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Fahad Sani

Love of Umar a.s for Ahlulbayt a.s

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Below mentioned some narrations show the love, care and respect Umar a.s had for ahlebait a.s. 

Same Umar a.s whom twelver shia regard as killer of Sayeda Fatima s.a. 

 

From Musannaf ibn abi Shaybah:

حَدَّثَنَا زَيْدُ بْنُ الْحُبَابِ، قَالَ: ثنا الْقَاسِمُ بْنُ مَعْنٍ، عَنْ جَعْفَرٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، أَنَّ عُمَرَ، أَرَادَ أَنْ يَفْرِضَ لِلنَّاسِ، وَكَانَ رَأْيُهُ خَيْرًا مِنْ رَأْيِهِمْ، فَقَالُوا: ابْدَأْ بِنَفْسِكَ، فَقَالَ: «لَا، فَبَدَأَ بِالْأَقْرَبِ فَالْأَقْرَبِ مِنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ،» فَفَرَضَ لِلْعَبَّاسِ ثُمَّ عَلِيٍّ حَتَّى وَالَى بَيْنَ خَمْسِ قَبَائِلَ حَتَّى انْتَهَى إِلَى بَنِي عَدِيِّ بْنِ كَعْبٍ

[Zayd bin al-Hubab told us (Thiqah Imam), al-Qassim bin Ma`n told us (Thiqah Imam Kufi), from Ja`far (al-Sadiq), from his father, that when `Umar wanted to distribute among the people, and he was the best of them in opinion, they said: “Begin with yourself.” So he said: “No, I begin with those closest to the Prophet (saw).” So he distributed to al-`Abbas then to `Ali the Khums and continued to do so for every tribe until he ended with bani `Adi bin Ka`b.

 

حَدَّثَنَا وَكِيعٌ، قَالَ ثنا سُفْيَانُ، عَنْ جَعْفَرٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، قَالَ: لَمَّا وَضَعَ عُمَرُ بْنُ الْخَطَّابِ الدَّوَاوِينَ اسْتَشَارَ النَّاسَ، فَقَالَ: «بِمِنْ أَبْدَأُ؟» قَالَ: ابْدَأْ بِنَفْسِكَ؟ قَالَ: «لَا، وَلَكِنِّي أَبْدَأُ بِالْأَقْرَبِ فَالْأَقْرَبِ مِنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ، فَبَدَأَ بِهِمْ»

[Waki` told us (Thiqah Imam), Suffiyan told us (Thiqah Imam), from Ja`far, from his father, that he said: When `Umar was establishing the Diwans, he consulted the people. He asked: “With whom do I begin?” They said: “Begin with yourself?” He said: “No, but I shall begin with those closest to the Prophet (saw).” So he began with them.]

 

حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ الْأَسَدِيُّ، قَالَ: ثنا حِبَّانُ، عَنْ مُجَالِدٍ، عَنِ الشَّعْبِيِّ، أَنَّ عُمَرَ، أُتِيَ مِنْ جَلُولَاءَ بِسَبْعَةِ آلَافِ أَلْفٍ فَفَرَضَ الْعَطَاءَ فَاسْتَشَارَ فِي ذَلِكَ فَقَالَ عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ عَوْفٍ: «ابْدَأْ بِنَفْسِكَ، فَأَنْتَ أَحَقُّ بِذَلِكَ» ، قَالَ: لَا، بَلْ أَبْدَأُ بِالْأَقْرَبِ مِنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ، مِمَّنْ شَهِدَ بَدْرًا حَتَّى يَنْتَهِيَ ذَلِكَ إِلَيَّ، قَالَ: فَبَدَأَ فَفَرَضَ لِعَلِيٍّ فِي خَمْسَةِ آلَافٍ، ثُمَّ لِبَنِي هَاشِمٍ مِمَّنْ شَهِدَ بَدْرًا، ثُمَّ لِمَوَالِيهِمْ، ثُمَّ لِحُلَفَائِهِمْ ثُمَّ الْأَقْرَبِ فَالْأَقْرَبِ حَتَّى يَنْتَهِي ذَلِكَ إِلَيَّ

[Muhammad bin `Abdullah al-Asadi told us, Hibban told us, from Mujalid, from al-Sha`bi, that they brought `Umar seven million from Jalula’, so he ordered their distribution and consulted. `Abdul-Rahman bin `Awf said: “Start with yourself, you have the most right.” He replied: “No, I shall begin with those closest to the Prophet (saw), those who witnessed Badr until I end with myself.” So he ordered that `Ali receive five thousand, then to bani Hashim, those of them that witnessed Badr, then to their servants, then allies, and he kept on going until his own turn.]

 

From al-Amwal lil-Qassim bin Salam:

قال : وحدثت عن عبد الوهاب بن عبد المجيد الثقفي ، عن جعفر بن محمد ، عن أبيه ، أن عمر ألحق الحسن والحسين بأبيهما ، وفرض لهما في خمسة آلاف وحدثني نعيم بن حماد ، عن عبد العزيز بن محمد ، عن جعفر بن محمد ، عن أبيه ، أن عمر فعل ذلك بالحسن والحسين

[He said: And I was told from `Abd Wahb bin `Abdul-Majeed al-Thaqafi, from Ja`far bin Muhammad, from his father, that `Umar followed `Ali by his sons al-Hasan and al-Husayn giving each of them five thousand. And Nu`aym bin Hammad (Imam Saduq) told me, from `Abdul-`Aziz bin Muhammad al-Darawardi (Hasan al-Hadith) from Ja`far bin Muhammad, from his father, that `Umar indeed did so with al-Hasan and al-Husayn.]

