say about Isma‘il – even while they saw him drink so-and-so – they were still saying ‘this one more suitable’. They said: “He [Ja‘far al-Sadiq] did not enter Isma‘il in the testament.” He [al-Rida] said: “He [Ja‘far al-Sadiq] had entered him in the Book of Sadaqa while he was an Imam.”

 

Fifth Twelver Report: ‘Ali al-Hadi [10th Twelver Imam], as related by Sa‘d ibn ‘Abdullah al-Qummi in Shaykh al-Tusi, Kitab al-Ghaybah, confirms the appointment of Isma‘il. The tenth Imam of the Twelver Shi‘ah, Abu al-Hasan ‘Ali al-Hadi, designated his eldest son Abu Ja‘far Muhammad as his successor but Abu Ja‘far Muhammad died within his lifetime. After his death, ‘Ali al-Hadi designated another son, Abu Muhammad Hasan al-‘Askari, and referred back to the Imam Ja‘far’s designation of Isma‘il ibn Ja‘far to justify his decision – directly confirming that Imam Ja‘far designated and appointed Isma‘il as the next Imam. The hadith report in Tusi’s book meets the highest standards of Twelver rijal certification: al-Tusi quotes this report in two places on the authority of Sa‘d ibn ‘Abdullah al-Qummi (one of the earliest and most reputable Imami scholars), who narrates the report from Abu Hashim Dawud al-Ja‘fari – the most trusted companion of two Twelver Imams – al-Hadi and al-‘Askari – and who has a spotless reputation in Twelver sources. Tusi’s source for this report was a lost work of Sa‘d ibn ‘Abdullah al-Qummi titled “al-Diya’ fi l-radd ‘ala al-Muhammadiyya wa al-Ja’fariyya” (Read More).

 

Sa‘d ibn ‘Abdullah al-Qummi narrated from Abu Hashim Dawud al-Ja‘fari narrated: I was with Abu l-Hasan (‘Ali al-Hadi) at the time of the death of his son Abu Ja ‘far (Muhammad b. ‘Ali) – whom he had appointed and designated (wa-qad kana ashara ilayhi wa-dalla ‘alayhi). So then I thought to myself saying: “This is the story of Abu Ibrahim (Musa al-Kazim) and Isma‘il. Abu l-Hasan (‘Ali al-Hadi) came to me and said: “Yes O Abu Hashim, a new matter (bada) appeared to God concerning Abu Ja‘far [Muhammad b. ‘Ali] and He replaced him with Abu Muhammad [Hasan al-‘Askari], just as a new matter appeared to God (bada’a lillahi) concerning Isma‘il after Abu ‘Abdullah (Ja‘far al-Sadiq) designated him (dalla ‘alayhi) and appointed him (nasabahu).

 

Shaykh al-Tusi, (Kitab al-Ghaybah, Part 1, 106, Hadith No. 84, Read the Arabic Text; 22, Hadith No. 167; Read the Arabic Text)

 

Narrated by Abu Hashim al-Ja‘fari: I was with Abu l-Hasan after his son Abu Ja‘far [Muhammad b. ‘Ali] passed away and I thought within myself to say: “These two, meaning Abu Ja‘far and Abu Muhammad in this time are similar to Abu l-Hasan Musa and Isma‘il son of Ja‘far b. Muhammad. Verily, the two of those two is like the story of these two. Because Abu Muhammad came after Abu Ja‘far.” Then Abu l-Hasan turned to me before I spoke and said: “Yes, O Abu Hashim. A new affair appeared to God (bada’a lillahi) regarding Abu Muhammad after Abu Ja‘far which was not known to Him (ma lam yakun yu’rafu lahu) similar to what appeared to Him (kama bada’a lahu) in/regarding Musa after the passing of Isma‘il by which his condition was unveiled. It is like what your soul narrated to you even though the falsifiers dislike it: Abu Muhammad will be my successor.”

 

(Narrated by Abu Hashim al-Ja‘fari, in al-Kulayni, Usul al-Kafi, Kitab al-Hujja, Chapter 75, Hadith No. 10; Read the Arabic Text)

 

The above hadith in Twelver books shows that even during the lifetime of the tenth Twelver Imam, the Twelver community – irrespective of the questionable idea of badā’ [to be dealt with below] – had expected that Isma‘il was going to be the Imam succeeding Imam Ja‘far al-Sadiq. The fact that the case of Isma‘il was cited by the tenth Twelver Imam to justify his own second designation after the death of his first appointed successor, confirms the Twelver Imams knew Isma‘il was the designated successor for the Imamat. A contemporary Twelver scholar John Andaluso has closely analyzed the above reports about the so-called Bada’ comparing the designations of Isma‘il b. Ja‘far and Muhammad b. ‘Ali and likewise argues that they prove the historicity of the appointment of Isma‘il here.

 

Sixth Twelver Report: al-Khasibi (d. 346/957) in his famous work al-Hidaya al-KubraRead the Arabic Text reports a narration from two of his teachers that Imam Ja‘far al-Sadiq made Isma‘il his Inheritor (wasi) and proclaimed him as the Imam after him. Al-Khasibi’s family was very close to the 11th Twelver imam Hasan al-‘Askari and he was a contemporary of al-Kulayni (d. 941). Al-Khasibi’s Hidaya is a revered text in the Nusaryi-Alawi tradition and al-Majlisi quotes many hadith from him: “al-Khasibi appears in Shi‘i literature as an important transmitter of traditions. Shi‘i traditions on his authority were recorded in the voluminous canonical Bihar al-anwar composed by Muhammad Baqir al-Majlisi (d. 1267/1700)… Al-Khasibi’s Kitab al-Hidaya (see Appendix 1) is mentioned in the list of books ‘around which the millstones of the Shi‘a turn” and “there is no Shi‘i household from which they are absent” (Yaron Friedman, The Nusayri-‘Alawi; Leiden: Brill, 2010, 28). Al-Khasibi reported Isma‘il’s appointment as Imam as follows:

 

al-Husayn b. Hamdan (al-Khasibi) narrates: I said to al-Husayn b. Thawaba and to Abu ‘Abdullah al-Shaykh who descended upon him: “Both of you narrated to me this narration. If someone else narrates to me, then I leave your narration and accept that one, but I have an argument that I say.” They both said: “Bring what you have. Then I said to them: “This is what al-Maymuna said: Abu ‘Abdullah al-Sadiq made a testament of succession (awsa) to his son Isma‘il and told about him and informed that he is the Imam after him.”

 

Abu ‘Abdullah al-Husayn b. Hamdan al-Khasibi (d. 346/957), al-Hidaya al-Kubra, Beirut: Mu’assasat al-Balagh, 1991, 385)

 

Seventh Twelver Report: Qutb al-Din al-Rawandi (d. 573/1178) in his al-Khara’ij wa l-jara’ih (Read the Arabic Text) reports a narration where a companion of Imam Ja‘far al-Sadiq testifies before the Imam that God has commanded the Imam’s followers to obey his son Isma‘il just as they were required to obey the Imam’s ancestors; in response, Imam Ja‘far confirms his follower’s statement as “sufficient”. This report is also found in Yusuf b. Hatim al-‘Amili’s (d. 664/1265) al-Dar al-Nazim fi Manaqib al-A’imma and al-Majlisi’s Bihar al-Anwar (see full citations/links below). Qutb al-Din al-Rawandi is an extremely honoured and reputable scholar in Twelver Shi’i scholarship: Allama Amini stated al-Rawandi is one of the heads of Shi’a scholars, chosen of the sect, one of the jurisprudence and hadith masters, and an intelligent man in knowledge and literature. No fault is seen in his plenty of works, his honors, his efforts and religious works, his good deeds, and great books. Sayyid Muhammad Baqir Khwansari has praised al-Rawandi as a jurist, a prominent and reliable person having diverse works; ‘Abd Allah b. ‘Isa Afandi said al-Rawandi was a Shaykh, pioneer in jurisprudence, an honorable person, familiar with hadiths and poetry, muhaddith and theologian; Shaykh ‘Abbas Qumi has written that al-Rawandi was a scholar, jurist, muhaddith and researcher. He absolutely is one of the great muhaddiths of Shi’a.

