Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
Guest Glory

What Quran says about the shape of the Earth?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

The Quran is largely silent about most matters to do with science - the quran is basically a story of parables and laws. not a science textbook. early muslims all knew that the earth was not flat, since they had to rely on this fairly fundamental law when it came to travelling for trade and studying astronomy etc. 

when it comes to the "flat earth" - its fairly self evident that it is clearly not flat. where the quran talks about the earth being "spread flat around us" OWTTE, it doesnt mean the WHOLE world is flat, since, you know, mountains exist lol. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

The Quran is largely silent about most matters to do with science - the quran is basically a story of parables and laws. not a science textbook. early muslims all knew that the earth was not flat, since they had to rely on this fairly fundamental law when it came to travelling for trade and studying astronomy etc. 

when it comes to the "flat earth" - its fairly self evident that it is clearly not flat. where the quran talks about the earth being "spread flat around us" OWTTE, it doesnt mean the WHOLE world is flat, since, you know, mountains exist lol. 

 

7 hours ago, Guest Glory said:

Any one knows if any verse of Quran gives hint of the shape of the Earth?

There are plenty of things that are of scientific significance.  Although Quran does not elaborate natural phenomenon but implies towards it and if a person possesses analytical brain, he or she can deduce laws of science from it.

For example:

1. Quran says we cause days and night in rotation. So, there were two possibilities of rotation of day and night. Either sun rotate around earth or earth rotate around sun. Imam Al Sadiq a.s ruled out the idea that Sun rotates around sun but said earth rotates around earth. Secondly,  due to prolong rotation, a body losses curves and edges as it is forced by the opposing space winds. 

2. Quran says that every action has consequences just like Newton idea of action and reaction.

3. We created everything from water.

4. "Ard" does not mean globe of earth but it means flat land upon which we put our feet so do not confuse it with globe of World

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Sindbad05 said:

 

There are plenty of things that are of scientific significance.  Although Quran does not elaborate natural phenomenon but implies towards it and if a person possesses analytical brain, he or she can deduce laws of science from it.

For example:

1. Quran says we cause days and night in rotation. So, there were two possibilities of rotation of day and night. Either sun rotate around earth or earth rotate around sun. Imam Al Sadiq a.s ruled out the idea that Sun rotates around sun but said earth rotates around earth. Secondly,  due to prolong rotation, a body losses curves and edges as it is forced by the opposing space winds. 

2. Quran says that every action has consequences just like Newton idea of action and reaction.

3. We created everything from water.

4. "Ard" does not mean globe of earth but it means flat land upon which we put our feet so do not confuse it with globe of World

 

each of these can be explained away easily though. the quran doesnt anywhere specifically say "the earth is flat like a frisbee" neither does it say "the earth is a globe". with things like the word "Ard" - we have to look at things like tafsir and context. it cant be used as proof that the earth is flat, any more than if I stood in a field and said "the field is flat" 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, DigitalUmmah said:

each of these can be explained away easily though. the quran doesnt anywhere specifically say "the earth is flat like a frisbee" neither does it say "the earth is a globe". with things like the word "Ard" - we have to look at things like tafsir and context. it cant be used as proof that the earth is flat, any more than if I stood in a field and said "the field is flat" 

I believe in the quote of Imam Ali a.s whom someone asked what did Prophet taught you and He a.s ssid: "He Pbuhhp taught me Quran".

We should not say Quran does not contain this or that it contains everything but we do not read as it deserves. It's a key to all sciences. I believe that.

Yeah the word globe is not mentioned in Quran and many take "Ard" which means "land" for "globe" or "Duniya" which means "this life" for "globe".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Sindbad05 said:

I believe in the quote of Imam Ali a.s whom someone asked what did Prophet taught you and He a.s ssid: "He Pbuhhp taught me Quran".

We should not say Quran does not contain this or that it contains everything but we do not read as it deserves. It's a key to all sciences. I believe that.

