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Quran says at many places that 'Azar' was the father of Abraham a.s and he was a 'mushrik'.

Surah An'aam 74

وَإِذْ قَالَ إِبْرَاهِيمُ لِأَبِيهِ آزَرَ أَتَتَّخِذُ أَصْنَامًا آلِهَةً ۖ إِنِّي أَرَاكَ وَقَوْمَكَ فِي ضَلَالٍ مُبِينٍ
Lo! Abraham said to his father Azar: "Takest thou idols for gods? For I see thee and thy people in manifest error."

Surah Maryam 42-45

إِذْ قَالَ لِأَبِيهِ يَا أَبَتِ لِمَ تَعْبُدُ مَا لَا يَسْمَعُ وَلَا يُبْصِرُ وَلَا يُغْنِي عَنْكَ شَيْئًا
Behold, he said to his father: "O my father! why worship that which heareth not and seeth not, and can profit thee nothing? View more

يَا أَبَتِ إِنِّي قَدْ جَاءَنِي مِنَ الْعِلْمِ مَا لَمْ يَأْتِكَ فَاتَّبِعْنِي أَهْدِكَ صِرَاطًا سَوِيًّا
"O my father! to me hath come knowledge which hath not reached thee: so follow me: I will guide thee to a way that is even and straight.

يَا أَبَتِ لَا تَعْبُدِ الشَّيْطَانَ ۖ إِنَّ الشَّيْطَانَ كَانَ لِلرَّحْمَٰنِ عَصِيًّا
"O my father! serve not Satan: for Satan is a rebel against (Allah) Most Gracious. View more verses

يَا أَبَتِ إِنِّي أَخَافُ أَنْ يَمَسَّكَ عَذَابٌ مِنَ الرَّحْمَٰنِ فَتَكُونَ لِلشَّيْطَانِ وَلِيًّا
"O my father! I fear lest a Penalty afflict thee from (Allah) Most Gracious, so that thou become to Satan a friend."

 

Bible says that 'Terah or Tarakh' was the father of Abraham a.s and he was a 'mushrik'.

http://biblehub.com/joshua/24-1.htm

Yusha gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem, and called for the elders of Israel, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers; and they presented themselves before God. Yusha said to all the people, Thus says Allah, the God of Israel, Your fathers lived of old time beyond the River, even Terah, the father of Ibrahim, and the father of Nahor: and they worshiped other gods.

 

Then why al-islam.org is accepting the testimony of Bible instead of Quran and is saying this is the belief of shias that 'Azar' was not the father of Abraham a.s. While both books says father of Abraham a.s was a mushrik, name does not matter.

https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia-ahlul-bayt-dilp-team/was-azar-father-prophet-abraham

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Was Azar the Father of Prophet Abraham?

بِسْمِ اللَّـهِ الرَّحْمَـٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ

And when Ibrahim said to his sire, Azar: Do you take idle for gods ? Surely I see you and your people in manifest error. (Qur’an: Surah Al Anaam, Verse 74)

And Ibrahim asking forgiveness for his sire was only owing to a promise that he made to him; but when it became clear to him that he was an enemy of Allah, he declared himself to be clear of him; most surely Ibrahim was very tenderhearted and forbearing. (Qur’an: Surah Al Tauba, Verse 114)

In the above verses, the word ‘ Ab ‘ has been used for Azar. However, ‘Ab’ has different meanings and does not necessarily mean ‘Walid’ (biological father).

The Holy Prophet (S) has said that the essence of his existence had been transmitted and ultimately conveyed to his immediate parents through a pure, a holy and sanctified progeny.

Now the word ‘ Ab ‘ in Arabic language may mean father as well as ancestor or even uncle as Ishmael (Ismail) the uncle of Jacob (Yaqoub) has been addressed as ‘ Ab ‘ in the following Qur’anic verse ...

Nay! were you witnesses when death visited Yaqoub, when he said to his sons: What will you serve after me ? They said: Well will serve your God and the God of your fathers, Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq, one God only, and to Him do we submit. (Qur’an 2:113)

Since Ishmael was not the father of Jacob, and yet Qur’an uses the word ‘Ab’ for him as uncle, then the usage of this word for other than biological father is established...

