Forgiveness for backbiting

[The Light]

When you talk about someone between a group or family members, does it need to fulfil certain criteria for it be considered backbiting?

For example: If I talk about someone who's done something or said something which everybody knows, but we only brought it up by just talking about the past events, is this considered backbiting? Or does it need to be a secret that nobody in the group knows about it?

The thing about backbiting is that I think it's one of the worst, cause your good deeds will be erased, if I haven't mistaken, right? And you have to ask the person whom you've backbitten for forgiveness.

So, if I backbite someone, maybe out of haste or temptation, and I instantly, seek forgiveness from AllahÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. Will my good deeds come back or is it gone for sure?

Also, instead of asking for forgiveness from that person, which I've backbitten, can I ask for his/her forgiveness during Salatul-layl and would that be sufficient for me to get even with him/her?

 

[gajarkahalva]

People Whom One Is Allowed To Backbite

مَن يَجوزُ اغتِيابُهُ

The Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå said, ‘Four types of people are such that talking about them behind their backs is not considered backbiting: the immoral person who makes a public display of his immorality; the dishonest leader who, even if you were to be good to would not appreciate you and if you were to be bad to would not forgive you; those who joke about their [and others’] mothers; and one who is a dissenter, who defames my community, and draws his sword against it.’ 

 رسولُ اللهِ‏ِ (صَلَّيَ اللهُ عَلَيهِ وَ آلِهِ): أربَعةٌ لَيست غِيبَتُهُم غِيبَةً: الفاسِقُ المُعلِنُ بِفِسقِهِ، والإمامُ الكَذّابُ إن أحسَنتَ لم يَشكُرْ وإن أسَأتَ لم يَغفِرْ، والمُتَفَكِّهونَ بالاُمَّهاتِ، والخارِجُ عنِ الجَماعَةِ الطاعِنُ على اُمَّتِي الشاهِرُ علَيها بسَيفِهِ. 

 Bihar Al-Anwar, V. 75, P. 261, No. 64 

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People Whom One Is Allowed To Backbite

مَن يَجوزُ اغتِيابُهُ

The Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå said, ‘Until when will you sidestep talking about the impudent person?! Disgrace him [through disclosing his insolent acts] so that people may be on their guard against him.’ 

 رسولُ اللهِ (صَلَّيَ اللهُ عَلَيهِ وَ آلِهِ): حتّى مَتى تَرعَوُونَ عن ذِكرِ الفاجِرِ؟! اِهتِكُوهُ حتّى يَحذَرَهُ الناسُ. 

 Kanz Al-`Ummal, No. 8074 

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The Meaning Of Backbiting

تَفسيرُ الغيبَةِ

The Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå said to Abu Dharr, ‘O Abu Dharr, beware of backbiting, for verily backbiting is worse than adultery…’ [Abu Dharr narrates], I asked, ‘O Prophet of Allah, and what is backbiting?’ to which he replied, ‘Your mentioning something about your fellow brother that he would not like.’ I asked, ‘O Prophet of Allah, and what if the thing mentioned about him was actually true about him?’ so he replied, ‘Know that if you say something about him that is true then you have indeed backbit about him, and if you what you have said is not true, then you have indeed slandered him.’ 

 رسولُ اللهِ‏ِ (صَلَّيَ اللهُ عَلَيهِ وَ آلِهِ) ـ لأبي ذرّ ـ: .... يا أباذرٍّ، إيّاكَ والغِيبَةَ؛ فإنَّ الغِيبَةَ أشَدُّ مِن الزِّنا ... قلتُ: يارسولَ اللّه‏ِ، وما الغِيبَةُ؟ قالَ: ذِكرُكَ أخاكَ بما يَكرَهُ، قلتُ: يارسولَ اللّه‏ِ، فإن كانَ فيهِ ذاكَ الذي يُذكَرُ بهِ ؟ قالَ: اِعلَمْ أ نَّكَ إذا ذَكَرتَهُ بما هو فيهِ فقدِ اغتَبتَهُ، وإذا ذَكَرتَهُ بما ليسَ فيهِ فَقَد بَهَتَّهُ. 

 Bihar Al-Anwar, V. 77, P. 89, No. 3 

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The Penance For Backbiting

كَفّارَةُ الاغتِيابِ

The Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå was asked about the penance for backbiting, to which he replied, ‘You must seek Allah’s forgiveness on behalf of the one you have talked about every time you remember him.’ 