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What about the incident where Umar was at the door of Fatimah (sa) and was threatening to burn down her house?

Found in:

Ansab al-Ashraf. 1. Cairo: Dar al-Ma'arif. p. 586. 

Abu Bakr sent for Ali so that he can give alligance but he didn't. So Umar came [to the house] and Fatima met him at the door. She said: 'ibn Khatab you want to burn my door down?' Umar replied: 'Yes, in order to strengthen the religion your father brought.'

al-Musanaf Dar al-Taj. p. 432.

Umar came to the house of Fatima and said: "O' Daughter of the Prophet of God! I swear by God that we love no one more than your father, and after him we love no one more than you. Yet I swear by God that that won't stop me from gathering these people and commanding them to burn this house down!

Tarikh al-Ya’qoubi (in Urdu) p. 199. 

When Abu Bakr and Umar heard the news that a party of the Ansar and the Muhajirin have gathered with ‘Ali at the house of the daughter of the Prophet, they went with a group of people and attacked the house...

This story is also mentioned in Tareekh Tabari, and is supported by numerous scholars like Shaykh Mansour Leghaei (it is in one of his books too).

 

I also can't find a background of any narrators from these hadith. Can you tell me what collection they're from? And are they sahih?

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@Fahad Sani 

Should we argue on that again. If umar really loved Ahle bait, he would not have burnt house of Zahra ? And to tell you Hazrat Umm-i-Salima says that Prophet PBUHHP, Ali, Fatima, Hasan, Hussain were Ahle bait, even Prophet PBUHHP said to Umm-ul-Momineen Sayeda Umm-i-Salima to be a very nice lady but not among Ahle bait. 

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2 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

From Musannaf ibn abi Shaybah:

حَدَّثَنَا زَيْدُ بْنُ الْحُبَابِ، قَالَ: ثنا الْقَاسِمُ بْنُ مَعْنٍ، عَنْ جَعْفَرٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، أَنَّ عُمَرَ، أَرَادَ أَنْ يَفْرِضَ لِلنَّاسِ، وَكَانَ رَأْيُهُ خَيْرًا مِنْ رَأْيِهِمْ، فَقَالُوا: ابْدَأْ بِنَفْسِكَ، فَقَالَ: «لَا، فَبَدَأَ بِالْأَقْرَبِ فَالْأَقْرَبِ مِنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ،» فَفَرَضَ لِلْعَبَّاسِ ثُمَّ عَلِيٍّ حَتَّى وَالَى بَيْنَ خَمْسِ قَبَائِلَ حَتَّى انْتَهَى إِلَى بَنِي عَدِيِّ بْنِ كَعْبٍ

[Zayd bin al-Hubab told us (Thiqah Imam), al-Qassim bin Ma`n told us (Thiqah Imam Kufi), from Ja`far (al-Sadiq), from his father, that when `Umar wanted to distribute among the people, and he was the best of them in opinion, they said: “Begin with yourself.” So he said: “No, I begin with those closest to the Prophet (saw).” So he distributed to al-`Abbas then to `Ali the Khums and continued to do so for every tribe until he ended with bani `Adi bin Ka`b.

This is another proof that Umer don't even knew the Ahlul bait (a.s) or if he knew, he want to contaminate that circle by including Al-Abbas in Ahlul Bait (a.s)

In both the cases, we observe his ignorance or his enmity.

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49 minutes ago, Engineer73 said:
3 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

From Musannaf ibn abi Shaybah:

حَدَّثَنَا زَيْدُ بْنُ الْحُبَابِ، قَالَ: ثنا الْقَاسِمُ بْنُ مَعْنٍ، عَنْ جَعْفَرٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، أَنَّ عُمَرَ، أَرَادَ أَنْ يَفْرِضَ لِلنَّاسِ، وَكَانَ رَأْيُهُ خَيْرًا مِنْ رَأْيِهِمْ، فَقَالُوا: ابْدَأْ بِنَفْسِكَ، فَقَالَ: «لَا، فَبَدَأَ بِالْأَقْرَبِ فَالْأَقْرَبِ مِنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ،» فَفَرَضَ لِلْعَبَّاسِ ثُمَّ عَلِيٍّ حَتَّى وَالَى بَيْنَ خَمْسِ قَبَائِلَ حَتَّى انْتَهَى إِلَى بَنِي عَدِيِّ بْنِ كَعْبٍ

[Zayd bin al-Hubab told us (Thiqah Imam), al-Qassim bin Ma`n told us (Thiqah Imam Kufi), from Ja`far (al-Sadiq), from his father, that when `Umar wanted to distribute among the people, and he was the best of them in opinion, they said: “Begin with yourself.” So he said: “No, I begin with those closest to the Prophet (saw).” So he distributed to al-`Abbas then to `Ali the Khums and continued to do so for every tribe until he ended with bani `Adi bin Ka`b.

