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In the Name of God بسم الله

Cursing Umar

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:salam:

Fatimah (as) narrates this herself:4
Once and then twice theysend somebody to their house, for Imam 
Ali (as) to come to the masjid to pay allegiance to Abu Bakr. 
Omar came himself on the third time and said that I am going to 
burn the house and get Imam Ali (as) out. They said that this 
house belongs to Fatimah AlZahra (as),he said “ أن و ? ”This is the 
house that the Prophet (saaw) stayed for some months before his 
ascension. 
Then they break the wood to burn the house and us. I stood at the 
gate of the house. I appealed to them in the name of God and the 
name of the Prophet (saaw) leave us alone or help us. Omar took 
the whip of the slave of Abu Bakr and hit me so hard on my hard 
that it bruised so hard. He kicked the door against me so hard and 
I was pregnant and I fell down. They put the door to the fire and 
the heat was hurting my face. They struck me until my earing 
dropped. I felt the pain of the child birth and I aborted the child. 
Imam Ali (as) bathed and closed her during the night as he was 
bathing her. All of the sudden he stopped and he put his head 
against the door and crying. Why was he crying?

 

How can we not curse these people?

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The thing is, it is incredibly daft to tell a sunni brother/sister

"I won't curse your most revered symbol in islam after the prophet [saw], but you know, i'll go and do it privately"

Our ulema [sistani, kahamenei] when forbidding these sorts of things publicly have never said 'but go ahead and do it privately'.

I think whether you believe it is acceptable to do it , it is your viewpoint [i have heard all the views i am not here to debate that]. It is better not to curse or tell people to do it privately either.

Remain silent on the issue, it's better not to get involved in these things and keep your beliefs to yourself and let Allah be your judge, wherever you stand on this issue.

Edited by uponthesunnah
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What you get from cursing them ? in private or public ? 

I just hate them due to their  character but it is not necessary to public in that matter. The ibbadah of show off are not allowed in Islam. 

Imam Ali survive  with them otherwise what prevents him from taking the revange due to some reasons. 

Sunni people are not wrong because they heard from beginning that they are hero's.  And unfortunately they do not even read histor about them.

 

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1 hour ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

:salam:

Fatimah (as) narrates this herself:4
Once and then twice theysend somebody to their house, for Imam 
Ali (as) to come to the masjid to pay allegiance to Abu Bakr. 
Omar came himself on the third time and said that I am going to 
burn the house and get Imam Ali (as) out. They said that this 
house belongs to Fatimah AlZahra (as),he said “ أن و ? ”This is the 
house that the Prophet (saaw) stayed for some months before his 
ascension. 
Then they break the wood to burn the house and us. I stood at the 
gate of the house. I appealed to them in the name of God and the 
name of the Prophet (saaw) leave us alone or help us. Omar took 
the whip of the slave of Abu Bakr and hit me so hard on my hard 
that it bruised so hard. He kicked the door against me so hard and 
I was pregnant and I fell down. They put the door to the fire and 
the heat was hurting my face. They struck me until my earing 
dropped. I felt the pain of the child birth and I aborted the child. 
Imam Ali (as) bathed and closed her during the night as he was 
bathing her. All of the sudden he stopped and he put his head 
against the door and crying. Why was he crying?

 

How can we not curse these people?

Salaam All, 

Is there enough reliable evidence to say that all of the above happened? I have spent a lot of time thinking about this, and i came to think of it in the following way;

Mr. A goes into a shop and steals an item, and then swears at the shop keeper (Mr. B), and then Mr.B tries to stop him, but Mr. A shoves Mr. B aside and then walks out. 

Now if Mr C, who was another customer inside the shop and is now a witness, tells the police that Mr. A did all of the above things, BUT he also spat at Mr.B and then proceeded to beat Mr.B with a baseball bat, and whipped him with his belt, and THEN he walked out if the shop, then this is an addition, and is false. 