 

Mufaddal b. Marthad said: ‘I said to Abu ‘Abdullah (al-Sadiq): “God has ordained upon us (‘alayna) obedience (al-ta‘a) to your son Isma‘il just as He ordained it to your ancestors.” Isma‘il was alive at that time. Then he said: “That is sufficient (yakfi dhalika).” Thus, I thought that he was ordering prudence (taqiyya) on me. Isma‘il died not long after that.’

 

Qutb al-Din al-Rawandi (d. 573/1178), (al-Khara’ij wa l-jara’ih, Vol. 2. 637, No. 39; see also Yusuf b. Hatim al-‘Amili (d. 664/1265), al-Dar al-Nazim fi Manaqib al-A’imma, 644, Read Here; al-Majlisi, Bihar al-Anwar, Vol. 47, p. 250, No. 21, Read Here)

 

Al-Walid ibn Sabih said: “A man came to me and said, ‘Come, and I will show you where the man is.’ And so I went with him, and he brought to a group of people who were drinking. Isma‘il ibn Ja‘far was amongst them! I fled away in anxiety, and came to the hijr [in the Holy Mosque of Mekkah], and there was Isma‘il ibn Ja‘far, clinging to the Sacred House and weeping, almost flooding the covering of the Ka’bah in tears. And so I went back, stronger this time, and saw Isma‘il sitting with the people. And then I went back again, and there was Isma‘il grabbing the cover of the Ka’bah, covering it with tears. I told Abu ‘Abdullah [as-Sadiq] about this, to which he said: ‘My son is being tormented by a demon which takes his form.’”

 

(Majlisi, Bihar al-Anwar 47:270; Al-Mazandaran, Al-Manaqib 1:267; Al-Saduq, Kamal al-Din 1:70) 

 

The above mentioned hadiths are the proof of the Imamate of Ismail (عليه السلام), since he was seen alive after his death, and he cannot be a demon because when Imam al Baqir and when Musa Kazim died, there were an overwhelming number of people who saw that Imam Al Baqir (عليه السلام) and Musa Kazim had taken the form of a demon. So if they were real imams, how could a demon appear in their form? The conclusion from this is that Ismail (عليه السلام) was alive, furthermore the Khattabiya said that Ismail had not died and then later Ismail was seen alive. Do you really think that a demon would be taking the form of Ismail(عليه السلام) for so long? Another proof is that Imam Ubaidullah Al Mahdi said that he was a descendant of Abdullah the brother of Ismail (عليه السلام) therefore this means that Ismail had called himself Abdullah to protect himself and Abdullah had called himself Ismail. So the one who falsely died was Abdullah and not Ismail and Imam Al Sadiq sent Ismail (عليه السلام) to Salamiyyah Syria. Although Abdullah did not die, Imam Al Sadiq probably removed him from the tomb in the Al Baqi cemetery, because when Imam al Sadiq died, Abdullah claimed imamat. Then Ismail died in Salamiyyah in Syria and his grave is there in Maqam al Imam.

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 10/26/2023 at 4:22 PM, NizariIsmaili. said:

The above mentioned hadiths are the proof of the Imamate of Ismail (عليه السلام), since he was seen alive after his death, and he cannot be a demon because when Imam al Baqir and when Musa Kazim died, there were an overwhelming number of people who saw that Imam Al Baqir (عليه السلام) and Musa Kazim had taken the form of a demon.

Salam you have passed crossed lines about insulting to infallible Imams which your betalant lying is also insulting to previous infallible Imams even prophet Muhammad (pbu) which also your baseless accusation is against holy Quran which cursed Shaitan has announced that he can't has any authority over them even he can't take form of them based on  authentic narrations while you for proving your falsehood have insulted to prophet Muhammad (pbu) & his successors from infallible Imams which rest of your nonsense above your evilish conclusion is misinterpretation of Ismailis from Twelver Hadiths which your conclusion shows that you are under influnce of cursed Shaitan repent before it becomes too late for you . 

) He said, ‘My Lord! As You have consigned me to perversity, I will surely glamorize [evil] for them on the earth, and I will surely pervert them, all (39) except Your dedicated servants among them.’ (40) 

And they have set up a kinship between Him and the jinn, while the jinn certainly know that they will be presented [before Him]. (158) Clear is Allah of whatever they allege [about Him] (159) —[all] except Allah’s exclusive servants. (160)

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/37:160

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 10/26/2023 at 4:22 PM, NizariIsmaili. said:

an overwhelming number of people who saw that Imam Al Baqir (عليه السلام) and Musa Kazim had taken the form of a demon.

This is only a Nasibi accusation from people  which has been  fabricated by  Abbasids by following  pro cursed Umayyads  which according to your  accusation fabrication of Sunnis about fearing Shaitan from second sunni caliph will be true o therefore you have denied IMAMATE OF Commander of believers Imam Ali (عليه السلام) also you have insulted yo prophet Muhammad (pbu) & Allah just for proving your nonsense which has been driven from a baseless Nasibi accusation . 

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 10/26/2023 at 4:22 PM, NizariIsmaili. said:

Musa Kazim had taken the form of a demon.

Imam Musa Kadhim (عليه السلام) even has been highly endorsed by his opponents from Sunnis which at least they have regarded him as a renowned scholar & inheritor of knowledge of his father Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) which in similar fashion he has been regarded as  renowned scholar & pious man & most dedicated servant of Allah which according to their opponents both of them have been deserved Imamate due to their knowledge & being most dedicated servants of Allah which cursed Shaitan has had no authority over them in similar fashion of peophet Muhammad (pbu) while you have no semantic proof for your nonsense except your false misinterpretations . 

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He is regarded by Sunnis as a renowned scholar, and was a contemporary of the Abbasid caliphs Al-Mansur, Al-Hadi, Al-Mahdi and Harun al-Rashid. He was imprisoned several times, finally dying in Baghdad in the Sindi ibn Shahak prison. Ali al-Ridha, the eighth Imām, and Fatemah Masume were among his children.

 

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IMAMATE

Musa al-Kadhim was said to be a gentle and tolerant man. He was called al-Kadhim because he was kind, forgiving and generous toward the people who treated him in a bad manner or were unfriendly towards him.

The Shiite Imams frequently had to deal with persecution, and sometimes resorted to the practice of taqiyya, a form of religious dissimulation, for protection. When Jafar al-Sadiq was poisoned, the Caliph Al-Mansur wanted to end the imamah, and so he wrote to the governor of Medina to behead the person that al-Sadiq had named as his successor in his last testament. 

 

Caliph Harun al-Rashid, an opponent of the Imam, said that al-Kadhim had the qualities of a true Imam, and that he was better suited to inherit the Caliphate from Muhammad than al-Rashid. When his son al-Ma'mun asked him why he magnified the Imam, he said that Musa al-Kadhim was "the Imam of the people, the proof of Allah's mercy to His creation and His caliph among His servants". "I am", Harun said, "outwardly the Imam of the masses by force and through oppression, while Musa ibn Ja'far is the Imam in truth." However, he said that he would not deliver the Caliphate to the Imam: "by Allah, if you yourself attempt to take such caliphate from me, I shall take it away from you even if that means gouging your eyes, for power is blind." He advised his son to get true knowledge from the Imam, saying: "This (Musa al-Kadhim) is the inheritor of the knowledge of the Prophets .... If you desire sound knowledge, you will find it with this." It is interesting to note that afterwards when al-Ma'mun inherited the Caliphate from al-Rashid, he insisted on giving it to Musa al-Kadhim's son, Ali al-Ridha, the eighth Shiite Imam, arguing that he found "no person on the face of earth more learned than this man."

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Division

After the death of al-Kadhim's father, Ja'far al-Sadiq, the sixth Imam the majority of Shiites followed Musa al-Kadhim, while another group followed Isma'il, al-Sadiq's older son .Imam al-Sadiq tried hard to clarify that his son Isma'il will not have been the next Imam after his death because the Shi'a maintain that the infallibility of the Imam is a basic rule in the Imamate. “The theologians have defined the Imamate, saying: "Surely the Imamate is a grace from Allah, Who grants it to the most perfect and best of His servants to Him” This latter group separated afterwards from the majority of Shiites and became known as Ismailis. Smaller groups accepted either Abdullah al-Aftah or Muhammad, other sons of Ja'far al-Sadiq, as the Imam. Finally, another group considered Ja'far al-Sadiq to be the last Imam. After the death of Musa al-Kadhim, the majority followed his son, Ali al-Ridha, while the rest believed that al-Kadhim was the last Imam. This latter group became known as the Waqifiyah.

