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In the Name of God بسم الله

Love of Umar a.s for Ahlulbayt a.s

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Who is Umar 'a.s' ?

hahahahahahahahahahaha no. 

I think that "a.s" after Umer stands for his attributes e.g, athlete; sprinter He really ran like sprinter specially in Uhud & Hunayn 

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On 25/02/2017 at 10:17 PM, Fahad Sani said:

2. Narration of pen and paper.  3. Incident of hudaibiyah.

(2) There are two possibilities - either Umar genuinely felt that the Prophet was too ill or he wanted to prevent the Prophet from writing.

There is no indication that the Prophet's words were slurred or incoherent. So the Prophet did mean what he said. He knew exactly what he was saying.

That being the case, it is obvious that Umar knew what the Prophet wanted to write and since it wasn't to his liking, he made sure that the pen and paper were not made available to him.

(3)  Incident of hudaibiyah.

You are right that Umar just asked a question.

But the question shows clearly that he was NOT happy with the Prophet's decision of condescending to the Meccans.

As for Imam Ali refusing to cross out what the Prophet had dictated, it shows the perfection of faith and love for the Prophet.

Not disobedience or defiance.

The two are completely different.

Remember what the Prophet himself -- Imam Ali loved God and the Prophet and was, in turn, loved by them.

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On 25/02/2017 at 10:17 PM, Fahad Sani said:

The braveness of Umar A.S from the words of Ahlebayt:

Ali A.S reports: “Never have I known anyone to have emigrated but in secret with the exception of umar. When he resolved to emigrate, he took his sword, picked up his bow, grabbed some arrows and headed for the kabah where the elite of Quraysh were. He performed the circumambulation, performed two rakahs at Abraham’s station, then stopped at each of their rings and said, Misshapened are the faces: let anyone who wants his mother to lose him, his son to be made an orphan and his wife to be widowed, meet me beyond that valley. However nobody dared take one step after him.”(reported by ibn Asaakir) (Biographies of the rightly guided caliphs page 150)ngs and beliefs of ahlebait a.s. Ameen.

Hardly likely that the narration is true.

And where is the bravery in that little piece.

Did Umar show exceptional courage in any battle?

No, he did not. 

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On 2/25/2017 at 1:35 PM, Hassan Y said:

Proof was shown to @Fahad Sani of Ali's imamat, let's see if his brain will comprehend it.

There are two interpretations on ghadir. Shia version says wilayah as authority/imamate. Sunni version says WIlayah as love/muwadat. Shia version has many flaws. One big flaw according to me is the revelation of Maida 67. The starting point of ghadir from shia perspective. Below is the brief truth about what exactly happened at ghadir. Also ghadir is no where in nahjul balagha. Its not used by Imam Ali a.s as an argument for his divine imamate. Sermon 3 shiqshiqyh is also free from ghadir. This also proves Imam Ali a.s himself did not consider it as divine appointment.

Quote

قال الله تعالى في الآية 6 من سورة الأحزاب : (النَّبيُّ أولى بالمؤمنين من أنفسهم)

      قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم أَنَا أَوْلَى بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ مِنْ أَنْفُسِهِمْ

(Bukhari, Muslim, Trimizi, Abu Dawud, Nasai & others)

Same words Prophet s.a.w.w repeated in Ghadir, before saying Man kuntu Maula'hu.