But does this make Mr. A any less of a criminal or at fault? No, ofcourse not. 

 

So, i have thought that the very violent and vivid description given by the OP is something i have tried very hard to accept as a complete fact, but i have not been able to do this. At the moment i have not been able to logically or just mentally agree with someone's wife being INTENTIONALLY whipped and beaten, and the husband not doing anything. 

However i do accept, given all the evidence and logic, that something happened, Ali a.s. and Fatima a.s. were threatened, the threat was made to burn the house down, and after a long time of looking at different materials, i even accept and find agreeable/possible that the door of the house may have been/was kicked or pushed, and Fatima a.s. got injured unintentionally, which lead to Fatima a.s. passing away at such a young age. (This is a real eye opener to the broken rib issue https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/nov/24/ms-dhu-died-from-complications-after-broken-rib-wa-inquest-hears - some people, including me, used to think, if a rib was broken, then how can someone die 6 months later? Then i read this article one day and my jaw dropped). 

May Allah's la'na be on the enemies of the Prophet and his family. 

Edited by YAli
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13 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Please quote the primary source

Ibn Qutaybah in al Imamah wa al Siyasa page 14 records that:

“Fatima said ‘When I meet my father the Prophet (s), then I shall complain about the both of you (Abu Bakr and Umar), and said to Abu Bakr ‘By Allah I shall curse you after every Salat”.
 Al-Imamah wa al-Siyasa, Vol. 1, Page 14

https://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=6373

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1 hour ago, uponthesunnah said:

Our ulema [sistani, kahamenei] when forbidding these sorts of things publicly have never said 'but go ahead and do it privately'.

Please do not include Ayatullah Sistani atleast. He has not said anything as such. That's your concoted version. 

 

1 hour ago, uponthesunnah said:

It is better not to curse or tell people to do it privately either.

Remain silent on the issue, it's better not to get involved in these things and keep your beliefs to yourself and let Allah be your judge, wherever you stand on this issue.

We should get involved and find out correct things and practice the same. Don't want to be like Abu Musa Ash'ari.

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1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

Some things really are best left unsaid.

Some things really need to be said especially when our people are taking things in a wrong way. 

We have come as far as respecting Dushmanan e Ahlulbait. What could be more worse. 

Edited by Lover of Ahlulbait (ams)
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1 hour ago, Who_Am_I said:

What you get from cursing them ? in private or public ? 

What you get from praying, fasting, hajj, etc. 

Love Allah just because he's deserving more than you can. 

Will do? 

Similar to prayers and fast and hajj and zakat, tawallah and Tabarrah are part of Furu e deen, which is wajib and cannot be sacrificed. 

 

1 hour ago, Who_Am_I said:

Sunni people are not wrong because they heard from beginning that they are hero's.  And unfortunately they do not even read histor about them.

Then that's their problem. There are sunnis who researched and found out the true path. There are ample examples. 

Edited by Lover of Ahlulbait (ams)
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Also there is

Al Khisal: Holy ProphetÕáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå:

I have cursed 7 types of people . Out of them one is that person who has harassed my Progeny(AhlulBayt).

They did harass the Ahlulbayt no doubt. I do not have Al Khisal in Arabic so I don't know if this refers to lanat or the other kinds of cursing. 

 

Mohabbat page 361

Imam Mohammad Baqir(AS) :

Wilayat and Love of AllahÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì is not acquired except by being enemy of many people(who are the enemy of Allah and Ahlebayt(AS) ) .

 

"Our Lord! Give them double Penalty and curse them with a very great Curse!"
 (Surah : 33 (Al-Ahzab), verse 68)

Great curse is referred to as لعنا الكبيرا.

