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Testimonies from some modern shia scholars.

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1. Shia Ayatullah Burujerdi wrote in Taraiful Maqal, Volume 2, Page 356

وبالجملة الظاهر أن القدماء كانوا مختلفين في المسائل الأصولية، فربما كان
شئ عند بعضهم فاسدا أو كفرا أو غلوا، وعند آخرين عدمه بل مما يجب الاعتقاد
به، فينبغي التأمل في جرحهم بأمثال الأمور المذكورة

And the bottom line is that it is apparent that the beliefs of the classical scholars were different, so sometimes something according to them would be invalid/corrupt, kufr (disbelief) or Ghulu, while according to the latter scholars it would not be so, in fact it would be regarded obligatory to believe in it. Therefore it is required to think over their jarh (attacking/weakening of hadith narrator by rijal scholars) due to the issues such as those mentioned.

2. Shia Allama Mamqani wrote in his book Tanqihul Maqal (Volume 3, Page 230) in the biography of Mu’alla b. Khunais:

قال العلامة المامقاني في «تنقيح المقال» (ج3/ص 230) ضمن ترجمه «المعلَّى بن خُنَيْس»: «إن ما يُعدّ اليوم من ضروريات المذهب في أوصاف الأئمَّة عليهم السلام كان القول به معدوداً في العهد السابق من الغُلوِّ والارتفاع، ويُطعن بالقول به أوثق الرجال ويُرمون بالغلوّ

“Indeed what is counted presently among the fundamentals of religion with regards to the characteristics of the Imams (as), professing by it was regarded as Ghulu and elevation (of the status of the Imams) , and even highly trustworthy men would be slandered and cast aside for ghulu due to professing by it.”

Similarly Shia Allama Mamqani wrote under the biography of Muhammad b. Sinan (Tanqihul Maqal, Volume 3, Page 125):

وقال ذيل ترجمته لـ «محمد بن سنان» (ج3/ص125): «وقد بينّا مراراً عديدة أنه لا وثوق لنا برميهم رجلاً بالغلوّ، لأن ما هو الآن من الضروري عند الشيعة في مراتب الأئمَّة -عَليهِمُ السَّلام- كان يومئذ غلواً، حتى أن مثل الصدوق (ره) عد نفي السهو عنهم (ع) غلواً مع أن نفي السهو عنهم اليوم من ضروريات مذهبنا

“And we have explained many times that we can not trust their (classical scholars) decision of casting aside a man (hadith narrator) due to Ghulu, because what is now considered among a necessity of religion according to the Shias with regards to the ranks of the Imams (as), it was in those days Ghulu, such that Shaikh Sadooq (ra) listed the belief that the Ma’soomeen (as) do not forget as Ghulu although at present this belief is among the fundamentals of our religion.”

Shia Allama Mamqani wrote in Tanqihul Maqal (Volume 1, Page 334):

قال المامقاني في تنقيح المقال ج1 ص334 : قد نبهنا غير مرة على أن رمي القدماء سيما القميين منهم ، الرجل بالغلو لا يعتنى به ، لإن الاعتقاد بجملة مما هو الآن من ضروريات المذهب ، كان معدوداً عندهم من الغلو ، ألا ترى عدهم نفي السهو عن النبي صلى الله عليه وآله والأئمة عليهم السلام غلواً ، مع أن من لم ينفي السهو عنهم اليوم لا يعد مؤمناً ، ولقد أجاد الفاضل الحائري حيث قال : رمي القميين بالغلو وإخراجهم من قم لا يدل على ضعف أصلاً ، فإن أجل علمائنا وأوثقهم غالٍ على زعمهم ، ولو وجدوه في قم لأخرجوه منها لا محالة

We have warned more than once that an accusation from the classical scholars, especially of the ones from Qum, of a man (hadith narrator) being ghali should not be taken into consideration. This is because overall what is considered among the fundamentals of the religion these days was considered Ghulu by them. Do not you see that they counted denial of the belief that the Prophet (pbuh) and the Imams (as) can forget as Ghulu, even though one who does not deny that they (as) may forget would not be considered a momin (believer) these days. And Ayatullah Fadhil al Haeri excellently put it, where he said: “Accusation by the classical scholars of Qum, of hadith narrators being ghali and their exiling them from Qum (on charges of ghulu) does not prove in principle their da’f (weakness/unreliability). For indeed, most of our scholars and their most trustworthy ones would have been considered ghali by them, and if they had found them in Qum then they would have definitely exiled them from it inevitably.”

Shia Allama Mamqani wrote (in Tanqihul Maqal, a major shia rijal book, Page 170) under the biography of Muhammad b. al Furat:

وقال ذيل ترجمته لـ«محمد بن الفرات» (ص170) ما حاصله أن «الكشي» روى في ترجمته لـ«محمد بن الفرات» حديثين أظن أن قصده من روايتهما الاستدلال على غلوه، هذا مع أنه ليس في الحديثين ما يدل على الغلو لأن مضمونهما يُعدُّ اليومَ من ضروريات المذهب

“The point is that Shaikh al Kashi reported (in his book Rijal al Kashi) under the biography of Muhammad b. al Furat two ahadith, I (i.e. Allama Mamqani) think that his (Shaikh al Kashi) intention was to prove Muhammad b. al Furat’s Ghulu through those two narrations, despite that there was nothing in those ahadith which evidences upon Ghulu because their content is counted among the fundamentals of religion these days.”

 

Some examples from the beliefs of Ghulat which were adopted by modern Shia.

Example #1: Ghulat added the phrase (Ali un wali Allah) into the Adhan(call to prayer) and Iqamah.

Shia Shaikh Saduq wrote in his book:

هَذَا هُوَ الْأَذَانُ الصَّحِيحُ لَا يُزَادُ فِيهِ وَ لَا يُنْقَصُ مِنْهُ وَ الْمُفَوِّضَةُ لَعَنَهُمُ اللَّهُ قَدْ وَضَعُوا أَخْبَاراً وَ زَادُوا فِي الْأَذَانِ مُحَمَّدٌ وَ آلُ مُحَمَّدٍ خَيْرُ الْبَرِيَّةِ مَرَّتَيْنِ وَ فِي بَعْضِ رِوَايَاتِهِمْ بَعْدَ أَشْهَدُ أَنَّ مُحَمَّداً رَسُولُ اللَّهِ أَشْهَدُ أَنَّ عَلِيّاً وَلِيُّ اللَّهِ مَرَّتَيْنِ وَ مِنْهُمْ مَنْ رَوَى بَدَلَ ذَلِكَ أَشْهَدُ أَنَّ عَلِيّاً أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ حَقّاً مَرَّتَيْنِ وَ لَا شَكَّ فِي أَنَّ عَلِيّاً وَلِيُّ اللَّهِ وَ أَنَّهُ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ حَقّاً وَ أَنَّ مُحَمَّداً وَ آلَهُ صَلَوَاتُ اللَّهِ عَلَيْهِمْ خَيْرُ الْبَرِيَّةِ وَ لَكِنْ لَيْسَ ذَلِكَ فِي أَصْلِ الْأَذَانِ وَ إِنَّمَا ذَكَرْتُ ذَلِكَ لِيُعْرَفَ بِهَذِهِ الزِّيَادَةِ الْمُتَّهَمُونَ بِالتَّفْوِيضِ الْمُدَلِّسُونَ أَنْفُسَهُمْ فِي جُمْلَتِنَا

