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In the Name of God بسم الله

Why I support Wilayat El Fakih

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@kirtc

I am slowly learning about Wilayah al Faqih but right now, I am still fifty-fifty on it, I notice that there are some people who are WF and they feel a need to insult those aren't in a rabid way,which in turn brings out the rabid anti WF-ers and the cycle repeats itself again in a vicious cycle.

The blood spilt defending the shrines in Syria is not comparable  no doubt with the blood spilt doing qama\zanjeer and other rituals of questionable origin.

But like Engineer said,where it goes wrong is when you try to force your understanding of WF upon others who may not share your views.

By Allah, I hope that I am not one of those "idiots" that you are complaining of, because I don't remember have done of these moronic things that you seen people do. 

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar
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43 minutes ago, kirtc said:

I tell you may Allah forgive for your idiocy. And while WF is trying to save the SHIA and SUPPORT them from the oppressive regimes, you are only making more enemies. No one is asking you to fight! or shed blood. But at least support your brothers morally who are protecting your own people!

One can disagree with you here, brother. Everyone needs FUQAHA, it becomes wajib for us to ask, the matters where we have no knowledge from those "who knows". Islam don't want us to live the life of ignorance. However, I am not agreed at all with the Iranian model of WF, even then I have a deep respect & positive view for Ayatullah Khamenei and other Iranian fuqaha. I support them morally as well as materially.

I also disagree with people when they trying to impose their ideology & mode of understanding of WF on others. I understand that every wilayat, other than the Wilayat of Allah, Prophet & Imams, have some limitations and boundaries. We have to keep that in mind Brother. 

Edited by Engineer73
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I have not studied WF but I do support any movement which aims at strengthening and UNITING shia muslims under one banner.

Whatever you may think about Iran or WF, surely you understand that together we stand a chance, the Iranian government IS the back bone of the shia strength in the world today, there is not one other single nation or government which publicly confesses to shiism and has such power and funds as the Iranian government today.

I believe that when our ImamÚÌøá Çááøå ÝÑÌå ÇáÔÑíÝ returns he will take the reins over and he will be met by an army and infrastructure at his disposal which are ready to fight for him.

I urge every single shia to put your differences aside and support the future army of our ImamÚÌøá Çááøå ÝÑÌå ÇáÔÑíÝ.

WF or no WF - support a group of shias aiming to strengthening us and fighting our oppressors and who are laying the ground for our ImamsÚÌøá Çááøå ÝÑÌå ÇáÔÑíÝ return.

Understand - it is not a question of nationality or culture or personal pride.

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17 minutes ago, Engineer73 said:

One can disagree with you here, brother. Everyone needs FUQAHA, it becomes wajib for us to ask, the matters where we have no knowledge from those "who knows". Islam don't want us to live the life of ignorance. However, I am not agreed at all with the Iranian model of WF, even then I have a deep respect & positive view for Ayatullah Khamenei and other Iranian fuqaha. I support them morally as well as materially.

I also disagree with people when they trying to impose their ideology & mode of understanding of WF on others. I understand that every wilayat, other than the Wilayat of Allah, Prophet & Imams, have some limitations and boundaries. We have to keep that in mind Brother. 

My point is no one is imposing it on anyone. They never did. If WF wanted to, it can do a military take over with in minutes. If hizbullah wanted to, they would take over Lebanon within minutes. But when people say WF is oppressive, that is exactly the type of stuff zionists will use against them . We should have a constructive criticism if there are issues, and these issues should come as an ally trying to help, not as an enemy trying to discredit the movement . If you knew how much they helped Lebanon, Iraq, Syria and Yemen.. you would support them too.

Edited by kirtc
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@kirtc 

What about those people who do not believe in WF, supports tatbir, religiously follow their own maraja as well as respect other marajas including Ayatullah Khamenei and support Iranian government's stance towards world order. 

Edited by Lover of Ahlulbait (ams)
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39 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

By Allah, I hope that I am not one of those "idiots" that you are complaining of, because I don't remember have done of these moronic things that you seen people do.

