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ali_fatheroforphans

Sister is going to the wrong path???

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I have a sister, 25 years of age who is going to the wrong path i feel. It is becoming slowly and slowly obvious considering i live with her. 

Firstly let me make it clear that she does believe that there is a creator, but sometimes says very un-islamic stuff.

I can list a lot of her traits/habits which concern me:

1- she hasn't prayed salah for the past 10 years( and now she openly doesn't care about it at all)

2- she feels God is very cruel and always she always says stuff like why do natural disasters etc happen?

3- she openly sometimes laughed at the fact that maybe quran was written by prophet muhammad(saws) (ie it was not a relevation)

4- she says religion is the cause of violence and that has been the case for ages

5- she says inter-faith marriage should never be a problem and it is racist if for example a muslim who only wants to marry a muslim( i couldn't stand this)

6- She refuses to read the quran and just cherry-picks/skims verses once in a while

7- She goes clubbing( rarely) but has absolutely nothing against it( claiming that it is not harram to go)

8- Says that relationships are perfectly fine( ie dating)

9-  Also she always criticizes muharram gatherings saying that the maulana reading majlis are just emotionally manipulating people. She also is against nohay, mattam etc

10- Finds heaven and hell a strange idea and thinks that we can never be sure this is a reality

11- Says that religion should have nothing to do with politics. She supports secular countries and says that this is the reason they progress.

12- thinks harram food is a very stupid concept( although she doesn't have the courage to eat harram food)

13- Is agianst the fact that prophet muhammad(saws) had 12 wives and she keeps laughing and bringing this up

14- Says that hijab has nothing to do with islam

I can list more but I will end it here. What does such a person sound to you, from the 14 points i have listed?? 

Her upbringing is perfectly fine, as me and my other siblings don't have these strange views. I am not sure how she developed as this kind of person. The annoying thing is how she laughs anything off which has to do with religion. The only thing left is the fact that she doesn't drink alcohol.

Would you be concerned if you were her parents?

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4- People are the cause of violence. Their incorrect interpretation makes them violent. That's why the layman shouldn't interpret anything without a teacher.

5- Wanting someone of the same faith makes life easier. Racism connotes to race, not religion.

9- How's he emotionally manipulating anyone? Is he asking for money? Asking us to do something? He just reads matam. Some people don't react to it. Not all people cry. If the story of Hussain عليه السلام doesn't make her cry then she doesn't understand it.

10- We don't really know what heaven and hell really are.

12- Anyone with any butchering experience knows that the way you put down an animal reflects its taste. Halal method of butchering insures that the animal doesn't suffer. Animals have feelings, you know.

14- Hijab is to cover the chest area. I think she means the headdress (Qulnus). It actually does have to do with Islam. Imam Ali عليه السلام spoke about those who wear it revealingly.

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1. Salah is for nearness to God and for her own benefit, it she does not care for Salah, she should not complain against Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì when she does not seek his help, even though Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì helps her because Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì is magnificent.

2. Natural disasters occurs due to various reasons in nature but Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì is not responsible for people if they live near areas which are prone to natural disasters,  Causalities occur due to our own faults such as: Our failed planning to live in those regions where tectonic plates meet and earthquake occurs and breaking of mountains by dynamites which are inserted in the lands to make it unshakable but men destroyed it for roads and blames God for his faults, Near rivers where from flooding occurs, Underneath mountains where land sliding occurs. So, why do you blame God for your own ignorance,

3.  Quran was revealed to Prophet PBUHHP and he did not wrote himself as you believe his wisdom in other things, you must believe his truth about Quran, Prophet PBUHHP never lied about anything and never took credit of anything which was revealed to him by Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. If it was written by Prophet PBUHHP, then how did he knew about the happenings which were never mentioned in other books such as stories of past prophets left incomplete in Bible and Torah. About Quran, there is written in books before him such as Bible and Torah that when Prophet PBUHHP will come, he will speak what is revealed to him. Secondly, there are many reasons which affirm the authenticity of Quran as revealed such as successful prophecies that Iranians will be lost by Romans which was prophesied  before this event. and the joining of two seas which was located in South Africa, where no one among Arabs have sailed before. And there are many other things which bespeaks that Quran was a revealed by Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì to Prophet (PBUHHP) which includes a vast treasure of wisdom which you learn in sociology, psychology and biology today.