‘This is the authentic (Sahih) Adhan, nothing is to be added or subtracted from it. The Mufawwidah’s (form of Ghulat), may Allah curse them, have fabricated traditions and have added to the Adhan مُحَمَّدٌ وَ آلُ مُحَمَّدٍ خَيْرُ الْبَرِيَّةِ (Muhammad and the family of Muhammad are the best of mankind) twice. In some of their traditions, after saying أَشْهَدُ أَنَّ مُحَمَّداً رَسُولُ اللَّهِ (I bear witness that Muhammad is the Prophet of Allah) (they add) أَشْهَدُ أَنَّ عَلِيّاً وَلِيُّ اللَّهِ (I bear witness that ‘Ali is the Wali of Allah) twice. Among them there are others who narrate this أَشْهَدُ أَنَّ عَلِيّاً أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ (I bear witness that ‘Ali is the commander of the faithfull) twice. There is no doubt that ‘Ali is the Wali of Allah and that he is the true commander of the faithful and that Muhammad and his family, peace be upon them, are the best of creatures. However, that is not of the original Adhan. I have mentioned this so that those who have been accused of concocting tafwid and have insulated themselves in our ranks should be known”. (Man Laa YaHduruh Al-Faqeeh, vol. 1, pg. 290 – 291)

Example #2: Ghulat rejected the possibility of forgetfulness(Sahw) in Salah(prayer) from Prophet Muhammad(saw).

Classical Shia scholar Shaikh Saduq wrote in his book “Man la yahduruhul faqeeh”:

وكان شيخنا محمد بن الحسن بن أحمد بن الوليد رحمه الله يقول: أول درجة في الغلو نفي السهو عن النبي صلى الله عليه وآله، ولو جاز أن ترد الاخبار الواردة في هذا المعنى لجاز أن ترد جميع الاخبار(4) وفي ردها إبطال الدين والشريعة.

“And our sheikh Muhammad ibn Al-Hasan ibn Ahmad ibn al-Walid(rahimuhullah) said: “First level in Ghulu is denial of Sahw(forgetfulness) from Messenger(saaw), and if it is permitted to deny narrations with that meaning, then it’s permitted to deny all narrations, and in their denial is restriction(ibtal) of religion and Shariat”.

Then Sheikh Saduq quoted the words of his Shaikh, He added:

وأنا أحتسب الاجر في تصنيف كتاب منفرد في إثبات سهو النبي صلى الله عليه وآله والرد على منكريه إن شاء الله تعالى.

“And I hope to gain reward in compiling a book dedicated to prove Sahw(forgetfulness) of Nabi(saw) and refutation to those who reject that”.

Shia scholar Sheikh Saduq further said:

إن الغلاة والمفوضة لعنهم الله ينكرون سهو النبي صلى الله عليه وآله ويقولون: لو جاز أن يسهو عليه السلام في الصلاة لجاز أن يسهو في التبليغ

Al-Ghulat and al-mufaqida May Allah Curse Them, reject possibility of forgetfulness(Sahw) from Nabi(saw), they say: If error in prayer is possible, then error in tabligh is also possible”

Example #3: The Ghulat believed that Imams had Ilm al-Ghaib (knowledge of unseen).

Shaikh Mufid wrote in his book Awailul Maqalat (page 38):

فأما إطلاق القول عليهم بأنهم يعلمون الغيب فهو منكر بيِّنُ الفساد

“As for saying that the Imams know Ghaib, so it is an extremely evil and corrupt belief.

Ibn Shahr Ashoob (586 AH) wrote in his book Mutashabih al Qur’an (Volume 1 page 211):

النبيّ والإمام يجب أن يعلما علوم الدين والشريعة ولا يجب أن يعلما الغيب وما كان وما يكون، لأنّ ذلك يؤدّي إلى أنّهما مشاركان للقديم تعالى

“The Prophet and the Imam must have full knowledge of the Islamic laws,but it is not incumbent upon them to have knowledge of ghaib, after all that would then mean that they are partners of Allah.

Shia scholar, Shaikh Sadooq in his book Kamal al Deen, page 116 stated:

قد أكثرت في ذكر علم الغيب، والغيب لا يعلمه إلا الله، وما ادعاه لبشر إلا مشرك كافر

We have expanded a lot about the issue of knowledge of the unseen, and no one knows the unseen except Allah (swt), and no one claims it for a human except for a polytheistic disbeliever (mushrik kafir).[Kamal al Deen, page 116]

Example #4: The Ghulat held the belief of Tafwidh

Classical Shia scholar Shaikh Sadooq in his book Iteqadat, under:

باب الاعتقاد في نفي الغلو والتفويض

Chapter: Belief in negation of the Ghulu(exaggerating the status of the Imams) and the tafwidh(delegation of affairs of creation) stated:

وروي عن زرارة أنه قال ، قلت للصادق ـ عليه السلام ـ : ( إن رجلا من ولد عبد الله بن سبأ يقول بالتفويض.
قال ـ عليه السلام ـ : ( وما التفويض ) ؟ قلت : يقول : إن الله عزوجل خلق محمدا صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم وعليا ـ عليه السلام ـ ثم فوض الأمر  إليهما ، فخلقا ، ورزقا ، وأحييا ، وأماتا.
فقال : ( كذب عدو الله ، إذا رجعت إليه فاقرأ عليه الآية التي في سورة الرعد ( أم جعلوا لله شركاء خلقوا كخلقه فتشابه الخلق عليهم قل الله خالق كل شيء وهو الواحد القاهر ) . فانصرفت إلى رجل فأخبرته بما قال الصادق ـ عليه السلام ـ  فكأنما ألقمته حجرا ، أو قال : فكأنما خرس

And it is narrated from Zurarah that he said, I said to Imam al Sadiq (as): “Indeed a man from children of Abdullah ibn Saba professes by tafwidh.” Said [Imam] (as): “And what is tafwidh?” I said: “He says: Indeed Allah (swt) created Muhammad (pbuh) and Ali (as), then delegated the command to them, for creation, and to give rizq (sustenance), and to give life, and to give death.” So [Imam (as)] said: “Enemy of Allah (swt) lied, when you go back to him then recite upon him these ayaat (verses) in Surah al Ra’d (Abdullah Yusuf Ali’s translation): [Or do they assign to God partners who have created (anything) as He has created, so that the creation seemed to them similar? Say: “God is the Creator of all things: He is the One, the Supreme and Irresistible.”] So I turned (went back) to (that) man, then informed him by what Imam al Sadiq (as) had said, so it (his reaction) was as if he had swallowed a stone or had become mute/dumb.”