This is another proof that Umer don't even knew the Ahlul bait (a.s) or if he knew, he want to contaminate that circle by including Al-Abbas in Ahlul Bait (a.s)

In both the cases, we observe his ignorance or his enmity.

Those closest to Prophet s.a.w.w.

Uncle is also closest one. Dont he.

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21 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

Those closest to Prophet s.a.w.w.

Uncle is also closest one. Dont he.

Is it intellectual dishonesty or it is ignorance! Now you're adding Al-Abbas in Ahlul bait too? Here what your books are saying:

THE AHLUL-BAYT OF THE PROPHET (PBUH&HF)

the Ahlul-Bayt of the Prophet (PBUH&HF) consist of the following individuals ONLY:

Fatimah al-Zahra ,

Imam Ali ,

Imam al-Hasan ,

Imam al-Husain ,

Nine descendants of Imam al-Husain .

and including the Prophet (PBUH&HF) himself, they will become fourteen individuals.

The quran mentions Ahlul-Bayt and their exceptional virtue in the following verse which is known as

"Purification Verse" (Ayah al-Tat'hir):

"Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt),

and purify you with a perfect purification". (Quran, the last sentence of Verse 33:33)

It is interesting to see that both Sahih Muslim and Sahih al-Tirmidhi as well as many others confirm the

Shi'ite point of view explained above. In Sahih Muslim, there is a chapter named "Chapter of Virtues of

the Companions". Inside this chapter, there is a section called "Section of the Virtues of the Ahlul-Bayt of

the Prophet". There exists ONLY ONE tradition in this section, and this tradition has no reference to the

wives of the Prophet (PBUH&HF). The tradition is known as "The Tradition of Cloak/Mantle" (Hadith al-

Kisaa), and is as follows:

Narrated Aisha:

One day the Prophet (PBUH&HF) came out afternoon wearing a black cloak (upper garment or gown; long coat), then al-Hasan Ibn Ali came and the Prophet accommodated him under the cloak, then al- Husain came and entered the cloak, then Fatimah came and the Prophet entered her under the cloak, then Ali came and the Prophet entered him to the cloak as well. Then the Prophet recited: "Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you a perfect purification (the last sentence of Verse 33:33)."

Sunni reference:

Sahih Muslim, Chapter of virtues of companions, section of the virtues of the Ahlul-Bayt of the Prophet

(PBUH&HF), 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v4, p1883, Tradition #61.

One can see that the author of Sahih Muslim confirms that:

Imam Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain are the Ahlul-Bayt,

The purification sentence in Quran (the last sentence of Verse 33:33) was revealed for the virtue of the above-mentioned individuals, and NOT for the wives of the Prophet (PBUH&HF).

Muslim (the Author) did not put any other tradition in this section (section of the virtues of Ahlul-Bayt). If the author of Sahih Muslim believed that the wives of the Prophet were included in Ahlul-Bayt, he would have quoted some traditions about them in this section.

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The messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said: "I am leaving for you two precious and weighty Symbols that if you adhere to BOTH of them you shall not go astray after me. They are, the Book of Allah, and my progeny, that is my Ahlul-Bayt. The Merciful has informed me that These two shall not separate from each other till they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise)."

Sunni references:

Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 662-663,328, report of 30+ companions, with reference to several chains of transmitters.

al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, Chapter of "Understanding (the virtues) of Companions, v3, pp 109,110,148,533 who wrote this tradition is authentic (Sahih) based on the criteria of the two Shaikhs

(al-Bukhari and Muslim).

Sunan, by Daarami, v2, p432

Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v3, pp 14,17,26,59, v4, pp 366,370-372, v5, pp 182,189,350,366,419

Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p585, Tradition #990

al-Khasa'is, by al-Nisa'i, pp 21,30

al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p230

al-Kabir, by al-Tabarani, v3, pp 62-63,137

Kanz al-Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, Chapter al-Iti'sam bi Habl Allah, v1, p44.

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I can't tell if you're joking or not lol.

 

‘Ali and Abbas were sitting inside the house of Fatimah, Abu Bakr told Umar: "Go and bring them; if they refuse, kill them.” Umar brought fire to burn the house. Fatimah came near the door and said: "O son of Khattab, have you come to burn our house on me and my children?” Umar replied: "Yes I will, by Allah, until they come out and pay allegiance to the Prophet’s Caliph."

Sunni reference:
- Iqd al-Fareed, by Ibn Abd Rabb, Part 3, Pg. 63
- al-Ghurar, by Ibn Khazaben, related from Zayd Ibn Aslam

 

Umar Ibn al-Khattab came to the house of ‘Ali. Talha and Zubair and some of the immigrants were also in the house. Umar cried out:"By God, either you come out to render the oath of allegiance, or I will set the house on fire.” al-Zubair came out with his sword drawn. As he stumbled (upon something), the sword fell from his hand so they jumped over him and seized him.