 

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"An Imam is required to be just and fair; when he says something, he says the truth; when he promises something, he fulfills his promise; when he passes a judgement, he judges equitably.

 

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SELECTED SAYINGS

• "Allah has two proofs over men: outward proof and inward one. As for the outward proof, it is the messengers, the prophets, and the Imams. As for the inward proof, it is reason."
• "Little work from a scholar is doubly accepted; much work from the men of low desire and ignorance is refused."
• "Try hard that your time may be four hours: one hour is for supplicating Allah, one hour for the affairs of the livelihood, one hour for associating with the brothers (friends) and the reliable ones who let you know your defects and who are inwardly loyal to you, and one hour for that you are alone with yourselves (and) for non-forbidden things. Through this hour you have power over the three hours."
• "Tell yourselves of neither poverty nor a long lifetime, for whoever tells himself of poverty becomes miserly. Whoever tells himself of a long lifetime becomes greedy."
• The generous and polite is under the protection of Allah; He does not leave him until He makes him enter the Garden. Allah sends out none as a prophet except the generous.
• "Misfortune is one for the patient and two for the impatient."
• "Silence is among the doors to wisdom; it brings about love and is a proof of all good things."
• "Good neighbor is not refraining from harm, but good neighbor is showing patience toward harm."
• "O Hisham, the Commander of the faithful, peace be on him, has said: 'Allah is not served through a thing better than reason. Man's reason is not perfect unless it has various qualities: unbelief and evil from him are safe. Reason and good from him are hoped. The surplus of his money is spent. The surplus of his speech is prevented. His share of the world is only daily bread. ... Abasement along with Allah is more beloved to him than exaltedness along with other than Him. Humbleness is more beloved to him than high rank. He regards as much the little good from other than him and as little his own good. He sees all men better than him, and that he is the most wicked of them in his soul."
• When Harun al-Rashid, threw him into the dark cells of prisons, he thanked Allah, saying: "O Allah, you know that I used to ask You to give me free time to worship You. O Allah, You have done that. To You be praise."
• "How base is the world for people, unless God give them joy; and how great is this life, if God is not angry with them."

• Sharif al-Qarashi2 2000, p. 160
• Sharif al-Qarashi2 2000, p. 165
• ^ Sharif al-Qarashi2 2000, p. 195
• ^ Sharif al-Qarashi2 2000, p. 187
• Sharif al-Qarashi2 2000, p. 188
• Sharif al-Qarashi2 2000, p. 167
• Sharif al-Qarashi2 2000, p. 120

https://peoplepill.com/i/musa-al-kadhim#:~:text=He is regarded by Sunnis,Masume were among his children

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 10/26/2023 at 4:22 PM, NizariIsmaili. said:

instead presented the hadith as evidence for Musa al-Kazim’s Imamat.Read the Arabic Text of al-Kulayni’s doctored version of the narration.

Fortunately, there are numerous reports substantiating and proving the imamate of the Imam (AS):

Ibn Sabbagh says, 'Abdul A'laa narrates from Faydh bin Mukhtar that he said to Imam Sadiq (AS): "Extend a helping hand to me and save me from the Fire by telling me who the Imam after you is." At the same time Musa bin Ja'far came up while he was still a child. Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) pointed to him and said: "This is your Imam and you should turn to him."[17]

 

[16] Qarashi, Baqir Sharif, Hayat al-Imam Musa bin Ja'far (عليه السلام), vol.1, p. 49, Dar al-Balaghah, Beirut, first edition, 1413 A.H.

[17] Ibid, p.933.

Skeikh Mufid says in this regard, "Musa bin Ja'far (عليه السلام) is the imam after his father. He precedes all other sons of Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) because: 1- He was the most religious of the men of his time, the most knowledgeable in law, the most generous and the noblest in spirit. 2.  There are authentic and reliable traditions which explicitly refer to him. 3. His noble father clearly stated, "He is the successor and imam after me."[18]

[18] al-Irshad fi Ma'refat Hujajillah 'Alal 'ibad, vol.2, p.215; Also, for further information about the texts and reports about the imamate of Imam Musa bin Ja'far, you can see: Kulayni, Muhammad bin Ya'qub, Al-Kaif, researched and corrected, Ghaffari, Ali Akbar, Akhundi, Muhammad, vol. 1, p. 307 – 311, Dar al-Kutub al-Islamiyah, Tehran, fourth edition, 1407 A.H. Sheikh Hurr Ameli, Ithbat al-Hudath bin-Nusus wa al-Mu'jizat, vol.4, p, 216 – 222, A'alami, Beirut, first edition, 1425 A.H.

https://www.islamquest.net/en/blog/403-biography-of-imam-musa-kadhim-as-and-his-children-2

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 10/26/2023 at 4:22 PM, NizariIsmaili. said:

that Imam Al Baqir (عليه السلام) and Musa Kazim had taken the form of a demon.

You probably has wanted to insult Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) but you have insulted to Imam Baqir(عليه السلام)  too  which definitely Imam Baqir (عليه السلام) has been your Imam but you have insulted to your infallible  Imam   due to your ignorance & grudge against his son & his grand son which even opponents of Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) from fair sunni scholars has called him most similar person to prophet Muhammad (pbu) but you who have called yourself a Shia have insulted your Imam which  I challenge you to prove knowledge & infalibilty of Ismail (رضي الله عنه) son of Imam Sadiq(عليه السلام) by bringing at least one reliable narration from Ismail (رضي الله عنه)  himself instead of misinterpretaion of Shia Hadirh & false accusing Shias to censoring him  which prophet Muhammad (pbu) has sent his greeting to Imam Baqir (عليه السلام) through Jabir ibn abdullah Ansari (رضي الله عنه) but you have insulted him which according to you nauzubillah prophet Muhammad (pbu) has taken form of a demon because Imam Baqir (عليه السلام) has been most similar person to prophet Muhammad (pbu) which after him Imam Mahdi (aj) will be most similar person to prophet Muhammad (pbu) 

I replied: “Peace and blessings be upon the Messenger of Allah.” I then asked: “Jabir, what is the story behind this?”
He said: “Once when I was in the presence of Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)), he said to me, ‘O! Jabir, perhaps you will live long enough until you meet a man from my children, whose name is Muhammad, son of Ali, son of Hussain, to whom Allah has granted light and wisdom. So, send my greetings to him’.”

. I personally heard the Prophet saying: ‘O! Jabir, perhaps you will live long enough until you meet a man from my children, whose name and appearance is similar to mine. He will split the knowledge perfectly. So whenever you see him, send my greetings to him.’ So it is the Prophet’s saying, that has given me the impulse to say such words.

https://www.sibtayn.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1750:jabir-al-ansari-r-a-with-imam-baqir-a-s&catid=585&Itemid=663

 

What did the Prophet of Islam ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) say about Imam Baqir (عليه السلام)?

 

 Jabir ibn Abdullah Ansari narrated from the Prophet of Islam ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) who said: The Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) told me: I expect you to remain alive until you meet my child who is a descendant of “(Imam) Hussain (AS)”, and they will call him “Mohammad” (Imam Mohammad Baqir (AS); the fifth Shia Imam). He will break down the knowledge/science in an amazing way. When you see him, send my Salaam to him [1].

[1] Ihqaqul Haqq, Vol. 12, Page 157.

Imam “Baqir” [AS] from the perspective of Sunni {3}

 

“Salah al-Din Safadi”, one of Sunni historians writes about Imam “Baqir” [AS]:

وکان احد من جمع العلم و الفقه و الدیانةو الثقة والسؤدد و کان یصلح للخلافة و هو أحد الأئمةالاثنی عشر الذین یعتقد الرافضة عصمتهم؛...

He was one of those who had knowledge, honesty, reliability and dignity and was competent for caliphate and is one of twelve imams whom Shias believe in their infallibility.