Yeah the word globe is not mentioned in Quran and many take "Ard" which means "land" for "globe" or "Duniya" which means "this life" for "globe".

does the quran mention the duck billed platypus? or the star betelgeuse? or the bacteria streptococcus? 

no man. the quran is a book of law how we should live our lives. its not a science textbook.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

does the quran mention the duck billed platypus? or the star betelgeuse? or the bacteria streptococcus? 

no man. the quran is a book of law how we should live our lives. its not a science textbook.

Does not Quran says Jesus son of Mary is one amongst our signs so is there not Asexual bacteria that gives birth without a mate.  Does not Quran speaks about stars and phenomenon of black holes by saying we create and we destroy. I told you its very deep and requires insight. We will admit superiority of Quran with passing time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are some verses in Quran with which one can extrapolate the facts like existence gravitational force & that Earth is spherical in shape. 

It require deep understanding of the established facts in science & words as well as usloob of Quran Al Hakeem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Engineer73 said:

There are some verses in Quran with which one can extrapolate the facts like existence gravitational force & that Earth is spherical in shape. 

It require deep understanding of the established facts in science & words as well as usloob of Quran Al Hakeem.

Can you bring those and explain exactly from the Arabic how those verses prove that?

 

4 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

each of these can be explained away easily though. the quran doesnt anywhere specifically say "the earth is flat like a frisbee" neither does it say "the earth is a globe". with things like the word "Ard" - we have to look at things like tafsir and context. it cant be used as proof that the earth is flat, any more than if I stood in a field and said "the field is flat" 

can you get any such tafseer, because according the the hadiths we have earth is like a ring in a desert laying upon a marine creature. I believe I posted those hadiths on "Cosmology in Islam". After all tafsir is based on the interpretation of the Prophet & Imams.

From Quran and Ahl Bayt there is zero evidence of spherical yet only evidence of flat with mountains as pegs so it won't move.

 

I can guarantee that if we weren't exposed to our educational and media curriculums we would have no doubt about the model described in all world religions including ours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, 313 Seeker said:

I can guarantee that if we weren't exposed to our educational and media curriculums we would have no doubt about the model described in all world religions including ours.

role play time. 

imagine you stood on a giant disk. not as big as the earth, but lets say as big enough that you could make out the edges on the distance. 

pick any random point within that disk, and look around you at the edges. 

unless you are stood right in the dead middle of the disk, all around you, the edges of the disk would all be different distances away from you. 

so for example if I stood near the edge, the edge of the disk would be near to me on one side, but far away from me on the opposite side. 

why is it, that no matter where you stand on earth, the horizon is always the same distance away from you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

role play time. 

imagine you stood on a giant disk. not as big as the earth, but lets say as big enough that you could make out the edges on the distance. 

pick any random point within that disk, and look around you at the edges. 

unless you are stood right in the dead middle of the disk, all around you, the edges of the disk would all be different distances away from you. 

so for example if I stood near the edge, the edge of the disk would be near to me on one side, but far away from me on the opposite side. 

why is it, that no matter where you stand on earth, the horizon is always the same distance away from you?

We can never see the edge because we never go close enough. The distance which we see along the horizon is limited by how far the light can travel through the particles in the air and water vapor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

We can never see the edge because we never go close enough. The distance which we see along the horizon is limited by how far the light can travel through the particles in the air and water vapor.

This was recorded live, look at the curvature of the earth.

 

Space shuttle launch viewed from airplane, notice how the space shuttle is turning as it keeps going up, and not in a straight line.

 

Camera attached onto space shuttle as it enters space:

 

 

Regular amateurs send a rocket to space with a camera attached, you can see the curvature of earth.

 

 

dude I can't believe I'm arguing with someone about this. I don't want to be rude to you, but why are you thinking like this?? What's wrong with you? This isn't 300 B.C caveman era to think our world is flat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Hassan Y

No need to argue.

OK, first video is Felix Baumgartners jump. What you see below him is a small area of Arizona I believe. If the earth was this curved, then the planet would be not even the size Arizona itself. Ever heard of fisheye lenses?

Please just look at this angle and tell me that you believe this to be such a big part of earth. And look at the river in comparison.

