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In the Name of God بسم الله

[Closed/Review]HELP!! Where does Allah say Bible is Corrupt?

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25 minutes ago, andres said:

and different from what the Quran prescribes. 

No, We havent calculated different than quran, there are prioritize that should be paid first.

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As for direct and explicit quotations from the Qur'an that says that the Torah is corrupt, that does not exist in those words. Our conclusions on its corruption is a result of a lot of corroborating e

SalamAlaykum Brothers and Sister,  I hope you are all well I was wondering if someone can tell me where in the Quran it says that the Old and New Testament is Corrupt. Because Muslims s

People differ. I am not very interested in how to bake cakes and would never attend to such forums. Neither am I offended or disturbed by others criticising my religious faith. (I could be if it was i

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1 hour ago, Son of Placid said:

You didn't like it, you ignored it, whatever.

Your answer was not related to the question, let alone liking or not liking it.

You can do the thing that you always do : running.

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10 hours ago, Arminmo said:

No, We havent calculated different than quran, there are prioritize that should be paid first.

If Shias have calculated correct, Sunnies have calculated wrong. Sunnies will say they calculated correctly. This situation had not occutred if the Quranic shares had been correct. Maybe you understand, maybe you dont, ether way you will never admit there is an error, and I will always say there is. Shall we stop here?

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15 hours ago, Arminmo said:

Your answer was not related to the question, let alone liking or not liking it.

You can do the thing that you always do : running.

It was directly related. You can call it whatever you like...and do.

You are expanding the meaning of "running". It's a common thing these days to expand the meaning of words. There are a few reasons for it. Salesmen, Politicians, Professionals do it to create a new concept, conjure interest, and distract from the fine print. Youth of high school age often need to re code so the parents don't catch the actual meaning of their conversations. In your case it's the rubber/glue rhyme from elementary. Here's why;

What was meant by "running" is when you are hit with a fact your mind can't process and you need time to ignore it so you search for distractions, counter attacks on the source.

You see In my case, I may be retired but I have a tractor and a lawn mower, and 7 acres that need one or the other. I don't SC from work, I'm not at your beck and call, and see no reason to spend any more time flogging your dead horse. 

You may have the last word.

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13 hours ago, andres said:

If Shias have calculated correct, Sunnies have calculated wrong. Sunnies will say they calculated correctly.

Because if they accept that our method is right, this will open the door to think about other things also, so they won’t take the first shot.

by the way, what kind of a logic is that : approval of something should be done “through” Sunnis ??!! 

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Simon of Cyrene

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The fifth Station of the Cross, showing Simon of Cyrene helping Christ carry his cross. St. Raphael's CathedralDubuque, Iowa.
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Painting by Rubens depicting scene from Luke 23:26 "And as they led him away they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian, coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross that he might bear it after Jesus."

Simon of Cyrene /sˈrni/ (Hebrewשמעון‎ "Hearkening; listening", Standard Hebrew ŠimʿonTiberian Hebrew ŠimʿônGreekΣίμων ΚυρηναῖοςSimōn Kyrēnaios) was the man compelled by the Romans to carry the cross of Jesus as Jesus was taken to his crucifixion, according to all three Synoptic Gospels.[1][2][3] "And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross."[2]

 

Simon the Zealot - Mystery Apostle

https://www.thoughtco.com/simon-the-zealot-mystery-apostle-701071

Profile of Simon the Zealot, Disciple of Jesus

  • Three Apostles
 From left to right: Matthew, Thaddeus (Jude), and Simon the Zealot at the last supper in Jerusalem. Photo: Getty Images
Updated March 17, 2017

Simon the Zealot, one of Jesus Christ's 12 apostles, is a mystery character in the Bible. We have one tantalizing bit of information about him, which has led to ongoing debate among Bible scholars.

In some versions of the Bible (Amplified Bible), he is called Simon the Cananaean. In the King James Version and New King James Version, he is called Simon the Canaanite or Cananite. In the English Standard Version, New American Standard Bible, New International Version, and New Living Translation he is called Simon the Zealot.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_of_Cyrene

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On 2/8/2017 at 3:17 PM, amirhosein_88 said:

Salamun alaykum.

