Is the United States a Christian nation?

[Kamaaluddeen al-Ismail]

I've had few discussions with Christians and they say that U.S is a Christian nation. So what do Christians on SC say about this? 

[notme]

No.

"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech or the press...."

So by law it can't be any kind of theocracy. 

The majority of the population are at least nominally Christian. 

 

Sorry, I didn't follow instructions: I'm not Christian. If it matters, I used to be.

[Ron_Burgundy]

The U.S. Constitution is a secular document. It begins, "We the people," and contains no mention of "God" or "Christianity." It's only references to religion are exclusionary, such as, "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust" (Art. VI), and "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" (First Amendment). The presidential oath of office, the only oath detailed in the Constitution, does not contain the phrase "so help me God" or any requirement to swear on a bible. If we are a Christian nation, why doesn't our Constitution say so? In 1797 America made a treaty with Tripoli, declaring that "the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

[j.angel]

It feels that way because schools take Christian holidays off (Easter, Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc.) and not a single day for Ramadan or Haunikkah for the Jews. 

[Hidaren]

55 minutes ago, Kamaaluddeen al-Ismail said:

I've had few discussions with Christians and they say that U.S is a Christian nation. So what do Christians on SC say about this? 

 

U.S is a majorly a Christian nation, but the government is secular.

[Ron_Burgundy]

7 minutes ago, j.angel said:

It feels that way because schools take Christian holidays off (Easter, Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc.) and not a single day for Ramadan or Haunikkah for the Jews. 

Let's be honest to ourselves. Muslims can't even decide what day is going to be Eid. We always fight on moon. And btw last year there was a public holiday on Eid in NY. 

[notme]

32 minutes ago, j.angel said:

It feels that way because schools take Christian holidays off (Easter, Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc.) and not a single day for Ramadan or Haunikkah for the Jews. 

Easter is on a Sunday, which normally isn't a school day, and Thanksgiving is a national not Christian holiday. 

[Akbar673]

1 hour ago, Kamaaluddeen al-Ismail said:

I've had few discussions with Christians and they say that U.S is a Christian nation. So what do Christians on SC say about this? 

Yes, it's a Christian country in the sense that the vast majority of its population is Christian.

Also, the Govt. can be as secular as it wants but at its core it is a deeply Christian country. 

[notme]

Just now, Akbar673 said:

Also, the Govt. can be as secular as it wants but at its core it is a deeply Christian country. 

In what way? 

[Akbar673]

Just now, notme said:

In what way? 

The people. The vast majority of the US follows some denomination of Christianity.

The Govt. can be as secular as it wants but the populace is not. 

Now, the level of religiousness varies from person to person but the vast majority of the country follows Christianity and as such is defined as a Christian country in my opinion.

[andres]

1 hour ago, Kamaaluddeen al-Ismail said:

I've had few discussions with Christians and they say that U.S is a Christian nation. So what do Christians on SC say about this? 

I regard USA as a Christian nation, with freedom of religion and secular laws.

[AbuHope]

Strictly speaking, unbeknownst to the American people, the United States is officially a business model, a company.
 

Quote

 

''It is clear that the United States is a corporation'' (534 Federal Supplement 724)

"The United States is located in the District of Columbia." – (California Commercial Code 9307 h)
(It is a corporation with multiple office buildings)

“The United States Government is a foreign corporation with respect to a state.” Volume 20: Corpus Juris Secundum, (P 1785: NY re: Merriam 36 N.E. 505 1441 S.Ct. 1973, 41 L. Ed. 287)

And we have this decision – one of many – that makes US jurisdiction clear:

“The laws of Congress in respect to those matters do not extend into the territorial limits of the states, but have force only in the District of Columbia , and other places that are within the exclusive jurisdiction of the national government.” Catha v United States , 152 US , at 215
U.S. Code, Title 28 – JUDICIARY AND JUDICIAL PROCEDURE, (Chapter 176) Section 3002 (15) (a, b, & c); ~

(15) ” United States ” means – (A) a Federal corporation; (B) an agency, department, commission, board, or other entity of the United States; (C) an instrumentality of the United States

"The IRS is not a U.S. Government Agency. It is an Agency of the IMF." (Diversified Metal Products v. IRS et al. CV-93-405E-EJE U.S.D.C.D.I., Public Law 94-564, Senate Report 94-1148 pg. 5967, Reorganization Plan No. 26, Public Law 102-391.)