Similarly, Shia Shiekh Sadooq in his, Uyun Akhbar al Redha, Volume 1, Page 219, stated:

حدثنا محمد بن علي ماجيلويه (ره) قال: حدثنا علي بن إبراهيم بن هاشم عن أبيه عن ياسر الخادم قال: قلت للرضا عليه السلام ما تقول في التفويض؟ فقال: إن الله تبارك وتعالى فوض إلى نبيه (ص) أمر دينه فقال: (ما آتيكم الرسول فخذوه وما نهيكم عنه فانتهوا)  فاما الخلق والرزق فلا، ثم قال عليه السلام: إن الله عز وجل يقول: (الله خالق كل شئ) وهو يقول: (الله الذي خلقكم ثم رزقكم ثم يميتكم ثم يحييكم قل هل من شركائكم يفعل من ذلكم من شئ سبحانه وتعالى عما يشركون

Told us Muhammad b. ali Majiloweh (ra) who said: Told us ali b. Ibrahim b. Hashim from his father from Yasser the servant who said: I said to Imam al Redha (as): “What do you say about al tafwidh (the belief that Allah has delegated the affairs of creation to His chosen people)?” So [Imam (as)] said: “Indeed Allah (swt) delegated to His (swt) prophet command of His (swt) religion.” Then [Imam (as)] said: “So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you.” (Al Qur’an 59:7), as for the creation and the sustenance, then no.” Then [Imam (as)] said: “Indeed Allah (swt) says (in al Qur’an 13:16): “Allah is the Creator of all things”, and He (swt) says (in al Qur’an 30:40): “It is God Who has created you: further, He has provided for your sustenance; then He will cause you to die; and again He will give you life. Are there any of your (false) “Partners” who can do any single one of these things? Glory to Him! and high is He above the partners they attribute (to him)!”

Example #5: The Ghulat denied the occurrence of the marriage between Umar bin khattab(as) and daughter of Ali(as) – Umm Kulthum.

We read in Shia book Mirat ul Uqool:

عن الشيخ محمد بن محمد بن النعمان أرفعه إلى عمر بن أذينة قال: قلت لأبي عبد الله عليه السلام: إن الناس يحتجون علينا أن أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام زوج فلانا ابنته أم كلثوم، و كان عليه السلام متكئا فجلس و قال: أ تقبلون أن عليا أنكح فلانا ابنته؟ إن قوما يزعمون ذلك ما يهتدون إلى سواء السبيل و لا الرشاد ثم صفق بيده، و قال: سبحان الله أما كان أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام يقدر أن يحول بينه و بينها، كذبوا لم يكن ما قالوا، إن فلانا خطب إلى علي عليه السلام بنته أم كلثوم فأبى فقال للعباس: و الله لئن لم يزوجني لأنزعن منك السقاية و زمزم فأتى العباس عليا فكلمه فأبى عليه فألح العباس، فلما رأى أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام مشقة كلام الرجل على العباس و أنه سيفعل معه ما قال، أرسل إلى جنية من أهل نجران يهودية يقال لها صحيقة بنت حريرية فأمرها فتمثلت في مثال أم كلثوم، و حجبت الأبصار عن أم كلثوم بها و بعث بها إلى الرجل فلم تزل عنده حتى أنه استراب بها يوما فقال ما في الأرض أهل بيت أسحر من بني هاشم، ثم أراد أن يظهر للناس فقتل فحوت الميراث و انصرفت إلى نجران، و أظهر أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام أم كلثوم،

Umar ibn Uzaynah asked Imam Jafar Sadiq: ‘People claim that ‘Ali married his daughter to such a person’. The Imam, who was until then sitting down, stood up and said angrily, “Whoever holds such a viewpoint is misled.” Subhanallah! Was Imam ‘Ali unable to free his daughter from their clutches? He could have stood between them and her to protect, they have fabricated a lie … (the whole story of Umm Kulthum being replaced by Jinn and the Jinn’s marriage to Umar thereforth)

Esteemed Shia scholar Mulla Baqir Majlisi says regarding it:

أقول: لا منافاة بينه و بين سائر الأخبار الواردة في أنه زوجه أم كلثوم، لأنهم صلوات الله عليهم، كانوا يتقون من غلاة الشيعة، و كان هذا من الأسرار، و لم يكن أكثر أصحابهم قائلين لها، كذا ذكره الوالد العلامة قدس الله روحه

I say: There is no contradiction between this narration and the other narrations that he married his daughter Umm Kulthum, because the Imams would fear from the Ghulat Shia, and this is from the secrets, and because plenty of his companions didn’t believe in it, this is what Allamah has also mentioned. (Mirat ul Uqool, Vol. 21, p. 198).

Example #6: The Ghulat denied the three daughters of Prophet Muhammad(saw) being his biological daughters.

Esteemed Shia scholars such as, Ibn Shahr Ashoob in, Manaaqib, vol. 1, pg. 159; and Al-Majlisi in, Bihaar Al-Anwaar, vol. 22, ch. 2, pg. 191 stated:

“And the bidah(innovation) that Ruqayyah and Zaynab were two daughters of Haalah, sister of Khadeejah”.

Shia scholar Al-Tustaree(d. 1415 AH) said that this bid`ah(innovation) was started from the book of Abu Al-Qaasim Al-Koofee, we read:

“Then there is no doubt that Zaynab and Ruqayyah were daughters of the Prophet(saw) , and the bid`ah which it has been mentioned in the book of Abu Al-Qaasim (Al-Koofee).”(Al-Tustaree, Qaamoos Al-Rijaal, vol. 9, pg. 450).

This, Ali bin ahmad Abu Al-Qaasim Al-Koofee was Ghali Shia. There is an ijmaa`(consensus) among classical Shia scholars to contemporary scholars on the status of Abu Al-Qaasim Al-Koofee. They have all said that he was a “Ghulat (exaggerator), “kadhaab” (liar), and a person who had a “faasid madhhab” (corrupt belief).

Classical Shia scholar Ibn Al-GhaDaa’iree (d. 411 AH) said about him:

“Liar, Ghaali (exaggerator), person of bid`ah and discourse. I saw that he has many books, and he is not turned to.” (Kitaab Al-Du`afaa, pg. 82, person # 104)

Classical Shia scholar Al-Najaashee (d. 450 AH) said about him:

Ghulaa (exaggerator) at the end of his life, and he has a fasad (corrupt) belief, and he composed many books, many (of those books while) on the fasaad (corrupt belief)”

“And this man is claimed to the Ghulat a great position”. (Rijaal Al-Najaashee, pg. 265 – 266, person # 691).