- 2: 75:

أَ فَتَطْمَعُونَ أَنْ يُؤْمِنُوا لَكُمْ وَ قَدْ كانَ فَريقٌ مِنْهُمْ يَسْمَعُونَ كَلامَ اللَّهِ ثُمَّ يُحَرِّفُونَهُ مِنْ بَعْدِ ما عَقَلُوهُ وَ هُمْ يَعْلَمُونَ (75)
Are you then eager that they should believe you, though a part of them would hear the word of Allah and then they would distort it after they had understood it, and they knew] what they were doing ?

- 2: 79:

فَوَيْلٌ لِلَّذينَ يَكْتُبُونَ الْكِتابَ بِأَيْديهِمْ ثُمَّ يَقُولُونَ هذا مِنْ عِنْدِ اللَّهِ لِيَشْتَرُوا بِهِ ثَمَناً قَليلاً فَوَيْلٌ لَهُمْ مِمَّا كَتَبَتْ أَيْديهِمْ وَ وَيْلٌ لَهُمْ مِمَّا يَكْسِبُونَ (79)
So woe to those who write the Book with their hands and then say," This is from Allah," that they may sell it for a paltry gain. So woe to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for what they earn!

- 3: 78:

وَ إِنَّ مِنْهُمْ لَفَريقاً يَلْوُونَ أَلْسِنَتَهُمْ بِالْكِتابِ لِتَحْسَبُوهُ مِنَ الْكِتابِ وَ ما هُوَ مِنَ الْكِتابِ وَ يَقُولُونَ هُوَ مِنْ عِنْدِ اللَّهِ وَ ما هُوَ مِنْ عِنْدِ اللَّهِ وَ يَقُولُونَ عَلَى اللَّهِ الْكَذِبَ وَ هُمْ يَعْلَمُونَ (78)
There is indeed a group of them who twist their tongues to mimic the Book, that you may suppose that it is from the Book, though it is not from the Book, and they say," It is from Allah," though it is not from Allah, and they attribute lies to Allah, and they know] it [.

- 4: 46:

مِنَ الَّذينَ هادُوا يُحَرِّفُونَ الْكَلِمَ عَنْ مَواضِعِهِ وَ يَقُولُونَ سَمِعْنا وَ عَصَيْنا وَ اسْمَعْ غَيْرَ مُسْمَعٍ وَ راعِنا لَيًّا بِأَلْسِنَتِهِمْ وَ طَعْناً فِي الدِّينِ وَ لَوْ أَنَّهُمْ قالُوا سَمِعْنا وَ أَطَعْنا وَ اسْمَعْ وَ انْظُرْنا لَكانَ خَيْراً لَهُمْ وَ أَقْوَمَ وَ لكِنْ لَعَنَهُمُ اللَّهُ بِكُفْرِهِمْ فَلا يُؤْمِنُونَ إِلاَّ قَليلاً (46)
Among the Jews are those who pervert words from their meanings and say," We hear and disobey" and" Hear without listening!" and" Ra" ina," twisting their tongues and reviling the faith. But had they said," We hear and obey" and" Listen" and" Unzurna," it would have been better for them, and more upright. But Allah has cursed them for their faithlessness, so they will not believe except a few.

- 5: 13:

فَبِما نَقْضِهِمْ ميثاقَهُمْ لَعَنَّاهُمْ وَ جَعَلْنا قُلُوبَهُمْ قاسِيَةً يُحَرِّفُونَ الْكَلِمَ عَنْ مَواضِعِهِ وَ نَسُوا حَظًّا مِمَّا ذُكِّرُوا بِهِ وَ لا تَزالُ تَطَّلِعُ عَلى‏ خائِنَةٍ مِنْهُمْ إِلاَّ قَليلاً مِنْهُمْ فَاعْفُ عَنْهُمْ وَ اصْفَحْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُحْسِنينَ (13)
Then, because of their breaking their covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard: they pervert words from their meanings, and have forgotten a part of what they were reminded. You will not cease to learn of some of their treachery, excepting a few of them. Yet excuse them and forbear. Indeed Allah loves the virtuous.