4. Men is the cause of violence, religion is the one who made men civilized. Every time when the religion came through prophets, religion never fought them but hold conversations with them but men fought against the religion. Look at Adam, Ibrahim, Noah, Moses, Jesus, Prophet PBUHHP, you will find that people confronted them. When they came, the unbelievers confronted them and when they left hypocrites did politics on their names and divided religion and made people fight each other. No any Prophet initiated a war except that he fought in defense.

5. Why is it racist, can a human marry an ant ? if not then why cannot, I think ant shall file a suit against those who are against ant marrying human. lolz. There needs to be similarities among the couples, Will anyone marry a terrorist ? No they will not because there is difference in thinking, We Muslims, belonging to Shia faith believe that there is not pure religion except the religion of Prophet PBUHHP and Ahle bait and therefore we cannot afford to let ourselves and our future generations in problems by marrying a Hindu or a Christian who cannot even defend their own belief and are in doubt regarding them. A healthy person will never ask for disease.

6. If she refuses to read Quran, she will get permanent in her wrongs and it will affect none other but her own self.

7.  Clubbing is a wrong thing, Every indecency arises out of indecent company. If she does not oppose it, she will get caught by bad habits.

8. Relationships out of wedlock are perfectly insensible, Because if you can marry, there is no need for having dating as it will bring harm as you are not a tool that one enjoys your and when time is over you are abandoned and another person takes your place.

9. Muharram revives deen and it is necessary that we remember our heroes who gave life for Islam so that we may understand the importance of religion. If she things that those tragedies were unimportant and 9/11 should be commemorated then I believe she is not a just person because she looks down upon the people who sacrificed their lives for our benefit.

10. Well, no one was sure except believers when Imam Ali a.s said that in the time near Qayamah, there will be musical instrument played in Harm e Kabah and that are mobile ringtones. No one even saw the two divided seas in South Africa when it was revealed in Quran but believers believed. We sleep one day and wake up in the next day, how does your sister remark about that did not sleep remind her of death and waking up reminded up of waking up on a day someday when people will be asked about what they did with their lives ?

11. The foundation of social and political system was laid by the religion. It was the divine religion who told differences between right and wrong, ethics and morality, leadership qualities and rights of nation as a whole, rights of minorities and status of women. Every time, when people were looked down upon, the religion came to their rescue. At the time of Egyptian Pharaoh, Moses came with the idea of abolition of slavery of Israelities and unjust attitude towards women. In the era of Roman empire, Jesus son of Mary came for the rescue of poor people and revived their status. In the time of ignorance of Arabs, Prophet PBUHHP came and raised the status of slaves and waged jihad against unjust culture that buried daughters alive.  Religion laid the foundation of social rights and encouraged national empowerment. Secularism is a failure because it exploits the people in the name of freedom and extremism exploits in the name of religion. The best path is of True Islam and that is Islam of Prophet PBUHHP and 12 Imams.

12. She had not seen that what harms are their in pork and alcohol and eating snakes and phobo fish. Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì forbade them because these haram things contains such germs and elements which are injurious to human health. Ask her will she take poison ?

13. Prophet PBUHHP had 11 wives or 12, but he married for various reasons. Such as sometimes, he married a widowed or divorced and sometimes for the will of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. He PBUHHP never married a women without the consent of the lady. Secondly, it is not a big deal, Prophet were married before as well many a times, I read some where that Hazrat Suleman was married to 70 times or so.

14. HIjab has been made compulsory for public morality and ethics and to prevent indecency and ill-character within society. The words of your sister are rejected by Islam. 

 

Edited by magma
Removed long quote

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1 hour ago, Marbles said:

From your post it seems she is on the verge of atheism or agnosticism. You really can't do anything about it unless she wants to make a sincere effort to seek answers and clarifications about the things that bother her. You might try your best, you might bring forth the best answers, but she won't register it if she is set in her views. 

This is not a rare phenomenon. I know dozens of Muslims IRL who have intellectually drifted away from the basic philosophy of religion and Islam after a long and painful process of deliberation, including a few on SC.

May Allah guide us all. Amen.