 رسولُ اللهِ‏ِ (صَلَّيَ اللهُ عَلَيهِ وَ آلِهِ) ـ وقد سُئلَ عن كَفّارَةِ الاغتِيابِ ـ: تَستَغفِرُ اللّه‏َ لِمَنِ اغتَبتَهُ كُلَّما ذَكَرتَهُ. 

 Al-Kafi, V. 2, P. 357, No. 4 

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The Penance For Backbiting

كَفّارَةُ الاغتِيابِ

The Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå said, ‘When one of you backbites about his fellow brother, he must seek forgiveness from Allah for that is penance for it.’ 

 رسولُ اللهِ (صَلَّيَ اللهُ عَلَيهِ وَ آلِهِ): إذا اغتابَ أحَدُكُم أخاهُ فلْيَستَغفِرِ اللّه‏َ ؛ فإنَّها كفّارَةٌ لَهُ. 

 Kanz Al-`Ummal, No. 8037 

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[Ali-F]

It is only backbiting if, as you say, people didn't know of X. 

For example, if a girl, say committed adultery, and she told a near person about it, and he knows that this is a very deep secret, but still tells it to other people, then this is backbiting.

However, if the girl say did something which the community knows, then it is not backbiting to tell someone about it. 

It is very important to know the difference. I myself was in doubt about the difference. 

[Hassan-]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

For example: If I talk about someone who's done something or said something which everybody knows, but we only brought it up by just talking about the past events, is this considered backbiting? Or does it need to be a secret that nobody in the group knows about it?

It's backbiting only if your intention is to belittle the individual behind is back, whether the people you are telling know about it or not.

Backbiting (Ghībah) Definition
Backbiting (ghībah) is to talk about a hidden (as recognized by `urf) fault of a Muslim behind their back, provided that it is said intending to belittle the individual or it is recognized as belittling by the `urf (common view).

 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

The thing about backbiting is that I think it's one of the worst, cause your good deeds will be erased, if I haven't mistaken, right?

I don't think so. I've never heard that backbiting erases your sins.

 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

Also, instead of asking for forgiveness from that person, which I've backbitten, can I ask for his/her forgiveness during Salatul-layl and would that be sufficient for me to get even with him/her?

No, asking forgiveness from the individual is a must.

[The Light]

3 minutes ago, Hassan Y said:

I don't think so. I've never heard that backbiting erases your sins

Sorry, I think you misunderstood me. I meant, it erases your good deeds.

Or it could be that your good deeds will be transferred to the one that has been backbitten and their bad deeds will come to you.

[Hassan-]

50 minutes ago, The Light said:

Sorry, I think you misunderstood me. I meant, it erases your good deeds.

Or it could be that your good deeds will be transferred to the one that has been backbitten and their bad deeds will come to you.

Sorry I meant good deeds not sins. Backbiting does not erase your good deeds.

[myouvial]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

Sorry, I think you misunderstood me. I meant, it erases your good deeds.

Or it could be that your good deeds will be transferred to the one that has been backbitten and their bad deeds will come to you.

Yes, i remember from long time ago (during my highschool, almost 40 years ago), in khutbah jum'at prayer. It is about someone who is in real debt because his good deeds have to pay the sins of backbiting. When there is no good deeds (exhausted to pay the bill/the sins of backbiting), then all bad deeds of the one that has been backbiten is transfered to him.

[amirhosein_88]

6 hours ago, The Light said:

When you talk about someone between a group or family members, does it need to fulfil certain criteria for it be considered backbiting?

For example: If I talk about someone who's done something or said something which everybody knows, but we only brought it up by just talking about the past events, is this considered backbiting? Or does it need to be a secret that nobody in the group knows about it?

 

If it is not a secret then it is not backbiting although it might still be Haram under other titles.

 

6 hours ago, The Light said:

The thing about backbiting is that I think it's one of the worst, cause your good deeds will be erased, if I haven't mistaken, right? And you have to ask the person whom you've backbitten for forgiveness.

According to the famous idea, if the backbitten person:

- does not come to know you have backbitten about him then you do not have to ask him for forgiveness; rather it suffices to ask Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì for forgiveness.

- comes to know that you have backbitten about him then if:

* going to him and asking him for forgiveness does not bring more serious problems (Mafsadah) then you have to do that; otherwise, again it suffices to ask Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì for forgiveness.