Al-wafi bi-al-wafiyat - vol. 4, p 77

https://www.valiasr-aj.com/english/shownews.php?idnews=546/Imam-“Baqir”-[AS]-from-the-perspective-of-Sunni-{3}

Imam Jafar al-Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) from the Viewpoint of Sunni Scholars

His Imamat

1. Shams al-Deen Zahabi says: Jafar al-Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) – of tremendous stature, from the Imams of knowledge, he was worthier of caliphate than Abu Jafar al-Mansoor al-Dawaniqi…

• Seyar Aalaam al Nobala vol 13 p 120

He also says – Jafar’s ((عليه السلام).) virtues are excessive and he was appropriate for caliphate owing to his seniority, excellence, knowledge and nobility.

• Tarikh al-Islam – Hawadith Wafiyyat from period 141-160 A.H. p 93

1. Abu Zakariyya Muhy al-Deen Sharaf Nawawi (exp. 686 A.H.) writes – They (Muslims) are unanimous about his Imamat, magnificence and leadership.

Umar Ibn Abi al-Miqdam says – Whenever I used to look at Jafar Ibn Muhammad ((عليه السلام).), I was certain that he was from the progeny of prophets ((عليه السلام).).

• Tahzeeb al-Asma wa al-Lugaat vol 1 p 155

1. Salah al-Deen Safadi (exp. 764 A.H.) documents – Jafar Ibn Muhammad Ibn Ali Ibn al-Husain Ibn Ali Ibn Abi Talib ((عليه السلام).) – he was famous as al-Sadiq, the Madani Imam of knowledge…he possesses multiple virtues, he was deserving of caliphate owing to his seniority, knowledge and nobility.

• Al-Waafi bil Wafiyyaat vol 11 p 126-128

1. Hafiz Shahab al-Deen Ahmed Ibn Ali Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (exp. 852 A.H.) records – Jafar Ibn Muhammad Ibn Ali Ibn al-Husain Ibn Ali Ibn Abi Talib ((عليه السلام).) al-Hashimi Abu Abdillah famous as al-Sadiq, (he was) truthful, jurist and the sixth Imam…

• Taqrib al-Tahzeeb vol 1 p 91

1. Ibne Khallekaan records: Al-Imam Jafar Ibn Muhammad al-Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) – he is the sixth Imam from the pure Ahle Bait ((عليه السلام).) and he was titled al-Sadiq due to truthfulness in speech. His excellence is too well-known to need any mentioning.

 

He was born in the 80^th A.H. and passed away (martyred) in 148 A.H. He was buried in al-Baqi adjacent to his father Muhammad al-Baqir ((عليه السلام).) and his grandfather Ali, Zain al-Abedeen ((عليه السلام).) and latter’s uncle al-Hasan Ibn Ali ((عليه السلام).). May Allah reward him how much nobility and grace He has bestowed on his grave.

 

• Wafaayaat al-A’yaan vol 1 p 327

 

http://ijtihadnet.com/imam-jafar-al-sadiq-a-s-from-the-viewpoint-of-sunni-scholars/

Imam Jafar al-Sadiqs hadith collections, his debates, and his political confrontations

A follower of Imam Sadiq, Aban bin Taghlib explains the Shi'a faith as such: The Shi'a are the people whom when a difference of opinion regarding a saying from the holy Prophet arises, they take the words of Amir al-Mu’minin and when a difference of opinion regarding a saying from Imam Ali arises, use the narration of Ja'far bin Muhammad al- Sadiq.5

 

5. Rijal al-Najashi, p. 9:

 الشيعة الّذين اذا إختلف النّاس عن رسول اللّه اخذو بقول علي و اذا اختلف النّاس عن علي اخذو بقول جعفر بن محمد 

Imam Sadiq would recount his tradition for his Shi'a and Sunni students and they would in turn record his narrations. The Sunnis would report the narration beginning with: "From Ja'far bin Muhammad, from his fathers, from the Messenger of God" and with the citation and chain of narration. The Shi'as cited their sources beginning with "From Abi Abdullah" without citing the chain of narration due to the Shi'a belief in the infallibility of the Imams and the authoritativeness hujjiyah of their sayings. Nonetheless, the Imam insisted that his narrations were none other than the Prophet's own narrations: My narration is my father's narration and my father's narration is my forefathers' narration and my forefathers' narration is Ali ibn Abi Talib's narration and Amir al- Mu'minin's narration is the Prophet's narration and the Prophet's narration is Allah's command.8

 

8. Kashf al-Ghummah, vol. 2, p. 170; Kafi, vol. 1, p. 5:

 حديثي حديث ابي و حديث ابي حديث جدّي و حديث جدّي حديث علي ابن ابي طالب و حديث علي حديث رسول اللّه و حديث رسول اللّه قول اللّه 

https://www.imamreza.net/old/eng/imamreza.php?id=13806

 

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

addendum

Jabir b. Abd Allah al-Ansari

 

In the Time of the Three Caliphs

There is no information on Jabir b. 'Abd Allah attitude toward the first caliph, Abu Bakr.^[17] It's probable that he was among Ansar (Helpers) and Muhajirun (Emigrants) in Medina. After some time he joined the supporters of Imam 'Ali (a) and Ahl al-Bayt (a).

He was engaged with scientific and educational affairs; he mostly avoided political and military affairs. The only battle he participated in was at the beginning of military conquests of Muslims during the reign of the second Caliph, 'Umar b. al-Khattab.

Imam 'Ali's (a) Caliphate

Jabir has fought alongside Imam 'Ali (a) in the Battle of Siffin.^[21]

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 In the last days of Imam 'Ali's (a) caliphate, Mu'awiya army attacked and plundered cities, including Medina, to take the oath of allegiance from people. Busr b. Artat was the one who attacked Medina in 40/660-1 to take an oath of allegiance from people including Banu Salama, the tribe of Jabir. Jabir thought taking an oath of allegiance to Busr b. Artat would be going astray. So he hid in Umm Salama's house, Prophet Muhammad's wife. Finally, to avoid bloodshed, Jabir took Umm Salama's advice and took an oath of allegiance to Busr.^[22]

 

Imam al-Baqir (a) directly, and Imam al-Sadiq (a) and Imam al-Kazim (a) indirectly have narrated hadiths of Prophet Muhammad (s) from Jabir b. 'Abd Allah.^[39]

Jabir has narrated well-known hadiths of Shi'a, including hadith al-Ghadir,^[40] hadith al-Thaqalayn,^[41] hadith of the City of Knowledge,^[42] Hadith al-Manzila,^[43] hadith Radd al-Shams^[44] and hadith Sadd al-Abwab.^[45]

Jabir has also narrated hadith al-Lawh, a famous and important hadith in which Prophet Muhammad (s) has declared the names of twelve Imams and described Imam al-Mahdi (a).^[46] It is regarded as the most well-known hadith that Jabir has narrated from Prophet Muhammad (s).

[46]  Ṣadūq, Kamāl al-dīn, vol. 1, p. 258-259.

 

Supporting Imam al-Sajjad (a)

At the beginning of 'Ali b. al-Husayn's (a) imamate, Imam had only a few companions including Jabir b. 'Abd Allah. Due to his old age, Jabir was not prosecuted by al-Hajjaj b. Yusuf.

Meeting with Imam al-Baqir (a)

According to historical accounts, Prophet Muhammad (s) told Jabir:

"You will have a long life so that you will meet one of my descendants whose name will be my name; he is called Revealer of Knowledge. When you meet him, send my salam (greetings) to him."^[64]

Thus Jabir was eagerly looking for him. Sometimes he calls "O! the revealer of knowledge" in the Masjid al-Nabi. Finally, he found Muhammad b. 'Ali (a), who was a teenager; he recalled the saying of the Prophet (s), kissed al-Baqir (a) and sent the salam (greetings) of Prophet Muhammad (s) to him.^[65]

^{[65]  Kulaynī, al-Kāfī, vol. 1, p. 469-470.}

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Jabir_b._Abd_Allah_al-Ansari

 

[Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi]

On 10/26/2023 at 5:52 PM, NizariIsmaili. said:

lsmail (عليه السلام) imamat proofs:

 

Imam Ja‘far [Abu ‘Abdullah] was reprimanding and admonishing ‘Abdullah [his son], saying: ‘Why can’t you be more like your brother?’ By God, I recognize the Light (al-nur) in his face.’ ‘Abdullah said: ‘Aren’t my father and his father the same? Aren’t my mother and his mother the same?’ Then Imam Ja‘far [Abu ‘Abdullah] said: ‘Verily, Isma‘il is from my own soul (nafsi) while you are my son.’

