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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Ali Emanoil Mustafa

Interracial marriage

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Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem

Selam dear brothers and sisters

i did not know where to post this lol so i posted it here haha.

so i am curious what are your opinions on interracial marriage ? and i know most people wont be against but i mean do you think we should marry our own culture so that we understand each other better or no ? do you think same culture marriage works best or it does not matter  ? 

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6 hours ago, notme said:

There is no such thing as race. Race is an imperialist social construct meant to divide "us" from "them". 

Intercultural marriage will require compromises and understanding, but it's not that difficult if the spouses respect each other. Any marriage requires compromise and understanding, but if the spouses share a culture at least they are more likely to agree on what to eat and how to interact with their communities. 

Race is absolutely real, as are tribes. And there is an "us" and there is a "them". It has always existed and it will continue to exist. And it is a good thing, it means humans are diverse in their nature.

O people, We have created you male and female and made you nations and tribes that you may know one another. Verily, the most noble of you to Allah is the most righteous of you. Verily, Allah is knowing and aware.

Surat Al-Hujurat 49:13

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:salam:

Verse quoted above is interesting, especially the part "so that you may know one another" which could bear two meanings :

-"so that you may get to know one another -and interact"

or

-"so that you may distinguish one another"

 

The latter meaning would go against mixed weddings and births while the former would allow it.

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4 hours ago, E.L King said:

Race is absolutely real, as are tribes. And there is an "us" and there is a "them". It has always existed and it will continue to exist. And it is a good thing, it means humans are diverse in their nature.

Be careful when you try to justify modern ideas of race from a Quranic verse that's talking about a different thing.

Having groups and subgroups based on nations and tribes as means of identity is not the same as accepting and justifying notions of race that didn't exist a couple of hundred years ago. Besides, we have hadiths that condemn many varieties of racism such as colourism and shadeism. We have the example of Bilal in Islam that comprehensively covers Islamic ideas of "race," which is not a flattering one.

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12 minutes ago, Marbles said:

Be careful when you try to justify modern ideas of race from a Quranic verse that's talking about a different thing.

Having groups and subgroups based on nations and tribes as means of identity is not the same as accepting and justifying notions of race that didn't exist a couple of hundred years ago. Besides, we have hadiths that condemn many varieties of racism such as colourism and shadeism. We have the example of Bilal in Islam that comprehensively covers Islamic ideas of "race," which is not a flattering one.

What do you mean notions of race? How is that different from having groups and subgroups? It's the exact same thing. What's the difference?

Furthermore I did not argue for racism, prejudice is very bad, I just said that humans are diverse. Having different races is a good thing. Why is that bad?

Allah created us in different colours, humankind is not all one group. We are different groups with different traditions and culture and language, and we identify by that, and that's a great thing as long as the Muslim identity comes first.

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3 hours ago, realizm said:

:salam:

Verse quoted above is interesting, especially the part "so that you may know one another" which could bear two meanings :

-"so that you may get to know one another -and interact"

or

-"so that you may distinguish one another"

 

The latter meaning would go against mixed weddings and births while the former would allow it.

Why did you think like that did Allah say anything about marraige here ? God did not prohibit marriage here. Hazrat Maria Qibtiya was Roman but was married to Prophet so please do not say like that. 

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4 hours ago, E.L King said:

O people, We have created you male and female and made you nations and tribes that you may know one another. Verily, the most noble of you to Allah is the most righteous of you. Verily, Allah is knowing and aware.

Surat Al-Hujurat 49:13

Correct, but the bold highlighted bits are key. 

Know one another. Not hate one another. Not to Divide and stay away from another. 

So brother Interracial marriage is great, as - long - as - you - make it work, like the other brothers and sisters have said in this forum. (And also like any other marriage!).  If you both are truly ones that love rely and look up to Allah and are true believers, race and culture will be easy to combine and work around and it could even be much make fun and amazing. 

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4 minutes ago, E.L King said:

What do you mean notions of race? How is that different from having groups and subgroups? It's the exact same thing. What's the difference?

You need to read up on the history of race and racism. The racial categories known today were devised, institutionalised, and promoted by the Western imperium not so long ago. There's no equivalence of that in history. None in Islamic history either.