Sunni Reference: -History of Tabari, English version, v9, pp 186-187

 

Umar said to Fatimah (who was behind the door of her house): "I know that the Prophet of God did not love any one more than you, but this will not stop me to carry out my decision. If these people stay in your house, I will burn the door in front of you."
Sunni reference: -Kanz al-Ummal, v3, p140

 

In fact Shibli Numani a famous scholar himself testifies the above event in the following words: "From Umar’s irritable and peevish temperament such an action on his part was not improbable."
Sunni reference: -al-Faruq, by Shibli Numani, p44

 

 

Umar asked for wood, and told those people inside the house: "I swear by Allah who has my soul in his hand, that if you do not come out, I will burn the house.” Someone told Umar that Fatimah was inside the house. Umar said: "So what! It doesn’t matter to me who is in the house.
Sunni reference: al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 3,19-20
 

 

Also refer to the esteemed Sunni historian Abul Hasan, ‘Ali Ibn al-Husayn al-Mas’udi who in his book ‘Isbaat al-Wasiyyah’ describes the events in detail and reports that: "They surrounded ‘Ali (as) and burned the door of his house and pulled him out against his will and pressed the leader of all women (Hadhrat Fatimah (sa)) between the door and the wall killing Mohsin (the male-child she was carrying in her womb for six months).”

 


Salahuddin Khalil al-Safadi another Sunni scholar in his book ‘Waafi al- Wafiyyaat’ under the letter ‘A’ while recording the view of Ibrahim Ibn Sayyar Ibn Hani al-Basri, well-known as Nidhaam quotes him to have said: "On the day of ‘Bay’aat’ (paying allegiance), Umar hit Fatimah (sa) on the stomach such that child in her womb died."

 

And when Fatima (as) passed away, she made a will preventing abu bakr from attending her funeral:

Sharh Ibn al Hadeed Volume 4 page 136 Chapter Khutbah Bayan Fadak: "Hadhrat Fatima's anger was such that she left a will stipulating that Abu Bakr not attend her funeral prayers."

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@Fahad Sani is a salafi, he admitted that Allah has a physical body in the other thread. Don't take the stuff he says seriously.

23 hours ago, Hassan Y said:

So my question is to you, do you believe Abu huraira that we WILL see Allah on the day of judgement and do you believe Allah puts his leg on the hell fire to calm it down?

 

10 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

In short YES

 

Edited by Hassan Y

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11 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Below mentioned some narrations show the love, care and respect Umar a.s had for ahlebait a.s. 

Same Umar a.s whom twelver shia regard as killer of Sayeda Fatima s.a. 

 

From Musannaf ibn abi Shaybah:

حَدَّثَنَا زَيْدُ بْنُ الْحُبَابِ، قَالَ: ثنا الْقَاسِمُ بْنُ مَعْنٍ، عَنْ جَعْفَرٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، أَنَّ عُمَرَ، أَرَادَ أَنْ يَفْرِضَ لِلنَّاسِ، وَكَانَ رَأْيُهُ خَيْرًا مِنْ رَأْيِهِمْ، فَقَالُوا: ابْدَأْ بِنَفْسِكَ، فَقَالَ: «لَا، فَبَدَأَ بِالْأَقْرَبِ فَالْأَقْرَبِ مِنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ،» فَفَرَضَ لِلْعَبَّاسِ ثُمَّ عَلِيٍّ حَتَّى وَالَى بَيْنَ خَمْسِ قَبَائِلَ حَتَّى انْتَهَى إِلَى بَنِي عَدِيِّ بْنِ كَعْبٍ

[Zayd bin al-Hubab told us (Thiqah Imam), al-Qassim bin Ma`n told us (Thiqah Imam Kufi), from Ja`far (al-Sadiq), from his father, that when `Umar wanted to distribute among the people, and he was the best of them in opinion, they said: “Begin with yourself.” So he said: “No, I begin with those closest to the Prophet (saw).” So he distributed to al-`Abbas then to `Ali the Khums and continued to do so for every tribe until he ended with bani `Adi bin Ka`b.

 

حَدَّثَنَا وَكِيعٌ، قَالَ ثنا سُفْيَانُ، عَنْ جَعْفَرٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، قَالَ: لَمَّا وَضَعَ عُمَرُ بْنُ الْخَطَّابِ الدَّوَاوِينَ اسْتَشَارَ النَّاسَ، فَقَالَ: «بِمِنْ أَبْدَأُ؟» قَالَ: ابْدَأْ بِنَفْسِكَ؟ قَالَ: «لَا، وَلَكِنِّي أَبْدَأُ بِالْأَقْرَبِ فَالْأَقْرَبِ مِنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ، فَبَدَأَ بِهِمْ»

[Waki` told us (Thiqah Imam), Suffiyan told us (Thiqah Imam), from Ja`far, from his father, that he said: When `Umar was establishing the Diwans, he consulted the people. He asked: “With whom do I begin?” They said: “Begin with yourself?” He said: “No, but I shall begin with those closest to the Prophet (saw).” So he began with them.]