Besides Prophet Abraham prays for his biological father (Walid) along with the other believers, which clearly indicates that his biological father was not a polytheist. This is evident from the following Qur’anic verse ...

O our Lord! grant me protection and my parents (Walidayn) and the believers on the day when the reckoning shall come to pass. (Qur’an 14:41)

رَبَّنَا اغْفِرْ لِي وَلِوَالِدَيَّ وَلِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ يَوْمَ يَقُومُ الْحِسَابُ 

But what is surprising, that knowing for fact Ibrahim’s (as) father was ‘Tarakh’ and not ‘Azar’ as stipulated by some Sunni historians, which is in total conformity with the opinion of Shi’a. Ibn Katheer in his work on history writes:

Ibrahim (as) was the son of Tarakh. When Tarakh was 75 years of age, Ibrahim (as) was born to him.

Sunni reference: al-Bidaya wan Nahaya, by Ibn Katheer, v 1 p 139

This is also confirmed by Tabari, as he gives the lineage of Ibrahim’s (as) family in his history collection, but then also in his Commentary of the Qur’an he states that ‘Azar’ was NOT the father of Ibrahim (as).

Sunni references:

- History of al-Tabari, v 1 p 119
- Tafsir Tabari, by Ibn Jarir al-Tabari, v 7 p 158

 

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On 2/2/2017 at 8:14 AM, Ron_Burgundy said:

But what is surprising, that knowing for fact Ibrahim’s (as) father was ‘Tarakh’ and not ‘Azar’ as stipulated by some Sunni historians, which is in total conformity with the opinion of Shi’a.

Name is not the issue, be it Azar or Tarakh. But the status. Which according to both Quran and Bible is same i.e father of Ibrahim a.s was a kafir and mushrik.

Read the OP carefully.

Edited by Fahad Sani

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22 hours ago, Ozzy said:

The father of Ibrahim عليه السلام was Terah, who was also a prophet of Allah.

Azar refers to his uncle.

Where it is?

Quran says he was azar, who was kafir and mushrik.

Bible says he was Terah, who was kafir and mushrik.

See OP.

Just for the sake of name al-islam.org has opposed Quran.

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Father of Ibrahim a.s was a kafir and mushrik. This is not only mentioned in Quran and Bible by name, but also mentioned in shia and sunni hadith books.

QURAN

Surah An'aam 74

وَإِذْ قَالَ إِبْرَاهِيمُ لِأَبِيهِ آزَرَ أَتَتَّخِذُ أَصْنَامًا آلِهَةً ۖ إِنِّي أَرَاكَ وَقَوْمَكَ فِي ضَلَالٍ مُبِينٍ
Lo! Abraham said to his father Azar: "Takest thou idols for gods? For I see thee and thy people in manifest error."

BIBLE

http://biblehub.com/joshua/24-1.htm

Yusha gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem, and called for the elders of Israel, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers; and they presented themselves before God. Yusha said to all the people, Thus says Allah, the God of Israel, Your fathers lived of old time beyond the River, even Terah, the father of Ibrahim, and the father of Nahor: and they worshiped other gods.

SHIA HADITH

علي بن إبراهيم، عن أبيه، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن هشام بن سالم، عن أبي أيوب الخزاز، عن أبصير، عن أبي عبدالله (ع): أن آزر أبا إبراهيم (ع) كان منجما لنمرود ولم يكن يصدر إلا عن أمره فنظر ليلة في النجوم فاصبح وهويقول لنمرود: لقد رأيت عجبا، قال: وما هو؟ قال: رأيت مولودا يولد في أرضنا يكون هلاكنا على يديه ولا يلبث إلا قليلا حتى يحمل به، قال: فتعجب من ذلك وقال: هل حملت به النساء؟ قال: لا، قال: فحجب النساء عن الرجال فلم يدع امرأة إلا جعلها في المدينة لا يخلص إليها ووقع آزر بأهله فعلقت بإبراهيم (صلى الله عليه وآله) فظن أنه صاحبه فأرسل إلى نساء من القوابل في ذلك الزمان لا يكون في الرحم شئ إلا علمن به فنظرن فألزم الله عزوجل ما في الرحم [إلى] الظهر فقلن،: ما نرى في بطنها شيئا وكان فيما أوتي من العلم أنه سيحرق بالنار ولم يؤت علم أن الله تعالى سينجيه، قال: فلما وضعت أم إبراهيم أراد آزر أن يذهب به إلى نمرود ليقتله، فقالت له امرأته لا تذهب بابنك إلى نمرود فيقتله