No bro ofcourse not, my problem is not what they do, it is that they criticize WF because of this issue, while ignoring the bigger picture.

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9 minutes ago, kirtc said:

1. We should have a constructive criticism if there are issues, and these issues should come as an ally trying to help, not as an enemy trying to discredit the movement .

2. If you knew how much they helped Lebanon, Iraq, Syria and Yemen.. you would not do that.

1. Agreed 100%
2. I know that brother, and I advise you to add Pakistan & India in that list. Iran is helping the Shia in Pakistan & India as well & they're helping from a very long time e.g., Qazi Noorullah Shustari.

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1 minute ago, kirtc said:

No bro ofcourse not, my problem is not what they do, it is that they criticize WF because of this issue, while ignoring the bigger picture.

Perhaps they are afraid of something they don't understand? Perhaps culture is more important to them and think WF threatens their way of life? I really don't know.

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5 minutes ago, Engineer73 said:

1. Agreed 100%
2. I know that brother, and I advise you to add Pakistan & India in that list. Iran is helping the Shia in Pakistan & India as well & they're helping from a very long time e.g., Qazi Noorullah Shustari.

I did not know that. Thanks bro. 

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11 minutes ago, Lover of Ahlulbait (ams) said:

@kirtc 

What about those people who do not believe in WF, supports tatbir, religiously follow their own maraja as well as respect other marajas including Ayatullah Khamenei and support Iranian government's stance towards world order. 

That's great. As long as they dont do a service to zionism its great. I think the main problem is, some people don't see Zionism as an enemy.

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20 minutes ago, kirtc said:

That's great. As long as they dont do a service to zionism its great. I think the main problem is, some people don't see Zionism as an enemy.

Know that almost all the shias whether believing in WF or not respects every maraja and shia government. Things escalate when many WFers on and off SC consider themselves superior and start shelling their ideologies on other. They literally impose what they think on others.  (eg.I was told that you aren't a shia if you do not believe in WF.. Lol) Even if someone does a constructive criticism, as you say, they took that as an offence and defend as if the other shia guy is his enemy.

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WF is a quite beneficial but localized concept. Outside the borders of influence of the Irani Faqih the concept becomes pretty useless / too inefficient sd the Faqih cant/doesnt be of much use elsewhere nor do they consider other places when shaping their localized policies.

Edited by Darth Vader
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2 hours ago, kirtc said:

But do I defend it if it is being criticized? no. BUT if it is being criticized by a SHIA, who thinks tatbir and lanat are more important. Then this drives me insane.

So you have the courage to go against your own brothers in faith, but you don't mind criticism from non-Shias? Shame on you.

2 hours ago, kirtc said:

Simply because they dont allow these cavemen to cut their heads open and make islam look bad, or not allowed to curse omar out loud, as if ayt.Khomeini and ayt.khamanei love omar and aisha.

How dare you refer to your own brothers as 'cavemen'! These people do bloodletting out of respect for Imam Hussein (as).

With people like you, it is not surprising that WFers are criticised a lot, because they clearly lack basic akhlaaq (manners) when it comes to dealing with fellow Shias, but they are very respectful and humble with other sects instead.

Have you ever seen a person refer to Sayed Khamenei as a nasibi for making chess halal, even though it is explicitly haram in our hadith?  No!

The reason for this, is that we are tolerant to other scholars of the religion.

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11 minutes ago, emceemo40 said:

So you have the courage to go against your own brothers in faith, but you don't mind criticism from non-Shias? Shame on you.

Brother, dont be so rude and emotional. Here is what brother kirtc said in his next comment:

2 hours ago, kirtc said:

We should have a constructive criticism if there are issues, and these issues should come as an ally trying to help, not as an enemy trying to discredit the movement .

It is quite balanced & reasonable statement. 

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19 minutes ago, Engineer73 said:

It is quite balanced & reasonable statement. 

Sorry, I didn't spot that at first.

But I still don't think its nice to refer to others Muslims as 'cavemen', am I right?

Edited by emceemo40
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25 minutes ago, emceemo40 said:

These people do bloodletting out of respect for Imam Hussein (as).