 

‘Ali b. Babawayh al-Qummi (d. ca. 328-329/939-941), (al-Imāma wa l-tabṣīra, Madrasa Imam al-Mahdi, Qum 1404/1984, 73 / Mu’assasa Aal al-Bayt, Beirut 1407/1987, 210, Hadith No. 63;

 

Image Note: This image is from the 1987 published edition of al-Imāma wa l-tabṣīra edited by the Twelver scholar Sayyid Muhammad Rida al-Husayni al-Jalali published in Beirut, p. 210, where the Hadith correctly reads “Verily, Isma‘il is from my own soul”. However, in the 1984 edition of al-Imāma wa l-tabṣīra published in Qum [read the Arabic text online], the Editor arbitrarily REMOVED the name of Isma‘il from the published text, but he admits in Footnote #7 that the “Asl” (the 2 primary manuscripts) of this Hadith compilation DO say “Inna Isma‘il” instead of “Innahu”;

That's interesting and should be looked into. Unfortunately for most of us people here, it's impossible to look into all the old manuscripts of al-imama wal tabsira.
Removal of name `Ismail` from the manuscript (if it has happened) is not because of deception of Twelvers because if our scholars were to deceive, they wouldn't mention it in the footnotes. Rather its from the tehqeeq of the researcher and that he published what has been authentically transmitted to the best of his knowledge.

On 10/26/2023 at 5:52 PM, NizariIsmaili. said:

Note: The Twelver Shi’i hadith compiler al-Kulayni (d. 941) quoted the above hadith with the same chain as Ibn Babawayh al-Qummi in his Usul al-Kafi (ed. ‘Ali Akbar al-Ghifari, 5th edition, 1984, Vol. 1, 310, Hadith No. 10). But Kulayni removed the name of Imam Isma‘il b. Ja‘far from the original hadith and instead presented the hadith as evidence for Musa al-Kazim’s Imamat.Read the Arabic Text of al-Kulayni’s doctored version of the narration.

Now that's a fine way to deceive people generally. Do you have ilm-ul-ghaib and witnessed Kulayni distorting the hadith?
here's the hadith from Al-Kafi:

مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الْحُسَيْنِ عَنْ جَعْفَرِ بْنِ بَشِيرٍ عَنْ فُضَيْلٍ عَنْ طَاهِرٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ الله قَالَ كَانَ أَبُو عَبْدِ الله ((عليه السلام)) يَلُومُ عَبْدَ الله وَيُعَاتِبُهُ وَيَعِظُهُ وَيَقُولُ مَا مَنَعَكَ أَنْ تَكُونَ مِثْلَ أَخِيكَ فَوَ الله إِنِّي لاعْرِفُ النُّورَ فِي وَجْهِهِ فَقَالَ عَبْدُ الله لِمَ أَ لَيْسَ أَبِي وَأَبُوهُ وَاحِداً وَأُمِّي وَأُمُّهُ وَاحِدَةً فَقَالَ لَهُ أَبُو عَبْدِ الله إِنَّهُ مِنْ نَفْسِي وَأَنْتَ ابْنِي

This is rather proof for us twelvers that Kulayni found it to be INAHU in the manuscripts of books of companions he had because he was thiqa. Kulayni wasn't a liar. Hence its just your assumption that he changed the hadith while the book Al-imama wa tabsira you quoted has differences in its manuscripts.

Besides, this hadith alone, cannot be a clear nass for imamah brother. It can be said that Ismail (عليه السلام) was a very good person and obeyed Imam Al_Sadiq (عليه السلام) contrary to Abdullah hence Imam's words innahu min nafsi could mean he's just like me, a good man, a pious and wise person. Majlisi is not Imam Al-Masoom and remember if Majlisi said it refers to imamah, keep it in mind that he had Imam Musa (عليه السلام) in his mind considering other clear evidence he has for his Imamah.

[Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi]

On 10/26/2023 at 5:52 PM, NizariIsmaili. said:

lsmail (عليه السلام) imamat proofs:

 

On 10/26/2023 at 5:52 PM, NizariIsmaili. said:

‘Ali b. Babawayh al-Qummi (d. ca. 328-329/939-941), (al-Imāma wa l-tabṣīra, Madrasa Imam al-Mahdi, Qum 1404/1984, 73 / Mu’assasa Aal al-Bayt, Beirut 1407/1987, 210, Hadith No. 63;

I was having a look at the book al-imama wal tabsira and read this in Muqaddama al tahqeeq:

النوري في مستدركه على الوسائل ج 3 ص 529 س 5: نعم قال في أول البحار في جملة ما كان عنده من المؤلفات: " كتاب الإمامة والتبصرة... " ثم أورد نص البحار وعقب عليه بقوله: ونحن لم نعثر على هذا الكتاب، ونقلنا منه جملة الأخبار بتوسط البحار ونسبناه إلى أبي الحسن علي، تبعا للعلامة المجلسي، ولكن في النفس منه شئ.
فإنه وإن عد النجاشي والشيخ وابن شهرآشوب من مؤلفاته، كتاب الإمامة والتبصرة من الحيرة، إلا أن في كون ما كان عنده هو الذي عد من مؤلفاته نظرا، فإنه يروي في هذا الكتاب عن أبي محمد هارون بن موسى التلعكبري الذي هو من مشايخ المفيد والسيدين، وعن الحسن بن حمزة العلوي الذي هو أيضا من مشايخ المفيد والغضائري وابن عبدون، وعن أحمد بن علي، عن محمد بن الحسن، والظاهر أنه ابن الوليد، عن محمد بن الحسن الصفار، وعن سهل بن أحمد الديباجي عن محمد بن محمد الأشعث إلى غير ذلك مما ينافي طبقته وإن أمكن التكلف في بعضها إلا أن ملاحظة الجميع تورث الظن القوي بعدم كونه منه، والله أعلم.

Bard AI (Google):

Muhaddith Noori in his Mustadrak al-Wasa'il, volume 3, page 529, line 5:

Yes, he said in the beginning of Al-Bihar, in a list of his works: "The Book of Imamate and Insight..." Then he quoted the text of Al-Bihar and commented on it by saying: "We have not found this book, and we have quoted a number of reports from it through Al-Bihar and attributed it to Abu al-Hasan Ali, following the Allamah Majlisi, but there is something in it that troubles me."

He said, "Although the Najashi, the Sheikh, and Ibn Shahr Ashob counted the book Al-Imamah wa al-Tabsira from al-Hirah among his works, there is a problem with the possibility that what he had is the same as what he counted among his works. For he narrates in this book from Abu Muhammad Harun ibn Musa al-Talakburi, who is one of the teachers of al-Mufid and the Sayyids, and from al-Hasan ibn Hamza al-'Alawi, who is also one of the teachers of al-Mufid, al-Ghadhairi, and Ibn Abdun, and from Ahmad ibn Ali, from Muhammad ibn al-Hasan, who is apparently Ibn al-Walid, from Muhammad ibn al-Hasan al-Saffar, and from Sahl ibn Ahmad al-Dibaji from Muhammad ibn Muhammad al-Ash'ath, and other things that contradict his period. Although it is possible to make an effort to explain some of these, the consideration of all of them gives rise to a strong suspicion that it is not from him. And Allah knows best."

Explanation:

Muhaddith Noori is saying that he has not found a copy of the book Al-Imamah wa al-Tabsira, which is attributed to Abu al-Hasan Ali, a Shia scholar who lived in the 10th century. He has quoted a number of reports from the book through Al-Bihar al-Anwar, a large Shia hadith collection by Muhammad Baqir al-Majlisi. However, he is suspicious of the attribution of the book to Abu al-Hasan Ali.

The reason for his suspicion is that the book contains reports from narrators who lived after Abu al-Hasan Ali. For example, the book contains a report from Abu Muhammad Harun ibn Musa al-Talakburi, who died in 384 AH, while Abu al-Hasan Ali died in 329 AH.

Muhaddith Noori says that it is possible to explain some of these reports by saying that Abu al-Hasan Ali was quoting from the works of other scholars. However, he says that the consideration of all of the reports together gives rise to a strong suspicion that the book is not from Abu al-Hasan Ali.