Yeah I agree with you considering that she is not willing to accept a view which is different from her. I think she has agnostic views because she does believe that this world was not created by itself. I just hope Allah guides her one day.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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34 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Yeah I agree with you considering that she is not willing to accept a view which is different from her. I think she has agnostic views because she does believe that this world was not created by itself. I just hope Allah guides her one day.

Ameen. 

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If she hasn't prayed Salah in 10 years then she hasn't prayed since she was 15 years of age. That is the parents job to raise their children with the proper awareness. But its understandable if the circumstances do not warrant that. 

I think its pointless to talk about now and its only up to AllahÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì to guide those who are older than 18. If she was 15, I would have said maybe have your parents start becoming a bit more strict and taking her and the others to thursday programs like Dua Kumayl or send them to an Islamic School so they're raised in the proper environment and stay away from Haram and sinning. Also what is your household like? Have your parents ever controlled what she could and could not watch? There has to be something within your sisters environment which caused her to become the way you say she has. 

Edited by magma
Removed long quote

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It looks like she's leaning towards atheism and has been influenced by it, due to the growing power of atheism via media, popular culture, and i am guessing a number of the friends she probably associates with.

You've got to arm yourself with knowledge. Take the problem of Evil for example, how do you philosophically deal with the problem of Evil? When you talk to her, and she says how can i believe in a God that allows suffering to take place, you need a clear and persuasive rebuttal that will challenge her premises and get her to think.

If you show you have good knowledge of atheistic thinkers, and show that you clearly understand her positions, you can deconstruct them slowly and get to the heart of things.

"You think you know a story, but you only know how it ends, to get to the heart of a story, you have to go back to the beginning".

She aquired these beliefs through media, friends, popular culture and now you have to get to the heart of her reasoning and go all the way back.

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I think instead of giving the counter argument to her questions try to tell him the solutions. Brother Justali_fatheroforphans  give her some literature about the karbala and the role of Lady Zainab . You can gift her this type of book. 

Some time pepole are away from region but we can not call them kafor or force them to be religious.  Instead ask for God help and use your IQ to bring her back to right path slowly with love. 

May God provide guidance for us and her too. 

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14 hours ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

4- People are the cause of violence. Their incorrect interpretation makes them violent. That's why the layman shouldn't interpret anything without a teacher.

5- Wanting someone of the same faith makes life easier. Racism connotes to race, not religion.

9- How's he emotionally manipulating anyone? Is he asking for money? Asking us to do something? He just reads matam. Some people don't react to it. Not all people cry. If the story of Hussain عليه السلام doesn't make her cry then she doesn't understand it.

10- We don't really know what heaven and hell really are.

12- Anyone with any butchering experience knows that the way you put down an animal reflects its taste. Halal method of butchering insures that the animal doesn't suffer. Animals have feelings, you know.

14- Hijab is to cover the chest area. I think she means the headdress (Qulnus). It actually does have to do with Islam. Imam Ali عليه السلام spoke about those who wear it revealingly.

Asalamualaikum, could you give the quote where he says about people who wear it revealingly, id love to see it . the quote or saying.if you dont mind :D

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take her to an islamic scholar who can answer her questions. In fact i can tell you about a group where there are scholars who do answer such questions.It is called ask those who know. it is an app.And you ask ask the speakers questions.Please pm me if you need help for this app.

Edited by magma
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I will try to answer a few of these, 

For the first one, about natural disasters, I will quote Imam Saqid(a.s) in the tradition of Mufaddhal (translation). The full tradition can be found at 

https://www.al-islam.org/tradition-of-mufaddal-pearls-of-wisdom-from-imam-jafar-as-sadiq/preface

Some ignorant people have construed these events which occur from time to time, for example epidemics, jaundice, the absence of chlorophyll of the trees, hail storms, locusts, as an argument for the denial of Purposeful creation of the Creator.

The answer to this is that if there is no Designer of the universe, why are they not more severe catastrophes, as for example the complete disorder in the universe, the rending of the earth, the cessation of sunrise, the drying up of river beds so as to leave no drop of water to moisten the lips, the air becoming stationary leading to the disorganisation of all matter, the advance of oceanic water to the earth submerging it. Who guards all these events? Whose planning is behind the scenes?s of locusts would not have visited us to cause such heavy damage, such virulent epidemics would not have taken toll c>I' millions of lives, hail storms would not have been so severe as to destroy our corn fields. If all these are real facts, why does not this universe get disorganised leading to the destruction of the whole world? Why does not the ocean submerge the earth with gushing water? Why does not the air become stationary to stifle all living beings? Why does not all this occur?