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16 hours ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

:salam:

Fatimah (as) narrates this herself:4
Once and then twice theysend somebody to their house, for Imam 
Ali (as) to come to the masjid to pay allegiance to Abu Bakr. 
Omar came himself on the third time and said that I am going to 
burn the house and get Imam Ali (as) out. They said that this 
house belongs to Fatimah AlZahra (as),he said “ أن و ? ”This is the 
house that the Prophet (saaw) stayed for some months before his 
ascension. 
Then they break the wood to burn the house and us. I stood at the 
gate of the house. I appealed to them in the name of God and the 
name of the Prophet (saaw) leave us alone or help us. Omar took 
the whip of the slave of Abu Bakr and hit me so hard on my hard 
that it bruised so hard. He kicked the door against me so hard and 
I was pregnant and I fell down. They put the door to the fire and 
the heat was hurting my face. They struck me until my earing 
dropped. I felt the pain of the child birth and I aborted the child. 
Imam Ali (as) bathed and closed her during the night as he was 
bathing her. All of the sudden he stopped and he put his head 
against the door and crying. Why was he crying?

 

How can we not curse these people?

Source please? Where Fatima s.a herself narrated this.

Number 4 above suggest that its narration number 4 from book of sulaim. If it is then let me tell you this is nothing but weak.

 

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Brothers/sisters

Whether you believe it is permissible to ask Allah to do a certain thing to someone is your belief, i don't think there is any point debating that as we have our views on the issue.

But do you not think it is a little bit daft to tell people 'i won't curse x publicly, but i'm going to go and do it behind your back?'

If your belief entails you do a certain thing [and this is your own belief, i am not going to debate it and derail the thread], is it not better to simply remain absolutely silent on the issue, and not encourage others to do it privately, even if you believed so?

Is it not best to just keep views to yourself, given that asking people to do it privately and doing it yourself are identical, and our ulema have never said 'don't do it publicly but go ahead and do it privately'. Is there no wisdom behind why they haven't phrased it like that?

Do i need to be more explicit?

Edited by uponthesunnah
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On 2/9/2017 at 11:34 AM, starlight said:

If you understand Arabic please tell me the translation.

I thik whether Fatima (عليه السلام), the Ahlul Bayt asws cursed them or did not curse them, or whether someone believes it is allowed, or they fall into the camp where they say it is not something we ought to do, telling someone you are going to curse their most revered symbols behind their back is the same as outright cursing them.

It is better wherever we stand on the issue for or against, not to get involved in this and remain silent, neither advising others to curse, nor cursing [again, whatever our view on this issue is].

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The only narration that could be considered in this matter from ahlul sunnah hadith books is following one. As its authenticity is a disputed matter. Some says its hasan (not sahih) and other say its weak. While all other such type of narrations from ahlul sunnah books are terribly weak.

This narration is also used by anti umar website http://umar-ibn-khattab.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-broken-rib-of-fatima-zahra-as.html


Musnaf of Imam Ibn Abi Shebah, Volume 7 page 432 Tradition 37045:

"Narrated Muhammad bin Bashir from Ubaidllah bin Umar from Zaid bin Aslam that his father Aslam said: 'When the homage (baya) went to Abu Bakr after the Messenger of Allah, Ali and Zubair were entering into the house of Fatima to consult her and revise their issue, so when Umar came to know about that, he went to Fatima and said : 'Oh daughter of Messenger of Allah, no one is dearest to us more than your father and no one dearest to us after your father than you, I swear by Allah, if these people gathered in your house then nothing will prevent me from giving order to burn the house and those who are inside.' So when Umar left, they (Ali and Zubair) came , so she (Fatima) said to them: 'Do you know that Umar came here and swore by Allah to burn the house if you gather here, I swear by God that he (Umar) will execute his oath, so please leave wisely and take a decision and don't gather here again.' So they left her and didn't gather there till they give baya to Abu Bakr."

Lets say its authentic. Yet it does not support shia version. In fact it totally destroy all shia claims from top to bottom. How. Lets analyze. Read above narration carefully.