 

_63487378_stf_usa_baum_jn_1010.thumb.jpg.8386865d15686ef4efafe0dfeb8f2cb9.jpg

hence the inconsistencies in other pictures ..

images.jpeg.f5aaada77b3031ffe97f1a1dfdf0a2df.jpeg

 

looks more flat here doesn't it?

 

-- I don't understand how the other videos prove the shape of earth, but anyway good luck researching on your own a bit. in sha Allah

 

All the best!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/7/2017 at 3:15 PM, 313 Seeker said:

Can you bring those and explain exactly from the Arabic how those verses prove that?

Sure, but one by one :)

Surah Al-Rahman, Verse 33:
يَا مَعْشَرَ الْجِنِّ وَالْإِنسِ إِنِ اسْتَطَعْتُمْ أَن تَنفُذُوا مِنْ أَقْطَارِ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ فَانفُذُوا لَا تَنفُذُونَ إِلَّا بِسُلْطَانٍ

O assembly of the jinn and the men! If you are able to pass through the regions of the heavens and the Earth, then pass through; you cannot pass through but with authority.
(English - Shakir)

The Arabic word "aqtaar" & "sultan" here in this verse are very important. Aqtaar indicates boundaries of heaven & Earth while sultan means force, authority. Just look at the way how Allah is addressing here:

1) "O assembly of jinn o ins if you have the capacity to pass through the boundaries of heavens & Earth, then pass". 

The capacity is there, we know for sure about the jinns, and for ins, we are watching them sitting in international space station, landing on the moon, sending rockets beyond the gravitational pull of Earth. If the capacity (istita'at) would not be there, Allah would have said "you cannever pass through". Now lets move on with the verse:

2) You cannot pass through but with authority. (This means you have to conquer the force which is keeping us on Earth I.e., gravity, by applying force greater than the force of gravity.

The verses of this chapter from 30th to 37 are very important and tells us that how near we are from Qiyamah.

Now in support of the meaning of Arabic word "Aqtaar", I would like to present here another verse as under:

Surah Al-Ahzab, Verse 14:

وَلَوْ دُخِلَتْ عَلَيْهِم مِّنْ أَقْطَارِهَا ثُمَّ سُئِلُوا الْفِتْنَةَ لَآتَوْهَا وَمَا تَلَبَّثُوا بِهَا إِلَّا يَسِيرًا

And if an entry were made upon them from the outlying parts of it, then they were asked to wage war, they would certainly have done it, and they would not have stayed in it but a little while.

(English - Shakir)

Extrapolating this fact alone I.e., existence of gravitational force  (referred as Sultan in the verse 33) and the fact that we have the "capacity" to pass through the regions of heavens and Earth, itself collapses the flat Earth idea and all other assertions which flat Earth supporters present or their denials of scientific facts discovered by humans.

I would hope that  others just have a look to the extrapolated meanings & share their views with me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

Can you bring those and explain exactly from the Arabic how those verses prove that?

 

can you get any such tafseer, because according the the hadiths we have earth is like a ring in a desert laying upon a marine creature. I believe I posted those hadiths on "Cosmology in Islam". After all tafsir is based on the interpretation of the Prophet & Imams.

From Quran and Ahl Bayt there is zero evidence of spherical yet only evidence of flat with mountains as pegs so it won't move.

 

I can guarantee that if we weren't exposed to our educational and media curriculums we would have no doubt about the model described in all world religions including ours.

Lolz, where Imam speak about flatness of land, it referred to land and geology and not cosmology. Imams explained how land is flat for the reason that we may balance our feet and walk easily. And it is proved in Geology that mountains are inserted within lands due to movement of plates and they make land unshakeable.