Conclusion:

Muhaddith Noori's opinion is that the book Al-Imamah wa al-Tabsira is not from Abu al-Hasan Ali. He believes that the book is a later compilation of reports from different sources.

Bard-AI google response ends.

Additionally i also found this:

 البحراني الأصفهاني - صاحب موسوعة العوالم - في هامش كتابه رياض العلماء ج 4 ص 5: ثم في كون كتاب التبصرة والإمامة من مؤلفاته تأمل وإن صرح به ابن شهرآشوب في معالم العلماء - كما سيأتي - لأن مؤلفه على ما يظهر من مطاويه يروي عن هارون بن موسى، عن محمد بن علي، والظاهر أن هارون بن موسى هو التلعكبري، فكيف يروى عنه مع أن التلعكبري ممن يروي المفيد ونظراؤه عنه، فتأمل. ثم إنه يروي عن الحسن بن حمزة العلوي، وهو متأخر الطبقة عن علي بن بابويه، فإن الحسن ابن حمزة المذكور من مشايخ المفيد، وأيضا الظاهر أن الحسن بن حمزة هذا هو ابن حمزة العلوي، الذي يروي عنه الصدوق في كتبه، فكيف يروي والده عن ولده، فتأمل.

Bard AI Google:

The text you provided is from the margin of the book "Riyadh al-Ulama'" by Shaykh al-Baha'i al-Isfahani, volume 4, page 5. In this passage, Shaykh al-Baha'i is discussing the attribution of the book "Al-Taqrib wa al-Imama" to Abu al-Hasan Ali, a Shia scholar who lived in the 10th century.

Shaykh al-Baha'i agrees with Muhaddith Noori that the attribution of the book to Abu al-Hasan Ali is doubtful. He points out that the book contains reports from narrators who lived after Abu al-Hasan Ali, including Abu Muhammad Harun ibn Musa al-Talakburi, who died in 384 AH, while Abu al-Hasan Ali died in 329 AH.

Shaykh al-Baha'i also points out that the book contains reports from narrators who are not mentioned in the biographies of Abu al-Hasan Ali. For example, the book contains a report from al-Hasan ibn Hamza al-'Alawi, who is mentioned as a teacher of al-Mufid, who lived in the 11th century.

Based on these observations, Shaykh al-Baha'i concludes that the book "Al-Taqrib wa al-Imama" is not from Abu al-Hasan Ali. He believes that the book is a later compilation of reports from different sources.

Here is a translation of the passage:

Shaykh al-Baha'i al-Isfahani in the margin of his book "Riyadh al-Ulama'", volume 4, page 5:

"There is some doubt about the attribution of the book "Al-Taqrib wa al-Imama" to Abu al-Hasan Ali, even though Ibn Shahr Ashob explicitly stated it in his book "Maqamat al-Ulama'". This is because the author of the book, as is apparent from its contents, narrates from Harun ibn Musa, from Muhammad ibn Ali. It is apparent that Harun ibn Musa is al-Talakburi. So how can he narrate from him, when al-Talakburi is one of the narrators of al-Mufid and his peers? This is something to consider.

Then, he narrates from al-Hasan ibn Hamza al-'Alawi, who is of a later generation than Ali ibn Babuwayh. This is because the aforementioned al-Hasan ibn Hamza is one of the teachers of al-Mufid. And it is also apparent that this al-Hasan ibn Hamza is the son of Hamza al-'Alawi, from whom al-Sadouq narrates in his books. So how can the father narrate from the son? This is something to consider."

In conclusion, Shaykh al-Baha'i agrees with Muhaddith Noori that the attribution of the book "Al-Taqrib wa al-Imama" to Abu al-Hasan Ali is doubtful. He believes that the book is a later compilation of reports from different sources.

Bard-AI google response ends.

I think the book is doubtful and its attribution isn't proven. Besides in the book itself, the hadith comes in list of chapters where the author quotes hadiths to refute Imamah of Abdulllah Bin Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) and Ismail bin Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) so it doesn't make sense that this hadith had Ismail name in it. Rather via authentic sources, we know hadith narrated with this chain only has innahu.

[NizariIsmaili.]

7 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam, has cruzado líneas sobre insultar a los imanes infalibles, y tu mentira betalant también es un insulto a los imanes infalibles anteriores, incluso al profeta Mahoma (pbu), y tu acusación infundada también es contra el Sagrado Corán, que maldijo a Shaitan y ha anunciado que no puede tener ninguna autoridad. sobre ellos, ni siquiera él puede tomar forma de ellos basándose en narraciones auténticas, mientras que usted, por demostrar su falsedad, ha insultado al profeta Mahoma (pbu) y a sus sucesores por parte de imanes infalibles, lo que resta de sus tonterías por encima de su conclusión malvada es una mala interpretación de los ismaelitas de los Doce. Hadiths cuya conclusión muestra que estás bajo la influencia de Shaitan maldito: arrepiéntete antes de que sea demasiado tarde para ti. 

) Él dijo: '¡Mi Señor! Como me has consignado a la perversidad, seguramente les haré glamor [el mal] en la tierra, y seguramente los pervertiré, a todos ( 39) excepto a Tus siervos dedicados entre ellos.' (40)     

Y han establecido un parentesco entre Él y los genios , mientras que los genios ciertamente saben que serán presentados [ante Él]. (158) Alá está claro de todo lo que alegan [sobre Él] (159) —[todos] excepto los siervos exclusivos de Alá. (160)

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/37:160

 

I have not insulted anyone, I have simply drawn these conclusions from Thirdshahada.com, ismailignosis and other sources, sorry if i ofended you

[NizariIsmaili.]

6 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Afortunadamente, existen numerosos informes que fundamentan y prueban el Imamato del Imam (AS):

Ibn Sabbagh dice: 'Abdul A'laa narra de Faydh bin Mukhtar que le dijo al Imam Sadiq (AS): "Extiende una mano y sálvame del Fuego diciéndome quién es el Imam después de ti". Al mismo tiempo, Musa bin Ja'far surgió cuando aún era un niño. El Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) lo señaló y dijo: "Este es tu Imam y debes recurrir a él". [17]

 

[16]  Qarashi, Baqir Sharif,  Hayat al-Imam Musa bin Ja'far  (عليه السلام), vol.1, p. 49, Dar al-Balaghah, Beirut, primera edición, 1413 AH

[17]  Ibídem, p.933.

Skeikh Mufid dice a este respecto: "Musa bin Ja'far (عليه السلام) es el imán después de su padre. Precede a todos los demás hijos del Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) porque: 1- Era el más religioso de los hombres de su tiempo, el más conocedor de la ley, el más generoso y el más noble de espíritu. 2. Hay tradiciones auténticas y confiables que se refieren explícitamente a él. 3. Su noble padre declaró claramente: "Él es el sucesor y el imán después de mí". [18]

[18] al-Irshad fi Ma'refat Hujajillah 'Alal 'ibad,  vol.2, p.215; Además, para obtener más información sobre los textos e informes sobre el Imamato del Imam Musa bin Ja'far, puede ver: Kulayni, Muhammad bin Ya'qub,  Al-Kaif,  investigado y corregido, Ghaffari, Ali Akbar, Akhundi, Muhammad, vol. 1, pág. 307 – 311, Dar al-Kutub al-Islamiyah, Teherán, cuarta edición, 1407 AH Sheikh Hurr Ameli,  Ithbat al-Hudath bin-Nusus wa al-Mu'jizat , vol.4, p, 216 – 222, A'alami , Beirut, primera edición, 1425 AH 

https://www.islamquest.net/en/blog/403-biografía-de-imam-musa-kadhim-as-and-his-children-2

in fact we believe that your imams from musa kazim were named to protect the legacy of our imams

[NizariIsmaili.]

5 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Eso es interesante y debería analizarse. Desafortunadamente para la mayoría de nosotros aquí, es imposible examinar todos los manuscritos antiguos de al-imama wal tabsira.
La eliminación del nombre `Ismail` del manuscrito (si ha sucedido) no se debe al engaño de los Doce, porque si nuestros eruditos engañaran, no lo mencionarían en las notas a pie de página. Más bien proviene del tehqeeq del investigador y de que él publicó lo que se ha transmitido auténticamente según su leal saber y entender.