Well this is debatable. How many do it out of love? And how many do it to put on a show? With all due respect man, many I've met will do tatbir on Ashura, will sharpen their blades inside the mosque, they'll try to make it obvious to people that they are going to do tatbir. And then if anything, the sacrifice of imam Hussein wasn't just so that you could do tatbir and then after that, it's done until the next year. I've literally noticed after tatbir is over, people shaking hands wishing each other happy new year (this was a few years ago when Muharram was in January), so how genuine were they to begin with? I don't have issues with people doing tatbir out of genuine love for imam Hussein but I think it should be done in private not out in the open where people can use it as a propaganda tool to smear Shias. We also have a responsibility to invite people to shiism through our actions and if this drives them away, should we not avoid doing it at least out in the open? 

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50 minutes ago, emceemo40 said:

1.How dare you refer to your own brothers as 'cavemen'! These people do bloodletting out of respect for Imam Hussein (as).

2. With people like you, it is not surprising that WFers are criticised a lot, because they clearly lack basic akhlaaq (manners) when it comes to dealing with fellow Shias, but they are very respectful and humble with other sects instead.

3.Have you ever seen a person refer to Sayed Khamenei as a nasibi for making chess halal, even though it is explicitly haram in our hadith?  No!

4.The reason for this, is that we are tolerant to other scholars of the religion.

Clean up on isle ignorance 

me: ok on it!

1.no a lot of them show off I always felt that even before learning about the tatbir debate. Also they should have a little bit of wisdom not practice something that damages the image of Shiism.

2.No,no,and No. You tatbir crowds are the ones that write the latmiyahs keep your fatwas to yourself and insult the maraji that ban your tatbir and zanjir. Have you even seen the guys that agree with your idealogy ei.. yasir habib, mujtaba shirazi. These people have  Akhlaq according to you? Maybe if you stopped criticizing our marja for pretty much every breath he takes then there will be no need to defend him.

3. Your really ignorant dude honestly. You lack knowledge on many of the scholarly sciences to know if something is halal or not. Look at Sistani notice he makes chess haram as wajib ihtiyat which basically means sistani is not sure but just to be careful he says avoid so "it's cLEARLY NOT HARAM" cause if it was sistani would have a fatwa on it not a precaution stance that let's you move to the next most knowledgeable who in this case if he says it's halal even sistani then allows it according to his fatwas on taqlid. So [Edited out] Also many other maraji say it's halal check yusuf saini, fazel lankarani, and others. 

4.Not really you literally just accused Khamenei(ha) along with the many other maraji that make chess halal of not having knowledge of Hadith sciences and making the haram halal which is basically calling all of them not knowledgeable and not reightouis for making haram halal which is something only a person without a good soul would do. That's what you call RESPECT OTHER SCHOLARS! Quit saying lies please. Also you don't respect other religions if you did stop publicly cursing the personalities revered by ahlul sunnah cause that's not respectful. So you aren't respectful.

Edited by starlight
Watch your language
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47 minutes ago, Al Hadi said:

4.Not really you literally just accused Khamenei(ha) along with the many other maraji that make chess halal of not having knowledge of Hadith sciences and making the haram halal which is basically calling all of them not knowledgeable and not reightouis for making haram halal which is something only a person without a good soul would do. That's what you call RESPECT OTHER SCHOLARS! Quit saying lies please. Also you don't respect other religions if you did stop publicly cursing the personalities revered by ahlul sunnah cause that's not respectful. So you aren't respectful.

And you indirectly ridicule the scholars that allow tatbir, like:

Ayatollah Shirazi, Ayatollah Najafi, Ayatollah Sadiq Rohani, Ayatollah Waheed Khorasani, Ayatollah Fayyadh, and many more.

These are also knowledgeable scholars

 

47 minutes ago, Al Hadi said:

So [Edited out]

The thing which was edited out clearly showed your lack of akhlaaq, so look at yourself first before criticising others.