Classical Shia scholar Al-Toosee (d. 460 AH) said about him:

He was an Imaamee (12er Shee`ah) of the straight path, and he composed many relevant books, from them were: Kitaab Al-Awsiyaa‟, Kitaab fee Al-Fiqh `ala Tarteeb, and Kitaab Al-Muzinee. Then, was confused, and showed the madhhab of al-mukhammasah, and he composed books in the (states of) Ghulu and confusion” [Al-Toosi, Fihrist Al-Toosee, pg. 271, person # 390]

 

Imam Jafar Sadiq a.s about ghulat (exaggerators)

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Shia Shaikh Tusi  in Al Amali, page 650 wrote:

1349 / 12 – وعنه، قال: أخبرنا الحسين بن عبيد الله، قال: أخبرنا أحمد بن محمد بن يحيى العطار، قال: حدثنا أبي، عن أحمد بن محمد بن خالد، عن العباس ابن معروف، عن عبد الرحمن بن مسلم، عن فضيل بن يسار، قال: قال الصادق (عليه السلام): احذروا على شبابكم الغلاة لا يفسدونهم، فإن الغلاة شر خلق الله، يصغرون عظمة الله، ويدعون الربوبية لعباد الله، والله إن الغلاة شر من اليهود والنصارى والمجوس والذين أشركوا.
12/1349- And from him, who said: Informed us al Hussain b. Ubaidillah, who said: Informed us Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Yahya al Attar, who said: Told us my father, from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Khalid, from al Abbas b. Ma’roof, from Abdur Rahman b. Muslim, from Fudail b. Yassar, who said: Imam al Sadiq (as) said: Protect your youth, so that the Ghulat do not corrupt them, for indeed the Ghulat are the most evil makhlooq of Allah. They lessen the glory of Allah and claim divinity for the slaves of Allah. By Allah! Indeed the Ghulat are worse than the Jews, Christians, Majoos, and those who do polytheism.”

 

Edited by Fahad Sani

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@Fahad Sani

1. Answer of Ghulat number one.

Wilayah is necessary obligation to be professed by a believer.  Imam Reza a.s did not considered it as Juz of Adhan but did not render it as Haram as well because it is necessary to remind a Muslim about his leader after Prophet.

Quran itself remind us that "Allah is your wali and your prophet and those among authority". So, if is is in Quran then why it seems Ghulat to people.

The reason it was not part of Adhan in the time of Prophet was that prophet the center of guidance and his name was in Adhan remind people whom to search for guidance after God.

Imam Ali a.s said: "Haya alal falah in Adhan implied towards Ahlul bait and this word was removed by Umar although it was Juz of Adhsn".

So, Haya alal falah meant also Aliyun waliullah.

Now I ask you why did umar add word "Asalat tu khair minan noum  (salah is better than sleep".

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1 hour ago, Fahad Sani said:

:bismillah:

:salam:

 

Testimonies from some modern shia scholars.

 

Some examples from the beliefs of Ghulat which were adopted by modern Shia.

Example #1: Ghulat added the phrase (Ali un wali Allah) into the Adhan(call to prayer) and Iqamah.

Shia Shaikh Saduq wrote in his book:

هَذَا هُوَ الْأَذَانُ الصَّحِيحُ لَا يُزَادُ فِيهِ وَ لَا يُنْقَصُ مِنْهُ وَ الْمُفَوِّضَةُ لَعَنَهُمُ اللَّهُ قَدْ وَضَعُوا أَخْبَاراً وَ زَادُوا فِي الْأَذَانِ مُحَمَّدٌ وَ آلُ مُحَمَّدٍ خَيْرُ الْبَرِيَّةِ مَرَّتَيْنِ وَ فِي بَعْضِ رِوَايَاتِهِمْ بَعْدَ أَشْهَدُ أَنَّ مُحَمَّداً رَسُولُ اللَّهِ أَشْهَدُ أَنَّ عَلِيّاً وَلِيُّ اللَّهِ مَرَّتَيْنِ وَ مِنْهُمْ مَنْ رَوَى بَدَلَ ذَلِكَ أَشْهَدُ أَنَّ عَلِيّاً أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ حَقّاً مَرَّتَيْنِ وَ لَا شَكَّ فِي أَنَّ عَلِيّاً وَلِيُّ اللَّهِ وَ أَنَّهُ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ حَقّاً وَ أَنَّ مُحَمَّداً وَ آلَهُ صَلَوَاتُ اللَّهِ عَلَيْهِمْ خَيْرُ الْبَرِيَّةِ وَ لَكِنْ لَيْسَ ذَلِكَ فِي أَصْلِ الْأَذَانِ وَ إِنَّمَا ذَكَرْتُ ذَلِكَ لِيُعْرَفَ بِهَذِهِ الزِّيَادَةِ الْمُتَّهَمُونَ بِالتَّفْوِيضِ الْمُدَلِّسُونَ أَنْفُسَهُمْ فِي جُمْلَتِنَا

‘This is the authentic (Sahih) Adhan, nothing is to be added or subtracted from it. The Mufawwidah’s (form of Ghulat), may Allah curse them, have fabricated traditions and have added to the Adhan مُحَمَّدٌ وَ آلُ مُحَمَّدٍ خَيْرُ الْبَرِيَّةِ (Muhammad and the family of Muhammad are the best of mankind) twice. In some of their traditions, after saying أَشْهَدُ أَنَّ مُحَمَّداً رَسُولُ اللَّهِ (I bear witness that Muhammad is the Prophet of Allah) (they add) أَشْهَدُ أَنَّ عَلِيّاً وَلِيُّ اللَّهِ (I bear witness that ‘Ali is the Wali of Allah) twice. Among them there are others who narrate this أَشْهَدُ أَنَّ عَلِيّاً أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ (I bear witness that ‘Ali is the commander of the faithfull) twice. There is no doubt that ‘Ali is the Wali of Allah and that he is the true commander of the faithful and that Muhammad and his family, peace be upon them, are the best of creatures. However, that is not of the original Adhan. I have mentioned this so that those who have been accused of concocting tafwid and have insulated themselves in our ranks should be known”. (Man Laa YaHduruh Al-Faqeeh, vol. 1, pg. 290 – 291)

Example #2: Ghulat rejected the possibility of forgetfulness(Sahw) in Salah(prayer) from Prophet Muhammad(saw).

Classical Shia scholar Shaikh Saduq wrote in his book “Man la yahduruhul faqeeh”:

وكان شيخنا محمد بن الحسن بن أحمد بن الوليد رحمه الله يقول: أول درجة في الغلو نفي السهو عن النبي صلى الله عليه وآله، ولو جاز أن ترد الاخبار الواردة في هذا المعنى لجاز أن ترد جميع الاخبار(4) وفي ردها إبطال الدين والشريعة.

“And our sheikh Muhammad ibn Al-Hasan ibn Ahmad ibn al-Walid(rahimuhullah) said: “First level in Ghulu is denial of Sahw(forgetfulness) from Messenger(saaw), and if it is permitted to deny narrations with that meaning, then it’s permitted to deny all narrations, and in their denial is restriction(ibtal) of religion and Shariat”.

Then Sheikh Saduq quoted the words of his Shaikh, He added:

وأنا أحتسب الاجر في تصنيف كتاب منفرد في إثبات سهو النبي صلى الله عليه وآله والرد على منكريه إن شاء الله تعالى.

“And I hope to gain reward in compiling a book dedicated to prove Sahw(forgetfulness) of Nabi(saw) and refutation to those who reject that”.

Shia scholar Sheikh Saduq further said:

إن الغلاة والمفوضة لعنهم الله ينكرون سهو النبي صلى الله عليه وآله ويقولون: لو جاز أن يسهو عليه السلام في الصلاة لجاز أن يسهو في التبليغ

Al-Ghulat and al-mufaqida May Allah Curse Them, reject possibility of forgetfulness(Sahw) from Nabi(saw), they say: If error in prayer is possible, then error in tabligh is also possible”

Example #3: The Ghulat believed that Imams had Ilm al-Ghaib (knowledge of unseen).