The IMF is an Agency of the UN. (Blacks Law Dictionary 6th Ed. Pg. 816)

The U.S. has not had a Treasury since 1921. (41 Stat. Ch.214 pg. 654)

The U.S. Treasury is now the IMF. (Presidential Documents Volume 29-No.4 pg. 113, 22 U.S.C. 285-288)

The FCC, CIA, FBI, NASA and all of the other alphabet gangs were never part of the United States government, even though the "US Government" held shares of stock in the various Agencies. (U.S. V. Strang, 254 US 491, Lewis v. US, 680 F.2d, 1239)

*The United States Government is a foreign corporation with respect to a state. (NY re: Merriam 36 N.E. 505; 1441 S.Ct. 1973; 41 L.Ed. 287)

*Governments are corporations.
(Penhallow v. Doane, 3 Dall 55 Dred Scott v. Danford, 10 How 393)

*Every corporation formed for governmental purposes is a municipal corporation. (Woodward v. Livermore Falls Water Dist., 116 Me 496)

*Municipal corporations constitute a part of the civil government of the state. (New Orleans Gas Co. v. Louisiana Light Co., 115 U.S. 650, 672 (1885))

Bond vs. UNITED STATES, 529 US 334 – 2000,

The Supreme Court held that the American People are in fact Sovereign and not the States or the Government. The court went on to define that local, state and federal law enforcement officers were committing unlawful actions against the Sovereign People by the enforcement of the laws and are personally liable for their actions.
(Bond v. United States, 529 US 334 – 2000 – Supreme Court – Cited by 761 litigants in other cases.
Bond v. US, 131 S. Ct. 2355 – 2011 – Supreme Court – Cited by 306 “ “Bond v. US, 1 F. 3d 631 – 1993 – Court of Appeals, 7th)

 

 

Edited January 26, 2017 by P. Ease

[Netzari]

Many Christians also try to argue that America was founded on "Christian principles". This is also false. It was founded on the ideas of the Enlightenment and to a lesser extent, Freemasonry.

[andres]

56 minutes ago, Netzari said:

Many Christians also try to argue that America was founded on "Christian principles". This is also false. It was founded on the ideas of the Enlightenment and to a lesser extent, Freemasonry.

Judaism developed from old Kanaanean religion, Christianity and Islam from Judaism,  Enlightment and Freemasonry from Christianity. Democracy and modern civilisation on Enlightment. US constitution is no longer up to date. High court judges elected for lifetime!

[Son of Placid]

I think "Christian" has been a label too long.

"In God We Trust" used to mean something.

NA should be known more as "everything and nothing".

You can call North America "Christian" if you like but the vast majority barely knows what the Bible says. Every time Trump says "The bible says" he says something that the bible does not say and sends scholars on a spin to find where he may have even gotten the phrase, but to the people it's a new revelation.

It should only happen in the movies.

Trump should make a movie, it would be a great movie. Trust me, it would be the best movie ever. 

[aflyer]

I would say no and I have lived here all my life. Like others have said the government is secular, I would add its based on the idea of seperation of church and state. Also it should be noted Christianity and the New Testament teachings of the Bible have nothing to say about government other that obey the law of the land which is in contrast to Islam and Judaism which ordain a law of the land. The country was founded on Christian values by many who were Christian but much has changed. You don't have to look very far too see the culture is definitely post Christian at the moment. Look at the movies, magazines, TV shows, books, news, officials who the people elect into public office etc as it is all a reflection of the country and should be obvious it is nowhere near Christian. Part of the people still identify as Christian today and while it is not my place to judge I think very few annually are. Saying you are a Christian does not make you a follower of Christ.

[aflyer]

On 1/26/2017 at 0:24 PM, andres said:

Judaism developed from old Kanaanean religion, Christianity and Islam from Judaism,  Enlightment and Freemasonry from Christianity. Democracy and modern civilisation on Enlightment. US constitution is no longer up to date. High court judges elected for lifetime!

That may be the progressive order of events but the enlightenment is the antithesis of Christianity.

[andres]

2 hours ago, aflyer said:

That may be the progressive order of events but the enlightenment is the antithesis of Christianity.

Sorry, do not at all understand how you reach that conclusion. Are you not exaggerating?  Please explain.

[aflyer]

15 hours ago, andres said:

Sorry, do not at all understand how you reach that conclusion. Are you not exaggerating?  Please explain.

My understanding on the enlightenment is that it was a shift in thinking from truth being obtained from religion (scriptures) to that which is based on reason and the scientific method. Said another way what came out of the enlightenment was a world view and thought system such that: all there is to the universe is natural causes and only natural causes and that there are no spiritual forces. Do you not agree?

Christianity is based on the idea that God created everything - thus there are underlying spiritual causes that superintend natural causes.

For this reason I believe the enlightenment movement and what came out of it is in direct opposition to Christianity (and other religions too). Do you agree?

[Son of Placid]

I guess enlightenment is one way to put it. This is the age of deception. There are no sins, anything short of encouragement is oppression. Democratically, if enough people want it, they get it. They don't have to be a majority. 