 

حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ الْأَسَدِيُّ، قَالَ: ثنا حِبَّانُ، عَنْ مُجَالِدٍ، عَنِ الشَّعْبِيِّ، أَنَّ عُمَرَ، أُتِيَ مِنْ جَلُولَاءَ بِسَبْعَةِ آلَافِ أَلْفٍ فَفَرَضَ الْعَطَاءَ فَاسْتَشَارَ فِي ذَلِكَ فَقَالَ عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ عَوْفٍ: «ابْدَأْ بِنَفْسِكَ، فَأَنْتَ أَحَقُّ بِذَلِكَ» ، قَالَ: لَا، بَلْ أَبْدَأُ بِالْأَقْرَبِ مِنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ، مِمَّنْ شَهِدَ بَدْرًا حَتَّى يَنْتَهِيَ ذَلِكَ إِلَيَّ، قَالَ: فَبَدَأَ فَفَرَضَ لِعَلِيٍّ فِي خَمْسَةِ آلَافٍ، ثُمَّ لِبَنِي هَاشِمٍ مِمَّنْ شَهِدَ بَدْرًا، ثُمَّ لِمَوَالِيهِمْ، ثُمَّ لِحُلَفَائِهِمْ ثُمَّ الْأَقْرَبِ فَالْأَقْرَبِ حَتَّى يَنْتَهِي ذَلِكَ إِلَيَّ

[Muhammad bin `Abdullah al-Asadi told us, Hibban told us, from Mujalid, from al-Sha`bi, that they brought `Umar seven million from Jalula’, so he ordered their distribution and consulted. `Abdul-Rahman bin `Awf said: “Start with yourself, you have the most right.” He replied: “No, I shall begin with those closest to the Prophet (saw), those who witnessed Badr until I end with myself.” So he ordered that `Ali receive five thousand, then to bani Hashim, those of them that witnessed Badr, then to their servants, then allies, and he kept on going until his own turn.]

 

From al-Amwal lil-Qassim bin Salam:

قال : وحدثت عن عبد الوهاب بن عبد المجيد الثقفي ، عن جعفر بن محمد ، عن أبيه ، أن عمر ألحق الحسن والحسين بأبيهما ، وفرض لهما في خمسة آلاف وحدثني نعيم بن حماد ، عن عبد العزيز بن محمد ، عن جعفر بن محمد ، عن أبيه ، أن عمر فعل ذلك بالحسن والحسين

[He said: And I was told from `Abd Wahb bin `Abdul-Majeed al-Thaqafi, from Ja`far bin Muhammad, from his father, that `Umar followed `Ali by his sons al-Hasan and al-Husayn giving each of them five thousand. And Nu`aym bin Hammad (Imam Saduq) told me, from `Abdul-`Aziz bin Muhammad al-Darawardi (Hasan al-Hadith) from Ja`far bin Muhammad, from his father, that `Umar indeed did so with al-Hasan and al-Husayn.]

Why is loving Umar so important to you? 

I don't force the love of the AhlulBayt upon you. But then their character is such that a true Muslim cannot help but love them.

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A new version of Islam,  Ahle Sunnah with Minhaj of Ahletashayyu, as a result rank of Umer changed from Umer r.a to Umer a.s.

Are you trying to make us fool or fooling yourself? 

 

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14 hours ago, Pangea said:
14 hours ago, starlight said:

Who is Umar 'a.s' ?

You beat me to it starlight!

 

1 hour ago, Aabiss_Shakari said:

A new version of Islam,  Ahle Sunnah with Minhaj of Ahletashayyu, as a result rank of Umer changed from Umer r.a to Umer a.s.

Are you trying to make us fool or fooling yourself? 

 

Same a.s is also with ahlebait.

18 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Below mentioned some narrations show the love, care and respect Umar a.s had for ahlebait a.s. 

A.S or "alayhi as-salām (عليه السلام), means peace be upon him". It can also be used with names of non prophets. In fact we all use this term for all muslims when we say  "As-Salaam-Alaikum," meaning "Peace be unto you,"

 

Large fonts are used so that those who are blind and are living a life of jahilliyah can also see the truth.

 

Edited by starlight
Changed fonts back to normal size, followers of Ahlebayt (as) cannot be Jaahil.

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1 hour ago, starlight said:

@Fahad Sani So in your opinion Umar was at the same level as Ahlebayt (as)? 

Everyone has their own merits and level. Even in ahlebayt not all members are at same level. 

For e.g except Imam Ali a.s and Imam Hassan a.s no other member of ahlebayt became caliph or head of the islamic state. While Imam Umar a.s got this merit. Imam Ali a.s also testified and praised his position as caliph. Also see Imam Umar a.s justice and good behaviour with ahlebayt as mentioned in OP.

Nahjul balahja sermon 145.Or 146 depending on the publisher.

 

Sermon 146: In this matter, victory or defeat….

Spoken when `Umar ibn al-Khattab consulted Amir al-mu'minin about taking part in the battle of Persia. 1

ومن كلام له (عليه السلام)

وقد استشاره عمر بن الخطاب في الشخوص لقتال الفرس بنفسه

In this matter, victory or defeat is not dependent on the smallness or greatness of forces. It is Allah's religion which He has raised above all faiths, and His army which He has mobilised and extended, till it has reached the point where it stands now, and has arrived its present positions. We hold a promise from Allah, and He will fulfil His promise and support His army.