Shaikh Mufid wrote in his book Awailul Maqalat (page 38):

فأما إطلاق القول عليهم بأنهم يعلمون الغيب فهو منكر بيِّنُ الفساد

“As for saying that the Imams know Ghaib, so it is an extremely evil and corrupt belief.

Ibn Shahr Ashoob (586 AH) wrote in his book Mutashabih al Qur’an (Volume 1 page 211):

النبيّ والإمام يجب أن يعلما علوم الدين والشريعة ولا يجب أن يعلما الغيب وما كان وما يكون، لأنّ ذلك يؤدّي إلى أنّهما مشاركان للقديم تعالى

“The Prophet and the Imam must have full knowledge of the Islamic laws,but it is not incumbent upon them to have knowledge of ghaib, after all that would then mean that they are partners of Allah.

Shia scholar, Shaikh Sadooq in his book Kamal al Deen, page 116 stated:

قد أكثرت في ذكر علم الغيب، والغيب لا يعلمه إلا الله، وما ادعاه لبشر إلا مشرك كافر

We have expanded a lot about the issue of knowledge of the unseen, and no one knows the unseen except Allah (swt), and no one claims it for a human except for a polytheistic disbeliever (mushrik kafir).[Kamal al Deen, page 116]

Example #4: The Ghulat held the belief of Tafwidh

Classical Shia scholar Shaikh Sadooq in his book Iteqadat, under:

باب الاعتقاد في نفي الغلو والتفويض

Chapter: Belief in negation of the Ghulu(exaggerating the status of the Imams) and the tafwidh(delegation of affairs of creation) stated:

وروي عن زرارة أنه قال ، قلت للصادق ـ عليه السلام ـ : ( إن رجلا من ولد عبد الله بن سبأ يقول بالتفويض.
قال ـ عليه السلام ـ : ( وما التفويض ) ؟ قلت : يقول : إن الله عزوجل خلق محمدا صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم وعليا ـ عليه السلام ـ ثم فوض الأمر  إليهما ، فخلقا ، ورزقا ، وأحييا ، وأماتا.
فقال : ( كذب عدو الله ، إذا رجعت إليه فاقرأ عليه الآية التي في سورة الرعد ( أم جعلوا لله شركاء خلقوا كخلقه فتشابه الخلق عليهم قل الله خالق كل شيء وهو الواحد القاهر ) . فانصرفت إلى رجل فأخبرته بما قال الصادق ـ عليه السلام ـ  فكأنما ألقمته حجرا ، أو قال : فكأنما خرس

And it is narrated from Zurarah that he said, I said to Imam al Sadiq (as): “Indeed a man from children of Abdullah ibn Saba professes by tafwidh.” Said [Imam] (as): “And what is tafwidh?” I said: “He says: Indeed Allah (swt) created Muhammad (pbuh) and Ali (as), then delegated the command to them, for creation, and to give rizq (sustenance), and to give life, and to give death.” So [Imam (as)] said: “Enemy of Allah (swt) lied, when you go back to him then recite upon him these ayaat (verses) in Surah al Ra’d (Abdullah Yusuf Ali’s translation): [Or do they assign to God partners who have created (anything) as He has created, so that the creation seemed to them similar? Say: “God is the Creator of all things: He is the One, the Supreme and Irresistible.”] So I turned (went back) to (that) man, then informed him by what Imam al Sadiq (as) had said, so it (his reaction) was as if he had swallowed a stone or had become mute/dumb.”

Similarly, Shia Shiekh Sadooq in his, Uyun Akhbar al Redha, Volume 1, Page 219, stated:

حدثنا محمد بن علي ماجيلويه (ره) قال: حدثنا علي بن إبراهيم بن هاشم عن أبيه عن ياسر الخادم قال: قلت للرضا عليه السلام ما تقول في التفويض؟ فقال: إن الله تبارك وتعالى فوض إلى نبيه (ص) أمر دينه فقال: (ما آتيكم الرسول فخذوه وما نهيكم عنه فانتهوا)  فاما الخلق والرزق فلا، ثم قال عليه السلام: إن الله عز وجل يقول: (الله خالق كل شئ) وهو يقول: (الله الذي خلقكم ثم رزقكم ثم يميتكم ثم يحييكم قل هل من شركائكم يفعل من ذلكم من شئ سبحانه وتعالى عما يشركون

Told us Muhammad b. ali Majiloweh (ra) who said: Told us ali b. Ibrahim b. Hashim from his father from Yasser the servant who said: I said to Imam al Redha (as): “What do you say about al tafwidh (the belief that Allah has delegated the affairs of creation to His chosen people)?” So [Imam (as)] said: “Indeed Allah (swt) delegated to His (swt) prophet command of His (swt) religion.” Then [Imam (as)] said: “So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you.” (Al Qur’an 59:7), as for the creation and the sustenance, then no.” Then [Imam (as)] said: “Indeed Allah (swt) says (in al Qur’an 13:16): “Allah is the Creator of all things”, and He (swt) says (in al Qur’an 30:40): “It is God Who has created you: further, He has provided for your sustenance; then He will cause you to die; and again He will give you life. Are there any of your (false) “Partners” who can do any single one of these things? Glory to Him! and high is He above the partners they attribute (to him)!”

Example #5: The Ghulat denied the occurrence of the marriage between Umar bin khattab(as) and daughter of Ali(as) – Umm Kulthum.

We read in Shia book Mirat ul Uqool:

عن الشيخ محمد بن محمد بن النعمان أرفعه إلى عمر بن أذينة قال: قلت لأبي عبد الله عليه السلام: إن الناس يحتجون علينا أن أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام زوج فلانا ابنته أم كلثوم، و كان عليه السلام متكئا فجلس و قال: أ تقبلون أن عليا أنكح فلانا ابنته؟ إن قوما يزعمون ذلك ما يهتدون إلى سواء السبيل و لا الرشاد ثم صفق بيده، و قال: سبحان الله أما كان أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام يقدر أن يحول بينه و بينها، كذبوا لم يكن ما قالوا، إن فلانا خطب إلى علي عليه السلام بنته أم كلثوم فأبى فقال للعباس: و الله لئن لم يزوجني لأنزعن منك السقاية و زمزم فأتى العباس عليا فكلمه فأبى عليه فألح العباس، فلما رأى أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام مشقة كلام الرجل على العباس و أنه سيفعل معه ما قال، أرسل إلى جنية من أهل نجران يهودية يقال لها صحيقة بنت حريرية فأمرها فتمثلت في مثال أم كلثوم، و حجبت الأبصار عن أم كلثوم بها و بعث بها إلى الرجل فلم تزل عنده حتى أنه استراب بها يوما فقال ما في الأرض أهل بيت أسحر من بني هاشم، ثم أراد أن يظهر للناس فقتل فحوت الميراث و انصرفت إلى نجران، و أظهر أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام أم كلثوم،

Umar ibn Uzaynah asked Imam Jafar Sadiq: ‘People claim that ‘Ali married his daughter to such a person’. The Imam, who was until then sitting down, stood up and said angrily, “Whoever holds such a viewpoint is misled.” Subhanallah! Was Imam ‘Ali unable to free his daughter from their clutches? He could have stood between them and her to protect, they have fabricated a lie … (the whole story of Umm Kulthum being replaced by Jinn and the Jinn’s marriage to Umar thereforth)

Esteemed Shia scholar Mulla Baqir Majlisi says regarding it:

أقول: لا منافاة بينه و بين سائر الأخبار الواردة في أنه زوجه أم كلثوم، لأنهم صلوات الله عليهم، كانوا يتقون من غلاة الشيعة، و كان هذا من الأسرار، و لم يكن أكثر أصحابهم قائلين لها، كذا ذكره الوالد العلامة قدس الله روحه

I say: There is no contradiction between this narration and the other narrations that he married his daughter Umm Kulthum, because the Imams would fear from the Ghulat Shia, and this is from the secrets, and because plenty of his companions didn’t believe in it, this is what Allamah has also mentioned. (Mirat ul Uqool, Vol. 21, p. 198).