Globe of the earth belongs to cosmology and Astrology and Imam Sadiq a.s has spoke about rotation of earth around its axis and revolution around sun and When Galileo came across such theory he refuted it and preferred Greek theory but at last Imam al Sadiq a.s theory was found accurate and Galileo and Greek failed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@313 Seeker,

Further explanation of "Capacity or Ability" (Istita'at) of Jinn o Ins:

I have mentioned in my earlier post that for jinns we are sure that they have the ability to pass through the regions of heaven & earth, now here is the Quranic daleel in support of my post:

37: 10) إِلَّا مَنْ خَطِفَ الْخَطْفَةَ فَأَتْبَعَهُ شِهَابٌ ثَاقِبٌ  

(Except him who snatches off but once, then there follows him a brightly shining flame)

Another verse which could used to as pointing to gravity is this:

13:2) اللّهُ الَّذِي رَفَعَ السَّمَاوَاتِ بِغَيْرِ عَمَدٍ تَرَوْنَهَا

(Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that you see)

What can be understood as invisible pillars here? Except the gravity!



 

 

 

Edited by Engineer73

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@313 Seeker,

Here are the verses of Quran which invites us to reflect, to ponder in the creation:

"Will they not then consider the Camels, how they are created? And the heaven, how it is reared aloft? And the mountains, how they are firmly fixed? And the earth, how it is made a vast expanse? (88:17-20)

Do you not have the knowledge or capacity to figure out how possibly all this happened?

Do you not see the verse 39:5 in Quran, mentioning how Allah overlaps the night over the day & day over the night?

خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ بِالْحَقِّ يُكَوِّرُ اللَّيْلَ عَلَى النَّهَارِ وَيُكَوِّرُ النَّهَارَ عَلَى اللَّيْلِ وَسَخَّرَ الشَّمْسَ وَالْقَمَرَ كُلٌّ يَجْرِي لِأَجَلٍ مُسَمًّى أَلَا هُوَ الْعَزِيزُ الْغَفَّارُ 

The word "Yukawwar" in Arabic is derived from Kurra, which clearly means sphere or ball. Arab’s only favorite sport Football in Arabic is called as “Kurrat-ul-qadam” ( کرةالقدم). Not just this, but the description of overlapping of the day after night and night after day proves the spherical shape and it’s rotation too. Otherwise, instead of overlapping a sudden day and sudden night would’ve happened, had the earth’s surface been flat.

:) I think this is sufficient.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sindbad05 said:

Lolz, where Imam speak about flatness of land, it referred to land and geology and not cosmology. Imams explained how land is flat for the reason that we may balance our feet and walk easily. And it is proved in Geology that mountains are inserted within lands due to movement of plates and they make land unshakeable.

Globe of the earth belongs to cosmology and Astrology and Imam Sadiq a.s has spoke about rotation of earth around its axis and revolution around sun and When Galileo came across such theory he refuted it and preferred Greek theory but at last Imam al Sadiq a.s theory was found accurate and Galileo and Greek failed. 

Bring evidence of this. Where are the hadiths?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Engineer73

- There is no proof whatsoever that Sulta in this case or any other case is related to the theory of gravity as we know it. Even from all the translations in the world today there is no a single person who interprets it this way. In any case, if you want to prove a point, you either need to prove it from other parts of the quran or ahlulbayt. I see neither here.  

- The same counts with the argument of us being able to cross the boundaries of heavens. I see no correlation or restriction of this in relation to the shape of the earth. If earth is flat, why wouldn't we be able to cross if God wills it? Again no proof from Quran or ahlulbayt on shape of earth here.

 

referring to your third point in the second post:

 

- yes it does say yukawar and yes kora in modern arabic is a ball. In any case it refers to going round. However, if you read on in the same verse, it refers to objects that always move in the Quran, namely the sun and moon. They 'run' or 'swim' in their circular motion that corresponds with the flat earth theory, while the earth is always referred to as stable and not moving - other than judgment day and the likes, when heavens and earth are folded together.

 

Sorry, but this argument also doesn't hold, because as above:

1- the rest of the quran doesn't agree with you, but with me (in terms of stationary earth and moving sun which is responsible for day and night a.k.a. النَّهَارَ عَلَى اللَّيْلِ)

2 - no hadiths brother! 

