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You do know how bias this video is right? They show you certain shias doing wrongful acts and than accuse all of the shias being like that. They show one person at the mosque praying alone as if no shia ever attends the mosque. I wouldn't be surprised if you upvoted the video on Youtube.

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I know this brother. Its not an accusation to all shias. And showing just only one man in mosque is also not good way of comparing. But overall if you compare you will see more people at shrines regularly than at mosques. Main problem is not this. problem is why people prefer more to go to shrines.

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33 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

I know this brother. Its not an accusation to all shias. And showing just only one man in mosque is also not good way of comparing. But overall if you compare you will see more people at shrines regularly than at mosques. Main problem is not this. problem is why people prefer more to go to shrines.

Because they're sacred places. They're the graves of people that gave up their lives to keep our religion alive.

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Well,it's not everyday that Shias go on ziyarah. Do you realize that going on ziyarah is roughly 800-2000$ per package in North America? Including the ticket and passport, three thousand dollars at least, I mean that's a lot of money.

I don't know about you but I think most Shias can be found at a mosque or Imambargah. You say it isn't an accusation but it is anyway, the undertones are there; Besides the ziyarah has many spiritual benefits, yes the masjid has many benefits but being near the Ahlulbayt (as) is on a whole another level for Shias in terms of spirituality. 

Now, since you live in Pakistan, I guess I could understand why you would ask. I think the reason most Shias in Pakistan go on ziyarah more than the masjid is because of terrorist groups like Sipah e Sahaba bomb and attack the Shia masjids.

So naturally the act of going on ziyarah becomes a safe haven for people to express their spirituality and love of the Ahlulbayt (as). Hence you see Pakistani Shias going to ziyarah more than they go to the masjid. 

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@Fahad Sani

First of all, you relate mosque with shrine of Imam Hussain a.s, Has not Shrine of Imam Hussain a.s for prayer and does not it play the role of Mosque as well.

Now you may argue that it is not mosque, but I will say that it is mosque like Masjid-e-Nabawi. Secondly, the problem of praying into mosque is not with the Shias, but this problem is also with our sunni brothers. In my neighborhood, there are two mosques, one belonging to Salafis and another to Deobandis. Both of these sects never go to the mosques by saying Deobandi mosque or Wahabi mosque, so what is the probability of them that they will accept me if I go there and pray salah by open hands.

finally, look at the language of the video, it says Shia Rabbi not Cleric, see the difference between thoughts, if their words are so harsh what will be in their hearts. 

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Sigh. Salaat is wajib. Congregational salaat is not, apart from Friday's. Mosques have been reduced to a place of Salaat, they used to be actual gathering centers, hence why they'd be full. We take our Salaat extremely serious. Plus with all the anti shia rhetoric and actions, I'm all for praying at home.

Going to someone's tomb is a wajiba of love ya akhi it's not a fard wajiba of deen. If someone can't understand love then please don't find fault with someone who does, this is called jealousy. It isn't either part of the furud to visit masjid nabawi after haj or umra, but most people do because of love for our Prophet (sawas). You wouldn't find any mu'min on this earth who doesn't have a heartfelt desire to be able to visit all prophets (as), all aimmah (as), all righteous sahaba (ra) and all awliya'Allah (ra). This what the heart of a lover does. It yearns for it's beloved.

Edited by P. Ease

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Of course it is a great calamity to see that many people do not frequent Mosques - but one reason for why it seems that Sunnis care about the Mosque and Salat Al-Jama'ah more than the Shi'a do is because:

1) according to many Sunni Fuqaha, going to the Mosque and praying Jama'ah is wajib if the Mosque is near enough. According to most Shi'a scholars as far as I have seen, if not all, - it isn't wajib. It maybe be extremely makruh to not go to the Mosque though if you neighbour it, though.

2) You cannot pray behind a majhool person in Shi'a Islam. You must have have proof that the Imam is adil. I'm not sure this ruling is available in Sunnism.

Edited by E.L King

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@Hassan Y

And thats why I made this title why shrines are over crowded. My focus is on this part of video. Only one man in mosque is very wrong so I didnt highlighted this in title. But honestly speaking regardless of this discrepancy in the video, shrines are overly crowded than mosques. I am asking the major reason behind this. Because intention of every person going there might not be the same.

 

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14 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Well,it's not everyday that Shias go on ziyarah. Do you realize that going on ziyarah is roughly 800-2000$ per package in North America? Including the ticket and passport, three thousand dollars at least, I mean that's a lot of money.

I don't know about you but I think most Shias can be found at a mosque or Imambargah. You say it isn't an accusation but it is anyway, the undertones are there; Besides the ziyarah has many spiritual benefits, yes the masjid has many benefits but being near the Ahlulbayt (as) is on a whole another level for Shias in terms of spirituality. 

