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In the Name of God بسم الله

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:salam:

Question.

What is the difference between Nabuwah and Imamah (Prophets and Imams)  in terms of characteristics and Qualities?

As there are many narrations in primary shia hadith books which are creating serious doubts. For e.g the following narration says like Messengers and Prophets, Aimah also receive revelations through angel Jibrail, with the only difference being Aimah only hear from Jibrail without seeing him.

Quote

Hasan b. Abbas once asked Imam al-Rida, peace be upon him, in a  letter. “What is the difference between a messenger, a prophet, and an  Imam?” The Imam answered as follows: “The messenger (rasul) is a  person to whom Jibril descends and who both sees him and hears the  words that he speaks. He is thus in communication with divine revelation (wahy), which he sometimes receives in the form of a dream,  as was the case with Ibrahim, peace be upon him.The prophet (nabiyy)  sometimes hears the words spoken by Jibril and at other times sees him  without hearing anything from him. The Imam hears the words that  Jibril utters without seeing him.” (al-Kulayni, al-Kafi, Vol. I,  p.176, hadeeth # 2)

 

Here is one more confusing statement from Allama Majlisi.

Quote

ولا نعرف جهة لعدم اتصافهم بالنبوة إلا رعاية جلالة خاتم الانبياء ، ولا يصل عقولنا إلى فرق بين بين النبوة والامامة ، وما دلت عليه الاخبار فقد عرفته ، والله تعالى يعلم حقائق أحوالهم صلوات الله عليهم أجمعين
To our knowledge there is no reason not to describe the Imams as Prophets except consideration to the status of the Final Prophet. Our intellect too, cannot perceive a distinction between Nabuwwah (prophethood) and Imamah. (Source: Bihar Al-Anwar, Volume 26, p.82)

 

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What's the problem with the Imams (AS) being Divinely Inspired or given ilham? The mother of Musa (AS) was also given ilham as per the Holy Qur'an.

And what's the issue with him speaking to them, when he spoke with Sayyeda Maryam (AS), and she isn't a Prophet?

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44 minutes ago, E.L King said:

What's the problem with the Imams (AS) being Divinely Inspired or given ilham? The mother of Musa (AS) was also given ilham as per the Holy Qur'an.

And what's the issue with him speaking to them, when he spoke with Sayyeda Maryam (AS), and she isn't a Prophet?

This is the same question  for which our Sunni brothers have been satisfied by Quran and you uttered same answer king.

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@Fahad Sani at the khum e Ghadeer a person by side of umar al khattab said that do not try to open the knot which prophet has strengthened. So umar went to Prophet as asked him about that person and upon that prophet said that knot refers to imamate after Prophet and that person was Angel Jibrael. So, Allah will convey messages even to wrongdoers by angel when he wants to exhaust responsibility of Hidayah.

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4 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

This is the same question  for which our Sunni brothers have been satisfied by Quran and you uttered same answer king.

It has been proven that Jibreel* has spoken to Prophets and non-Prophets throughout the ages.

One needs evidence to prove that:

[1] He doesn't talk to Imams

[2] or that he has stopped talking to humans altogether.

Edited by Ozzy

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3 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

It has been proven that Jibreel* has spoken to Prophets and non-Prophets throughout the ages.

One needs evidence to prove that:

[1] He doesn't talk to Imams

[2] or that he has stopped talking to humans altogether.

I'm saying that if angel jibrael talked to Hazrat Maryam a.s, then what else sunni ask for?  Does not this justify that angels talk to imams as well.

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40 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

I'm saying that if angel jibrael talked to Hazrat Maryam a.s, then what else sunni ask for?  Does not this justify that angels talk to imams as well.

Maybe because they have never understood or accepted the concept of Divine Imams in first place, that's why they can't comprehend how can Allah (swt) inspire them in first place. Also they think the highest degrees are with the Prophets, so how can Imams have same attributes or compare to Prophets in first place. Whenever I read Sunni discussion about our Imams (as), I always get conclusion from them that such an Imams are nothing special. Actually they think that some of their high scholars/caliphs are even greater than particular of our Imams. So how such an Imam can be comprehend to Prophet in first place?

Edited by Dhulfikar

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1 hour ago, Dhulfikar said:

Maybe because they have never understood or accepted the concept of Divine Imams in first place, that's why they can't comprehend how can Allah (swt) inspire them in first place. Also they think the highest degrees are with the Prophets, so how can Imams have same attributes or compare to Prophets in first place. Whenever I read Sunni discussion about our Imams (as), I always get conclusion from them that such an Imams are nothing special. Actually they think that some of their high scholars/caliphs are even greater than particular of our Imams. So how such an Imam can be comprehend to Prophet in first place?