-5: 41:

يا أَيُّهَا الرَّسُولُ لا يَحْزُنْكَ الَّذينَ يُسارِعُونَ فِي الْكُفْرِ مِنَ الَّذينَ قالُوا آمَنَّا بِأَفْواهِهِمْ وَ لَمْ تُؤْمِنْ قُلُوبُهُمْ وَ مِنَ الَّذينَ هادُوا سَمَّاعُونَ لِلْكَذِبِ سَمَّاعُونَ لِقَوْمٍ آخَرينَ لَمْ يَأْتُوكَ يُحَرِّفُونَ الْكَلِمَ مِنْ بَعْدِ مَواضِعِهِ يَقُولُونَ إِنْ أُوتيتُمْ هذا فَخُذُوهُ وَ إِنْ لَمْ تُؤْتَوْهُ فَاحْذَرُوا وَ مَنْ يُرِدِ اللَّهُ فِتْنَتَهُ فَلَنْ تَمْلِكَ لَهُ مِنَ اللَّهِ شَيْئاً أُولئِكَ الَّذينَ لَمْ يُرِدِ اللَّهُ أَنْ يُطَهِّرَ قُلُوبَهُمْ لَهُمْ فِي الدُّنْيا خِزْيٌ وَ لَهُمْ فِي الْآخِرَةِ عَذابٌ عَظيمٌ (41)
O Apostle! Do not grieve for those who are active in] promoting [unfaith, such as those who say," We believe" with their mouths, but whose hearts have no faith, and the Jews who eavesdrop with the aim of] telling [lies] against you [and eavesdrop for other people who do not come to you. They pervert words from their meanings,] and [say," If you are given this, take it, but if you are not given this, beware!" Yet whomever Allah wishes to mislead, you cannot avail him anything against Allah. They are the ones whose hearts Allah did not desire to purify. For them is disgrace in this world, and there is a great punishment for them in the Hereafter.)

 

Thanks so much for your detailed list of verses. Appreciate that very much! But I still do not see any verses that explicitly say that the Injeel is corrupt, except that the "people" changed the meaning of distorted the meaning, or perverted the words from the meanings.

If you have any other verses, we would appreciate that. Thanks !

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On 2/8/2017 at 10:02 AM, MohammadAli1993 said:

SalamAlaykum Brothers and Sister, 

I hope you are all well

I was wondering if someone can tell me where in the Quran it says that the Old and New Testament is Corrupt.

Because Muslims say that the Injeel and Torah was changed but where does it say that in the Quran.

Alaykum el selaam.

It is the Christian scholars, most of the time, who say or admit it.

It is known and you could ask almost any priest or someone similar, that the Pure Divine Message brought through Jesus / Isa (PBUH) is not the same as what we can find today in the Old as well as the New Testament. That while they are very much divided. Any church can feel free to give their ideas about all sorts of things for example about whether or not there is a Hell. That tells you something, if they are so divided and still agree on this point.

pay attention. Some will say it only changed a little because of mistakes (in writing or something else) or because that it has been translated.

But there is solid proof that people who purposely wanted to change the Message for their '' benefit '' did do so. People with money or power or status did that, even 300 years later. This is the truth.

_____________________________

So if one realizes this... what is the worth of the bible then? It could have been you or me who have changed it, bit by bit. And this is going to give problems if you want to use something out of the bible as a proof for example, defending modern Christianity.

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I think that the Bible is Authentic. Let's look at some verses from the Holy Quran.

First let's look at these verses confirm what was revealed before:

Quote

ذَٰلِكَ الْكِتَابُ لَا رَيْبَ ۛ فِيهِ ۛ هُدًى لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ - 2:2

This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah

الَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالْغَيْبِ وَيُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنَاهُمْ يُنفِقُونَ - 2:3

Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them,

وَالَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ وَمَا أُنزِلَ مِن قَبْلِكَ وَبِالْآخِرَةِ هُمْ يُوقِنُونَ - 2:4

And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith].

and in another passage:

Quote

وَالَّذِي أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ هُوَ الْحَقُّ مُصَدِّقًا لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ بِعِبَادِهِ لَخَبِيرٌ بَصِيرٌ - 35:31

And that which We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], of the Book is the truth, confirming what was before it. Indeed, Allah, of His servants, is Acquainted and Seeing.