Now, since you live in Pakistan, I guess I could understand why you would ask. I think the reason most Shias in Pakistan go on ziyarah more than the masjid is because of terrorist groups like Sipah e Sahaba bomb and attack the Shia masjids.

So naturally the act of going on ziyarah becomes a safe haven for people to express their spirituality and love of the Ahlulbayt (as). Hence you see Pakistani Shias going to ziyarah more than they go to the masjid. 

Of course, I am talking about people who are living there esp in Iran, Iraq, India, Pakistan. These regions have more shrines than any other place. And its not about only shias, almost all sufi sunnis also prefer shrines more often. Moreover terrorist attack is not the excuse. Now a days its very rare in Pakistan plus even in the past it was limited to few cities only. And I am not talking about my country. Same is the case with other regions as well.

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You should post a video on how sunnis join daesh and all other terror organizations that bring shame of Islam, instead of actually studying their religion and being civilized and not call everyone who does not consider sahaba as infallible, kafir rafida. 

You post this anti majoos ridiculous videos here and you think we will respect you?

I swear, if you ever post a single anti majoos video ever again, I will follow you to every single thread you ever post again and fight you until you energy is exhausted. Shame on you for spreading this hateful nasibi filth only created to cause fitna by the enemies of Islam, you have absolute zero basirah which is truly a sign of lack of reflection. But no, you keep posting fitna nasibi videos like this created by zionists.

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@Irfan1214

No. I am comparing shrine part with mosque. And thats also the subject of video, I believe.

And that problem is not everywhere in Pakistan. There are many people who are open minded and encourage unity. Except the stubborn and ignorant ones. I also pray in both deoband and bravli mosques and do rafa yadain (plus other acts which are contrary to hanafi school of thought) both in farz and nafl prayer. But no one has ever stopped or taunted me. I have practiced this in more than one city. My prayer resembles more to ahle hadith so they will surely accept me. Not only this one of my and best friend is twelver shia who also used to pray in deoband mosque with open hands  but no issues. Issue is there in Pak not everywhere.

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And its not the shia sunni issue. Many many sunnis esp sufi brelvi are all involved in such practice. Going to shrine is not a problem but the purpose that why they are going there more often even with their entire families. Also here I am not blaming everyone who visit shrines but the intention of majority of people going there is not good. This include both shias and sunnis equally.

There may be many reasons behind this and I am sure there are but the major one I think is the wrong concept of tawassul or waseela. It is also mentioned and highlighted by the scholar in the video.

1. Asking from Allah directly for such and such thing by virtue of His  asma o siffat or by virtue or right of his sincere servants like  Prophet s.a.w.w is correct form of waseela.

2. Asking help or anything from Prophet or Imam directly is shirk, not  waseela.

3. Asking Imam to pray to Allah on our behalf and grant us such and  such thing is also haram/shirk, not waseela. Most of sufi sunnis are involved in this.

Both 2 and 3 are not correct. In both these cases we are asking from  Imams directly, not from Allah. Best way is 1 i.e ask Allah and  present to Him the waseela or simply ass durood or salwaat in dua as waseela.

Edited by Fahad Sani

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Why are you posting material created by anti majoos?

Why would you post the video of someone clearly known for creating fitna and spreading hate among their brothers and sisters in islam?

 

What is the difference between posting a video by anti majoos and posting a lecture by abu bakr baghdadi(la)?

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13 hours ago, IbnSina said:

Why are you posting material created by anti majoos?

Why would you post the video of someone clearly known for creating fitna and spreading hate among their brothers and sisters in islam?

 

What is the difference between posting a video by anti majoos and posting a lecture by abu bakr baghdadi(la)?

I am not posting each and every video from anti majos. Neither I like their every video. Many of them are simply nonsense. I am considering those only which are somehow based on facts. And is a common issue with most of the shias and the sunnis. Purpose is not to create a fitna by Allah but to do dawah.

Here is one sunni sufi video. Visiting is not an issue but such wrong customs, practices and wrong purposes are. And its a common shia sunni issue. Both our tawhid and love for ahlebait should be pure and clean from every wrong concept and practice.

Here is one more from Pakistan. This is a common issue.

 

Edited by Fahad Sani

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Quote

 Also here I am not blaming everyone who visit shrines but the intention of majority of people going there is not good. This include both shias and sunnis equally.

I really don't get this. Why it is not good if majority people go to the shrines, specially to the Imams (as) shrines that in our hadiths have been spoken high rewards for those who visit them. Also this is rather illusion to think people visit more to shrines than masjid. I understand that those who live near the shrines, they may visit there often, but majority of Shi'as in such a countries do not live near the shrines and among of them do only visit a limited amount in year. Most of them visit the local Masjid more than shrines.