Example #6: The Ghulat denied the three daughters of Prophet Muhammad(saw) being his biological daughters.

Esteemed Shia scholars such as, Ibn Shahr Ashoob in, Manaaqib, vol. 1, pg. 159; and Al-Majlisi in, Bihaar Al-Anwaar, vol. 22, ch. 2, pg. 191 stated:

“And the bidah(innovation) that Ruqayyah and Zaynab were two daughters of Haalah, sister of Khadeejah”.

Shia scholar Al-Tustaree(d. 1415 AH) said that this bid`ah(innovation) was started from the book of Abu Al-Qaasim Al-Koofee, we read:

“Then there is no doubt that Zaynab and Ruqayyah were daughters of the Prophet(saw) , and the bid`ah which it has been mentioned in the book of Abu Al-Qaasim (Al-Koofee).”(Al-Tustaree, Qaamoos Al-Rijaal, vol. 9, pg. 450).

This, Ali bin ahmad Abu Al-Qaasim Al-Koofee was Ghali Shia. There is an ijmaa`(consensus) among classical Shia scholars to contemporary scholars on the status of Abu Al-Qaasim Al-Koofee. They have all said that he was a “Ghulat (exaggerator), “kadhaab” (liar), and a person who had a “faasid madhhab” (corrupt belief).

Classical Shia scholar Ibn Al-GhaDaa’iree (d. 411 AH) said about him:

“Liar, Ghaali (exaggerator), person of bid`ah and discourse. I saw that he has many books, and he is not turned to.” (Kitaab Al-Du`afaa, pg. 82, person # 104)

Classical Shia scholar Al-Najaashee (d. 450 AH) said about him:

Ghulaa (exaggerator) at the end of his life, and he has a fasad (corrupt) belief, and he composed many books, many (of those books while) on the fasaad (corrupt belief)”

“And this man is claimed to the Ghulat a great position”. (Rijaal Al-Najaashee, pg. 265 – 266, person # 691).

Classical Shia scholar Al-Toosee (d. 460 AH) said about him:

He was an Imaamee (12er Shee`ah) of the straight path, and he composed many relevant books, from them were: Kitaab Al-Awsiyaa‟, Kitaab fee Al-Fiqh `ala Tarteeb, and Kitaab Al-Muzinee. Then, was confused, and showed the madhhab of al-mukhammasah, and he composed books in the (states of) Ghulu and confusion” [Al-Toosi, Fihrist Al-Toosee, pg. 271, person # 390]

 

Imam Jafar Sadiq a.s about ghulat (exaggerators)

 

Salam brother 

Old don't mind most of ur posts  Acts like bouncer  To me I don't get any of them correctly

I actually am wondering what are u trying to prove brother which trip u r on?

Every shia act and belief is wrong according to u everything every fatwa and u literally get pointless argument

What are u trying to Prove ?

Every shia is idiot to  Keep faith on scholars every 12 ver Is hypocritic very Shi'a scholar researches on [Edited Out] for their whole life their fatwas words and research has nothing real everything about imam as is just exaggeration(Nauzobillah) ???? 

U really wanna prove All this  

So let's do one thing u sit On their chairs and show us ri8 path na if u think they are so wrong so hypocritic and their words have no origin Jo meaning nauzobillah 

Plz brother maintain some dignity of scholars respect them and stop making fun Of their Life which they spent in path of lord sometimes when u find everything wrong it doesn't mean actually all things are Wrong There Could   be mistake in ones understanding  

U r simply putting forward points to argue which actually has no meaning

Brother exaggeration in azan ?? Seriously?

First of all azan is not an obligatory act I hope u know that azan Ki baat aahini skti wajib hai hi ni 

And when we talk about aliyun waliyullah to ye sunnatey rasule khuda sww hai

Its prophet Mohammed Sww sunnah

On ghadeer prophet declared to accept Ali as as Wali of khuda and  Wasi   of    Prophet 

  Plz put some lights on ur thoughts

Edited by Pearl3112

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@Fahad Sani 

Answer of Ghulat number 2.

As said that the Shaw was denied because prophet did not forget things right. Have I understood correctly?

If that is so then it is true that Prophet did not forget and neither imams but we do forget.  The hadith about about Prophet is true but for a layman one must not forget that any action done out of forgetfulness and sleep is null and void in islamic law until one professes that he did not forget and was conscious. If you read judgements of Imam Ali a.s you will find that Imam did not hold anyone responsible for an act until he found him legally capable. If one drinks water something out of forgetfulness in fasting  and did not remembered it, then his fast is accepted but if he remembered it then his kafarrah is his embarrassment and after that his fast is also accepted. It may have happened that in past ulemas have not thought about psychological kafarrah but it was always there.  Same is case for prayer if one is sure that he did not forget in prayer,  his prayer is accepted even though he may have forgotten but if he remembered, he has to seek kafarrah by sajidah sahw or rakat e ahtiyat.

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13 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

1. Answer of Ghulat nuqe.

Wilayah is necessary obligation to be professed by a believer.  Imam Reza a.s did not considered it as Juz of Adhan but did not render it as Haram as well because it is necessary to remind a Muslim about his leader after Prophet.

Quran itself remind us that "Allah is your wali and your prophet and those among authority". So, if is is in Quran then why it seems Ghulat to people.

The reason it was not part of Adhan in the time of Prophet was that prophet the center of guidance and his name was in Adhan remind people whom to search for guidance after God.

Imam Ali a.s said: "Haya alal falah in Adhan implied towards Ahlul bait and this word was removed by Umar although it was Juz of Adhsn".

So, Haya alal falah meant also Aliyun waliullah.

Now I ask you why did umar add word "Asalat tu khair minan noum  (salah is better than sleep".

Ri8 

Surah nisa ayat 59 

From  

Ya ayyuhal lazina.......... Minkum

"Obey Allah,obey his messenger sww and those with authority among him"

This authority among him are ahlulbait as 

Ulul amre minkum-12 imams 

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@Fahad Sani

Answer of Ghulat Number 3

First of all one needs to define what is Ilmul Ghaib.