 

إِنَّ هذَا الاْمْرَ لَمْ يَكُنْ نَصْرُهُ وَلاَ خِذْلاَنُهُ بِكَثْرَة وَلاَ بِقِلَّة، وَهُوَ دِينُ اللهِ الَّذِي أَظْهَرَهُ، وَجُنْدُهُ الَّذِي أَعَدَّهُ وَأَمَدَّهُ، حَتَّى بَلَغَ مَا بَلَغَ، وَطَلَعَ حَيْثُ طَلَعَ، وَنَحْنُ عَلَى مَوْعُود مِنَ اللهِ، وَاللهُ مُنْجِزٌ وَعْدَهُ، وَنَاصِرٌ جُنْدَهُ.

The position of the head of government is that of the thread for beads, as it connects them and keeps them together. If the thread is broken, they will disperse and be lost, and will never come together again. The Arabs today, even though small in number are big because of Islam and strong because of unity. You should remain like the axis for them, and rotate the mill (of government) with (the help of) the Arabs, and be their root. Avoid battle, because if you leave this place the Arabs will attack you from all sides and directions till the unguarded places left behind by you will become more important than those before you.

 

وَمَكَانُ الْقَيِّمِ بِالاْمْرِ مَكَانُ النِّظَامِ مِنَ الْخَرَزِ يَجْمَعُهُ وَيَضُمُّهُ: فَإِنِ انْقَطَعَ النِّظَامُ تَفَرَّقَ وَذَهَبَ، ثُمَّ لَمْ يَجْتَمِعُ بِحَذَافِيرِهِ أَبَداً. وَالْعَرَبُ الْيَومَ وَإِنْ كَانُوا قَلِيلاً، فَهُمْ كَثِيرُونَ بَالاْسْلاَمِ، عَزِيزُونَ بَالاجْتِماعِ! فَكُنْ قُطْباً، وَاسْتَدِرِ الرَّحَا بِالْعَرَبِ، وَأَصْلِهِمْ دُونَكَ نَارَ الْحَرْبِ، فَإِنَّكَ إِنْ شَخَصْتَ مِنْ هذِهِ الاَرْضِ انْتَقَضَتْ عَلَيْكَ الْعَرَبُ مِنْ أَطْرَافِهَا وَأَقْطَارِهَا، حَتَّى يَكُونَ مَا تَدَعُ وَرَاءَكَ مِنَ الْعَوْرَاتِ أَهَمَّ إِلَيْكَ مِمَّا بَيْنَ يَدَيْكَ.

If the Persians see you tomorrow they will say, "He is the root (chief) of Arabia. If we do away with him we will be in peace." In this way this will heighten their eagerness against you and their keenness to aim at you. You say that they have set out to fight against the Muslims. Well, Allah detests their setting out more than you do, and He is more capable of preventing what He detests. As regards your idea about their (large) number, in the past we did not fight on the strength of large numbers but we fought on the basis of Allah's support and assistance.

 

إِنَّ الاَعَاجِمَ إِنْ يَنْظُرُوا إِلَيْكَ غَداً يَقُولُوا: هذا أَصْلُ الْعَرَبِ، فَإِذَا اقْتَطَعْتُمُوهُ اسْتَرَحْتُمْ، فَيْكُونُ ذلِكَ أَشَدَّ لِكَلَبِهِمْ عَلَيْكَ، وَطَمَعِهِمْ فِيكَ. فَأَمَّا مَا ذَكَرْتَ مِنْ مَسِيرِ الْقَوْمِ إِلَى قِتَالِ المُسْلِمِينَ، فَإِنَّ اللهَ سُبْحَانَهُ هُوَ أَكْرَهُ لِمَسِيرِهِمْ مِنْكَ، وَهُوَ أَقْدَرُ عَلَى تَغْيِيرِ مَا يَكْرَهُ . وَأَمَّا مَا ذَكَرْتَ مِنْ عَدَدِهِمْ، فَإِنَّا لَمْ نَكُنْ نُقَاتِلُ فِيَما مَضَى بِالْكَثْرَةِ، وَإِنَّمَا كُنَّا نُقَاتِلُ بِالنَّصْرِ وَالْمَعُونَةِ!

Alternative Sources for Sermon 146

(1) Al-Dinawari, al-'Akhbar, 134;

 

(2) Ibn A`tham, al-Futuh, II, 37;

 

(3) al-Tabari, Ta'rikh, IV, 237 events of 27 H.;

 

(4) al-Mufid, al-'Irshad, 120;

 

(5) Ibn Miskawayh, Tajarib, I, 419.

 

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@Fahad Sani you got all that from here https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-146-matter-victory-or-defeat

It's so funny to me how you believe other sermons in Nahjul Balagha but when there's one that puts your sahabas to shame you say you don't believe it. You like to pick and choose whatever fits your agenda.

 

Sermon 7 of Nahjul Balagha:

Beware! By Allah the son of Abu Quhafah (Abu Bakr) dressed himself with it (the caliphate) and he certainly knew that my position in relation to it was the same as the position of the axis in relation to the hand-mill. The flood water flows down from me and the bird cannot fly upto me. I put a curtain against the caliphate and kept myself detached from it.