This shows that the Designer is there, Who prevents such occurrence in order that the universe may not be disorganised, nor the species become extinct, nor total annihilation takes place. What takes place is by way of the natural consequences of man's action, a warning and a preventive taking place now and then in the form of epidemics, locusts, ravages of crops and gardens, hail storms etc. 'this is a negation of the argument against purposeful creation. I ask of them why these epidemics and locust swarms do not continue for ever so as to destroy the universe? They visit occasionally, and after a stay, they leave.

Do you not see that this world is protected against these horrible calamities and catastrophes? If any of these events occurred in this world, it would be completely annihilated. These calamities befall occasionally, in diluted severity, just to warn men and to ameliorate their conduct. They do not perpetuate but get removed as and when men get dismayed in regard to their safety. These calamities befall as warning; and they get removed through Divine Grace....

If you contemplate on the words of Imam Sadiq(a.s), you will find very much wisdom in it. He makes two very good points regarding natural disasters 

1) If there were no designer and protector of the universe, what is to stop much greater disasters from occurring, such that all life ceases to exist. If you study the sciences, such as biology, chemistry, astronomy, you will see that life continues to exist only due to a very delicate and fine balance between the natural forces and the internal processes of life. Were this balance to ever be disturbed in any significant and prolonged way, no life would exist at all. What is holding this fine and delicate balance together and protecting it from being disturbed ? 

2) Natural disasters have a purpose, and they exist for a short time, and then life resumes as normal. Natural disasters are there to humble us and to make us seek our creator. They are there to show us that we are not in control of things, and there is a greater power that controls things. 

 

For the next question, if the Quran was written by Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h) whom everyone admits was a man, and not God(s.w.a), then how is it that there are so many scientific facts mentioned in the Quran that were unknown to anyone at that time, including Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h). Let's suppose, for arguments sake, that he just 'got lucky' by making a few scientific statements and that he happened to be right. But then he would also get some wrong. But of all the scientific facts mentioned in the Quran, not one single word of any of them disagrees with modern science. Many, many years before Galileo and Copernicus, the Quran spoke about how the earth was round, not flat, and that the planets all had their own orbits (they didn't revolve around the earth as everyone of that day thought). The Quran describes the Water Cycle, which was unknown at the time. The Quran describes how the oceans do not mix, but there is a 'barrier' between them (because each body of water has a different salinity, one will either sink below or rise above the other). The Quran described the Big Bang and the fact that the Universe itself is expanding(fact that were only known in this century). 

The Quran talks about how the baby develops in stages, and describes each stage, that happens inside the uterus and the womb of the mother. There were no ultrasound machines at that time, lol. 

Besides this, many other facts which I could write many pages about. 

The second thing is that the Quran itself gives an open challenge to all people of all times. It says that if you believe that this Quran is from a source other than Almighty God(s.w.a), then produce one chapter, even a small chapter, that is similar to the Quran. In 1400 years, noone has been able to do it, and many have tried. 

I think that is enough for now. Maybe I will answer some more tommorow. 

 

 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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9 hours ago, 2113 said:

If she hasn't prayed Salah in 10 years then she hasn't prayed since she was 15 years of age. That is the parents job to raise their children with the proper awareness. But its understandable if the circumstances do not warrant that. 

I think its pointless to talk about now and its only up to AllahÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì to guide those who are older than 18. If she was 15, I would have said maybe have your parents start becoming a bit more strict and taking her and the others to thursday programs like Dua Kumayl or send them to an Islamic School so they're raised in the proper environment and stay away from Haram and sinning. Also what is your household like? Have your parents ever controlled what she could and could not watch? There has to be something within your sisters environment which caused her to become the way you say she has. 

Well to be fair at the age of 15/16, she did ocasionally read salah, but now it is a different scenario as she has not even touched the prayer mat and has a different attitude.

But when I was 15, I even never prayed salah. It is just like a year go(when i was 19 years of age) that I started praying regularly.