True brother, I have just seen that they try to prove that Imams were lower than their caliphs even though they know that they were higher in status. May be because they do not like this thing, I pray that Allah (SWT) helps them averting obstinacy as it is not good for them. 

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18 hours ago, E.L King said:

What's the problem with the Imams (AS) being Divinely Inspired or given ilham? The mother of Musa (AS) was also given ilham as per the Holy Qur'an.

And what's the issue with him speaking to them, when he spoke with Sayyeda Maryam (AS), and she isn't a Prophet?

In the previous nations non prophets also used to receive revelations via angels directly but after the end of prophet hood this door of revelations is also closed for this last ummah. Except mu'bashi'raat i.e true dreams. The only way for this ummah to get inspiration is via true dreams. Which is one of 46th part of prophet hood. Difference and gap is too much. While the narrations in OP from shia books say Imams also get revelations from Angel Jibrail directly, with the only difference being they did not see him.

There are hundreds of authentic ahadith from Prophet s.a.w.w on this subject in ahlul sunnah books. Some of them are mentioned below. I am sure, similar narrations will also be in ahle tashayyu books. But at this point of time its very difficult for me to find out.

 Narrated Anas bin Malik:

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "A good dream (that comes true) of a  righteous man is one of forty-six parts of prophetism." Sahih al-Bukhari 6983


Abu Hurrairah narrated that the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w) said:
"In the end of time, the dreams of a believer will hardly ever fail to  come true, and the most truthful of them in dreams will be the truest  in speech among them. And dreams are three types: The good dreams  wihich is glad tidings from Allah, dreams about something that has  happened to the man himself, and dreams in which the Shaitan frightens  someone. So when one of you sees what he dislikes, then he should get  up and perform Salat." Abu Hurairah said: "I like fetters and  dislikes, the iron collar. And fetters refers to being firm in the  religion." He said: "The Prophet (s. a. w) said: 'Dreams are a portion  among the forty_six portions of Prophethood." Trimidhi Book 34, Hadith  2460


Ibn ‘Abbas said:
The Prophet(ﷺ) lifted the curtain (and saw that) the people were  standing in rows(of prayers) behind Abu Bakr. He said: O people, there remained nothing that gives good tidings from prophethood except a  true dream which a Muslim has himself or which another Muslim has for  him. I have been prohibited to recite the Qur’an while bowing or  prostration. As regards owing, exalt the Lord in it, and as to  prostration, make supplication with exertion in it, that is worthy of  being accepted. Sunan Abi Dawud 876

Edited by Fahad Sani

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19 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Question.

What is the difference between Nabuwah and Imamah (Prophets and Imams)  in terms of characteristics and Qualities?

The main question is still unanswered. What are the main differences between the two?

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4 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

In the previous nations non prophets also used to receive revelations via angels directly but after the end of prophet hood this door of revelations is also closed for this last ummah. Except mu'bashi'raat i.e true dreams. The only way for this ummah to get inspiration is via true dreams. Which is one of 46th part of prophet hood. Difference and gap is too much. While the narrations in OP from shia books say Imams also get revelations from Angel Jibrail directly, with the only difference being they did not see him.

There are hundreds of authentic ahadith from Prophet s.a.w.w on this subject in ahlul sunnah books. Some of them are mentioned below. I am sure, similar narrations will also be in ahle tashayyu books. But at this point of time its very difficult for me to find out.

 Narrated Anas bin Malik:

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "A good dream (that comes true) of a  righteous man is one of forty-six parts of prophetism." Sahih al-Bukhari 6983


Abu Hurrairah narrated that the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w) said:
"In the end of time, the dreams of a believer will hardly ever fail to  come true, and the most truthful of them in dreams will be the truest  in speech among them. And dreams are three types: The good dreams  wihich is glad tidings from Allah, dreams about something that has  happened to the man himself, and dreams in which the Shaitan frightens  someone. So when one of you sees what he dislikes, then he should get  up and perform Salat." Abu Hurairah said: "I like fetters and  dislikes, the iron collar. And fetters refers to being firm in the  religion." He said: "The Prophet (s. a. w) said: 'Dreams are a portion  among the forty_six portions of Prophethood." Trimidhi Book 34, Hadith  2460


Ibn ‘Abbas said:
The Prophet(ﷺ) lifted the curtain (and saw that) the people were  standing in rows(of prayers) behind Abu Bakr. He said: O people, there remained nothing that gives good tidings from prophethood except a  true dream which a Muslim has himself or which another Muslim has for  him. I have been prohibited to recite the Qur’an while bowing or  prostration. As regards owing, exalt the Lord in it, and as to  prostration, make supplication with exertion in it, that is worthy of  being accepted. Sunan Abi Dawud 876

So basically, to prove your points that ilham stopped after the Prophet died, you used Sunni hadiths - against me, a Shi'i Muslim?