‘Ali ibn Ibrahim al-Qummi from his father from Ibn Abi ‘Umayr from Hisham ibn Salim from Abu Ayyub al-Khazzaz from Abu Baseer from Imam abu ‘Abdullah (as): Azar the Father of Ibrahim (as) was an astrologer working for the king al-Namrud, one night he observed the stars and in the morning he went to al-Namrud telling him: “I have seen something strange” he said: “What is it?” he said: “I saw a newborn child that will be born in our lands, our destruction will be by his hands, his mother will soon become pregnant with him.” so he was shocked by this and asked him: “Are any of the women currently pregnant with him?” he said: “No”, so he isolated all the women from the men however Azar had slept with his wife and she carried Ibrahim (as), he thought that he was the one so he sent after some women from the tribes and they would know if there were any babies in the womb but Allah concealed Ibrahim (as) so that they couldn’t see him, they said: “We see nothing in her womb”, He was given knowledge that he shall be burned in the fire but he had no knowledge that Allah will save him, when Ibrahim was born from his mother Azar wanted to take him to al-Namrud to kill him but his wife said: “Don’t take your son to the Namrud who will kill him”…(until the end of the narration).

          Source: al-Kafi vol 8 pg 366. al-Majlisi said: Hasan in al-Miraat 26/548.

SUNNI HADITH

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "On the Day of Resurrection Abraham will meet his father Azar whose face will be dark and covered with dust.(The Prophet (ﷺ) Abraham will say to him): 'Didn't I tell you not to disobey me?' His father will reply: 'Today I will not disobey you.' 'Abraham will say: 'O Lord! You promised me not to disgrace me on the Day of Resurrection; and what will be more disgraceful to me than cursing and dishonoring my father?' Then Allah will say (to him):' 'I have forbidden Paradise for the disbelievers." Then he will be addressed, 'O Abraham! Look! What is underneath your feet?' He will look and there he will see a Dhabh (an animal,) blood-stained, which will be caught by the legs and thrown in the (Hell) Fire."

Sahih al-Bukhari 3350

 

Now, Quran, Bible, Shia hadith, Sunni Hadith, all are saying very explicitly that father of Ibrahim a.s (Azar, Terah, Tarak) was kafir and mushrik.

But still al-islam.org is opposing this. Its not about name but the characteristics (which are same). Just like Imamah and Nabuwah (which are also same, only name change).

Edited by Fahad Sani

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3 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Name is not the issue, be it Azar or Tarakh. But the status. Which according to both Quran and Bible is same i.e father of Ibrahim a.s was a kafir and mushrik.

Read the OP carefully.

ok so what is the problem then ? It is the character of person that matters most. Lineage doesn't matter but unfortunately sunni understands this much better than shias these days 

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17 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Imamah has a social and political aspect not found in Nubuwwah; So no it's not a mere name change like some want to mislead and portray it as.

Wrong. Nabuwah taught us everything practically (socio-economic-political syetem). And political aspect is really missing in shia concept of divine Imamah. Except Imam Ali a.s and Imam Hassan a.s, no other Imam became political leader or caliph of his time. Moreover, we also now that via shia narrations that Imams were also under taqiyyah both in political and social aspects. Shaikh Toosi's books Tehzeeb and Istibsar both are on this issue i.e taqqiyah based narrations. So in reality, Imamah was no where, whereas in theory its no different than Nabuwah.