 أحمد في مسنده 19302

حدثنا حُسين بن محمد وأبو نعيم، المعنى، قالا: حدثنا فِطْرٌ، عن أبي الطُّفيل قال:جمع عليٌّ رضي الله عنه الناسَ في الرَّحْبة، ثم قال لهم: أنْشُدُ اللهَ كلَّ امرىءٍ مسلمٍ سَمِعَ رسولَ الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يوم غَديرِ خُمٍّ ما سمع، لَمَّا قام، فقام ثلاثون من الناس، وقال أبو نعيم: فقام ناسٌ كثير، فشهدوا حين أخذه بيده، فقال للناس: "أتَعْلَمُونَ أنِّي أوْلَى بالمؤمنينَ مِنْ أنْفُسِهِمْ؟" قالوا: نعم يا رسولَ الله. قال: "مَنْ كُنْتُ مَوْلاهُ، فَهذَا مولاهُ، اللّهُمَّ وَالِ مَنْ وَالاهُ وَعَادِ مَنْ عادَاهُ" قال: فخرجتُ وكأنَّ في نفسي شيئاً، فلَقِيتُ زيدَ بنَ أرقم، فقلتُ له: إني سمعتُ علياً رضي الله عنه يقول كذا وكذا. قال: فما تُنكر؟ قد سمعتُ رسولَ الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يقول ذلك له.

First Prophet s.a.w.w asked a question that: "Do I not have more rights over your lives than yourselves? All answered: Yes

Then Prophet s.a.w.w said: Of whomever I am Mawla, Ali is his Mawla.

And Immediately after this Prophet s.a.w.w said: O Allah, befriend whosoever befriends him and be the enemy of whosever is hostile to him.

Meaning, Mu'walat (love) and Mu'adat (enmity). Not caliphate or leadership. If it had been for caliphate then Prophet s.a.w.w would have said more explicit & unambiguous words like "O Allah love those who FOLLOW him or OBEY him, and be the enemy of those who don't FOLLOW him or DISOBEY him".

 

The version of ghadir where it is said, Prophet s.a.w.w gave sermon of Ghadir to appoint Imam Ali a.s as caliph/successor after him, as per orders of Allah i.e Maida 67, is a clear fabrication.

In Maida 67 protection was given By Allah to His Prophet s.a.w.w against the disbelievers/kafirs.

[Maida 67] O Messenger, announce that which has been revealed to you from your Lord, and if you do not, then you have not conveyed His message. And Allah will protect you from the people. Indeed, Allah does not guide the disbelieving people.

At ghadir were there any kuffar (disbelievers)? Who also performed hajj along with Prophet s.a.w.w?


In fact, it was not the first time when Prophet s.a.w.w had declared those words about Imam Ali a.s. He s.a.w.w had also stated the same many days before the ghadir to one of his companion, when he expressed his anger about Ali in front of Prophet s.a.w.w.

أحمد في مسنده 22945

حدثنا الفضلُ بن دُكَينٍ، حدثنا ابن أَبي غَنِيَّةَ، عن الحَكَم، عن سعيد بن جُبَير، عن ابن عباس عن بُرَيدةَ، قال: غَزَوتُ مع عليٍّ اليمنَ، فرأَيتُ منه جَفْوةً، فلما قَدِمْتُ على رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ذَكَرْتُ عليّاً، فتَنَقَّصتُه، فرأَيتُ وجهَ رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يَتغيَّرُ، فقال: "يا بُرَيدةُ، أَلستُ أَوْلى بالمُؤمنِينَ من أَنفُسِهم؟" قلت: بلى يا رسول الله. قال: "من كنتُ مَوْلاه، فعليٌّ مَوْلاه".


Shaykh Mufid reported in Kitab al-Irshad pp.111-112

Buraida reported: "I wanted the earth to split open for me so that I could be swallowed into it. Then I said: I seek refuge in Allah from the anger of Allah and the anger of the Apostle of Allah. Apostle of Allah, forgive me. I will never hate Ali and I will only speak good of him." The Prophet forgave him.

 

Even Imam Ali a.s himself did not understood anything about caliphate/leadership.