 

result: no proof from Allah or Prophet/Ahl Bayt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

If earth is flat, why wouldn't we be able to cross if God wills it? Again no proof from Quran or ahlulbayt on shape of earth here

Rockets goes to space by God's will? Humans goes into space by God's will? Human send animals to space by God's will? Who has set up the factories where humans belonging to different nations & races making them & sending them up whenever they want. Are you also flattening our God given free will here?

:) In case of flat earth model, you have to deny gravity at every cost. Because gravity is what which refutes you scientifically, apart from all other observations. To deny gravity, flat earth proponents assert that the earth is constantly going upwards at the rate of 9.8m/s that is why anything which you throw upwards not actually comes down because of gravity, rather the upward motion of earth gets to it. LOL

Gravity is what which is mentioned as invisible pillars in 13:2, and it is also referred in 55:33 too.

 

53 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

Sorry, but this argument also doesn't hold, because as above:

1- the rest of the quran doesn't agree with you, but with me (in terms of stationary earth and moving sun which is responsible for day and night a.k.a. النَّهَارَ عَلَى اللَّيْلِ)

2 - no hadiths brother! 

:) You want me to produce verses & hadith for the fact which I am watching & observing in my daily life? Although I have presented the verses, I don't have access to all the ahadith of Masoomeen (a.s) therefore, here is the answer for you:

 أَفَتُمَارُونَهُ عَلَى مَا يَرَى

(What! do you then dispute with him as to what he saw?)

Why not you research more, If the Earth is flat like a disk, how much thickness it has on its sides? If it is flat, it is round or square or what shape it has? Does the space exist out there? Are the Sun & the Moon & rest of Planets flat? Are there any world in the downward side of the flat Earth, well you can check it out by going there? You just need a rope & some other mountain climbing equipment to fall down from the edge of the earth & see what is beneath it :D.

How ridiculous is this!

 

Edited by Engineer73

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About Allah's creation

He originated the creation without any example which He could follow and without any specimen prepared by any known creator that was before Him. He showed us the realm of His Might, and such wonders which speak of His Wisdom. The confession of the created things that their existence owes itself to Him made us realise that argument has been furnished about knowing Him (so that there is no excuse against it). The signs of His creative power and standard of His wisdom are fixed in the wonderful things He has created. Whatever He has created is an argument in His favour and a guide towards Him. Even a silent thing is a guide towards Him as though it speaks, and its guidance towards the Creator is clear.

الَّذِي ابْتَدَعَ الْخَلْقَ عَلَى غَيْرِ مِثَال امْتَثَلَهُ، وَلاَ مِقْدَار احْتَذَى عَلَيْهِ، مِنْ خَالِق مَعْبُود كَانَ قَبْلَهُ، وَأَرَانَا مِنْ مَلَكُوتِ قُدْرَتِهِ، وَعَجَائِبِ مَا نَطَقَتْ بِهِ آثارُ حِكْمَتِهِ، وَاعْتِرَافِ الْحَاجَةِ مِنَ الْخَلْقِ إِلَى أَنْ يُقِيمَهَا بِمِسَاكِ قُوَّتِهِ، مَا دَلَّنا بِاضْطِرَارِ قِيَامِ الْحُجَّةِ لَهُ عَلَى مَعْرِفَتِهِ، وَظَهَرَتِ الْبَدَائِعُ الَّتِي أحْدَثَها آثَارُ صَنْعَتِهِ، وَأَعْلاَمُ حِكْمَتِهِ، فَصَارَ كُلُّ مَا خَلَقَ حُجَّةً لَهُ وَدَلِيلاً عَلَيْهِ، وَإِنْ كَانَ خَلْقاً صَامِتاً، فَحُجَّتُهُ بِالتَّدْبير نَاطِقَةٌ، وَدَلاَلَتُهُ عَلَى الْمُبْدِعِ قَائِمَةٌ.

(Nehjul Balagha, Sermon 91.)