Everything is going digital which means everything can be altered. Terms like love and tolerance only apply to the sinners. Judgement and intolerance is for anyone not showing the sinners love and tolerance. Animal comfort life is a priority, while human life depreciates, and entitlement is still the word of the day.  

If you have any morals you can offend someone almost anywhere by sticking to them. A morally based opinion is the start of an argument. It will only entice anger and hatred in those who love and tolerate. 

Saw a post this morning titled, Al Qaeda has a new strategy of winning the war by sitting back and watching America destroy itself.

[andres]

1 hour ago, aflyer said:

My understanding on the enlightenment is that it was a shift in thinking from truth being obtained from religion (scriptures) to that which is based on reason and the scientific method. Said another way what came out of the enlightenment was a world view and thought system such that: all there is to the universe is natural causes and only natural causes and that there are no spiritual forces. Do you not agree?

Christianity is based on the idea that God created everything - thus there are underlying spiritual causes that superintend natural causes.

For this reason I believe the enlightenment movement and what came out of it is in direct opposition to Christianity (and other religions too). Do you agree?

Not entirely. Science is not in direct opposition to Christianity, Islam and Judaism. Science does not say there is no God. The Biblical writers probably all believed the earth was created in 6 days. Most of us know better today, but what can we expect from humans living that long ago? This is not essential when in comes to religion.

[aflyer]

44 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

 

I guess enlightenment is one way to put it.

 

Yup its ironic.

..and like you said they hijacked the language. Especially the word love.

46 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

Saw a post this morning titled, Al Qaeda has a new strategy of winning the war by sitting back and watching America destroy itself.

I would not doubt it.

[aflyer]

2 minutes ago, andres said:

Not entirely. Science is not in direct opposition to Christianity, Islam and Judaism. Science does not say there is no God. The Biblical writers probably all believed the earth was created in 6 days. Most of us know better today, but what can we expect from humans living that long ago? This is not essential when in comes to religion.

Science is science, it is just a methodology to produce knowledge. I agree science says nothing about God, but the worldview that was born with the enlightenment would say God does not exist. I did not mean to infer that science is against any religion because I don't think it is. I think science and the enlightenment are two different things. The later presumes that science is true. I have no problem with science or using it to produce knowledge but there is a fundamental difference between what works and what is true. Science give us results that work but don't tell me its true.

Religion (Christianity, Islam, Judaism) claim what is true via the reveled word of God. What came out of the enlightenment is a world view which claims to know what is true by using the scientific method via observation of the physical world. I would suggest these two things are fundamentally different and are in opposition.

[andres]

1 hour ago, aflyer said:

Science is science, it is just a methodology to produce knowledge. I agree science says nothing about God, but the worldview that was born with the enlightenment would say God does not exist. I did not mean to infer that science is against any religion because I don't think it is. I think science and the enlightenment are two different things. The later presumes that science is true. I have no problem with science or using it to produce knowledge but there is a fundamental difference between what works and what is true. Science give us results that work but don't tell me its true.

Religion (Christianity, Islam, Judaism) claim what is true via the reveled word of God. What came out of the enlightenment is a world view which claims to know what is true by using the scientific method via observation of the physical world. I would suggest these two things are fundamentally different and are in opposition.

I do not agree that the Bible claims to be  the perfect word of God. Maybe the Quran does. But the Muslim world have not really exoerienced an enlightment like the Christian world has. 

 

[Haydar Husayn]

America may once have been a Christian nation, but it clearly isn't one now.

[andres]

54 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

America may once have been a Christian nation, but it clearly isn't one now.

It depends how you define a Christian nation. I doubt Trump is a Christian but one person cannot change the definition.

[baqar]

3 hours ago, andres said:

But the Muslim world have not really experienced an enlightenment like the Christian world has. 

Enlightenment in Islamic history corresponds to the very short period of Imam Ali's caliphate.

That is - if you were to look at enlightenment in a godly, not worldly sense.

Read the opinions of non-Muslims on the subject.

[ChristianVisitor]

No, the US is not a Christian nation. In fact, most "Christians" in the US are not real Christians in heart, mind, and soul. Most of them are just church-goers going through the motions but have no real love for God, the truth, and righteousness.

[aflyer]

7 hours ago, andres said:

I do not agree that the Bible claims to be  the perfect word of God. Maybe the Quran does.

I talk to a lot of people about the Bible and in all the Christian and religious circles I have been in I have yet to come across someone with your point of view until now. The Christian and even atheists in the west I think would all say the Bible claims to be the revealed perfect word of God see 2 Timothy 3:16. I'm not arguing that it is the word of God (this is not the place for it) but it is a very well accepted that is what it stands for whether that be a true claim or not.