1- Umar r.a did not kill nor harm Fatima s.a.
2- The house was never burned.
3- Umar r.a spoke with kindness and respect to Fatima r.a. And expressed his love for Fatima s.a.
4- Umar r.a was very serious about the unity of the nation and told her that the two must give Bayah straight away so as to not create division between the Muslims.
5- Fatima s.a knew that Umar r.a was serious about this so she told Ali a.s and Zubair r.a that the wise action is for them to never come back until they have given allegiance to Abu Bakr r.a.
6- So they went and gave bayah.

 

As for killing the child of Fatima s.a, that is also not true, we know from the Sahih Hadith that he was born before the Prophet s.a.w.w even died, this is because the Prophet s.a.w.w himself named him.

عليبن أبي طالب رضي الله عنه قال : لمَّا ولد الحسن جـاء رسول الله صلى الله عليهوسلم فقال : أروني ابني ما سميتموه ؟ قلت : سمّيته حرباً ، قال : بل هـو حسن ،فلما ولد الحسين قال : أروني ابني ما سميتموه ؟ قلت سميته حرباً ، قال : بل هوحسين . فلما ولد الثالث جاء النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقال : أروني ابني ماسميتموه ؟ قلت حرباً ، قال : بل هو محسَّن ثم قال : إني سمّيتهم بأسماء ولد هارونشبّر وشُبَيْر ومشبّر

Ali bin Abi talib RA said: When al Hassan was born the Prophet PBUh came and said: Show me my boy,what have you named him? I said: I called him Harb, he said: Nay He is Hassan,When al Hussein was born the Prophet PBUH said: show me my boy, what have you named him? I said: Harb, he said: Nay he is Hussein, and when the third was born the Prophet PBUH came then said: Show me my boy, what have you named him? I said: Harb, He said: Nayhe is Muhassan, then He said: I have named them after the names of the children of Haroun(Aaron) they are Shibr,Shubeir, Mushabbar.

Musnad Ahmad 1/98, Isnad is SAHIH.

 

Ahlul Sunnah authentic sources do not support such false stories and myths. There is no any basis of such incidents in ahlul sunnah books except in weak and fabricated narrations which is as per rules of ilm e rijal and ilm e hadith.

Don't follow anything blindly. Do justice. Read Nisa 135 and Maida 8.

Edited by Fahad Sani
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Subhanallah. How quick people are to turn their backs on the Ahlulbayt (as). And I used to think this school was free from idiocy and hypocrisy. How is it that we who claim to be Shi'as are arguing whether the murders of Zahra (sa) should be cursed AT ALL. In public I can understand to an extent but not at all is denying Tabbarrah and denying Tabarrah is denying the Sunnah. For those who doubt my words, just look at the books of our hadith and see how our Imams (as) really spoke about their enemies. Our righteous scholars such as Sheikh al-Mufid were not afraid of revealing the disgusting traits of the enemies of Ahlulbayt (as) and nobody would dare say that he is the cause of bloodshed. Non-Shi'as know our views on their companions, so why humiliate our religion by pretending otherwise? Yet it is pointless arguing with some people as they love their marjas more than the Ahlulbayt (as) themselves. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, YAli said:

So, i have thought that the very violent and vivid description given by the OP is something i have tried very hard to accept as a complete fact, but i have not been able to do this. At the moment i have not been able to logically or just mentally agree with someone's wife being INTENTIONALLY whipped and beaten, and the husband not doing anything. 

Salaam brother,

What did Imam Sajjad (as) do from Karbala --> Kufa --> Shaam? Did he stand up and fight or stayed steadfast in his mission of perseverance. Imam Ali (as) promised the Prophet (saw) to suffer silently without raising his sword no matter what and that is exactly what he did.

Here is a poignant question for the rest of the people. Assuming the story of the burning door is correct and assuming it caused a miscarriage and assuming it ultimately caused Hz. Fatima (as) death - what is the difference between the perpetrator of this crime versus Yazeed who killed Imam Hussain (as)?