In terms of environment, our parents were pretty religious and it should not of been the main problem. 

In terms of friends, she has no muslim friends and has this athiest one. I think it may be something outside of our family, or maybe online media etc

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6 hours ago, sidnaq said:

Asalamualaikum, could you give the quote where he says about people who wear it revealingly, id love to see it . the quote or saying.if you dont mind :D

٥٩٠٢ ] ٤ ـ وبهذا الإسناد عن أبي عبد الله عليه‌السلام قال : قال أمير المؤمنين عليه‌السلام : إذا ظهرت القلانس المتركة ظهر الزنا

Sister Hameedeh translated it on another thread:

Quote

And from this chain, from Abu Abdullah (a.s), he said: Ameer Al'Mumineen (a.s) said: If the qulnus is left uncovered adultery (zina) becomes overt. 

 

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Dear brother,

First of all, forgive my bad English and my intromission. I am very new here, posted and read something many and many years ago but just now I am returning here. I feel a great need to answer this topic because maybe I can help anyway, since, despite I came from a diferent background, from a catholic family and a christian environment before become a muslim,  I see a lot of myself when I was at twenties at your sister.

I left the church of my fathers just at begining of adolescence. I saw, like your sister, the religions like a dumb thing which spread darkness and hate between people, with a lot of hypocrisy of mani religious leaders. I never could become an atheist, but I try to achieve this very hard, Allah swt may protect me, but I become somewhere between a agnosthic and a pantheist. All my tries to discover some religion just make me go far from them and I try a lot of them.

I read a lot about both, religion and mithology and antropology at college, to get some conclusions like almost all of them were monotheistic at some point and become politheistic because political and ethnic needs to "rearrange pantheons" with gods from many peoples and classes. I also see the hard etnocentric view of all that creeds, there are even some mith justifiing the people who tell the history is better than any other, from a folktale of rain florest Native to better elaborated system of creed. This make me more and more sceptcal, since this hard focus to justify the superiority of own people proves to me religions was things inescrupulous people manipulate to conduct people to his own goals.

There are not good islamic books at libraries in my country at those times and internet and its huge offfer of information was just at begining (early 90ies), but since I have a insaciable hungry for knowledge and despite my  anti-religious view I have a nice focus about know most I could in all religions I found a very old edtion of Ibn Khaldun Muqadimma. Read it open a window to me because all that world of knowledge, method, erudition was far from usual vision about Islam at my country at those days. So I look for more books and read them all many timesand even found a bad translation of meaning of Holly Quran (one made by a bad poet instead of a scholar).

How I go deeply inside Islam I see Islam do not have that etnocentric bias, this sound to me as a signal of his transcendental origin, since the mankind was so xenophobe that at all they put his prejudices. Any book which do not have this kind of prejudice, to me, at that times, could mean just one thing: that book come from a higher source.

Reflecting about this, and trying to arguing with myself ( or even against myself coz do not make sense to me - an ocidental proud of secular and intelectual and academic and leftist view - become one of those muslims portrayed as fanatical and brainwashed people.  Even after unveil a lot of misconception against Muslims and Islam itself I could not to see myself as a Muslim.

But so Allah swt give me the insight religion/deen is not about people, is all about Allah, even when we are fine, gentle, charitable about people, the focus is obbeying the comandments of the Most High, first of all for my own benefit and to make life in Dunya possible and free of aflictions and anxiety.

Sometimes it is hard to perceive the higher meaning and sense of a religion when we born on it. They just appear to us as a famili or society tradition, make from mechanical and senseless rites. Even the environment corroborate this impression since advices and sermons and scholar speechs just points to obvious things, as previous data which do not need to be write in heart. When you discover deen outside of your environment and tradition most things appear brighter and full of sense and new experiences. Even now 22 years later I still feel the expression "Everyplace is Karballah" a soundfull expression coz I must be all time moving in a world where I live half of my life but is not the mine anymore, so I need to watch each step.

Maybe your sister could benefit more the admonitions and haram curses to rediscover Islam in her heart, trough dhikr and coran readings and silence to hear Allah swt talk to her so she could separate the beatiful religion of Islam from Muslim human behaviour.

I hope this fewer lines wrote in very bad English could help a bit in any way.

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