 

Edited by Dhulfikar

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13 hours ago, Dhulfikar said:

I really don't get this. Why it is not good if majority people go to the shrines, specially to the Imams (as) shrines that in our hadiths have been spoken high rewards for those who visit them. Also this is rather illusion to think people visit more to shrines than masjid. I understand that those who live near the shrines, they may visit there often, but majority of Shi'as in such a countries do not live near the shrines and among of them do only visit a limited amount in year. Most of them visit the local Masjid more than shrines.

 

Because most of them (not all) go there and use them as waseela. And practice some prohibited acts there.

13 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

There may be many reasons behind this and I am sure there are but the major one I think is the wrong concept of tawassul or waseela. It is also mentioned and highlighted by the scholar in the video.

1. Asking from Allah directly for such and such thing by virtue of His  asma o siffat or by virtue or right of his sincere servants like  Prophet s.a.w.w is correct form of waseela.

2. Asking help or anything from Prophet or Imam directly is shirk, not  waseela.

3. Asking Imam to pray to Allah on our behalf and grant us such and  such thing is also haram/shirk, not waseela. Most of sufi sunnis are involved in this.

Both 2 and 3 are not correct. In both these cases we are asking from  Imams directly, not from Allah. Best way is 1 i.e ask Allah and  present to Him the waseela or simply ass durood or salwaat in dua as waseela.

 

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Who says most of them do prohibited act or doing wasilah wrongly? Nasibis of course. If this is your reason why most of them should not visit the grave then your reasoning is weak based on assumptions. 

Edited by Dhulfikar

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Brother, i've been to sunni mosques and i've also seen sunni mosques quite empty, and i can give you a comparison of the K'aba verses that.

It's not as though we don't need improvement in this department - ofcourse we do, but the claim is really unfair. It doesn't hold true for my mosque.

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Allah only knows what this guy's intentions and motives are. He is prolific in setting up topic after topic and is one of the most active members on this site.  What is your goal sir?

I wonder whether he shows the same energy and time in raising objections with Salafs and Wahabs in their practices and their gentle Islamic approach to their fellow human beings.

If he really believes he wants to open people's eyes to the truth then he aught to do this with fellow sunnis who may need guidance because no one is buying what he's peddling.

 

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5 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Because most of them (not all) go there and use them as waseela. And practice some prohibited acts there.

 

Why is Waseela unacceptable to you, while Allah (SWT) says that find a Wasilah for his nearness in Surah-i-Maida. 

 

6 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

@Irfan1214

No. I am comparing shrine part with mosque. And thats also the subject of video, I believe.

And that problem is not everywhere in Pakistan. There are many people who are open minded and encourage unity. Except the stubborn and ignorant ones. I also pray in both deoband and bravli mosques and do rafa yadain (plus other acts which are contrary to hanafi school of thought) both in farz and nafl prayer. But no one has ever stopped or taunted me. I have practiced this in more than one city. My prayer resembles more to ahle hadith so they will surely accept me. Not only this one of my and best friend is twelver shia who also used to pray in deoband mosque with open hands  but no issues. Issue is there in Pak not everywhere.

Why are you comparing one good thing with another ? Both are places where God is remembered ? 

 

6 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

And its not the shia sunni issue. Many many sunnis esp sufi brelvi are all involved in such practice. Going to shrine is not a problem but the purpose that why they are going there more often even with their entire families. Also here I am not blaming everyone who visit shrines but the intention of majority of people going there is not good. This include both shias and sunnis equally.

There may be many reasons behind this and I am sure there are but the major one I think is the wrong concept of tawassul or waseela. It is also mentioned and highlighted by the scholar in the video.

1. Asking from Allah directly for such and such thing by virtue of His  asma o siffat or by virtue or right of his sincere servants like  Prophet s.a.w.w is correct form of waseela.

2. Asking help or anything from Prophet or Imam directly is shirk, not  waseela.

3. Asking Imam to pray to Allah on our behalf and grant us such and  such thing is also haram/shirk, not waseela. Most of sufi sunnis are involved in this.

Both 2 and 3 are not correct. In both these cases we are asking from  Imams directly, not from Allah. Best way is 1 i.e ask Allah and  present to Him the waseela or simply ass durood or salwaat in dua as waseela.

We make Tawasul 1 and 2, because Quran says to go to prophet and ask him that he may ask for your forgiveness. So, you think Quran is wrong and you are right ? I do not think that any individual opinion has any value besides Quran. And who says that asking helping from Prophet or Imam is a shirk those are men of God and their help is help of God. If you think that everything is shirk then you are doing shirk now as well by taking help from your hands for typing, it is shirk as well and do not think, it is shirk as well because brain is also helping you ? 

Man Allah (SWT) has called in Quran that Allah (SWT) is your Wali and Rasool is your Wali and those in authority and Wali means helper so if God accords someone this status why are you wasting your energy for nothing as you know that saying anything against this is nothing but waste of time ?