Also this passage:

Quote

وَإِذْ آتَيْنَا مُوسَى الْكِتَابَ وَالْفُرْقَانَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَهْتَدُونَ - 2:53

And [recall] when We gave Moses the Scripture and criterion that perhaps you would be guided.

Now let's look at passages mentioning the scriptures that the people of the past have:

Quote

يَا بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ اذْكُرُوا نِعْمَتِيَ الَّتِي أَنْعَمْتُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَأَوْفُوا بِعَهْدِي أُوفِ بِعَهْدِكُمْ وَإِيَّايَ فَارْهَبُونِ - 2:40

O Children of Israel, remember My favor which I have bestowed upon you and fulfill My covenant [upon you] that I will fulfill your covenant [from Me], and be afraid of [only] Me.

وَآمِنُوا بِمَا أَنزَلْتُ مُصَدِّقًا لِّمَا مَعَكُمْ وَلَا تَكُونُوا أَوَّلَ كَافِرٍ بِهِ ۖ وَلَا تَشْتَرُوا بِآيَاتِي ثَمَنًا قَلِيلًا وَإِيَّايَ فَاتَّقُونِ - 2:41

And believe in what I have sent down confirming that which is [already] with you, and be not the first to disbelieve in it. And do not exchange My signs for a small price, and fear [only] Me.

وَلَا تَلْبِسُوا الْحَقَّ بِالْبَاطِلِ وَتَكْتُمُوا الْحَقَّ وَأَنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ - 2:42

And do not mix the truth with falsehood or conceal the truth while you know [it].

The Quran also tells Muslims to believe in those previous scriptures:

Quote

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا آمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ وَالْكِتَابِ الَّذِي نَزَّلَ عَلَىٰ رَسُولِهِ وَالْكِتَابِ الَّذِي أَنزَلَ مِن قَبْلُ ۚ وَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِاللَّهِ وَمَلَائِكَتِهِ وَكُتُبِهِ وَرُسُلِهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ ضَلَالًا بَعِيدًا - 4:136

O you who have believed, believe in Allah and His Messenger and the Book that He sent down upon His Messenger and the Scripture which He sent down before. And whoever disbelieves in Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers, and the Last Day has certainly gone far astray.

But the Quran does tell the people of the scripture to read all of their scriptures:

Quote

يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ قَدْ جَاءَكُمْ رَسُولُنَا يُبَيِّنُ لَكُمْ كَثِيرًا مِّمَّا كُنتُمْ تُخْفُونَ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ وَيَعْفُو عَن كَثِيرٍ ۚ قَدْ جَاءَكُم مِّنَ اللَّهِ نُورٌ وَكِتَابٌ مُّبِينٌ - 5:15

O People of the Scripture, there has come to you Our Messenger making clear to you much of what you used to conceal of the Scripture and overlooking much. There has come to you from Allah a light and a clear Book.

Now, there is mention of people saying things are from God but they are not:

Quote

فَوَيْلٌ لِّلَّذِينَ يَكْتُبُونَ الْكِتَابَ بِأَيْدِيهِمْ ثُمَّ يَقُولُونَ هَٰذَا مِنْ عِندِ اللَّهِ لِيَشْتَرُوا بِهِ ثَمَنًا قَلِيلًا ۖ فَوَيْلٌ لَّهُم مِّمَّا كَتَبَتْ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَوَيْلٌ لَّهُم مِّمَّا يَكْسِبُونَ - 2:79

So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.

The above verse is referring to the Jewish Rabbis during the time of the Prophet who wanted to please the rich and dispute what the Prophet had mentioned.