Ilmul Ghaib is actually refers to knowledge which one may not know such as a child did not know to speak but then by age Allah (SWT) gives strength to his intellect that he learns to speak which was unknown to him before, then when he enters into first education institutions, he begin to learn what he did not know before and it was hidden knowledge for him, likewise, when he attains proficiency he may have much more access to education into his field but he may not have access to the knowledge of other profession and neither he can say that he is attained full knowledge about his field.

We also learn hidden knowledge in our way, so if we can also have hidden knowledge which we do not know before then why should we deny the hidden knowledge of Prophet and Imams. Prophet PBUHHp said out of 10 parts of knowledge, Ali has been taught 9 parts of knowledge and the whole creation has been share 1 part of the knowledge and among that knowledge, Ali has been shared more than the people. Secondly, there is another hadith from Masomeen a.s which says that when Imam al Mehdi a.s will arrive in the world, the world will be developed on the basis of two words but when Imam Al Mahdi a.s will come, he a.s will share 29 other words of knowledge which means disciplines of knowledge.

So, in Ilmul Ghaib, Ahle bait are superior to us. Albeit the Ilmul Ghaib which Prophets and Imam do not know is the quote which is uttered by Imam Ali a.s: "O! Allah, you are the only one who know yourself fully and none is there who can praise you  to the full".

Allah (SWT) is absolute knowledgeable and He is the only one who knows himself, while Ahle bait a.s depend upon the knowledge of Allah (SWT) and are not absolute in knowledge as compared to Allah (SWT). And, before us, they are most knowledgeable after Allah (SWT) and we are nothing as compared to them. They have been share Ilmul Ghaib by Allah (SWT), so, none can compare them with him or herself. We should know our place rather then speaking about what they know. they are superior to us and have to be obedient to them. A child ought not to speak of his guardians rather praise them for it will be considered unethical and surely, Allah (SWT) does not likes it. 

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@Fahad Sani

Answer of Ghulat attributed to Shias

Did not Allah (SWT) delegated Prophet PBUHHP and Ali a.s with the responsibility of Hidayah till today ? Yes, He did. Every Muslims believes that when Allah (SWT) chooses someone, he delegates his affairs which He (AWJ) wills upon the people, he choose. In Quran, it is written: "you are best of the nations, you enjoin what is good and forbade what is evil". So, is this a ghulat to if we have been awarded with this responsibility while other such as Christians, Jews and Zoroasters do not possess such blessing ?

Secondly, if you read in Quran, it is written that Allah (SWT) bestowed Luqman with the wisdom by using which he used to treat people well and he has remedy for every disease except Death and Doubt. So, was it a Ghulat also ? No brother, it was reward upon him but it also required him to use it for the best of mankind.

Thirdly, if you see that Prophet PBUHHP split the moon and said that I know that who among all of the mankind will go to heaven and hell, it is also not Ghulat but reward but He (PBUHHP) did not reveal it because they consider it as revealing secrets of Allah (SWT).

As for Imams and Ahlul bait, they have been considered Wasilah in Quran which means that they are source where from our problems get solved either they be spiritual or social problems. So, why you deny that if God call them Wasilah. They can raise people from graves if they want with the will of Allah (SWT), the listen to us with the aid of Allah (SWT) even when they are not physical visible and they intercede for us to Allah (SWT). Yes, we do believe that Imam Mehdi a.s is dispenser of our affairs on behalf of Allah (SWT) with the permission of Allah (SWT) and with all the obedient servants such as angels help him as his assistants. As he a.s will one day raise standards of Islam over whole of the world. He a.s is who is loved by Allah (SWT) and if we make prayer to Allah (SWT) with his name, we are sure, our prayers will not be turned down if they are in our best interests. So, if Allah (SWT) has given them authority who are you to deny. And to tell you do not bring wrong hadith, I have heard that there was no person ever in the world who existed with the name of Abdullah ibn Sabbah, there are 40 fake names which are not humans but just names which were called as Ashab.  

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@Fahad Sani

Nauzbillah, the is the one of the allegation which is imposed upon the pure house hold of Ali ibn Abu Talib and his daughter Umm-e-Kalthum,

There is a complete book about it "Aqad e Umm e Kulthum", by Abdul Kareem Mushtaq "A convert to Shia Islam from Sunni Islam". Following is the link which you must read. In that book, he gives reference too and mentions that Umm-i-Kulthum which was married to umar was another women that died many years before Karbala while Janab e Umm-i-Kulthum, daughter of Imam Ali a.s was the one who witnessed karbala and demised after that.

http://www.ziyaraat.net/books/AqadUmmeKalsoom.pdf

Similarities between names does not mean that two people with the same name were same, there was also Yazeed, among the companion of Imam Hussain a.s who was martyred in Karbala for him, so do not try to put wrong information without confirming as to if it is right or wrong. You already did posted from Hub-i-Ali site which belongs to Akhbari shias and which do not belong to real shiaism, so please learn our stand first and go through the site of http://www.ziyaraat.net/findbook.asp for books to read and know about answer from our books and then put questions, if they fail to make you understand.

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Answer to Ghulat number 6 which is allegation against Prophet.

According to Sunni sources prophet married to Syeda Khadijah in the age of 25 and she was 40,  

1. For five years they did not have child.

2. After then in just fifteen years, they had four daughters and three of them being married to people who were not Muslims but infidels including Uthman. So, do you believe that Prophet would let her daughter marry to non-Muslims while Quran say that it is unlawful for a Muslim man and women to marry a non-Muslim ?

Are you blaming Prophet that he went against Quran ?

Four daughters got birth in fifteen years and all get adult and 3 of them got married to infidels lolz. Read books from this site which I provided you before. 

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1 hour ago, Sindbad05 said:

After then in just fifteen years, they had four daughters and three of them being married to people who were not Muslims but infidels including Uthman. So, do you believe that Prophet would let her daughter marry to non-Muslims while Quran say that it is unlawful for a Muslim man and women to marry a non-Muslim ?

Anyone who recites the shahada has the rights of a Muslim, hence marriage is legal with a munafiq. Prophets Nuh and Lut عليهما السلام married their wives who also outwardly professed to believe that they were prophets. Shahada in this life also serves a legal code.
There is a difference in saying "did the Prophet صلى الله عليه وآله allow marriage with non-muslims" and with those who 'openly said they were Muslims'.

Edited by Ozzy

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Regarding Adhan, please refer to:

أشهد أن عليّاً وليّ الله في الأذان بين الشرعيّة والابتداع - السيد علي الشهرستاني
الاذان بين الاصالة والتحريف - : السيد علي الشهرستاني

 

Edited by Ozzy

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6 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

@shiaman14 What am I reading here?^

Salaam brother,

Lots of people have responded to brother @Fahad Sani already. I will respond in detail tomorrow. 

The main issue here is of ma'arifat. A reads the Quran and becomes Sistani. B reads the Quran and becomes Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi. We can't blame the Quran nor the narrations. 

Similarly with my brother @Fahad Sani and us. We read the Quran, Sunnah and stories of AhlulBayt and say subhanallah. My brothers of Ahle-Sunnah read the exact same thing and say astagfirullah. Ma'arifat.

 

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The level blindness here in this thread is facepalm-worthy (not from the OP). 