Narrated `Abdullah bin `Abbas:

Ali bin Abu Talib came out of the house of Allah's Messenger during his fatal illness. The people asked, "O Abu Hasan (i.e. `Ali)! How is the health of Allah's Messenger this morning?" `Ali replied, "He has recovered with the Grace of Allah." `Abbas bin `Abdul Muttalib held him by the hand and said to him, "In three days you, by Allah, will be ruled (by somebody else ), And by Allah, I feel that Allah's Apostle will die from this ailment of his, for I know how the faces of the offspring of `Abdul Muttalib look at the time of their death. So let us go to Allah's Messenger and ask him who will take over the Caliphate. If it is given to us we will know as to it, and if it is given to somebody else, we will inform him so that he may tell the new ruler to take care of us." `Ali said, "By Allah, if we asked Allah's Apostle for it (i.e. the Caliphate) and he denied it us, the people will never give it to us after that. And by Allah, I will not ask Allah's Messenger for it." [Sahih al-Bukhari 4447]

 

Imam Shafai r.a words about ghadir. Same Imam Shafai who is famous for his words "If love for Muhammads ‘aal’ (family) is Rafdh (heresy). Then Jinn and Men bear witness I am a Rafidhi (heretic)." Being a Rafidhi he also had not considered ghadir in meaning of caliphate.

What is meant by that is the concept of love for the sake of Islam, as Allah says:{that is because Allah is the Mawla of those who believe, and the disbelievers have no Mawla (Qur’an 47: 11)}. So the hadith does not say that ‘Ali should be the caliph after the death of the Messenger of Allah, it indicates that ‘Ali is one of the close friends of Allah, to whom love and support is due for the sake of Allah. [Haqbat min al-tareekh P-187]

 

 

On 2/25/2017 at 3:10 PM, Hassan Y said:

@Fahad Sani

PROOF THAT SUNNIS DISTORTED ISLAM. ONLY 7 MINUTE VIDEO WATCH IT:

This is not a new thing. Same thing even happened to shia tafasir and other books. Even if its not mentioned in some tafasir. But It is in others. Moreover not everything in tafasir, like history and hadith books is authentic. In books there are many versions on dawat zil ashira. WHat Ammar Nakshwani is saying is not the only version/interpretation we have. It wasnt ordered to Prophet s.a.w.w to nominate or appoint his successor at that time but to invite your nearest kin. It was same like Prophet Isa a.s said who will be my supporter in my mission. On that Imam Ali a.s stood up.

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234974361-dawat-dhul-ashira/

http://www.recitequran.com/tafsir/en.ibn-kathir/26:214

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@Fahad Sani what you wrote just now doesn't stand a chance against everything that I wrote and all the evidence. The evidence I've shown is much stronger and much more sufficient to believe the imamat of Ali. I don't think you or anyone can refute my post, you would need a lot of hard evidence.

I'm not going to debate with you anymore because honestly it's pointless. You will never agree with us and we will never agree with you.

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On 2/26/2017 at 2:27 AM, power said:

Imam Ali (as) called Abu Baker and Umar as A LIARS, SINFULS, TREACHEROUS AND DISHONESTS

 

 

From Muslim:

Book 019, Number 4349:

It is reported by Zuhri that this tradition was narrated to him by Malik b. Aus who said: Umar b. al-Khattab sent for me and I came to him when the day had advanced. I found him in his house sitting on his bare bed-stead, reclining on a leather pillow. He said (to me): Malik, some people of your tribe have hastened to me (with a request for help). I have ordered a little money for them. Take it and distribute it among them. I said: I wish you had ordered somebody else to do this job. He said: Malik, take it (and do what you have been told). At this moment (his man-servant) Yarfa' came in and said: Commander of the Faithful, what do you say about Uthman, Abd al-Rabman b. 'Auf, Zubair and Sa'd (who have come to seek an audience with you)? He said: Yes, and permitted them. so they entered. Then he (Yarfa') came again and said: What do you say about 'Ali and Abbas (who are present at the door)? He said: Yes, and permitted them to enter. Abbas said: Commander of the Faithful, decide (the dispute) between me and this SINFUL, TREACHEROUS, DISHONEST LIAR. The people (who were present) also said: Yes. Commander of the Faithful, do decide (the dispute) and have mercy on them. Malik b. Aus said: I could well imagine that they had sent them in advance for this purpose (by 'Ali and Abbas). 'Umar said: Wait and be patient. I adjure you by Allah by Whose order the heavens and the earth are sustained, don't you know that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said:" We (prophets) do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity"? They said: Yes. Then he turned to Abbas and 'Ali and said: I adjure you both by Allah by Whose order the heavens and earth are sustained, don't you know that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said:" We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity"? They (too) said: Yes. (Then) Umar said: Allah, the Glorious and Exalted, had done to His Messenger (may peace be upon him) a special favour that He has not done to anyone else except him. He quoted the Qur'anic verse:" What Allah has bestowed upon His Apostle from (the properties) of the people of township is for Allah and His Messenger". The narrator said: I do not know whether he also recited the previous verse or not. Umar continued: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) distrbuted among you the properties abandoned by Banu Nadir. By Allah, he never preferred himself over you and never appropriated anything to your exclusion. (After a fair distribution in this way) this property was left over.