How does that make any sense?

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17 hours ago, E.L King said:

So basically, to prove your points that ilham stopped after the Prophet died, you used Sunni hadiths - against me, a Shi'i Muslim?

How does that make any sense?

As I said in my previous post that..

Quote

I am sure, similar narrations will also be in ahle tashayyu books. But at this point of time its very difficult for me to find out.

Here are some from shia books.

رسولُ اللهِ (صَلَّيَ اللهُ عَلَيهِ وَ آلِهِ): لم يَبقَ مِنَ النبوَّةِ إلّا المُبَشِّراتُ، قالوا: وما المُبَشِّراتُ؟ قال: الرؤيا الصالِحَةُ.

The Prophet (SAWA) said, 'No remnants of prophecy remain today [in people's lives] except glad tidings.’ When asked what glad tidings were, he replied, 'True dreams'.

[Bihar al-Anwar, v. 61, p. 177, no. 39]

Very explicit statement. This is applicable on all non prophets including ahlebait a.s.

 

الإمامُ الرِّضا (عَلَيهِ الّسَلامُ): إنّ رسولَ اللّه‏ِ (صَلَّيَ اللهُ عَلَيهِ وَ آلِهِ) كانَ إذا أصبَحَ قالَ لأصحابِهِ: هل مِن مُبَشِّراتٍ؟ يَعنِي بهِ الرُّؤيا.    

Imam al-Rida (as) said, 'When the Prophet (SAWA) used to wake up in the morning, he used to first ask his companions, 'Are there any good news?' meaning any good dreams.’[al-Kafi, v. 8, p. 90, no. 58]   

Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s was also amongst the companions.

 

ـ رسولُ اللهِ‏ِ (صَلَّيَ اللهُ عَلَيهِ وَ آلِهِ) ـ في قولِهِ تعالى: «لَهُمُ الْبُشْرَى فِى الْحَيَوةِ الدُّنْيَا وَ فِى الاْءَخِرَةِ لاَ تَبْدِيلَ لِكَلِمَـتِ اللَّهِ ذَ لِكَ هُوَ الْفَوْزُ الْعَظِيمُ»ـ: هي الرُّؤيا الحَسَنَةُ يَرَى المُؤمنُ فَيُبشَّرُ بها في دُنياهُ.    

1– The Prophet s.a.w.w, with regard to Allah's verse in the Qur'an "for them are glad tidings" [Qur'an 10:64], said, 'This is in reference to the good dream which a believer has and which gives him good news in this world.’[al-Kafi, v. 8, p. 90, no. 60]   

 

 So shia narrations also testify the same which I said earlier.

21 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

In the previous nations non prophets also used to receive revelations via angels directly but after the end of prophet hood this door of revelations is also closed for this last ummah. Except mu'bashi'raat i.e true dreams. The only way for this ummah to get inspiration is via true dreams. Which is one of 46th part of prophet hood. Difference and gap is too much. While the narrations in OP from shia books say Imams also get revelations from Angel Jibrail directly, with the only difference being they did not see him.

Edited by Fahad Sani

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26 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

As I said in my previous post that..

Here are some from shia books.

رسولُ اللهِ (صَلَّيَ اللهُ عَلَيهِ وَ آلِهِ): لم يَبقَ مِنَ النبوَّةِ إلّا المُبَشِّراتُ، قالوا: وما المُبَشِّراتُ؟ قال: الرؤيا الصالِحَةُ.

The Prophet (SAWA) said, 'No remnants of prophecy remain today [in people's lives] except glad tidings.’ When asked what glad tidings were, he replied, 'True dreams'.

[Bihar al-Anwar, v. 61, p. 177, no. 39]

Very explicit statement. This is applicable on all non prophets including ahlebait a.s.

 

الإمامُ الرِّضا (عَلَيهِ الّسَلامُ): إنّ رسولَ اللّه‏ِ (صَلَّيَ اللهُ عَلَيهِ وَ آلِهِ) كانَ إذا أصبَحَ قالَ لأصحابِهِ: هل مِن مُبَشِّراتٍ؟ يَعنِي بهِ الرُّؤيا.    