Groups of people based on the ideas of nations, tribes, languages is fluid and ever changing and the ideas of race has no bearing on it.

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4 minutes ago, Marbles said:

Groups of people based on the ideas of nations, tribes, languages is fluid and ever changing and the ideas of race has no bearing on it.

That's what I'm promoting. And that's what sister @notme is talking about as far as I understood from her comment.

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Prophet PBUHHP said: "Whoever says calls himself to be belonging to this nation or that nation is not from among us". Nationalism is haram. Different faces and different languages are for eliminating identity crises and manifest variety in creation and not for hatred and spite. 

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The idea of humanity divided into"white", "colored", and "black" is not a real thing. It's an imperialist concept created by conquering Europeans to assert their seperateness and superiority over "non-white" people. 

Tribes and cultures do actually exist. Tribes are family groups, and cultures are groups of people with shared history. A married couple sharing a tribe or culture might eliminate some disagreements, but there are bound to be others in any marriage. Every marriage requires mutual respect regardless of whether spouses backgrounds are similar or different.

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3 hours ago, E.L King said:

What do you mean notions of race? How is that different from having groups and subgroups? It's the exact same thing. What's the difference?

Furthermore I did not argue for racism, prejudice is very bad, I just said that humans are diverse. Having different races is a good thing. Why is that bad?

Allah created us in different colours, humankind is not all one group. We are different groups with different traditions and culture and language, and we identify by that, and that's a great thing as long as the Muslim identity comes first.

As has been said above, it is pretty much fluid. Our genes is an enormous mix of several races, especially us Iraqis who have historically been in the middle of everywhere lol.

Even though I belong to X family within Y tribe, I am sure we have inherited genes both from the East and the West. Current races are a social construct not in the sense that there is no variety of genes, but in the sense that they refer to a fluid and somehow already outdated reality of the variety of human races. There are varely exclusive fenotypes in any race nowadays. So, in the end, identity matters a lot, and that's not up to your genes or your skin color. Two identities may match very well regardless of the color of their skin and their cultural background.

Edited by Bakir

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10 minutes ago, Bakir said:

As has been said above, it is pretty much fluid. Our genes is an enormous mix of several races, especially us Iraqis who have historically been in the middle of everywhere lol.

Even though I belong to X family within Y tribe, I am sure we have inherited genes both from the East and the West. Current races are a social construct not in the sense that there is no variety of genes, but in the sense that they refer to a fluid and somehow already outdated reality of the variety of human races. There are varely exclusive fenotypes in any race nowadays. So, in the end, identity matters a lot, and that's not up to your genes or your skin color. Two identities may match very well regardless of the color of their skin and their cultural background.

What does that have to do with Allah creating as different tribes and peoples and not just as one group?

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4 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

Why did you think like that did Allah say anything about marraige here ? God did not prohibit marriage here. Hazrat Maria Qibtiya was Roman but was married to Prophet so please do not say like that. 

Easy brother, indeed Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì did not speak about marriage in this verse. However we could be neutral and admit that the verse begins with the fact that He created us different in the first place. Then He spoke about knowing which will not be possible if everyone looks the same. 

I am absolutely not against mixed unions but I notice that this is an extremely sensitive topic. I think "racism" is in our Fitra like "machism" or "jealousy", which IMO are not bad unless they come in excessive ways.

Edit : by "racism" I mean something like "the idea to belong to a race or an ethnic origin" of course, not "xenophobia".

Edited by realizm

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Just now, realizm said:

Easy brother, indeed Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì did not speak about marriage in this verse. However we could be neutral and admit that the verse begins with the fact that He created us different in the first place. Then He spoke about knowing which will not be possible if everyone looks the same. 

I am absolutely not against mixed unions but I notice that this is an extremely sensitive topic. I think "racism" is in our Fitra like "machism" or "jealousy", which IMO are not bad unless they come in excessive ways.

Did I fight you that you are saying me to be easy :)

The problem that people do not marry because of their racism is because of their inclination towards ignorance and not because of God. Mix marriages were always there in Islam but racism did not prevent Muslims from marrying. Imam Hussain a.s married Iranian Princess and Iranians were thought along with African people as being lower creation by Arabs but for Imams racism was a filth and they did not care about it. 