The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) would meet from its income his annual expenditure, and what remained would be deposited in the Bait-ul-Mal. (Continuing further) he said: I adjure you by Allah by Whose order the heavens and the earth are sustained. Do you know this? They said: Yes. Then he adjured Abbas and 'All as he had adjured the other persons and asked: Do you both know this? They said: Yes. He said: When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) passed away, Abu Bakr said:" I am the successor of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)." Both of you came to demand your shares from the property (left behind by the Messenger of Allah). (Referring to Hadrat 'Abbas), he said: You demanded your share from the property of your nephew, and he (referring to 'Ali) demanded a share on behalf of his wife from the property of her father. Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) had said:" We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity." SO BOTH OF YOU THOUGHT HIM TO BE A LIAR, SINFUL, TREACHEROUS AND DISHONEST. And Allah knows that he was true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. When Abu Bakr passed away and (I have become) the successor of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him), YOU THOUGHT ME TO BE A LIAR, SINFUL, TREACHEROUS AND DISHONEST. And Allah knows that I am true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. I became the guardian of this property. Then you as well as he came to me. Both of you have come and your purpose is identical. You said: Entrust the property to us. I said: If you wish that I should entrust it to you, it will be on the condition that both of you will undertake to abide by a pledge made with Allah that you will use it in the same way as the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used it. So both of you got it. He said: Wasn't it like this? They said: Yes. He said: Then you have (again) come to me with the request that I should adjudge between you. No, by Allah. I will not give any other judgment except this until the arrival of the Doomsday. If you are unable to hold the property on this condition, return it to me.

 

 

Brother, with this post you have again proved the thing, for which I got banned for three days.

Read the narration carefully, there is not a single direct statement of Imam Ali a.s in it. Except when he said YES in answer to a question.

It was actually Abbas r.a who first called Imam Ali a.s as liar, sinful, dishonest. And Umar a.s just repeated the same words of Abbas r.a in assumption. Meaning that if Abbas r.a view on Ali a.s is correct then Abu bakr a.s he himself to be also described as same. Abbas r.a said this since he was in dispute with Ali a.s regarding property. So was said by Umar a.s since at that time

If Imam Ali a.s really considered them as liars and sinful etc and kafir as well (based on other shia reports) then why he came to them in interest of justice.

Here in this narration Imam Ali a.s also testified that Prophets of Allah dont leave any inheritance, what they leave is charity.

In other versions of same incident such insulting words from Abbas to Ali are not mentioned.

Fadak was a land of sadaqah so it was not given to anyone. But Umar a.s gave Imam Ali a.s other lands, like land of Yanbu, which Imam Ali a.s gave as charity in his last will.