 

7 hours ago, andres said:

But the Muslim world have not really exoerienced an enlightment like the Christian world has. 

I think what you mean to say is But the Muslim world have not really experienced an enlightenment like the Christian western world has. I know a lot of people associate the west with Christianity and yes it used to be a very Christian culture at one time but the west is very much post Christian now. I would suggest the culture changed from Christian to atheist once it embraced what followed from the enlightenment.

[Haydar Husayn]

4 hours ago, andres said:

It depends how you define a Christian nation. I doubt Trump is a Christian but one person cannot change the definition.

My comment had nothing to do with Trump. America hasn't been a Christian nation for a long time.

[andres]

3 hours ago, Haydar Husayn said:

My comment had nothing to do with Trump. America hasn't been a Christian nation for a long time.

OK. Of course a matter of definition. USA's constitution is not Christian like Iran's is Islamic or Israel's is Jewish. But the great majority americans call themselves Christian and are members of a Christian Churches.

[andres]

3 hours ago, aflyer said:

I talk to a lot of people about the Bible and in all the Christian and religious circles I have been in I have yet to come across someone with your point of view until now. The Christian and even atheists in the west I think would all say the Bible claims to be the revealed perfect word of God see 2 Timothy 3:16. I'm not arguing that it is the word of God (this is not the place for it) but it is a very well accepted that is what it stands for whether that be a true claim or not.

I am not convinced that Timothy believed that his letter was the perfect word of God. (according translation he uses the word "inspired"). The New Testament was not yet compiled, but very likely he believed the Old Testament was the perfect word of God and that God created the world in 6 days , 4.000 years before he was born. Lots of Christians like me, do not believe this is so. Some fundamental Christians may not regard us as Christians. 

[andres]

3 hours ago, aflyer said:

I think what you mean to say is But the Muslim world have not really experienced an enlightenment like the Christian western world has. I know a lot of people associate the west with Christianity and yes it used to be a very Christian culture at one time but the west is very much post Christian now. I would suggest the culture changed from Christian to atheist once it embraced what followed from the enlightenment.

Atheists believe there is no God. Lots of enlightened scientist and others do. 

Atheists are to be found all over the world. Islamic republic of Iran is no exception. 

Enlightenment in the Muslim world. Is there such concept?

[baqar]

6 minutes ago, andres said:

Enlightenment in the Muslim world. Is there such concept?

Did you read my post above?

[Christianlady]

On 1/26/2017 at 9:07 AM, Kamaaluddeen al-Ismail said:

I've had few discussions with Christians and they say that U.S is a Christian nation. So what do Christians on SC say about this? 

Salam,

I disagree for many reasons.

1. Jesus Christ never commanded his followers to make a nation "Christian" but rather to follow/obey Him. Many of Jesus' commands are difficult to follow when getting caught up into nationalism. For example, Jesus clearly commanded his followers to love enemies (Matthew 5:43-48; Luke 6:27-37) which the USA and many other nations do not obey.

2. There is no such thing as a true Christian nation, though there have been nations that have been ruled by imperfect leaders who identify as Christian. Just because someone identifies as a Christian, that does not mean that he/she obeys Jesus Christ. Some of the worst genocides and cruelties/evils in the world have been committed by leaders who identify as Christian (Hitler is one).

The Crusades, the Inquisition, the killing of Native Americans, slavery, and so forth have been led and committed by Christian rulers. That shows that there is no such thing as a nation that truly obeys Jesus Christ.

3. Jesus Christ commands his followers to "Do to others as you would have them do to you." - Luke 6:31 (NIV) Horribly, the history of the USA is filled with Americans doing to others what they would not want done to them. Most Americans have no desire to be stolen from, lied to, killed, tortured, and enslaved. Yet, horribly, this is what some Americans who identified/identify as Christians do to other people. in disobedience (whether ignorantly or on purpose) to Jesus Christ.

4. Christians are a part of the global Kingdom of Heaven. In my opinion, it is blasphemy to put a nation before God. God first, nation is after God. That means that if a nation commands laws that go contrary to God, a true Christian will obey God no matter what the nations' aws say, even if that means death or expulsion. As Jesus' disciples said, "Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than human beings!" - Acts 5:29 (N(V)

5. When Jesus Christ returns, that's when there will a true "Christian" nation.

Interestingly, Jesus Christ did not attempt to overthrow the Romans who were occupying his people's nation (Israel/Judea), nor did he try to overthrow Israel's leaders. Instead, he very clearly promised that he would return!!!

Back to the USA, many Christians from Europe founded the USA. However, they did not obey Jesus Christ's commands to love neighbors as oneself and to do to others as they would have done to them. For this reason alone, I think it is wrong to label the USA as a "Christian" nation.

Peace and God bless you

 

Edited January 30, 2017 by Christianlady