In order to respond to claims about Ghulu, people are using exaggerated narrations to support their belief that some things aren't Ghulu, which is circular logic - the whole point of the OP's post was to raise the contention that the whole body of Hadith and Rijaal works needs to be revisited because not all of it is trustworthy or free from exaggeration. 

 

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20 minutes ago, Zamestaneh said:

The level blindness here in this thread is facepalm-worthy (not from the OP). 

In order to respond to claims about Ghulu, people are using exaggerated narrations to support their belief that some things aren't Ghulu, which is circular logic - the whole point of the OP's post was to raise the contention that the whole body of Hadith and Rijaal works needs to be revisited because not all of it is trustworthy or free from exaggeration. 

 

Starting with Bukhari and Muslim of course...

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44 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Starting with Bukhari and Muslim of course...

Sunnis have the largest body of Rijaal works out of any Islamic group, and indeed Sunnis were the first to start recording Ilmul Rijaal, thus our scholars have been working with Rijaal for over a thousand years, so perhaps it would be wise for Ithna Ashariyyah to get their own house in order before searching for discord in other's, especially when they claim to have the 'truth'.

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36 minutes ago, Zamestaneh said:

Sunnis have the largest body of Rijaal works out of any Islamic group, and indeed Sunnis were the first to start recording Ilmul Rijaal, thus our scholars have been working with Rijaal for over a thousand years, so perhaps it would be wise for Ithna Ashariyyah to get their own house in order before searching for discord in other's, especially when they claim to have the 'truth'.

Sorry when you said " the whole point of the OP's post was to raise the contention that the whole body of Hadith and Rijaal works needs to be revisited because not all of it is trustworthy or free from exaggeration. " I thought you meant all Sunni and shia sources and since Sunnis started this science I thought we would start at the beginning.

So to make sure I understand, OP who is a Sunni and you think Shias should re-evaluate everything in our books. That's like Trump telling all Muslims to revisit the Quran and Islam. Hehehe...

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23 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

:bismillah:

:salam:

 

Testimonies from some modern shia scholars.

 

Some examples from the beliefs of Ghulat which were adopted by modern Shia.

Example #1: Ghulat added the phrase (Ali un wali Allah) into the Adhan(call to prayer) and Iqamah.

Shia Shaikh Saduq wrote in his book:

هَذَا هُوَ الْأَذَانُ الصَّحِيحُ لَا يُزَادُ فِيهِ وَ لَا يُنْقَصُ مِنْهُ وَ الْمُفَوِّضَةُ لَعَنَهُمُ اللَّهُ قَدْ وَضَعُوا أَخْبَاراً وَ زَادُوا فِي الْأَذَانِ مُحَمَّدٌ وَ آلُ مُحَمَّدٍ خَيْرُ الْبَرِيَّةِ مَرَّتَيْنِ وَ فِي بَعْضِ رِوَايَاتِهِمْ بَعْدَ أَشْهَدُ أَنَّ مُحَمَّداً رَسُولُ اللَّهِ أَشْهَدُ أَنَّ عَلِيّاً وَلِيُّ اللَّهِ مَرَّتَيْنِ وَ مِنْهُمْ مَنْ رَوَى بَدَلَ ذَلِكَ أَشْهَدُ أَنَّ عَلِيّاً أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ حَقّاً مَرَّتَيْنِ وَ لَا شَكَّ فِي أَنَّ عَلِيّاً وَلِيُّ اللَّهِ وَ أَنَّهُ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ حَقّاً وَ أَنَّ مُحَمَّداً وَ آلَهُ صَلَوَاتُ اللَّهِ عَلَيْهِمْ خَيْرُ الْبَرِيَّةِ وَ لَكِنْ لَيْسَ ذَلِكَ فِي أَصْلِ الْأَذَانِ وَ إِنَّمَا ذَكَرْتُ ذَلِكَ لِيُعْرَفَ بِهَذِهِ الزِّيَادَةِ الْمُتَّهَمُونَ بِالتَّفْوِيضِ الْمُدَلِّسُونَ أَنْفُسَهُمْ فِي جُمْلَتِنَا

‘This is the authentic (Sahih) Adhan, nothing is to be added or subtracted from it. The Mufawwidah’s (form of Ghulat), may Allah curse them, have fabricated traditions and have added to the Adhan مُحَمَّدٌ وَ آلُ مُحَمَّدٍ خَيْرُ الْبَرِيَّةِ (Muhammad and the family of Muhammad are the best of mankind) twice. In some of their traditions, after saying أَشْهَدُ أَنَّ مُحَمَّداً رَسُولُ اللَّهِ (I bear witness that Muhammad is the Prophet of Allah) (they add) أَشْهَدُ أَنَّ عَلِيّاً وَلِيُّ اللَّهِ (I bear witness that ‘Ali is the Wali of Allah) twice. Among them there are others who narrate this أَشْهَدُ أَنَّ عَلِيّاً أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ (I bear witness that ‘Ali is the commander of the faithfull) twice. There is no doubt that ‘Ali is the Wali of Allah and that he is the true commander of the faithful and that Muhammad and his family, peace be upon them, are the best of creatures. However, that is not of the original Adhan. I have mentioned this so that those who have been accused of concocting tafwid and have insulated themselves in our ranks should be known”. (Man Laa YaHduruh Al-Faqeeh, vol. 1, pg. 290 – 291)

Some points.

1) No mainstream Shi'i scholar regards the testimony of Wilayah in the Adhan to be wajib or to be even PART of the Adhan.

2) Some narrations tell us that it is mustahab to testify the Wilayah after the testimony of Prophethood.

3) So some might say, you take both narrations together, and you end up with the cake: it is mustahab to recite the testimony of Wilayah, but you have to intend it to not be part of the Adhan, if you think it is part of the Adhan then you need to present proof, otherwise you are a mubtad'i.

Furthermore, there was a disagreement on other mustahab dhikrs in the Adhan, even in the times of the classical scholars.

The disagreements on the istihbaab of reciting certain adhkaar and the arguments of allowing the recitation of certain dhikrs without intending obligatory juz'iyya were made in the times of the classical scholars regarding other adhkaar.

For example, Shaykh Al-Saduq ruled it haram to say "Aal Muhammad Khayr Al-Bariyya" and claimed it was an invention of the ghulat. However, Ibn Barraj, another well respected classical jurist ruled it mustahab.

And specifically about the point regarding saying things without intending them to be part of the Adhan, Sayyed Al-Murtadha was asked, on a different dhikr:

Quote

Is it necessary to say in Adhan "Muhammadun wa Aliyyun Khairul-Bashar" after "Hayya Ala Khairil-Amal"?

The Sayyid answered: If he says that on the basis that him saying it is outside the form of the Adhan, then it is permissible, as the testimony of that is correct. If it is not so [i.e. not as outside the Adhan] then there is nothing on him [i.e. he has not sinned]."

All my references come from brother @abduljabbar

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235030253-why-i-will-no-longer-recite-the-3rd-shahadah/?do=findComment&comment=2805444

So it is not as clear cut as you think, and this is my reply to your first point, showing that the classical scholars themselves weren't all of one group, belief etc... they had differences too.

I will show that later when responding to your other points, insha Allah, one by one. Because you claimed a lot in your OP.

Edited by E.L King

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