In Sunan al-Beihaqi al-Kubra we read:

عن جعفر بن محمد ، عن أبيه : أن علي بن أبي طالب قطع له عمر بن الخطاب – رضي الله عنهما – ينبع ، ثم اشترى علي بن أبي طالب – رضي الله عنه – إلى قطيعة عمر – رضي الله عنه – أشياء فحفر فيها عينا ، فبينا هم يعملون فيها إذ تفجر عليهم مثل عنق الجزور من الماء ، فأتي علي وبشر بذلك

[Ja`far bin Muhammad from Muhammad al-baqir that `Umar ibn al-Khattab gave `Ali bin abi Talib – may Allah be pleased with them – the land of Yanbu`, then `Ali bin abi Talib – may Allah be pleased with him – also bought other things on top of it, and he dug a well in it, and while they were digging in it a great amount of water started gushing out from the ground, so `Ali returned and told them the good news.]

So as per shia interpretation of events, Imam Ali a.s used to accept lands, share from war booty and other gifts from those whom he considered liars, sinful, dishonest, kafir etc. Same is the subject of OP. 

But Imam Ali bin Hussain Zainul Abidin a.s when came to know that Mukhtar Saqafi has adopted false creed, he a.s refused to accept any money or gifts from him.

ايضا از عمر بن على بن الحسين روايت كرده است كه اول مختار براى پدرم بيست هزار درهم فرستاد، پدرم قبول كرد، و خانه عقيل بن ابي طالب را و خانه‏هاى ديگر از بنى هاشم كه بنى اميه خراب كرده بودند پدرم به آن زر ساخت، چون مختار آن مذهب باطل را اختيار كرد، بعد از آن چهل هزار دينار براى پدرم فرستاد، پدرم از او قبول نكرد و رد كرد

It is narrated from Umar, the son of Zainul Abideen, that in the beginning, Mukhtar sent 20,000 dinar to my father, and my father took them, and rebuilt the homes of Aqeel ibn abi talib and other bani hashim which were destroyed by bani umayyah. And when Mukhtar adopted a false religion, and then he sent 40,000 dinar to my father, but he didn’t accept and returned it.

For more such reports refer Jilal ul Uyun of Baqir Majlisi, chapter on Mukhtar Saqafi.

 

Edited by Fahad Sani
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On 2/26/2017 at 5:19 PM, Aabiss_Shakari said:

I hope you are not victim of emotionalism.  Do you want to say that the whole ummah comes within the scope of Darood?  You realy believe that in Surah Ahzab where believers were directed to send salam to prophet pbuh were themselves also included in Darood? 

In Quran Allah swt commanded us to send salawat on Prophet s.a.w.w. In the same Quran Allah swt also commanded us to send greetings as Assalam o Alaikum to each other when we meet, which translate as peace be unto you. And we also send the same greetings to engraved people when we visit them.

In Aal e Muhammad, pious believers or followers are also included. Word aal is very broad in meaning. Word aal in Quran is also used in both meanings, i.e both for followers and for progeny and also for wives as well.

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1 hour ago, Hassan Y said:

@Fahad Sani what you wrote just now doesn't stand a chance against everything that I wrote and all the evidence. The evidence I've shown is much stronger and much more sufficient to believe the imamat of Ali. I don't think you or anyone can refute my post, you would need a lot of hard evidence.

I'm not going to debate with you anymore because honestly it's pointless. You will never agree with us and we will never agree with you.

Lets make it simple.

Shia version of ghadir starts with revelation of Maida 67. Sermon of ghadir is not yet delivered.

Maida 67 says:

۞ يَا أَيُّهَا الرَّسُولُ بَلِّغْ مَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِنْ رَبِّكَ ۖ وَإِنْ لَمْ تَفْعَلْ فَمَا بَلَّغْتَ رِسَالَتَهُ ۚ وَاللَّهُ يَعْصِمُكَ مِنَ النَّاسِ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الْكَافِرِينَ

Malik: O Rasool! Deliver the message which has been revealed to you from your Rabb, and if you do not, you are not doing justice to your mission. Allah will protect you from the mischief of the people. Rest assured that Allah will not let the unbelievers succeed against you.

Who were unbelievers/kuffar at that time. Who also performed hajj along with Prophet s.a.w.w.