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7 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Quran says he was azar, who was kafir and mushrik.

Bible says he was Terah, who was kafir and mushrik.

 

7 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

also mentioned in shia and sunni hadith books

Please quote the text and source where it says Azar was the والد of Ibrahim عليه السلام

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10 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Father of Ibrahim a.s was a kafir and mushrik. This is not only mentioned in Quran and Bible by name, but also mentioned in shia and sunni hadith books.

QURAN

Surah An'aam 74

وَإِذْ قَالَ إِبْرَاهِيمُ لِأَبِيهِ آزَرَ أَتَتَّخِذُ أَصْنَامًا آلِهَةً ۖ إِنِّي أَرَاكَ وَقَوْمَكَ فِي ضَلَالٍ مُبِينٍ
Lo! Abraham said to his father Azar: "Takest thou idols for gods? For I see thee and thy people in manifest error."

BIBLE

http://biblehub.com/joshua/24-1.htm

Yusha gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem, and called for the elders of Israel, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers; and they presented themselves before God. Yusha said to all the people, Thus says Allah, the God of Israel, Your fathers lived of old time beyond the River, even Terah, the father of Ibrahim, and the father of Nahor: and they worshiped other gods.

SHIA HADITH

علي بن إبراهيم، عن أبيه، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن هشام بن سالم، عن أبي أيوب الخزاز، عن أبصير، عن أبي عبدالله (ع): أن آزر أبا إبراهيم (ع) كان منجما لنمرود ولم يكن يصدر إلا عن أمره فنظر ليلة في النجوم فاصبح وهويقول لنمرود: لقد رأيت عجبا، قال: وما هو؟ قال: رأيت مولودا يولد في أرضنا يكون هلاكنا على يديه ولا يلبث إلا قليلا حتى يحمل به، قال: فتعجب من ذلك وقال: هل حملت به النساء؟ قال: لا، قال: فحجب النساء عن الرجال فلم يدع امرأة إلا جعلها في المدينة لا يخلص إليها ووقع آزر بأهله فعلقت بإبراهيم (صلى الله عليه وآله) فظن أنه صاحبه فأرسل إلى نساء من القوابل في ذلك الزمان لا يكون في الرحم شئ إلا علمن به فنظرن فألزم الله عزوجل ما في الرحم [إلى] الظهر فقلن،: ما نرى في بطنها شيئا وكان فيما أوتي من العلم أنه سيحرق بالنار ولم يؤت علم أن الله تعالى سينجيه، قال: فلما وضعت أم إبراهيم أراد آزر أن يذهب به إلى نمرود ليقتله، فقالت له امرأته لا تذهب بابنك إلى نمرود فيقتله

‘Ali ibn Ibrahim al-Qummi from his father from Ibn Abi ‘Umayr from Hisham ibn Salim from Abu Ayyub al-Khazzaz from Abu Baseer from Imam abu ‘Abdullah (as): Azar the Father of Ibrahim (as) was an astrologer working for the king al-Namrud, one night he observed the stars and in the morning he went to al-Namrud telling him: “I have seen something strange” he said: “What is it?” he said: “I saw a newborn child that will be born in our lands, our destruction will be by his hands, his mother will soon become pregnant with him.” so he was shocked by this and asked him: “Are any of the women currently pregnant with him?” he said: “No”, so he isolated all the women from the men however Azar had slept with his wife and she carried Ibrahim (as), he thought that he was the one so he sent after some women from the tribes and they would know if there were any babies in the womb but Allah concealed Ibrahim (as) so that they couldn’t see him, they said: “We see nothing in her womb”, He was given knowledge that he shall be burned in the fire but he had no knowledge that Allah will save him, when Ibrahim was born from his mother Azar wanted to take him to al-Namrud to kill him but his wife said: “Don’t take your son to the Namrud who will kill him”…(until the end of the narration).

          Source: al-Kafi vol 8 pg 366. al-Majlisi said: Hasan in al-Miraat 26/548.