Then I began to think whether I should assault or endure calmly the blinding darkness of tribulations wherein the grown up are made feeble and the young grow old and the true believer acts under strain till he meets Allah (on his death). I found that endurance thereon was wiser. So I adopted patience although there was [Edited Out]ing in the eye and suffocation (of mortification) in the throat. I watched the plundering of my inheritance till the first one went his way but handed over the Caliphate to Ibn al-Khattab after himself.

My days are now passed on the camel’s back (in difficulty) while there were days (of ease) when I enjoyed the company of Jabir’s brother Hayyan.

It is strange that during his lifetime he wished to be released from the caliphate but he confirmed it for the other one after his death. No doubt these two shared its udders strictly among themselves. This one put the Caliphate in a tough enclosure where the utterance was haughty and the touch was rough. Mistakes were in plenty and so also the excuses therefore. One in contact with it was like the rider of an unruly camel. If he pulled up its rein the very nostril would be slit, but if he let it loose he would be thrown. Consequently, by Allah people got involved in recklessness, wickedness, unsteadiness and deviation.

Nevertheless, I remained patient despite length of period and stiffness of trial, till when he went his way (of death) he put the matter (of Caliphate) in a group(4) and regarded me to be one of them. But good Heavens! what had I to do with this "consultation"? Where was any doubt about me with regard to the first of them that I was now considered akin to these ones? But I remained low when they were low and flew high when they flew high. One of them turned against me because of his hatred and the other got inclined the other way due to his in-law relationship and this thing and that thing, till the third man of these people stood up with heaving breasts between his dung and fodder. With him his children of his grand-father, (Umayyah) also stood up swallowing up Allah’s wealth(5) like a camel devouring the foliage of spring, till his rope broke down, his actions finished him and his gluttony brought him down prostrate.

 

The authenticity of this sermon was given to you in the other thread.

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@Hassan Y

Sermon 146 is not isolated one. There are many other similar ones also in same book. Like 133, 226 etc. Moreover, Imam Ali a.s said these words in front of Umar a.s, while sermon 3 happened after their demise, behind their back. What does it mean. Imam Ali a.s used to praise them in front of them but after their death he blamed them. This do not befit with the personality of a brave like Imam Ali a.s. And the narrations in the OP says Imam Ali a.s used to recieve khums and other gifts like land of yanbu etc from Umar a.s. such reports and reports of their praise from Imam are more in number as compared tp sermon 3 and specify that such things happened multiple times not just once. So I consider things in totality with full justice. Without being slave of my personal choice or emotions.

Everyone here is just picking and choosing. But truth will be known when you will take and consider things in totality, not just one or two events from history or one or two mistakes of someone and then multiply their entire life with zero. 

Edited by Fahad Sani

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2 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

@Hassan Y

Sermon 146 is not isolated one. There are many other similar ones also in same book. Like 133, 226 etc. Moreover, Imam Ali a.s said these words in front of Umar a.s, while sermon 3 happened after their demise, behind their back. What does it mean. Imam Ali a.s used to praise them in front of them but after their death he blamed them. This do not befit with the personality of a brave like Imam Ali a.s. And the narrations in the OP says Imam Ali a.s used to recieve khums and other gifts like land of yanbu etc from Umar a.s. such reports and reports of their praise from Imam are more in number as compared tp sermon 3 and specify that such things happened multiple times not just once. So I consider things in totality with full justice. Without being slave of my personal choice or emotions.

Everyone here is just picking and choosing. But truth will be known when you will take and consider things in totality, not just one or two events from history or one or two mistakes of someone and then multiply their entire life with zero. 

Brother, it is made clear even in Sahifat Alawiyyah that Imam Ali (as) would make dua for lanan upon Abu Bakr and Umar (the athletic sprinters). 

Lanan upon the two idols of Quraysh, their two accusers, their two magicians and their two daughters.

Just like we say in all other threads, it was to keep Muslims safe from being invaded by kuffar.

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@Hassan Y

Regardless of authenticity of sermon 3, its content, words do not befit with Imam Ali a.s personality. He was a fearless, a man of bravery.  

It starts with..

5 hours ago, Hassan Y said:

Beware! By Allah the son of Abu Quhafah (Abu Bakr) dressed himself with it (the caliphate) and he certainly knew that my position in relation to it was the same as the position of the axis in relation to the hand-mill. The flood water flows down from me and the bird cannot fly upto me. I put a curtain against the caliphate and kept myself detached from it.

This is cowardice not bravery. According to this fake sermon, Imam Ali a.s waited until their death in order to criticize and blame the dead persons for usurping his right of caliphate. Why he did not say this on their face. Imam Ali a.s is not man of taqqiyah or cowardice etc.

5 hours ago, Hassan Y said:

Then I began to think whether I should assault or endure calmly the blinding darkness of tribulations wherein the grown up are made feeble and the young grow old and the true believer acts under strain till he meets Allah (on his death). I found that endurance thereon was wiser. So I adopted patience although there was [Edited Out]ing in the eye and suffocation (of mortification) in the throat. I watched the plundering of my inheritance till the first one went his way but handed over the Caliphate to Ibn al-Khattab after himself.

These can not be words of a brave like Imam Ali a.s. These are words of a coward.  WHo did not had courage to ask for his right in front of accused persons.

6 hours ago, Hassan Y said:

One of them turned against me because of his hatred and the other got inclined the other way due to his in-law relationship and this thing and that thing, till the third man of these people stood up with heaving breasts between his dung and fodder.