Surely, you want us to forget (if not forgive) the killer of Fatima (as) today so that you can convince us to forgive and forget the killers of Hussain (as) tomorrow.

Newsflash: We will neither forgive nor forget the killers of our Aimmah. Loving the Prophet (saw) and his progeny means you hate their enemies and their killers.

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26 minutes ago, uponthesunnah said:

Brothers/sisters

Whether you believe it is permissible to ask Allah to do a certain thing to someone is your belief, i don't think there is any point debating that as we have our views on the issue.

But do you not think it is a little bit daft to tell people 'i won't curse x publicly, but i'm going to go and do it behind your back?'

If your belief entails you do a certain thing [and this is your own belief, i am not going to debate it and derail the thread], is it not better to simply remain absolutely silent on the issue, and not encourage others to do it privately, even if you believed so?

Is it not best to just keep views to yourself, given that asking people to do it privately and doing it yourself are identical, and our ulema have never said 'don't do it publicly but go ahead and do it privately'. Is there no wisdom behind why they haven't phrased it like that?

Do i need to be more explicit?

The Prophet of Allah s.a.w.a.s. never practised his belief in private but openly. If one has to practice his beliefs in private something is not right.

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Cursing others isn't the akhlaq of Ahl al bayt (ams)

Remember that imam Ali said : Feed my killer what you're going to feed me.

Also Imam Ali (as) sent Imam Hussein and Hassan (ams) to protect Uthman and gave him water.

Edited by alHussein
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Just now, Hassan Y said:

@Fahad Sani are you forgetting that Fatima died angry with Abu bakr as what it states in sahih bukhari? And did the prophet not say "whoever angers Fatima angers me" ? If bukhari is almost 100% authentic to you Sunnis, than that should be proof that Omar oppressed Fatima. 

Its a totally different matter. You can not do qiyaas in such serious matters. Nothing is authentic on what OP have said. He might have copied from the source which is terribly weak. See my first post on this thread. In the field of knowledge and evidences there is no value of emotions and assumptions.

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11 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

The only narration that could be considered in this matter from ahlul sunnah hadith books is following one. As its authenticity is a disputed matter. Some says its hasan (not sahih) and other say its weak. While all other such type of narrations from ahlul sunnah books are terribly weak.

This narration is also used by anti umar website http://umar-ibn-khattab.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-broken-rib-of-fatima-zahra-as.html


Musnaf of Imam Ibn Abi Shebah, Volume 7 page 432 Tradition 37045:

"Narrated Muhammad bin Bashir from Ubaidllah bin Umar from Zaid bin Aslam that his father Aslam said: 'When the homage (baya) went to Abu Bakr after the Messenger of Allah, Ali and Zubair were entering into the house of Fatima to consult her and revise their issue, so when Umar came to know about that, he went to Fatima and said : 'Oh daughter of Messenger of Allah, no one is dearest to us more than your father and no one dearest to us after your father than you, I swear by Allah, if these people gathered in your house then nothing will prevent me from giving order to burn the house and those who are inside.' So when Umar left, they (Ali and Zubair) came , so she (Fatima) said to them: 'Do you know that Umar came here and swore by Allah to burn the house if you gather here, I swear by God that he (Umar) will execute his oath, so please leave wisely and take a decision and don't gather here again.' So they left her and didn't gather there till they give baya to Abu Bakr."

Lets say its authentic. Yet it does not support shia version. In fact it totally destroy all shia claims from top to bottom. How. Lets analyze. Read above narration carefully.

1- Umar r.a did not kill nor harm Fatima s.a.
2- The house was never burned.
3- Umar r.a spoke with kindness and respect to Fatima r.a. And expressed his love for Fatima s.a.

4- Umar r.a was very serious about the unity of the nation and told her that the two must give Bayah straight away so as to not create division between the Muslims.
5- Fatima s.a knew that Umar r.a was serious about this so she told Ali a.s and Zubair r.a that the wise action is for them to never come back until they have given allegiance to Abu Bakr r.a.
6- So they went and gave bayah.