SUNNI HADITH

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "On the Day of Resurrection Abraham will meet his father Azar whose face will be dark and covered with dust.(The Prophet (ﷺ) Abraham will say to him): 'Didn't I tell you not to disobey me?' His father will reply: 'Today I will not disobey you.' 'Abraham will say: 'O Lord! You promised me not to disgrace me on the Day of Resurrection; and what will be more disgraceful to me than cursing and dishonoring my father?' Then Allah will say (to him):' 'I have forbidden Paradise for the disbelievers." Then he will be addressed, 'O Abraham! Look! What is underneath your feet?' He will look and there he will see a Dhabh (an animal,) blood-stained, which will be caught by the legs and thrown in the (Hell) Fire."

Sahih al-Bukhari 3350

 

Now, Quran, Bible, Shia hadith, Sunni Hadith, all are saying very explicitly that father of Ibrahim a.s (Azar, Terah, Tarak) was kafir and mushrik.

But still al-islam.org is opposing this. Its not about name but the characteristics (which are same). Just like Imamah and Nabuwah (which are also same, only name change).

The name of Hazrat Ibrahim’s father was Taruh.

Azar was his uncle and stepfather. In the 74th verse of the chapter al-Anam, the following is stated, "Ibrahim said to his father, Azar, ..." It is recorded in the interpretation of Baydawi that here the word father is used as atf al-bayan (an extra word to explain). When someone has two names, and when they are both used, it is understood that one of them is not famous but the second one is famous.

The second one is mentioned in order to clarify the ambiguity in the first one, which is not famous. The second one is called atf al-bayan.

Hazrat Ibrahim (pbuh) calls two people father. The first one is his own father, and the second one is his stepfather, who is also his uncle. According to the rules of laconic usage, rhetoric and fluency, the meaning of the verse is: Ibrahim said to his father whose name was Azar. If it had not been so, it would have been enough to say, "He said to Azar” or "He said to his father." If Azar had been his real father, the word “his father” would have been extra. We never say, “My father, Ali, is coming but we say, “My father is coming.”

In the Quran, the uncle is called the father. Hazrat Ismael is the uncle of Hazrat Jacob (Yaqub). However, in the Quran, “your father Ismael” is used instead of “your uncle Ismael”. His children say to Hazrat Yaqub, " thy fathers―of Abraham Ismael and Isaac..." (al-Baqara, 2/133) that is, "your father Ibrahim, your father Ismael and your father Isaac...". As a matter of fact, Hazrat Ismael is Hazrat Yaqub’s uncle, not father. It is stated in the interpretations that in the Quran, the uncle is called the father.

It is written in reliable books that Hazrat Prophet (pbuh) called an old peasant, Abu Talib and Hazrat Abbas as father.

It is customary to call the uncle, the stepfather, the father-in-law and charitable people as ‘father’ not only among Arabs but also among other nations.

We call people who help others as “father” or “father of the poor” figuratively. We also call old people “father” to show respect to them.

It is known that old people are called “Mother Aisha”, “Mother Fatima” or “Mother Haji”. When we call them so, it does not mean that they are our fathers or mothers. They are used to show respect.

We also call old men “uncle”, “grandfather”, and old women “aunt”, “grandmother although they are not our relatives.

Accordingly, although the real father of Hazrat Yaqub (pbuh) was Hazrat Isaac, Hazrat Yaqub (pbuh) was addressed “your father Ismael” in the Quran.

In his book, Kitabud-darj-il-munifa, Imam Suyuti proves that Azar is Hazrat Ibrahim’s uncle with evidence and resources.

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On 2/3/2017 at 7:02 AM, Ron_Burgundy said:

The name of Hazrat Ibrahim’s father was Taruh.

Azar was his uncle and stepfather. In the 74th verse of the chapter al-Anam, the following is stated, "Ibrahim said to his father, Azar, ..." It is recorded in the interpretation of Baydawi that here the word father is used as atf al-bayan (an extra word to explain). When someone has two names, and when they are both used, it is understood that one of them is not famous but the second one is famous.