 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

We can never see the edge because we never go close enough. The distance which we see along the horizon is limited by how far the light can travel through the particles in the air and water vapor.

not even with binoculars/ a telescope?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gravity is proof that the Earth is approximately spherical. Anyone who wishes to carry the flat earth cult's teachings into educated populations must come up with an alternate explanation of gravity which will supersede Newton's approximations. Until flat earth cultists can explain gravity, their beliefs will make no sense.

Remember, Newton calculated that the action of gravity is through the center of mass. How is gravity the same over all Earth if earth is a plate, disc, dome, or whatever other shape besides approximately sphere? It should be strongest at the center and quite weak on the edges. 

The Quran doesn't specify the shape of the Earth. It isn't relevant to belief. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Engineer73

 

After you posted this:

Quote

Extrapolating this fact alone i.e., existence of gravitational force  (referred as Sultan in the verse 33)

and were unable to back up how you came up with this supposed 'fact', I will not deal with you anymore. If you can't prove from any translator or hadith from maaasumeen, your are committing a big crime.

Your own personal observations do not give you the right to invent new meanings to Arabic words in the Quran!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

not even with binoculars/ a telescope?

Actually there are many videos that show how boats that disappear from sight over the horizon can be seen using binoculars, proving again that it's not the effect of roundness. But even with binoculars it doesn't see that much further due to particles in the air, that become more dense as you approach the earth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, notme said:

Gravity is proof that the Earth is approximately spherical. Anyone who wishes to carry the flat earth cult's teachings into educated populations must come up with an alternate explanation of gravity which will supersede Newton's approximations. Until flat earth cultists can explain gravity, their beliefs will make no sense.

Remember, Newton calculated that the action of gravity is through the center of mass. How is gravity the same over all Earth if earth is a plate, disc, dome, or whatever other shape besides approximately sphere? It should be strongest at the center and quite weak on the edges. 

The Quran doesn't specify the shape of the Earth. It isn't relevant to belief. 

 

 

 

Referring to me as cultist is rude and how can debating the shape of a physical object label me as flat earth cult? It is especially disappointing coming from an Admin who should be making sure that people respect each other and are free to express their opinions freely!

 

Quote

Anyone who wishes to carry the flat earth cult's teachings into educated populations must come up with an alternate explanation of gravity which will supersede Newton's approximations.

1- The modern theory of gravity ( and Newton - is he Maasum? ) can be wrong! There are people saying that gravity is actually result of charge, like hair sticking to a rubbed balloon. Is the theory of gravity clearly written in the quran that we may not dare challenge it? 

 

Quote

The Quran doesn't specify the shape of the Earth.

2 - Coming up with sweeping conclusions about what Quran talks about is quite a big statement for somebody who does not even address a single verse to start with. I have presented many verses that indicate the shape. I have shared hadiths too. 

 

Quote

It isn't relevant to belief. 

3 - Knowing the truth about Cosmology is not important to belief?

How did you come to that conclusion. How can knowing the truth about heavens and earth and reflecting on it (as per Quran) not be of help? 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

Actually there are many videos that show how boats that disappear from sight over the horizon can be seen using binoculars, proving again that it's not the effect of roundness. But even with binoculars it doesn't see that much further due to particles in the air, that become more dense as you approach the earth.

this is simply your lack of understanding of optics.

our eyesight has a limit to where we can distinguish two points as separate, so to us, an object has "dissapeared" because we cannot see it any more. binoculars allow us to see further, and I assure you, if you were to follow a boat long enough with binoculars, it would indeed drop over the horizon. different people will see the boat dissapear based on how strong their eyesight is

even the ancient greeks knew that the earth was a sphere, because they witnessed that boats drop over the horizon bottom upwards. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, DigitalUmmah said:

this is simply your lack of understanding of optics.

our eyesight has a limit to where we can distinguish two points as separate, so to us, an object has "dissapeared" because we cannot see it any more. binoculars allow us to see further, and I assure you, if you were to follow a boat long enough with binoculars, it would indeed drop over the horizon. different people will see the boat dissapear based on how strong their eyesight is

even the ancient greeks knew that the earth was a sphere, because they witnessed that boats drop over the horizon bottom upwards. 