 

Salam

So Imam Ali A.S and the Ahlulbayt A.S didn't know what the wisest option would be? And Umar threatening to burn their house is not a problem at all, just a "wise advise"? This does not in any way "destroy" all the Shia claim, rather this shows the wrong actions that was done after the Prophet's S.A.W death and the fact that the Ahlulbayt A.S was not happy with Abu Bakr's caliphate. You have to either accept that the caliphate was usurped and that were one of the reasons Imam Ali A.S stayed away from them, or you'll have to accept as your own copy paste says, that Imam Ali A.S was threatening to create division between the muslims if he didn't give bayah (and the reason would be that he was simply just not happy because he didn't get the caliphate himself, as the Ahlul Sunnah believe). So either Imam Ali A.S stayed away from them because there was a wise reason (like Shias believe that he was already chosen as an Imam) , or he (a.s) stayed away just because he simply wasn't happy and at the same time threatening the unity...

 

Also regarding the last part, it says that Imam Ali A.S gave bayah yes, but it doesn't say that he gave bayah because he was happy with Abu Bakr as the caliph. It shows that they had to threaten him to get his bayah, this doesn't sound good does it?

“Abu Ja’far (as) has said that: ‘The people, when they did what they did, they pledged their allegiances to Abu Bakr, nothing prevented Ameer al-Mu’mineen (as) calling the people to himself except that he looked around at the people and feared for them that they would renege from Islam, and resort to worshipping the idols and not testify that there is no god except Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì and that Mohammed Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå is the Messenger of Allah, and it was more beloved to him (as) than he should agree with them upon what they had done rather than them reneging against the whole of Islam.
But rather, destroyed is the one who does what they did. So, as for the one who did not do that, and entered into what the people had entered into without knowledge or enmity against Ameer al-Mu’mineen (as), so for that they have neither blasphemed nor exited from Islam, and it is for that reason that Ali (as) concealed his matter, and had to pledge allegiance unwillingly, when he did not find any helpers’.”

Sanad: Humeyd Bin Ziyad, from Al-Hassan Bin Muhammad Al-Kindy, from someone else, from Abaan Bin Usmaan, from Al-Fazel, from Zurara

Source: Kitab Al-Kaafi, Volume 8, Hadith #14902

Grading:
– Bahboody – Sahih بهبودي صحيح
– Majlisi, As Reliable مجلسي كالموثق [Mira’at Al-Uqool, Alammah Majlisi, Volume 26, Page 326] (See Image)

 

 

 

An interesting narration that could shed some more light on the issue:

This is the full narration as recorded by al-Diya al-Maqdisi in his al-Ahadith al-Mukhtarat 1/88:

أخبرنا أبو الفخر أسعد بن سعيد بن محمود الأصبهاني قراءة ونحن نسمع بأصبهان قيل له أخبرتكم فاطمة بنت عبد الله الجوزدانية قراءة عليها وأنت تسمع أنا محمد بن عبدالله بن زيد أنا أبو القاسم سليمان بن أحمد الطبراني ثنا أبو الزنباع روح بن الفرج المصري ثنا سعيد بن عفير حدثني علوان بن داود البجلي عن حميد بن عبدالرحمن بن حميد بن عبدالرحمن بن عوف عن صالح بن كيسان عن حميد بن عبدالرحمن عن أبيه قال دخلت الأحاديث المختارة على أبي بكر رضي الله عنه أعوده في مرضه الذي توفي فيه فسلمت عليه وسألته كيف أصبحت فاستوى جالسا فقلت أصبحت بحمد الله بارئا فقال أما إني على ما ترى وجع وجعلتم لي شغلا مع وجعي جعلت لكم عهدا من بعدي واخترت لكم خيركم في نفسي فجلكم ورم لذاك أنفه رجاء أن يكون الأمر له ورأيت الدنيا قد أقبلت ولما تقبل وهي جائية وستنجدون بيوتكم ستور الحرير ونضائد الديباج وتألمون ضجائع الصوف الأذري كأن أحدكم على حسك السعدان ووالله لأن يقدم أحدكم فتضرب عنقه في غير حد خير له من أن يسبح في غمرة الدنيا ثم قال: أما إني لا آسي على شيء إلا على ثلاث فعلتهن وددت أني لم أفعلهن وثلاث لم أفعلهن وددت أني فعلتهن وثلاث وددت أني سألت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم عنهن فأما الثلاث اللاتي وددت أني لم أفعلهن فوددت أني لم أكن كشفت بيت فاطمة أو تركته وأن أعلق على الحرب وددت أني يوم سقيفة بني ساعدة كنت قدفت الأمر في عنق أحد الرجلين أبو عبيدة أو عمر فكان أمير المؤمنين وكنت وزيرا ووددت أني حيث كنت وجهت خالد بن الوليد إلى أهل الردة أقمت بذي القصة فإن ظفر المسلمون ظفروا وإلا كنت ردءا ومددا وأما اللاتي وددت أني فعلتها .

Abubakr said:

I wish I never violated or abandoned the house of Fatima even if she had waged a war against me. I wish that on the day of Saqifah I had placed the affair (i.e. caliphate) on the neck of either Abu Ubaydah or Umar so that such would be the Commander of the Believers while I remained his vizier. I wish I had not sent Khalid ibn Walid towards the people of apostasy.

The margin writer of al-Ahadith al-Mukhtarat states that all its narrations are sahih. Imam al-Suyuti in his Tadrib al-Rawi 1/144 states:

ومنهم الحافظ ضياء الدين محمد بن الواحد المقدسي جمع كتاباً سمّاه المختارة التزم فيه الصحة، وذكر فيه أحاديث لم يسبق إلى تصحيحها

http://www.wilayat.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2771:abubakr-regrets-on-his-deathbed&catid=191&lang=en&Itemid=115

 

Anyhow the hadith in the quote does not in any way portray all the points given in the quote, rather it shows that after everything the Prophet S.A.W had said about Imam Ali A.S and the Ahlulbayt A.S, people still had the guts to threaten to burn their own home. And not only that, now people are trying to justify that as well?

 

I don't disagree that many narrations regarding this incident may be fabricated and some things overreacted, however at the same time we can't keep a blind eye on this. 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, uponthesunnah said:

I thik whether Fatima a.s, the ahlulbayt asws cursed them or did not curse them, or whether someone believes it is allowed, or they fall into the camp where they say it is not something we ought to do, telling someone you are going to curse their most revered symbols behind their back is the same as outright cursing them.

It is better wherever we stand on the issue for or against, not to get involved in this and remain silent, neither advising others to curse, nor cursing [again, whatever our view on this issue is].

Well said brother, couldn't agree more!

Edited by The Straight Path
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I believe Imam Ali a.s. was a man of principles. If giving bayah was the wrong thing to do he a.s. surely would not have done it.

I believe in the middle option. The rights of the Household a.s. were violated and not respected in some ways but this only affected them a.s. and not the Ummah as a whole.

This shows how noble the members of the Household a.s. were. They would put their own rights aside if this could benefit or protect the Ummah.

This was the reason for the behaviour of Imam Ali a.s. and made him a.s. only more virtuous in my eyes.

Edited by Talut
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8 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

Its a totally different matter. You can not do qiyaas in such serious matters. Nothing is authentic on what OP have said. He might have copied from the source which is terribly weak. See my first post on this thread. In the field of knowledge and evidences there is no value of emotions and assumptions.

She was angry with Abu bakr because of what he and Omar did to her in her house. Why else would she be angry at him? That's enough to realize that these individuals hurt and oppressed her in her home. Im not sure why you are trying to defend Omar by saying he didn't do anything to her.

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