The second one is mentioned in order to clarify the ambiguity in the first one, which is not famous. The second one is called atf al-bayan.

Hazrat Ibrahim (pbuh) calls two people father. The first one is his own father, and the second one is his stepfather, who is also his uncle. According to the rules of laconic usage, rhetoric and fluency, the meaning of the verse is: Ibrahim said to his father whose name was Azar. If it had not been so, it would have been enough to say, "He said to Azar” or "He said to his father." If Azar had been his real father, the word “his father” would have been extra. We never say, “My father, Ali, is coming but we say, “My father is coming.”

In the Quran, the uncle is called the father. Hazrat Ismael is the uncle of Hazrat Jacob (Yaqub). However, in the Quran, “your father Ismael” is used instead of “your uncle Ismael”. His children say to Hazrat Yaqub, " thy fathers―of Abraham Ismael and Isaac..." (al-Baqara, 2/133) that is, "your father Ibrahim, your father Ismael and your father Isaac...". As a matter of fact, Hazrat Ismael is Hazrat Yaqub’s uncle, not father. It is stated in the interpretations that in the Quran, the uncle is called the father.

It is written in reliable books that Hazrat Prophet (pbuh) called an old peasant, Abu Talib and Hazrat Abbas as father.

It is customary to call the uncle, the stepfather, the father-in-law and charitable people as ‘father’ not only among Arabs but also among other nations.

We call people who help others as “father” or “father of the poor” figuratively. We also call old people “father” to show respect to them.

It is known that old people are called “Mother Aisha”, “Mother Fatima” or “Mother Haji”. When we call them so, it does not mean that they are our fathers or mothers. They are used to show respect.

We also call old men “uncle”, “grandfather”, and old women “aunt”, “grandmother although they are not our relatives.

Accordingly, although the real father of Hazrat Yaqub (pbuh) was Hazrat Isaac, Hazrat Yaqub (pbuh) was addressed “your father Ismael” in the Quran.

In his book, Kitabud-darj-il-munifa, Imam Suyuti proves that Azar is Hazrat Ibrahim’s uncle with evidence and resources.

Ok. So Azar was Uncle of Ibrahim a.s and he was kafir and mushrik as per Quran and hadith.

Bible says father of Ibrahim a.s was Terah or Tarakh or Taruh and he was also a kafir and muhsrik. See OP.

Then what we got from not accepting Azar as father of Ibrahim a.s which is very explicitly mentioned in Quran multiple times and also in shia and sunni hadith. All sources say father of Ibrahim a.s was a kafir and mushrik, be it Azar or Terah, name does not matter.

 

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On 2/7/2017 at 11:19 AM, Talut said:

Salam,

Why must the father of Ibrahim a.s. be a kafir and a mushrik?

And why was Ibrahim a.s. praying for his parents in front of the Kabah?

W.salam wa rehmatullah

Its not must but a fact and a historical reality. Both Quran and Bible are saying the same thing i.e father of Ibrahim a.s was a kafir and mushrik. According to Quran name was Azar and Bible says he was Terah.

مَا كَانَ لِلنَّبِيِّ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَنْ يَسْتَغْفِرُوا لِلْمُشْرِكِينَ وَلَوْ كَانُوا أُولِي قُرْبَىٰ مِنْ بَعْدِ مَا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُمْ أَنَّهُمْ أَصْحَابُ الْجَحِيمِ

It is not proper for the Prophet and those who believe that they should beg forgiveness for the mushrikin, even though they be their relatives, after it has been explained to them that they are the inmates of hellfire. [Tauba 113]

وَمَا كَانَ اسْتِغْفَارُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ لِأَبِيهِ إِلَّا عَنْ مَوْعِدَةٍ وَعَدَهَا إِيَّاهُ فَلَمَّا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُ أَنَّهُ عَدُوٌّ لِلَّهِ تَبَرَّأَ مِنْهُ ۚ إِنَّ إِبْرَاهِيمَ لَأَوَّاهٌ حَلِيمٌ

Ibrahim (Abraham) prayed for his father's forgiveness only to fulfill a promise he had made to him. But when it became clear to him that he was an enemy of Allah he disassociated himself from him. The fact is that Ibrahim was tenderhearted, forbearing. [Tauba 114]

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5 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Its not must but a fact and a historical reality. Both Quran and Bible are saying the same thing i.e father of Ibrahim a.s was a kafir and mushrik. According to Quran name was Azar and Bible says he was Terah.