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4 minutes ago, megaman said:

The above verse is referring to the Jewish Rabbis during the time of the Prophet who wanted to please the rich and dispute what the Prophet had mentioned.

this is because you want verify Baha'u'Allah as Isa (as) that return & if he was Isa (as) & bible was intact why he brings a new book after final Divine book.:einstein::book::respect:

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1 hour ago, megaman said:

I think that the Bible is Authentic. Let's look at some verses from the Holy Quran.

First let's look at these verses confirm what was revealed before:

and in another passage:

Also this passage:

Now let's look at passages mentioning the scriptures that the people of the past have:

The Quran also tells Muslims to believe in those previous scriptures:

But the Quran does tell the people of the scripture to read all of their scriptures:

Now, there is mention of people saying things are from God but they are not:

The above verse is referring to the Jewish Rabbis during the time of the Prophet who wanted to please the rich and dispute what the Prophet had mentioned.

Quote : "I think that the Bible is Authentic"

What? From which day the Bible is authentic for Baha'is? For Baha'is only Quran is "Completely authentic repository of words of God" and for Quran also they interpret it so as to suit them and profit them.

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9 hours ago, Badi19 said:

What? From which day the Bible is authentic for Baha'is?

Hi @Badi19, I don't it's relevant to this thread but I'll answer. As a Baha'i I believe the Bible to be true.

Quote

And should they reply: “The Books that are in the hands of this people, which they call the Gospel and attribute to Jesus, the Son of Mary, have not been revealed by God and proceed not from the Manifestations of His Self", then this would imply a cessation in the abounding grace of Him Who is the Source of all grace. If so, God’s testimony to His servants would have remained incomplete and His favour proven imperfect. His mercy would not have shone resplendent, nor would His grace have overshadowed all. For if at the ascension of Jesus His Book had likewise ascended unto heaven, then how could God reprove and chastise the people on the Day of Resurrection, as hath been written by the Imams of the Faith and affirmed by its illustrious divines?
(Bahá’u’lláh, Gems of Divine Mysteries, p. 12-13)

 

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Why does the Quran never say the Bible is corrupted? As I see it the answer is that since there were no Bibles translated into Arabic language,  knowledge of the Biblical text was based on hearsay. Hearsay is never exact, which also explains why the Quran differ in details about Biblical personalities. 

The quotes of Jesus we find in the Gospels are not preserved exactly as Jesus said them. The Gospels are in Greek and Jesus spoke Aramæic. But translation is not necessarily corruption.  We read the Quran in English. Some Quranic translations have interpolations in brackets. This we can call corruption. 

How different is the texts of todays Bible and Quran from the first written sources? Even if probably not perfectly preserved, the messages have not been distorted. The messages of Muhammed and Jesus were never exactly the same, which is the reason for Muslims claiming the Bible is corrupted, and Christians claiming the Quran is not from God.

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12 hours ago, megaman said:

Hi @Badi19, I don't it's relevant to this thread but I'll answer. As a Baha'i I believe the Bible to be true.

 

The Bible is not wholly authentic...

Quote

"...the friends should unhesitatingly, and for reasons that are only too obvious, give precedence to the sayings of Bahá'u'lláh which, it should be pointed out, are fully corroborated by the Qur'an, which book is more authentic than the Bible including both the New and the Old Testaments. The Bible is not wholly authentic, and in this respect is not to be compared with the Qur'an, and should be wholly subordinated to the authentic writings of Bahá'u'lláh."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States and Canada, July 28, 1936: Bahá'í News, No. 103, p. 1, October 1936)

http://bahai-library.com/hornby_lights_guidance_2.html&chapter=4#n1688

 

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1 minute ago, Badi19 said:

Thanks. I learn something new everyday. But the original question was from the point of view of the Quran.

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9 hours ago, megaman said:

Hi @Badi19, if you look at my post, you'll notice that I said true, not authentic. 

Hi @megaman, I'm curious to understand what you mean by differentiating between "true" and "authentic". Would you be willing to explain?

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On 6/20/2018 at 4:53 PM, Mohammed-Mehdi said:

But there is solid proof that people who purposely wanted to change the Message for their '' benefit '' did do so.