This is rubbish, garbage. How can you believe that these are words of Imam Ali a.s.

Capture.PNG.c768e1fea12bde6be98c5cdd7f4e2955.PNG

Quote

(It is said that when Amir al-mu’minin reached here in his sermon a man of Iraq stood up and handed him over a writing. Amir al-mu’minin began looking at it, when Ibn `Abbas said, “O’ Amir al-mu’minin, I wish you resumed your Sermon from where you broke it.” Thereupon he replied, “O’ Ibn `Abbas it was like the foam of a Camel which gushed out but subsided.” Ibn `Abbas says that he never grieved over any utterance as he did over this one because Amir al-mu’minin could not finish it as he wished to.)

This is disgustful. These abuse type statements can not be the words of Imam ALi a.s. Who was at peak of eloquence. And had high morals. A role model.

Similar disrespectful and disgusting words are also there in some other sermons like in sermon 73. Such type of sermons could not be from Imam Ali a.s.

Quote

Sermon 73: Didn't he swear me his allegiance after ...

Amir al-mu'minin said about Marwan ibn al-Hakam at Basrah. When Marwan was taken on the day of Jamal, he asked Hasan and Husayn (p.b.u.t.) to intercede on his behalf before Amir al-mu'minin. So they spoke to Amir al-mu'minin about him and he released him. Then they said, "O' Amir al-mu'minin he desires to swear you allegiance" Whereupon Amir al-mu'minin said:

Did he not swear me allegiance after the killing of `Uthman? Now I do not need his allegiance, because his is the hand of a Jew. If he swears me allegiance with his hand he would violate it after a short while. Well, he is to get power for so long as a dog licks his nose. He is the father of four rams (who will also rule). The people will face days through him and his sons.

 

These can never be the words of same Imam Ali a.s who even showed respect to his own killer. And he who never called anyone as either kafir or mushrik or munafiq, who fought against him but rather said these are our brethren who rebelled against us.

 

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7 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Imam Ali a.s used to praise them in front of them but after their death he blamed them.

Praise them? Where on earth did he praise them?

 

7 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

reports of their praise from Imam are more in number as compared tp sermon 3 and specify that such things happened multiple times not just once.

Show me where it says he praised them.

4 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

This is cowardice not bravery. According to this fake sermon, Imam Ali a.s waited until their death in order to criticize and blame the dead persons for usurping his right of caliphate. Why he did not say this on their face. Imam Ali a.s is not man of taqqiyah or cowardice etc.

Imam Ali criticized them the moment they stole his right. Why do you think it took him 6 months to pledge allegiance? If he praised these individuals, he would have pledged right away. Also, did you forget the incident of the burning house? Authentic hadiths and history show abu bakr and umar oppressing them and forcing them to pledge.

4 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

These can not be words of a brave like Imam Ali a.s. These are words of a coward.  WHo did not had courage to ask for his right in front of accused persons.

He always did, and they were present during the day of Ghadir when the Prophet appointed Ali. It took him 6 months to pledge, and that's after they threatened him.

 

4 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

This is rubbish, garbage. How can you believe that these are words of Imam Ali a.s.

In Arabic, this is what the bolded part said  حِضْنَيْهِ بَيْنَ نَثِيلهِ وَمُعْتَلَفِهِ .. There is nothing wrong with what he said.

 

4 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

These can never be the words of same Imam Ali a.s who even showed respect to his own killer. And he who never called anyone as either kafir or mushrik or munafiq, who fought against him but rather said these are our brethren who rebelled against us.

Again, there is nothing wrong with what he said, sometimes when you translate from arabic to english it can change the meaning of what he meant to say. Right now you are literally finding anything you can that's irrelevant just to prove that this sermon is inauthentic lol, but the reality is, that sermon is 100% authentic and I showed you the proof.

 

I'm not sure why I'm even arguing with you anymore, it's pointless since you are hard headed and stubborn. 

Edited by Hassan Y

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13 hours ago, starlight said:

@Fahad Sani So in your opinion Umar was at the same level as Ahlebayt (as)? 

If the wife of the prophet cannot come under the claok ie kissa at the revelation of verse of purification  (last part 33:33) then Umar is only a father of one wife of the prophet who can never come under the claok? which means he can never be of such status as that of Ahl albayat. 

How a blind follower of Umar can make such absurd claim?

Edited by skyweb1987

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@starlight 

I want to tell you sister that @Fahad Sani brother speaks about letter 6 always where Imam Ali says that if shura was your criteria then why did you waged war against an elected Caliph to whom you paid unanimous allegiance. And @Fahad Sani says it is wrong translation lolz. And he did not mention this thing before and spoke about shura. 

Everything he brings in the support of fake sahaba is either fake or fabrications trust me I say it with full guarantee just check it. 

Fahad Sani please have Mercy on yourself Bro 

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Question for everyone including @Fahad Sani, the Seer of Allah:

Was there any sahaba other than Caliph Umar who was more rude and obnoxious towards the Prophet than Caliph Umar?

I lack the hypocritical gene where I claim to love the Prophet and also love the 'Sahaba' who abused him the most.

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