The Bible is not a norm and standard for muslims. It can be useful as an indicator sometimes but not as an authoritative text.

 

 

6 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

It is not proper for the Prophet and those who believe that they should beg forgiveness for the mushrikin, even though they be their relatives, after it has been explained to them that they are the inmates of hellfire. [Tauba 113]

That still says nothing about the status of his real father as already is proven that it can be used for a foster parent or uncle as well.

 

 

6 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Ibrahim (Abraham) prayed for his father's forgiveness only to fulfill a promise he had made to him. But when it became clear to him that he was an enemy of Allah he disassociated himself from him. The fact is that Ibrahim was tenderhearted, forbearing. [Tauba 114]

This still doesn't mean that this was about his real father. Second of all, Ibrahim a.s. was already an old man when Ismail and Ishaq were born so his prayer at the Kabah for his parents was in all probability long after the demise of his real father and uncle as well.

The disagreements are not about the Quran but about the ahaadith collections of sunni and shi'i islam.

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21 hours ago, Talut said:

The Bible is not a norm and standard for muslims. It can be useful as an indicator sometimes but not as an authoritative text.

But in this case bible is also testifying the same as Quran.

21 hours ago, Talut said:

That still says nothing about the status of his real father as already is proven that it can be used for a foster parent or uncle as well.

In arabic there is a separate word for uncle, maternal grand father etc. But Allah has used word abih and abaty (which refer to own biological father), not once but many times. And I think, Allah knows more arabic. And He had used correct words.

21 hours ago, Talut said:

This still doesn't mean that this was about his real father. Second of all, Ibrahim a.s. was already an old man when Ismail and Ishaq were born so his prayer at the Kabah for his parents was in all probability long after the demise of his real father and uncle as well.

The disagreements are not about the Quran but about the ahaadith collections of sunni and shi'i islam.

Read all verses about story of Ibrahim a.s and his father along with Tauba 113-114.

Disagreements are about Quran. Ahadith from both sides also say the same thing. Some of them are mentioned in this thread.

 

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15 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

But in this case bible is also testifying the same as Quran.

Only according to your interpretation.

 

 

15 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

In arabic there is a separate word for uncle, maternal grand father etc. But Allah has used word abih and abaty (which refer to own biological father), not once but many times. And I think, Allah knows more arabic. And He had used correct words.

It's not about the words but about what we consider to be the meaning of the words.

 

 

15 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Read all verses about story of Ibrahim a.s and his father along with Tauba 113-114.

I did and it appears to me that he a.s. was still a young boy when the events described in this surah occured.

 

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15 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

But in this case bible is also testifying the same as Quran.

Only according to your interpretation.

The Bible also says that Talut was cursed and commited suicide. Do we take that for granted as well?

 

 

15 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

In arabic there is a separate word for uncle, maternal grand father etc. But Allah has used word abih and abaty (which refer to own biological father), not once but many times. And I think, Allah knows more arabic. And He had used correct words.

It's not about the words but about what we consider to be the meaning of the words.

 

 

15 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Read all verses about story of Ibrahim a.s and his father along with Tauba 113-114.

I did and it appears to me that he a.s. was still a young boy when the events concerning his 'father' occured. In the verse of the prayer in surah Ibrahim for him and his parents his uncle probably already died and he a.s. did not have contact with him anymore as he a.s. left his country for good.

Why would Ibrahim only realize in old age long time after his death of his uncle that he actually died on disbelief and that there actually was no more hope for him?

And why would he a.s. still pray for him then?