That is what everyone is waiting for.     Okay...sources.      Solid proof means you know the people and what they did.

We all want to know who and what was changed.

Please don't keep us in suspense any longer.

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11 hours ago, json said:

Hi @megaman, I'm curious to understand what you mean by differentiating between "true" and "authentic". Would you be willing to explain?

Hi @json, of course :)

I mean that the message of the Bible is true but it might not be preserved fully. For example, I hold this famous verse to be true:

Quote

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. -John 14:6

 

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3 hours ago, megaman said:

Hi @json, of course :)

I mean that the message of the Bible is true but it might not be preserved fully. For example, I hold this famous verse to be true:

 

There are two ways for Baha'is to understand that verse of Bible. How do you take it?

1) Baha'u'llah is the sender of the prophets so he sent Jesus.

2) Baha'u'llah is himself Bab, Mohammed, Imam Husayn, Moses, Jesus, Krishna, Buddha etc.

What is your belief?

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1 hour ago, Badi19 said:

There are two ways for Baha'is to understand that verse of Bible. How do you take it?

1) Baha'u'llah is the sender of the prophets so he sent Jesus.

2) Baha'u'llah is himself Bab, Mohammed, Imam Husayn, Moses, Jesus, Krishna, Buddha etc.

What is your belief?

Hi @Badi19, again, I don't think this thread is about me, but I'll answer. 

I can't speak on behalf of Baha'is but I can share what I personally believe. 

Quote

Inasmuch as these Birds of the Celestial Throne are all sent down from the heaven of the Will of God, and as they all arise to proclaim His irresistible Faith, they therefore are regarded as one soul and the same person. For they all drink from the one Cup of the love of God, and all partake of the fruit of the same Tree of Oneness. These Manifestations of God have each a twofold station. One is the station of pure abstraction and essential unity. In this respect, if thou callest them all by one name, and dost ascribe to them the same attribute, thou hast not erred from the truth.... 

If thou wilt observe with discriminating eyes, thou wilt behold Them all abiding in the same tabernacle, soaring in the same heaven, seated upon the same throne, uttering the same speech, and proclaiming the same Faith. Such is the unity of those Essences of Being, those Luminaries of infinite and immeasurable splendor! Wherefore, should one of these Manifestations of Holiness proclaim saying: "I am the return of all the Prophets," He, verily, speaketh the truth. In like manner, in every subsequent Revelation, the return of the former Revelation is a fact, the truth of which is firmly established

-Baha'u'llah, Book of Certitude

and like wise we read in the Quran:

Quote

قُلْ آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَاقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالْأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَىٰ وَعِيسَىٰ وَالنَّبِيُّونَ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ - 3:84

Say, "We have believed in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him."

So when I read:

Quote

For the Son of Man will come in His Father's glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done. Matthew 16:27

It makes sense to me. Specially with Baha'u'llah meaning Glory of God.

In conclusion, I agree with your second point but we need to take into consideration some things about the connection with Imam Husayn because he wasn't a messenger like the other ones mentioned. The mystical connection between Imam Husayn and Baha'u'llah is that they both suffered unjust persecutions and both of their followers were martyred.

Now that we've looked at their unity, let's look at the distinctions:

Quote

The other station is the station of distinction, and pertaineth to the world of creation, and to the limitations thereof. In this respect, each Manifestation of God hath a distinct individuality, a definitely prescribed mission, a predestined revelation, and specially designated limitations. Each one of them is known by a different name, is characterized by a special attribute, fulfils a definite mission, and is entrusted with a particular Revelation. ... It is because of this difference in their station and mission that the words and utterances flowing from these Well Springs of Divine knowledge appear to diverge and differ. Otherwise, in the eyes of them that are initiated into the mysteries of Divine wisdom, all their utterances are, in reality, but the expressions of one Truth. As most of the people have failed to appreciate those stations to which We have referred, they, therefore, feel perplexed and dismayed at the varying utterances pronounced by Manifestations that are essentially one and the same. 

-Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah

and also in the Holy Quran:

Quote

تِلْكَ الرُّسُلُ فَضَّلْنَا بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَىٰ بَعْضٍ ۘ مِّنْهُم مَّن كَلَّمَ اللَّهُ ۖ وَرَفَعَ بَعْضَهُمْ دَرَجَاتٍ ۚ وَآتَيْنَا عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ الْبَيِّنَاتِ وَأَيَّدْنَاهُ بِرُوحِ الْقُدُسِ ۗ وَلَوْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ مَا اقْتَتَلَ الَّذِينَ مِن بَعْدِهِم مِّن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَتْهُمُ الْبَيِّنَاتُ وَلَٰكِنِ اخْتَلَفُوا فَمِنْهُم مَّنْ آمَنَ وَمِنْهُم مَّن كَفَرَ ۚ وَلَوْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ مَا اقْتَتَلُوا وَلَٰكِنَّ اللَّهَ يَفْعَلُ مَا يُرِيدُ - 2:253

Those messengers - some of them We caused to exceed others. Among them were those to whom Allah spoke, and He raised some of them in degree. And We gave Jesus, the Son of Mary, clear proofs, and We supported him with the Pure Spirit. If Allah had willed, those [generations] succeeding them would not have fought each other after the clear proofs had come to them. But they differed, and some of them believed and some of them disbelieved. And if Allah had willed, they would not have fought each other, but Allah does what He intends.

Regarding "Sender of Messengers", I have read that as well and do believe in it.

Let's look at 2 other quotes with respect to this:

Quote

There is no power nor strength except in God, the Most Exalted, the Most Mighty. - In a prayer revealed by The Bab

also:

Quote

When I contemplate, O my God, the relationship that bindeth me to Thee, I am moved to proclaim to all created things ‘verily I am God!’; and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! -Baha'u'llah, quoted by Shoghi Effendi in The World Order of Baha’u’llah, p. 113.

I hope I have made my belief clear. 

EDIT:

And I also hope that these quotes and the one below make it clear to why I can never turn away from Baha'u'llah. 

Quote

Be thou assured in thyself that verily, he who turns away from this Beauty hath also turned away from the Messengers of the past and showeth pride towards God from all eternity to all eternity. -Baha'u'llah, Tablet of Ahmad

 

Edited by megaman
Added a bit from Tablet of Ahmad
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3 minutes ago, megaman said:

I hope I have made my belief clear. 

Salam Imam Mahdi (aj) resembles all prophets & he is right successor & avenger of blood of Imam Hussain (as) by family tree inheritance & divinely appointee ,I don' know how much you want replace him with this guy :dwarf::angry::NH:

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3 minutes ago, megaman said:

Hi @Badi19, again, I don't think this thread is about me, but I'll answer. 

I can't speak on behalf of Baha'is but I can share what I personally believe. 

and like wise we read in the Quran:

So when I read:

It makes sense to me. Specially with Baha'u'llah meaning Glory of God.

In conclusion, I agree with your second point but we need to take into consideration some things about the connection with Imam Husayn because he wasn't a messenger like the other ones mentioned. The mystical connection between Imam Husayn and Baha'u'llah is that they both suffered unjust persecutions and both of their followers were martyred.

Now that we've looked at their unity, let's look at the distinctions:

and also in the Holy Quran:

Regarding "Sender of Messengers", I have read that as well and do believe in it.

Let's look at 2 other quotes with respect to this:

also:

I hope I have made my belief clear. 

As far as I know Baha'u'llah for Baha'is is "all in one". The Transcendent God, The Primal Will of God, The Manifestation of God, The Avatar (God in Human Temple), The sender of Prophets, The Fire that spoke to Moses, The 'Father' of Jesus (or Jesus!), Lord of Lords, God of Gods, Imam Husayn, Avatar of Krishna, Buddha, the return of Bab!!!!!! This makes no sense to me. Sorry.

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2 minutes ago, Badi19 said:

As far as I know Baha'u'llah for Baha'is is "all in one". The Transcendent God, The Primal Will of God, The Manifestation of God, The Avatar (God in Human Temple), The sender of Prophets, The Fire that spoke to Moses, The 'Father' of Jesus (or Jesus!), Lord of Lords, God of Gods, Imam Husayn, Avatar of Krishna, Buddha, the return of Bab!!!!!! This makes no sense to me. Sorry.