 

 

What ancient greeks, which is a very vague term and huge span of time did or did not believe is not of importance without evidence from your side.

I told you there is evidence and how you can find it. Please stick to evidence. We are not here to express poetry or our own random opinions. We now know that your opinion is different than mine. Let us see and take it deeper by bringing substance to the conversation. Many thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, so change the word "cult" to "movement" and "cultists" to "believers". Since you've responded and quoted I can't change it. My point remains.

Science is always subject to change. When you produce a better explanation which works to predict phenomena, the old theories must be abandoned and new ones adopted. Newton's fallibility is irrelevant. Part of Newton's principles have already been disproven by Einstein, who was in turn partially disproven. As we learn, we have to change our views. Otherwise we're just dumb animals. 

Regarding the shape of the Earth being relevant to belief: if the Earth is proven to be approximately spherical, will this shatter your belief in Islam? Most of us base our faith on much bigger things. If the Earth is proven to be flat and the universe revolves around it, I will still be Muslim. My faith isn't founded on the shape of the Earth. Is yours? It seems a very weak foundation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@notme

Quote

Newton's fallibility is irrelevant.

No it's not. I don't "have to" disprove this man's theories to prove my point. 

 

I only started believing the earth is flat recently, but it didn't make a difference in my faith, except that it made me feel more in touch with reality and have a better perspective. All-in-all i feel a promotion in my Islam, just like when I discovered the truth about the ahl bayt and the 'friends' of prophet scam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, 313 Seeker said:

@Engineer73

 

After you posted this:

and were unable to back up how you came up with this supposed 'fact', I will not deal with you anymore. If you can't prove from any translator or hadith from maaasumeen, your are committing a big crime.

Your own personal observations do not give you the right to invent new meanings to Arabic words in the Quran!

:) To understand a verse or a phenomena or even an argument, one needs to use common sense at the very first place. Try & learn to use that gift given to you brother & you will understand In-sha Allah.

"O company of Jinn o Ins if you have the capacity, the capability to pass through the regions of heavens and earth then pass through"

This is said by Allah who said this:

37: 10) إِلَّا مَنْ خَطِفَ الْخَطْفَةَ فَأَتْبَعَهُ شِهَابٌ ثَاقِبٌ  

(Except him who snatches off but once, then there follows him a brightly shining flame)

This verse is for shaiyateen & shihabun thaqib can be seen with naked eyes in space.

Who are shaiyateen? They can be from jinn & the ins. So this indicates the capacity or capability for the jinn & the ins to go in outer space is present.

Now back to 55:33, the verse then says "you cannot pass through but with authority".

What is meant by authority here? Does Allah grants permission or some sort of visa to jinn & ins who wants to visit outerspace? Does the verse says that you cannot pass through but with Our given authority?

You can simply see how rockets & missiles go in outer space. Rockets takes humans and animals to outerspace. They use fuel to produce force (thrust), much greater than the gravity. (In a rocket engine, stored fuel and stored oxidizer are ignited in a combustion chamber. The combustion produces great amounts of exhaust gas at high temperature and pressure. The hot exhaust is passed through a nozzle which accelerates the flow. Thrust is produced according to Newton's third law of motion.)

So what does that means? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, 313 Seeker said:

@notme

No it's not. I don't "have to" disprove this man's theories to prove my point. 

No, you don't have to disprove Newton to not believe his calculations, but if you want to convince others, you're going to need to come up with a better theory. Nobody is going to be convinced by simply saying "no, it's not!" without any evidence.

And your second paragraph supports my assertion that the shape of Earth is not relevant to belief. Thanks for acknowledging that. 

Furthermore, of course you only became a flat earth believer recently! It's a very new movement, started in 2009 and went public in 2013 if I remember correctly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

What ancient greeks, which is a very vague term and huge span of time did or did not believe is not of importance without evidence from your side.

an ancient greek called Eratosthenes, who was born around 280BC. 

an explanation of his experiment which proved the earth is round can be found here:

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2011/09/21/who-discovered-the-earth-is-ro/ 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...