 

Edited by Talut

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All praise be to Allah Who, despite my old age, has given me Ishmael and Isaac. Surely my Lord hears all prayers. (39) My Lord! Enable me and my offspring to establish Prayer, and do accept, our Lord, this prayer of mine. (40) Our Lord! Forgive me and my parents and the believers on the Day when the reckoning will take place." 

Surah Ibrahim

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9 hours ago, Talut said:

Only according to your interpretation.

The Bible also says that Talut was cursed and commited suicide. Do we take that for granted as well?

 

 

It's not about the words but about what we consider to be the meaning of the words.

 

 

I did and it appears to me that he a.s. was still a young boy when the events concerning his 'father' occured. In the verse of the prayer in surah Ibrahim for him and his parents his uncle probably already died and he a.s. did not have contact with him anymore as he a.s. left his country for good.

Why would Ibrahim only realize in old age long time after his death of his uncle that he actually died on disbelief and that there actually was no more hope for him?

And why would he a.s. still pray for him then?

 

In case of Father of Ibrahim a.s Bible is supporting Quran. Quran is the testing tool. WHile in case Talut a.s, Quran destroys bible story.

Meaning of words do not depend on our choice or on our man made beliefs. We can not paly with explicit commands of Allah.

I think Allah swt is more expert in arabic than google and other arabic people. There is separate word for uncle in arabic language i.e عم

 

Capture.PNG.21f0e318b1edb471d06b0290d022ffb5.PNG

 

9 hours ago, Talut said:

All praise be to Allah Who, despite my old age, has given me Ishmael and Isaac. Surely my Lord hears all prayers. (39) My Lord! Enable me and my offspring to establish Prayer, and do accept, our Lord, this prayer of mine. (40) Our Lord! Forgive me and my parents and the believers on the Day when the reckoning will take place." 

Surah Ibrahim

This dua is general. It can not nullify what is explicity mentioned in Quran by name not once, not twice but multiple times in many surahs. This dua also include believers in general sense. But on the day of judgement only those will be forgived who fulfill the conditions set by Allah swt and by Prophet s.a.w.w.

Following verses are very explicit. Bible plus shia and sunni narrations also testify the same. Assumptions, own interpretation are not the subsititute for truth.

On 2/2/2017 at 9:02 PM, Fahad Sani said:

Surah An'aam 74

وَإِذْ قَالَ إِبْرَاهِيمُ لِأَبِيهِ آزَرَ أَتَتَّخِذُ أَصْنَامًا آلِهَةً ۖ إِنِّي أَرَاكَ وَقَوْمَكَ فِي ضَلَالٍ مُبِينٍ
Lo! Abraham said to his father Azar: "Takest thou idols for gods? For I see thee and thy people in manifest error."

Surah Maryam 42-45

إِذْ قَالَ لِأَبِيهِ يَا أَبَتِ لِمَ تَعْبُدُ مَا لَا يَسْمَعُ وَلَا يُبْصِرُ وَلَا يُغْنِي عَنْكَ شَيْئًا
Behold, he said to his father: "O my father! why worship that which heareth not and seeth not, and can profit thee nothing? View more

يَا أَبَتِ إِنِّي قَدْ جَاءَنِي مِنَ الْعِلْمِ مَا لَمْ يَأْتِكَ فَاتَّبِعْنِي أَهْدِكَ صِرَاطًا سَوِيًّا
"O my father! to me hath come knowledge which hath not reached thee: so follow me: I will guide thee to a way that is even and straight.

يَا أَبَتِ لَا تَعْبُدِ الشَّيْطَانَ ۖ إِنَّ الشَّيْطَانَ كَانَ لِلرَّحْمَٰنِ عَصِيًّا
"O my father! serve not Satan: for Satan is a rebel against (Allah) Most Gracious. View more verses

يَا أَبَتِ إِنِّي أَخَافُ أَنْ يَمَسَّكَ عَذَابٌ مِنَ الرَّحْمَٰنِ فَتَكُونَ لِلشَّيْطَانِ وَلِيًّا
"O my father! I fear lest a Penalty afflict thee from (Allah) Most Gracious, so that thou become to Satan a friend."

 

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