Imam al-Rida (as) said, 'When the Prophet (SAWA) used to wake up in the morning, he used to first ask his companions, 'Are there any good news?' meaning any good dreams.’[al-Kafi, v. 8, p. 90, no. 58]   

Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s was also amongst the companions.

Show me the chain of the first hadith of Al-Bihar. I doubt it is sahih. I actually suspect it is the same Sunni hadith with a Sunni chain.

While the ones in Al-Kafi in your first post are sahih by chain.

As for the second Hadith it does not negate anything. 

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19 hours ago, shiaman14 said:
21 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

The main question is still unanswered. What are the main differences between the two?

Rasool brings law.

Imam protects, explains, interprets law after the Prophet. 

It means Rasool's job was to only bring law. But if you observe ahlul sunnah hadith books, you will find that Prophet s.a.w.w also explained and interpreted the law. Obey Allahswt i.e Quran and obey Messenger i.e His s.a.w.w way of life which is available to us through his s.a.w.w ahadith.

Your answer is more of a definition. Actual question is still unanswered.

Question was " What is the difference between Nabuwah and Imamah (Prophets and Imams)  in terms of characteristics and Qualities? "

Edited by Fahad Sani

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14 hours ago, E.L King said:

Show me the chain of the first hadith of Al-Bihar. I doubt it is sahih. I actually suspect it is the same Sunni hadith with a Sunni chain.

While the ones in Al-Kafi in your first post are sahih by chain.

As for the second Hadith it does not negate anything. 

 

In Bihar vol 54, there are many such narrations. Explore the book to find out the same from Ahlebait a.s. Ibn Abbas r.a is also a member of ahlebait.

بحار الانوار جلد 54 صفحه 192

[192]
الآخرة " فإنها بشارة المؤمن عند الموت أن الله قد غفر لك ولمن يحملك إلى قبرك ( 1 )
63 - وعن ابن عباس " لهم البشرى في الحيوة الدنيا " قال : هي الرؤيا الحسنة
يراها المسلم لنفسه أو لبعض إخوانه . ( 2 )
64 - وعن ابن عباس ، عن النبي صلى الله عليه وآله : قال : ألا إنه لم يبق من مبشرات
النبوة إلا الرؤيا الصالحة يراها المسلم أو ترى له ( 3 ) .
65 - وعن أبي الطفيل عنه صلى الله عليه وآله قال : لا نبوة بعدي إلا المبشرات . قيل
يا رسول الله ، وما المبشرات ؟ قال : الرؤيا الصالحة
. ( 4 )
66 - وعن أبي قتادة قال : قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله : الرؤيا الصالحة بشرى من الله
وهي جزء من أجزاء النبوة ( 5 ) .
67 - وعن أبي هريرة قال : قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله : إذا اقترب الزمان لم تكد رؤيا
المؤمن تكذب ، وأصدقهم رؤيا أصدقهم حديثا ، ورؤيا المسلم جزء من ستة وأربعين
جزء من النبوة . والرؤيا ثلاث : فالرؤيا الصالحة بشرى من الله ، والرؤيا من تحزين
الشيطان ، والرؤيا مما يحدث الرجل نفسه . وإذا رأى أحدكم ما يكره فليقم وليتفل
ولا يحدث به الناس . واحب القيد في النوم ، وأكره الغل ، القيد ثبات في الدين .
فإن رأى أحدكم رؤيا تعجبه فليقصها إن شاء ، وإن رأى شيئا يكرهه فلا يقصه على
أحد وليقم يصلي ( 6 ) .
68 - وعن عباد بن الصامت أن النبي صلى الله عليه وآله قال : رؤيا المؤمن جزء من ستة .
وأربعين جزء من النبوة ( 7 ) . وعن أنس مثله .
69 - وعن أبي سعيد الخدري عنه صلى الله عليه وآله قال : إذا رأى أحدكم الرؤيا يحبها
فإنما من الله فليحمد الله عليها وليحدث بها ، وإذا رأى غيره مما يكره فإنما هي
من الشيطان فليستعذ بالله من شرها ولا يذكرها لاحد فإنها لا تضره ( 8 ) .
70 - وعن أبي سعيد أيضا عنه صلى الله عليه وآله قال : الرؤيا الصالحة جزء من سبعين جزء
من النبوة ( 9 ) .
* ( هامش ) * ( 1 - 9 ) الدر المنثور : ج 3 ، ص 312 .

 

Edited by Fahad Sani

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