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16 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Did I fight you that you are saying me to be easy :)

The problem that people do not marry because of their racism is because of their inclination towards ignorance and not because of God. Mix marriages were always there in Islam but racism did not prevent Muslims from marrying. Imam Hussain a.s married Iranian Princess and Iranians were thought along with African people as being lower creation by Arabs but for Imams racism was a filth and they did not care about it. 

I said easy because you almost made it sound like I spoke blasphemy :blush::)

I think the verse was indeed made to fight primary racism, but I do not see anything wrong by wanting to marry amongst your ethnic group.

Edited by realizm

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Just now, realizm said:

I said easy because you almost made it sound like I spoke blasphemy :blush:

I think the verse was indeed made to fight primary racism, but I do not see anything wrong by wanting to marry amongst your ethnic group.

Well, one should not add words which had not been mentioned in verses because Allah says to take what is given and do not take what is withheld by Prophets and Ahle bait a.s.

Well, I always wanted to marry from Japan or Russia or from Africa but there are many things as I am very demanding person and no one can fulfill my wishes so I left this idea to marry from outside from my ethnicity but it is ok for anyone to marry for outside. Islam allows it. :D

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49 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Well, one should not add words which had not been mentioned in verses because Allah says to take what is given and do not take what is withheld by Prophets and Ahle bait a.s.

Well, I always wanted to marry from Japan or Russia or from Africa but there are many things as I am very demanding person and no one can fulfill my wishes so I left this idea to marry from outside from my ethnicity but it is ok for anyone to marry for outside. Islam allows it. :D

Well that makes you a racist :) Just kidding. I guess a lot of people feel the same way as you do though.

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i agree that racism is bad and a primitive instict which has no place in a place where The Message of AllahÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì and the Ahlul-Bayt(AS) is known

But to say that Race does not exist ,this is indeed a modern day invention by all these white guilted americans.

Language is fluid lol , this sounds like the whole gender is fluid thing haha 

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7 hours ago, E.L King said:

What does that have to do with Allah creating as different tribes and peoples and not just as one group?

It matters in the sense that race is fluid and commonly mixed according to the races we have a name for. It matters in the sense that referring to races as "us" and "them" becomes vague and absolutely pointless when we want to prove a significant difference apart from the differing fenotypes.

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7 minutes ago, Bakir said:

It matters in the sense that race is fluid and commonly mixed according to the races we have a name for. It matters in the sense that referring to races as "us" and "them" becomes vague and absolutely pointless when we want to prove a significant difference apart from the differing fenotypes.

Yes we can refer to races as "us" and "them" and sometimes certain races are specifically referred to as "them or they or you".

The Israelities for example were a specific people that was talking about in the Holy Qur'an.

You can imagine human beings as one big rainbow group but unfortunately for you, we are diverse and there are many groups within us.

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10 minutes ago, E.L King said:

Yes we can refer to races as "us" and "them" and sometimes certain races are specifically referred to as "them or they or you".

The Israelities for example were a specific people that was talking about in the Holy Qur'an.

You can imagine human beings as one big rainbow group but unfortunately for you, we are diverse and there are many groups within us.

And so we have hadiths referring to Arabs, Romans and non-Arabs as groups.

Is the skin color the exclusive deciding characteristic that makes you belong to one group or another? Or is it rather your family background, education, religion, among other influences that build who you are? I tell you this because in life you meet people from a variety of races and fenotypes that are from India, China, Arabia, South America, etc. and you will realize they have absolutely nothing to do with the societies and cultures you may expect they are related to.

As a side note, unfortunately for you, the rainbow you seem to refer to precisely symbolizes diversity.

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35 minutes ago, Bakir said:

And so we have hadiths referring to Arabs, Romans and non-Arabs as groups.

Is the skin color the exclusive deciding characteristic that makes you belong to one group or another? Or is it rather your family background, education, religion, among other influences that build who you are? I tell you this because in life you meet people from a variety of races and fenotypes that are from India, China, Arabia, South America, etc. and you will realize they have absolutely nothing to do with the societies and cultures you may expect they are related to.

As a side note, unfortunately for you, the rainbow you seem to refer to precisely symbolizes diversity.

It's all of those things you mentioned including your ethnicity which creates a group.

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