Esa es una buena manera de engañar a la gente en general. ¿Tienes ilm-ul-ghaib y has sido testigo de cómo Kulayni distorsiona el hadiz?
Aquí está el hadiz de Al-Kafi:

مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الْحُسَيْنِ عَنْ جَعْفَرِ بْنِ بَشِير ٍ عَنْ فُضَيْلٍ عَنْ طَاهِرٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ الله قَالَ كَانَ أَبُو عَبْدِ الله ((عليه ال سلام)) يَلُومُ عَبْدَ الله وَيُعَاتِبُهُ وَيَعِظُهُ وَيَقُولُ مَا مَنَعَكَ أَنْ تَكُون َ مِثْلَ أَخِيكَ فَوَ الله إِنِّي لاعْرِفُ النُّورَ فِي وَجْهِهِ فَقَالَ عَبْدُ الله لِمَ أَ لَيْسَ أَبِي وَأَبُوهُ وَاحِداً وَأُمِّي وَأُمُّهُ وَاحِدَةً فَقَالَ لَهُ أَبُو عَبْدِ الله إِنَّهُ مِنْ نَفْسِي وَأَنْتَ ابْنِي

Esto es más bien una prueba para nosotros, los doce, de que Kulayni encontró que era  INAHU  en los manuscritos de los libros de los compañeros que tenía porque era thiqa. Kulayni no era un mentiroso. Por lo tanto, es solo su suposición que él cambió el hadiz, mientras que el libro Al-imama wa tabsira que usted citó tiene diferencias en sus manuscritos.

Además, este hadiz por sí solo no puede ser una molestia clara para el hermano imamah. Se puede decir que Ismail (عليه السلام) era una muy buena persona y obedecía al Imam Al_Sadiq (عليه السلام) al contrario de Abdullah, por lo que las palabras del Imam innahu min nafsi podrían significar que es como yo, un buen hombre, una persona piadosa y sabia. Majlisi no es Imam Al-Masoom y recuerde que si Majlisi dijo que se refiere a imamah, tenga en cuenta que tenía en mente al Imam Musa (عليه السلام) considerando otras pruebas claras que tiene de su Imamah.

I am not saying that your scholars lie, I copied some things from the ismailignosis article

[Ashvazdanghe]

16 hours ago, NizariIsmaili. said:

in fact we believe that your imams from musa kazim were named to protect the legacy of our imams

Salam this is best thing for poor joke of day thread which your argument about your so called imams is too weaker than logic of Zaydis about their so called Imams  which both of so called  Ismali & Zaydi imams are not comparable with infallible shia Imams which  both of you just try to build a house from sand with too weak columns of fabrication & misinterpretation . 

16 hours ago, NizariIsmaili. said:

I have not insulted anyone, I have simply drawn these conclusions from Thirdshahada.com, ismailignosis and other sources, sorry if i ofended you

your words are exactly  example of insulting & blasphemy . 

[Shii12]

On 10/28/2023 at 10:25 AM, NizariIsmaili. said:

in fact we believe that your imams from musa kazim were named to protect the legacy of our imams

Absolutely not true. Why did the Ismaili Imams, some of them lived normal lives. While it is known that the twelver imams were persecuted and martyred. This should be definite proofs of their holy statuses. Even the Abbasids and Umayyads know that these are in fact the true successors to Rasulallah(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). When has an Ismaili imam actually been recognized by the sunni community. The twelver imams were recognized by the Sunni communities as the most knowledgeable people of their respective times. There are even hadiths were Sunnis recieve miracles from visiting shirines of the imams.

[NizariIsmaili.]

1. Everyone agrees that ismail was appointed, twelve sheikhs admitted it and even 12 imams admitted it

 

2. Could it have been that Ismail was appointed to protect Musa from the Abbasids?

Maybe yes and maybe not but what we have is that he was named and also Imam Jafar could have simply named another of his sons and not Ismail since Ismail was his most beloved son, therefore it would not make much sense to name him.

 

3. Why is your imam mahdi hiding?

Why he is afraid?

Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) for example knew his destiny and did not hide nor was he afraid of anyone. The Aga khan (عليه السلام) should be more afraid since the majority of Muslims hate him and his followers and yet he does not hide from anyone, also the imam must be present at all times to guide his community, not in ghayba and without doing anything

 

Everyone believes in what they want, according to what they discover and according to research.

[SO SOLID SHIA]

On 10/28/2023 at 3:25 PM, NizariIsmaili. said:

in fact we believe that your imams from musa kazim were named to protect the legacy of our imams

Salam Brother! I have read this before. It was very interesting, the belief that the Ithna Asheri Imams and Ismaili imams worked together since they were brothers. I've been looking for more extensive information and material about the life of Ismail Ibn Jafar (عليه السلام) . Are you aware that the Nizaris were protected by the Nimatullahi Sufi order and even one of the Nizari Syed scholars became the Qutb of a 12er sect? I love Ismaili history!!!!! 

PEACE N BLESSINGS

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 12/8/2023 at 3:48 AM, NizariIsmaili. said:

3. Why is your imam mahdi hiding?

Why he is afraid?

Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) for example knew his destiny and did not hide nor was he afraid of anyone. The Aga khan (عليه السلام) should be more afraid since the majority of Muslims hate him and his followers and yet he does not hide from anyone, also the imam must be present at all times to guide his community, not in ghayba and without doing anything

Salam every infallible Imam has had specific duty which they have acted based on situation of their time & community which during time of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) only option has been sacrificing himself for saving Islam in order to prepare people for reappearance of Imam Mahdi (aJ) which Imam Sadiq(as)'s era has needed increasing knowledge of muslim which he clearly rejected Abbasid offer for armed uprising against cursed Umayyads because armed uprising has been in favor of enemies of Islam which in similar fashion rest of infallible Imams have acted based on situation of their time & their community for preparation of world for reappearance of Imam Mahdi (aj) which accusing Imam Mahdi (aj) to cowardice is a wahabi accusation which Sunni community even their radicals have no problem with Aga khan & his followers because all are deviation from right way which all of  Aga Khans from first to last have been supported by Britain as their agents between muslims likewise Ahmadis , Wahabis & Bahais which all of these deviated groups have created by Britain which now have support of it & zionists which Aga khan only deviates people from right pass by help of Britain & zionists which your rhetoric about being in ghyba & not doing anything have been refuted countless times in debates with Wahabis & other anti shia groups which in similar fashion guiding people & his effectiveness in world have been proved countless times too . 

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 1/1/2024 at 10:56 PM, SO SOLID SHIA said:

Are you aware that the Nizaris were protected by the Nimatullahi Sufi order and even one of the Nizari Syed scholars became the Qutb of a 12er sect? I love Ismaili history!!!!! 

Salam it's a totally wrong conclusion which the Nimatullahi Sufi order is a deviated group in similar fashion of Nizaris which they place their Qutb  as equivalent of 12th Imam which certainly 12ers don't support it which 12ers never protected Nizaris.

On 1/1/2024 at 10:56 PM, SO SOLID SHIA said:

It was very interesting, the belief that the Ithna Asheri Imams and Ismaili imams worked together since they were brothers.

which there was no cooperation between Ithna Ashari Imams & so called Ismaili leaders  which since Qajar era & advent of Agha khan branch by support of Britain ,Agha Khani  Ismails have becamae enemies of Twelvers which in similar fashion Nimatullahi Sufi order has been supported by Britain for causing deviation between twelvers so therefore they have protected Nizaris by order of Britain so therefore both of british-zionist backed  deviated groups have no relation to twelvers anymore. 

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 12/8/2023 at 3:48 AM, NizariIsmaili. said:

1. Everyone agrees that ismail was appointed, twelve sheikhs admitted it and even 12 imams admitted it

 

2. Could it have been that Ismail was appointed to protect Musa from the Abbasids?

Maybe yes and maybe not but what we have is that he was named and also Imam Jafar could have simply named another of his sons and not Ismail since Ismail was his most beloved son, therefore it would not make much sense to name him.

Salam

1.only Ismailis likewise you beleive to this false rhetoric which you couldn't provided an evidence that any twelver shia sheikh has  believed to it except parroting Ismaili propganda .