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Salaam brother @Fahad Sani - you continue to surprise me in a negative way.

Perhaps the pictures of the mosques were taken between salat times and it would make sense that they were empty. Perhaps the pictures of the Shrines were taken between salat times and it would make sense that the shrines were full.

Instead of this vile and senseless video and post, all you need to do is look at a live feed of Najaf (Imam Ali's shrine) or Karbala (Imam Hussain's shrine) during salat times to see the thousands and thousands reading salat in congregation. Not all mosques have a shrine within but all shrines have a mosque within.

Your next point will be that all mosques should be equally filled but that does not happen in Mecca or Medina either so it would be another wasted point.

I am looking forward to your actual, legitimate and challenging threads instead of the last 3 which have all been duds.

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13 hours ago, Irfan1214 said:

Why is Waseela unacceptable to you, while Allah (SWT) says that find a Wasilah for his nearness in Surah-i-Maida. 

Who said this wasila is not in islam. Type 1 is acceptable and correct form of tawassul while other two types constitute shirk.

13 hours ago, Irfan1214 said:

Why are you comparing one good thing with another ? Both are places where God is remembered ? 

But methods are different.

13 hours ago, Irfan1214 said:

We make Tawasul 1 and 2, because Quran says to go to prophet and ask him that he may ask for your forgiveness. So, you think Quran is wrong and you are right ? I do not think that any individual opinion has any value besides Quran. And who says that asking helping from Prophet or Imam is a shirk those are men of God and their help is help of God. If you think that everything is shirk then you are doing shirk now as well by taking help from your hands for typing, it is shirk as well and do not think, it is shirk as well because brain is also helping you ? 

Type 2 and 3 both are wrong. Type 2 is more worse. And you are proudly  saying we make this type as well. Its the common problem of Pakistan and of other places where there are shrines.  My cousin twelver shia is also doing this. He remember Allah very little as compared to Ahlebayt both in times of hardships and happiness.

And your proof on type 2 is that "Quran says to go to prophet and ask  him that he may ask for your forgiveness." In fact you are even not  following your proof as per your own wrong interpretation. Quran says  this about Prophet, not for other people including Imams and other awliya. Moreover, your interpretation is also wrong. This verse was  applicable only till the time when Prophet s.a.w.w was alive in this  world in front of people. So they used to go to Prophet s.a.w.w and He s.a.w.w then prayed to Allah and asked for their forgiveness in front of them. But  after the demise of our beloved Prophet s.a.w.w same is not possible.  We can not communicate with him directly by any means. We can only  send salwaat to him and Allah will make him know. Salwaat starts with  ALLAHUMA, here again we are saying Allah to send blessings from our side to our Prophet s.a.w.w. So for salwaat we are invoking Allah and  for other problems and needs we are asking from Prophet and from Imams directly. Moreover  what about other hundreds of verses of Quran which say invoke only  Allah alone being sincere to Him. Entire surah zumar and ghafir are on  this subject. Have a look. And anything that goes against clear verses of Quran must be rejected.

Not everything is shirk. Shirk is when you invoke someone in his/her absence (living or dead) in the form of dua or prayer. Getting help from keyboard (and from other manmade objects and from other living beings who are in front of us like doctors, engineers etc) and the likes) is not shirk because I am not making dua/prayer to  keyboard that "O my dear keyboard type such and such words for me or ask Allah to do the same for me". Invoking someone other than Allah in the form of  dua/supplication is shirk.

So invoke Allah , [being] sincere to Him in religion, although the  disbelievers dislike it. [Ghafir:14]

I dont want to go into detail. I have shown you the blue print. For details search SC, as there are already many threads on this subject.

This is the main reason why more people go to shrines. And the reason  why we condemn this because it constitutes shirk.

14 hours ago, Irfan1214 said:

Man Allah (SWT) has called in Quran that Allah (SWT) is your Wali and Rasool is your Wali and those in authority and Wali means helper so if God accords someone this status why are you wasting your energy for nothing as you know that saying anything against this is nothing but waste of time ?

Show me any one example where Imams have asked in this way (type 2,3)  from Prophet s.a.w.w or have taught their close shias to do the same  via Prophet s.a.w.w in order to make your sins forgiven and to make your needs/desires fulfilled.

Brother, we have to follow correct teachings of Prophet s.a.w.w and of His blessed Ahlebayt a.s which is as per clear verses of Quran, not the path of their misguided so called ghullat followers.

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@shiaman14

Brother, its a common issue. Not a shia sunni one.

20 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Here is one sunni sufi video. Visiting is not an issue but such wrong customs, practices and wrong purposes are. And its a common shia sunni issue. Both our tawhid and love for ahlebait should be pure and clean from every wrong concept and practice.

Here is one more from Pakistan. This is a common issue.

 

 

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