Hi @Badi19, no worries, we each have a different perspective.

A few notes.

Fire that spoke to Moses : I think that's the Bab

Baha'u'llah is not Father of Jesus, God of Gods or Transcendent God. He is the Glory of God.

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3 minutes ago, megaman said:

Hi @Badi19, no worries, we each have a different perspective.

A few notes.

Fire that spoke to Moses : I think that's the Bab

Baha'u'llah is not Father of Jesus, God of Gods or Transcendent God. He is the Glory of God.

Even Azalis have their perspective, even Guardianist Baha'is have their perspectives. All these Splinter Groups have their perspectives. We need not worry! Why publish books against "Charles Mason Remey and those who followed him?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYnjWvjHf1o

Nope. That Fire is Baha. Get it checked from some Baha'i Scholar. Baha is everything!

Quote

Verily, Christ is Our Word which We communicated unto Mary...

Selections from the writings of Bab

Baha'u'llah is God of Gods! He even claimed this:

Quote

All Gods became Gods from the flow of my affairs and all Lords became Lords by the overflowing of my decree (kul al-ulūh min rashḥi ‘amrī ta’llahat wa kul al-rubūb min ṭafḥ ḥukmī tarabbat).

`Abdu’l-Bahā, Makātīb (Egypt: Maṭba`atu Kurdistān al-`Ilmiyya (Published by Faraj-Allāh Dhakī), 1330 AH), vol. 2, p. 255.

Some more of his titles are here:

http://bahaitexts.blogspot.com/2017/12/titles-of-bahaullah.html

He is also the "Transcendent God"

Quote

O Jamál! The Unseen, the Inaccessible, the Transcendent One (God; ghayb-i maní` lá yudrak) lamenteth and weepeth for He inhaleth not the fragrance of that which, in this Day, is beloved (of God).

- Baha'u'llah's tablet to Jamal-i-Burujirdi

https://bahai-library.com/bahaullah_lawh_jamal_burujirdi

 

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On 6/23/2018 at 2:35 AM, Son of Placid said:

That is what everyone is waiting for.     Okay...sources.      Solid proof means you know the people and what they did.

We all want to know who and what was changed.

Please don't keep us in suspense any longer.

If the Christian world which is deeply divided about almost anything claims in general that the Divine Message can not be found anymore.. changes have been made: by people with money and power etc. not just some translations, that is some serious solid proof to me.

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8 hours ago, Mohammed-Mehdi said:

If the Christian world which is deeply divided about almost anything claims in general that the Divine Message can not be found anymore.. changes have been made: by people with money and power etc. not just some translations, that is some serious solid proof to me.

But the Christian world in general believes that the Gospels reflect the teachings of Jesus very well. Christians are divided about many issues, but do are Muslims. This is no proof that our books are corrupted, only strong evidence that they all are written by Humans, something that especially Muslims have difficulties in admitting. 

This thread is now already 13 pages long, noone has found a sura in the Quran that states the Bible is corrupted. But we know for certain that many Muslims believe it is.

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38 minutes ago, andres said:

But we know for certain that many Muslims believe it is.

Don’t say many Muslims , ALL Muslims can do a very simple comparison betweeen the books, and spot the differences.

 definitely there is something wrong about your books, both at the same time can’t be correct.

the words in 2 other books had been written by people that never met their prophets.contents within their books is not verified.

this is not the case with Quran,

Edited by Arminmo
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8 hours ago, Arminmo said:

Don’t say many Muslims , ALL Muslims can do a very simple comparison betweeen the books, and spot the differences.

 definitely there is something wrong about your books, both at the same time can’t be correct.

the words in 2 other books had been written by people that never met their prophets.contents within their books is not verified.

this is not the case with Quran,

The persons that wrote the Quran never met Jesus either. The stories in the Gospels are very close in time to what happened. The Quran 600 years late. 

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