 

Look at Sistani notice he makes chess haram as wajib ihtiyat which basically means sistani is not sure but just to be careful he says avoid so "it's cLEARLY NOT HARAM" cause if it was sistani would have a fatwa on it not a precaution stance that let's you move to the next most knowledgeable who in this case if he says it's halal even sistani then allows it according to his fatwas on taqlid.

Well based on what I have read on Sayed Sistani's official website, you are the ignorant one and a liar.

Question: Some people play with gambling instruments other than chess and backgammon for enjoyment and without placing a bet.
Answer: [It is prohibited to play with all that is considered a gambling instrument even without placing a bet].
 
2Question: What is the ruling on playing chess by using the customary pieces? Is the ruling any different in the case where the game is played by computer which employs symbols and shapes instead of the customary pieces?
Answer: Playing it (chess) is absolutely forbidden even without placing a bet. And there is no difference in this, whether it is (played) with customary pieces or by computer.
 
3Question: (Is it permissible) to play chess and backgammon without placing a bet?
Answer: It is not permissible to play them.
 
4Question: What is the ruling on playing chess using the commonly known equipment? Is the ruling different if the play is conducted on a computer, using symbols?
Answer: Playing chess is haraam under any circumstances, even though betting is not used. There is no difference between the two methods of playing chess.
Edited by emceemo40
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One can understand the reason of difference in opinions between FUQAHA, Why are people taking those differences to the streets? 

You follow the one whose rulings satisfies your intellect. No need to force your choice on others & no need to create fitnah, cautious.

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Come on brothers, it is one thing to have difference of opinions, another to insult each other because of it.

As far as blood letting goes, to my opinion, you do not need to be a marja nor in need of a marja to understand that it is clearly an unislamic, uncivilized and irrational practice.

Anyways, this discussion is about WF and not tatbir.

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35 minutes ago, repenter said:

The problem is that more often than not its not constructive criticism but smug comments without actually thinking what they are saying. When WF and its supporters have given so much blood(and yes, most people don't know how much blood) and sacrificed so much to keep the sanctuaries of Ahlulbayt safe, to keep shias from getting murdered by ISIS, from keeping shias being slaughtered by Zionists, and things such as Saudi not being more vile than they already are, and same with Bahrain. You can't expect them to sit back and watch people tarnish it with really unthoughtful comments. And i've said this before, and it's up to the individual to believe it or not, but WF supporters have had long experience with criticism and we know more often than not when its genuine and for the purpose of learning and dialog vs when its smug and sleazy. 

You are again at it. You saw every shaheed's heart to know if he's believing in WF of Ayatullah Khamenei.

When you say, most of the time it's smug comments and not constructive criticism for WF then you should also ponder that pro-tatbir people are name-called and made fun day in and day out. Try and be partial now. 

Only repenter and other WFers have experience and basirah to go through every dimensions of matter while others are dork. Right. 

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5 minutes ago, Engineer73 said:

One can understand the reason of difference in opinions between FUQAHA, Why are people taking those differences to the streets? 

You follow the one whose rulings satisfies your intellect. No need to force your choice on others & no need to create fitnah, cautious.

It's that simple brother but then... My maraja is superior.. Comes in. 

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7 minutes ago, Lover of Ahlulbait (ams) said:

You are again at it. You saw every shaheed's heart to know if he's believing in WF of Ayatullah Khamenei

In Lebanon at least, the tatbiris are haraket amal... these guys havent joined a fight since the 80s. They are the most corrupt party in lebanon and are all thugs, This is can proven very easily.. But where are they when the call to protect Sayyeda Zeinab's shrine? nowhere

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54 minutes ago, emceemo40 said:

And you indirectly ridicule the scholars that allow tatbir, like:

Ayatollah Shirazi, Ayatollah Najafi, Ayatollah Sadiq Rohani, Ayatollah Waheed Khorasani, Ayatollah Fayyadh, and many more.

These are also knowledgeable scholars

 

The thing which was edited out clearly showed your lack of akhlaaq, so look at yourself first before criticising others.

 

Well based on what I have read on Sayed Sistani's official website, you are the ignorant one and a liar.