2.He never appointed as Imam which statement of Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) has been a wish for not separating shias to multiple groups which founders of Ismailism just creted it because of their financial corruption because they didn't want to handle a large amount of Zakat & Khums to Imam Musa Kadhim (عليه السلام) which for that Abbasids have supported founders of Ismailism which there has been other options for proptecting life of next Imam , Imam Musa Kadhim (عليه السلام) than appointing a fake successor. 

[SO SOLID SHIA]

7 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam it's a totally wrong conclusion which the Nimatullahi Sufi order is a deviated group in similar fashion of Nizaris which they place their Qutb  as equivalent of 12th Imam which certainly 12ers don't support it which 12ers never protected Nizaris.

Walaykum Salam brother 

There are several branches of the Nimatullahi whilst a few of them were infiltrated by Savak there still remained some authentic ones. And yes please research the relationship between the Ismailis and the Nimatullahis in India before one of the Qutbs came to Iran. They do not believe their Qutb is equivalent to the 12th imam as the Qutb himself recites Ziarah and includes the 12th Imam after the others. please do not spread misinformation akhi it's very not nice biradarrrrrrrrrr hababy

Edited January 3, 2024 by SO SOLID SHIA

[SO SOLID SHIA]

7 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

which there was no cooperation between Ithna Ashari Imams & so called Ismaili leaders  which since Qajar era & advent of Agha khan branch by support of Britain ,Agha Khani  Ismails have becamae enemies of Twelvers which in similar fashion Nimatullahi Sufi order has been supported by Britain for causing deviation between twelvers so therefore they have protected Nizaris by order of Britain so therefore both of british-zionist backed  deviated groups

I've noticed a pattern brother. You're very fond of labelling everyone 'ENEMIES' I'm just curious, do you live in Iran? If so that would make sense... I have a lot of balanced Iranian friends who don't get angry at everyone but also a few that call everyone a zionist infiltrator. 

Anybody that has a difference of opinion is called a British agent lol 

Respectfully you sound like one of those... Don't worry I have some friends like that which means that me and you are still best friends forever Hababy

[Ashvazdanghe]

14 hours ago, SO SOLID SHIA said:

do you live in Iran?

Salam yeah I leave in Iran , 

 

14 hours ago, SO SOLID SHIA said:

Anybody that has a difference of opinion is called a British agent lol 

This is your unbalanced idea which I have said it based on multiple undeniable documents & facts which Agha khani Ismailism is a british invention which has been created by Britain  in similar fashion of Ahamdism , Bahaism &  Wahabism at same era which full history of all of these artificial cults are available for anyone .

14 hours ago, SO SOLID SHIA said:

They do not believe their Qutb is equivalent to the 12th imam as the Qutb himself recites Ziarah and includes the 12th Imam after the others.

This is not a reliable proof which many sects even non muslims  do Ziarah  which all sufis likewise Nimatullahis cult believe that their Qutb is equivalent to Imam of their time which is now 12th Imam .

14 hours ago, SO SOLID SHIA said:

There are several branches of the Nimatullahi whilst a few of them were infiltrated by Savak there still remained some authentic ones

All of their leaders specially their main leader in Iran have clear cooperation with Savak which Savak has been using  members of  Nimatullahi as infiltrator between muslim opposition groups against Pahlavi which their recent conflict with current government of Iran has shown their strong ties with zionist Israel . 

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 12/8/2023 at 3:48 AM, NizariIsmaili. said:

The Aga khan.... should be more afraid

the aga khan as a british imperial agent during world

https://www.jstor.org/stable/44139444

https://www.britishempire.me.uk/aga-khan-iii.html

 

Quote

 It is a fact that Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah during World War I and World War II was an ardent supporter of the British and the Allies: "He aided the British in both World Wars and urged his followers to do the same" (Waserman, The Templars and the Assassins, 2001); "During the war, he rendered assistance from his residence in Switzerland to the British Empire in its operations against Germany (which tried to assassinate him) in Iran and elsewhere." (Steinberg, Ismaili Modern, 48). The Imam sent messages to his Jamats worldwide to pray for the Allies and support the British war effort. 

 

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"The diatribe put in the Aga Khan's mouth did not sound like the view of an Indian prince who had worshipped the British royal family since the first weekend he spent at Windsor as Queen Victoria's guest. Even Joachim von Ribbentrop, Hitler's Foreign Minister, to whom Hohenlohe's reports were sent, regarded the Aga Khan as a partisan of the British and more likely to pass on information to them than vice versa. The German consul in Switzerland was instructed to tell the Aga Khan, if the opportunity arose, that 'we intend to destroy England'.

When the Hohenlohe reports were published after the war, Aly Khan was angry: 'Ridiculous,' he said, 'my father was passionately pro-British.' While the Aga Khan became the victim of Nazi agents—although he never once left Switzerland during the war, they spread a rumour that he visited occupied Paris as Hitler's guest."

https://ask.ismailignosis.com/article/124-did-aga-khan-iii-support-the-nazis-and-hitler

 

ĀQĀ KHAN, title of the imams of the Nezārī Ismaʿilis since early 19th century.

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The Āqā Khan continued supplying mercenary services in Sind, where he helped the British in implementing the “forward policy.” He not only placed his cavalry at their disposal but also put pressure on Nāṣer Khan, the ruler of Kalāt, to cede Karachi to the British, and when he proved obdurate, he betrayed his battle plans to the British (see ʿEbrat-afzā, p. 60; William Napier, History of Sir Charles Napier’s Administration of Scinde, London, 1851, p.75). For these and other services rendered in Sind, the Āqā Khan received an annual subvention of 2,000 pounds and the hereditary title of Highness.

 

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The new place of residence was not without its benefits. Not only did the British continue their patronage (the Āqā Khan was the only Indian dignitary visited in his home by the Prince of Wales on his state visit to India), but also it became possible to organize the Ismaʿili community more tightly and profitably than had been possible at the remote and changing seats of the imamate in Iran. Ismaʿilis from places as distant as Badaḵšān had shown great resourcefulness in visiting their imam even during his campaigns and wanderings in south-east Iran, Afghanistan and Sind; now that he was settled in Bombay, the flow of tribute swelled to a flood, and in the words of one Ismaʿili source, “the palaces of the Āqā Khan began to cover a large area of Bombay” (M. Ḡāleb, Aʿlām al-Esmāʿīlīya, p. 217).

https://iranicaonline.org/articles/aqa-khan-title

 

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Inside Afghanistan, the Aga Khan began to trek from Girishk to Kandhar. On August 6, 1841 the intelligence from Girishk reached Rawlinson, reporting the arrival of the Aga Khan and his hundred horsemen. Rawlinson in turn informed to MacNaghten of the Aga Khan's influence and of his importance as an Iranian refugee in Afghanistan. Henceforward, a close relation developed between the Aga Khan and the British. From Girishk, the Aga Khan had reported his arrival to Muhammad Taymur, the Birtish appointed governor of Kandhar, and also to Major Henry Rawlinson. Soon after his arrival in Kandhar, the Aga Khan sent a letter on October 21, 1841 to Sir William MacNaghten (1839-1891), the British envoy at Kabul, expressing his reasons for leaving Iran that, 'Since the conduct of the Iranian government has been so opperssive that all the respectable people and nobles of Iran, particularly those of Iraq, Fars and Kirman have been reduced to vexatious misery, the whole body of the learned men, governors and chiefs induced to throw off the yoke of the Iranian allegiance and protect the wretched people.' The Aga Khan stayed on as a guest of Muhammad Taymur at Kandhar. He lived very extravagantly in a large house with all his horsemen and servants, and received his allowances monthly from the Afghan revenues, that is 500 rupees for himself and 25 rupees for his each horseman. The number of horsemen he had brought with him was hundred, but later on the number was increased to three hundred

http://heritage.ismaili.net/node/18053

 

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The internal revolts in Kandhar were put down by October, 1841 by Nott, in which Akram Khan, the chief of Durrani tribe was executed, resulting a disaffection among the other tribes, and a very serious outbreak took place at Kabul too in November, which gradually spread to Kandhar. The British position became critical and in the ensuing struggle, the Aga Khan as the ally of the British, was necessarily involved. Rawlinson also made use of the Aga Khan's influence among the Shiite group, to bring about the success.