6 hours ago, The Light said:

So, if I backbite someone, maybe out of haste or temptation, and I instantly, seek forgiveness from AllahÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. Will my good deeds come back or is it gone for sure?

Also, instead of asking for forgiveness from that person, which I've backbitten, can I ask for his/her forgiveness during Salatul-layl and would that be sufficient for me to get even with him/her?

 

Based on the above explanation, if you ask him or Allah for forgiveness then there is no remaining negative consequence. So you will keep all your deeds.

By the way, Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì is Just. So it is not true to assume that by 1 backbiting all your good actions are transferred to the backbitten person! It is proportional.

[Hassan-]

1 hour ago, amirhosein_88 said:

If it is not a secret then it is not backbiting although it might still be Haram under other titles.

Even if it's not a secret, if you're belittling him behind his back that's considered backbiting.

[amirhosein_88]

35 minutes ago, Hassan Y said:

Even if it's not a secret, if you're belittling him behind his back that's considered backbiting.

Question: What is the proper definition of 'backbiting'? Please, give some references from the Quran and Hadith also.

Answer: Backbiting means “speaking ill of a believer in their absence of someone with the purpose of disparaging him, no matter whether the alleged shortcoming was related to his body, lineage, behaviour, deeds, statements, religion, or life, and other defects which are [usually] concealed from the people. Similarly, it does not matter whether the description was done by words or by gesture.”

http://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01135/

 

 

 

[Hassan-]

7 minutes ago, amirhosein_88 said:

Question: What is the proper definition of 'backbiting'? Please, give some references from the Quran and Hadith also.

Answer: Backbiting means “speaking ill of a believer in their absence of someone with the purpose of disparaging him, no matter whether the alleged shortcoming was related to his body, lineage, behaviour, deeds, statements, religion, or life, and other defects which are [usually] concealed from the people. Similarly, it does not matter whether the description was done by words or by gesture.”

http://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01135/

 

 

 

I see, well Sayed Khamenei's definition of backbiting is different then Sayed Sistanis.

[amirhosein_88]

7 hours ago, Hassan Y said:

I see, well Sayed Khamenei's definition of backbiting is different then Sayed Sistanis.

Salamun alaykum.

In Persian website of Sayed Khamenei, the same has been mentioned:

تعريف غيبت
۴۲۹. غيبت آن است كه پشت سر مسلمان عيب مستور او (امری که مستور عرفی است) گفته شود، مشروط به اينكه به قصد تنقيص باشد، يا در نزد عرف تنقيص به‌حساب آيد.

http://www.leader.ir/fa/book/122

In his other website , the same has been mentioned:

۲. مستور بودن عیب
معیار و ملاک صدق غیبت، عبارت است از کشف امر مستور. اگر مستور باشد، گفتن آن غیبت است. اما اگر ظاهر باشد، صدق غیبت نمی‌کند.

So also according to his view, it must be secret.

 

Edited February 24, 2017 by amirhosein_88

[Hassan-]

4 hours ago, amirhosein_88 said:

Salamun alaykum.

In Persian website of Sayed Khamenei, the same has been mentioned:

تعريف غيبت
۴۲۹. غيبت آن است كه پشت سر مسلمان عيب مستور او (امری که مستور عرفی است) گفته شود، مشروط به اينكه به قصد تنقيص باشد، يا در نزد عرف تنقيص به‌حساب آيد.

http://www.leader.ir/fa/book/122

In his other website , the same has been mentioned:

۲. مستور بودن عیب
معیار و ملاک صدق غیبت، عبارت است از کشف امر مستور. اگر مستور باشد، گفتن آن غیبت است. اما اگر ظاهر باشد، صدق غیبت نمی‌کند.

So also according to his view, it must be secret.

 

In english it doesn't mention anything in secret. 

A: Generally speaking, if a real matter relating to a believer person is discussed in their absence so that they would be angry if they heard about it and is actually mentioned for humiliating them or considered in the common view as humiliation, it is backbiting and impermissible. That both parties know it, it is done in order to raise the children with good behaviors or the like does not justify backbiting. However, the ruling of backbiting does not apply to talking about good qualifies of somebody. There is no objection to giving information [about somebody] in consultation either.

Even if they give you permission you still cant:

Q: If one takes somebody’s permission to backbite him/her, is one allowed to do so?
A: In this regard the other party’s permission for backbiting has no standing. Therefore, one is not allowed to do so just because one has gotten his/her permission.

 

So I don't know.