Question: Some people play with gambling instruments other than chess and backgammon for enjoyment and without placing a bet.
Answer: [It is prohibited to play with all that is considered a gambling instrument even without placing a bet].
 
2Question: What is the ruling on playing chess by using the customary pieces? Is the ruling any different in the case where the game is played by computer which employs symbols and shapes instead of the customary pieces?
Answer: Playing it (chess) is absolutely forbidden even without placing a bet. And there is no difference in this, whether it is (played) with customary pieces or by computer.
 
3Question: (Is it permissible) to play chess and backgammon without placing a bet?
Answer: It is not permissible to play them.
 
4Question: What is the ruling on playing chess using the commonly known equipment? Is the ruling different if the play is conducted on a computer, using symbols?
Answer: Playing chess is haraam under any circumstances, even though betting is not used. There is no difference between the two methods of playing chess.

I am pretty sure he has it haram as a wajib ihtiyat anyways ill send the question in as istiftat. But he does say wajib ihtiyat in regards to it on the internet against a computer look:

It is also harãm to play chess through computerized instrument, if there are two players involved in it. Based on obligatory precaution, one must refrain from it, even if just the computer is the other player.

Regardless many other scholars and maraji make it halal not only Khamenei(ha). You are in no position to judge their fatwas in terms of reliability in relations to hadith.

2. HOw do I indirectly ridicule them. Qoute me on something I said. I never said they don't know what their talking about or its CLEARLY HARAM In our ahadith like you did with chess and Khamenei(ha) if you think  I did I invite you to quote me otherwise you are speaking without knowledge which is why you deserved to be called ignorant.

3. YOu deserved that comment with your behavior and your the one without akhlaq. As I never accused you of being a lair while you on the other hand did. I called you ignorant for making attacks on Khamenei's(ha) knowledge and those other ignorant remarks you made which deserved my remarks.

Edited by Al Hadi
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46 minutes ago, Lover of Ahlulbait (ams) said:

You are again at it. You saw every shaheed's heart to know if he's believing in WF of Ayatullah Khamenei.

When you say, most of the time it's smug comments and not constructive criticism for WF then you should also ponder that pro-tatbir people are name-called and made fun day in and day out. Try and be partial now. 

Only repenter and other WFers have experience and basirah to go through every dimensions of matter while others are dork. Right. 

if they are name called then that is wrong too. And of course i believe WFers have more basirah. Just like others think they have more. I don't see how what i said was wrong, stop being so argumentative.

And no, i never said every shaheed, you are lying like you did last time. I said most, which is a fact if you have the slightest idea on who is fighting in Syria and Iraq, and which groups take on the risky operations. I told you this last time too but you started prancing around the bush like you are now.

I know it's hard for you and others to realize the efforts by WF and its supporters, it's hard to swallow. Which is also the reason why most of the time it's not critisism but uncalled for comments.

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25 minutes ago, Al Hadi said:

It is also harãm to play chess through computerized instrument, if there are two players involved in it. Based on obligatory precaution, one must refrain from it, even if just the computer is the other player.

If you read what Sayed Sistani's website said, it says 'Playing chess is haram under ANY circumstances.'

There is no mention of 'Based on obligatory precaution' like you say,      which means chess is completely, 100 per cent haram (according to Sayed Sistani).

 

25 minutes ago, Al Hadi said:

YOu deserved that comment with your behavior and your the one without akhlaq.

Yeah, well how come none of the things in my comments were edited out by other people, like your comment?

And how come below your comment its says 'Watch your language'?   It is because you said something insulting, without akhlaaq. 

 

 

Why did you tell me to '...'.   Is it because you are the one who heavily lacks knowledge, and can't think of anything else to say but insults?

This is a clear weakness in you and your argument, which you need to find a solution for.

 

 

25 minutes ago, Al Hadi said:

As I never accused you of being a lair while you on the other hand did.

Hah! well look below at this comment of yours directed at me:

 

2 hours ago, Al Hadi said:

Quit saying lies please.

You are lying about yourself which is a bit concerning.

 

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