Moreover if you read preceding and forwarding verses to Maida 67, you will find that they all are talking about Ahl al-Kitab. Which were unbelievers/kuffar.

No need to go further. Maida 67 itself enough to refute all shia claims about ghadir.

Edited by Fahad Sani
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On 3/2/2017 at 1:10 AM, Fahad Sani said:

Lets make it simple.

Shia version of ghadir starts with revelation of Maida 67. Sermon of ghadir is not yet delivered.

Maida 67 says:

۞ يَا أَيُّهَا الرَّسُولُ بَلِّغْ مَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِنْ رَبِّكَ ۖ وَإِنْ لَمْ تَفْعَلْ فَمَا بَلَّغْتَ رِسَالَتَهُ ۚ وَاللَّهُ يَعْصِمُكَ مِنَ النَّاسِ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الْكَافِرِينَ

Malik: O Rasool! Deliver the message which has been revealed to you from your Rabb, and if you do not, you are not doing justice to your mission. Allah will protect you from the mischief of the people. Rest assured that Allah will not let the unbelievers succeed against you.

Who were unbelievers/kuffar at that time. Who also performed hajj along with Prophet s.a.w.w.

Moreover if you read preceding and forwarding verses to Maida 67, you will find that they all are talking about Ahl al-Kitab. Which were unbelievers/kuffar.

No need to go further. Maida 67 itself enough to refute all shia claims about ghadir. You can also check isnad of reports saying Maida 67 was revealed at ghadir. You will also find liars and weak narrators in isnad. So from every angel maida 67 do not support shia version of ghadir.

First of all, all you're doing is trying to refute this verse when this is only 1% of my entire post.

Second, this is the real translation of the aya:

“O Messenger! Deliver what bas been revealed to you from your Lord; and if you do it not, then you have not delivered His message, and Allah will protect you from the people; surely Allah will not guide the unbelieving people.” [Surah al-Ma`idah 5:67]

The last sentence where Allah says "Surely Allah will not guide the unbelieving people." does not indicate that Allah was talking about the people that were present at Ghadir. Allah was telling everyone that he will not guide the unbelievers, just like many other verses in the Quran where He talks about something than changes the subject and affirms another statement. Another thing, notice how Allah said "people" instead of "unbelievers" when He Allah said "and Allah will protect you from the people".

If you think just by this sentence in a verse "surely Allah will not guide the unbelieving people.” refutes the entire incident of Ghadir and it's meaning, than you are so ignorant.

 

Many of your sunni scholars mentioned that this verse was revealed right after the speech of Ghadir Khum:

(1) Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Razi, under commentary of verse 5:67, v12, pp 49-50, narrated on the authorities of Ibn Abbas, al-Bara Ibn Azib, and Muhammad Ibn ‘Ali.

(2) Asbab al-Nuzool, by al-Wahidi, p50, narrated on the authorities of Atiyyah and Abu Sa’id al Khudri.

(3) Nuzul al-Qur’an, by al-Hafiz Abu Nu’aym narrated on the authorities Abu Sa’id Khudri and Abu Rafi.

(4) al-Fusool al Muhimmah, by Ibn Sabbagh al-Maliki al-Makki, p24

(5) Durr al-Manthur, by al-Hafiz al-Suyuti, under commentary of verse 5:67

(6) Fathul Qadir, by al-Shawkani, under commentary of verse 5:67

(7) Fathul Bayan, by Hasan Khan, under commentary of verse 5:67

(8) Shaykh Muhi al-Din al-Nawawi, under commentary of verse 5:67

(9) al-Sirah al-Halabiyah, by Noor al-Din al-Halabi, v3, p301

(10) Umdatul Qari fi Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari, by al-Ayni

(11) Tafsir al-Nisaboori, v6, p194

(12) and many more such as Ibn Mardawayh, etc...

 

Your most reputable scholars like Ibn Abi'l-Hadid and Sibt Ibn Jauzi said as well. 

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