Why shrines are over crowded

[repenter-gone4awhile]

Say you have 1000 shias, as an example. You have 1 shrine of Imam Hussein, which all the shias visit. It's going to look crowded. When these 1000 shias go back to their 100 cities, whom btw some have mosques really far away and you can't go on a daily basis, of course it's going to look more empty, specially in countries like Iran and some parts of Iraq where the mosques are simply too big. This is of course simplifying it, but you get the point. It's like comparing Hajj with mosques.........

[Abu Nur]

All the topics or threads that share the videos of AntiMajoos channel should closed or hide. Having his videos here linked only give him more views, thus increasing his channel popularity. If you are concern and want to discuss on the content of the video, then its better to try to find the original clips. 

[sidnaq]

i feel you guys should post all these agruents against this video in the comments section on youtube so other ppl can see your reasons and what this video if misleading means.

[Hassan-]

26 minutes ago, sidnaq said:

i feel you guys should post all these agruents against this video in the comments section on youtube so other ppl can see your reasons and what this video if misleading means.

The owner of the video will just delete the comments..

[sidnaq]

2 minutes ago, Hassan Y said:

The owner of the video will just delete the comments..

does he one could try? he why doesnt everyone post the same comment 10 times, how many is this guy really going to delete, or at least flag him for inappropriate title

[realizm]

1 hour ago, sidnaq said:

does he one could try? he why doesnt everyone post the same comment 10 times, how many is this guy really going to delete, or at least flag him for inappropriate title

Sister do not forget that his channel - or was it one of his colleagues - posted a video named "when karbala becomes real" or something like that, which showed shias in a husseiniya when takfiris came in and shot them to death. 

And they thought it was funny.

And their video remained online for a while.

Unfortunately their videos have more thumbs up than thumbs down, I guess Youtube considers them as popular. A few flags will not change anything.

[realizm]

But you are right after all, all of us active Shiachatters should all make it an habit to report each of those videos just to bother them. Even though they will just reupload their stuff on a Antimajoos_newversion account...

[ShiaMan14]

Haters gonna hate.

For all of Muawiya's propagandas against Imam Ali (as), look where he is today and where Imam Ali (as) is today.

These people are Bani Ummayya and people who use them as credible sources are their close but closet cousins.

[Soldiers and Saffron]

I reported the video and his youtube account for spreading ideology which is on the same level as the daesh ideology and creates hate towards a specific religious group. I suggest you all do the same. It is the least you can do.

 

@Fahad Sani

Please come, I need you to guide me and my fellow muslims to the correct teachings and practices of Quran and Ahlebayt a.s as per your limited knowledge.

[Fahad Sani]

Assalam o Alaikum dear brothers and sisters,

I accept my mistake. I should have shared original video clip of  scholar and have presented the matter in a more polite way instead  of sharing this biased and inconspicuously compiled video. Same is the case with their many videos (but not all). Mockery and personal insults that they are using in videos is not the way of doing dawah etc as per teachings of Quran and Sunnah. I have also commented on one of their videos yesterday and criticized them for this wrong approach. But they did not approved my comment. Rather they are only accepting comments where either their channel is being praised or where there are insults. Although my method seems wrong to all of you  but the purpose of starting this thread was not bad. As I said, its a common shia and sunni issue and the major reason why most of the  people from both sides go to shrines is their wrong concept of wasila/tawassul (you may not agree with me but its a fact) and they surely without any doubt are doing this on basis of their love for pious servants of Allah swt. I am really apologetic for my wrong methodology on addressing an issue here and for hurting your sentiments.

May Allah swt guide us all to true teachings of Quran and the Sunnah of His beloved Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.w. Ameen.

Jazak Allahu Khaira.

[Soldiers and Saffron]

@Fahad Sani

I asked your 4 questions and I expect you to answer them or are you not here to discuss but only to tell us what is wrong and what is right as per your limited knowledge? 

Or do you think its right to start and end a discussion at your personal leisure whenever it suits you in particular? Then we must ask ourselves what you are exactly doing here because that is not the way one discusses a subject in a group of people.

[yam_110]

You can't really refute assumptions, can you? OP seems to be a master at assuming things.

[Soldiers and Saffron]

On 2017-02-01 at 3:41 AM, yam_110 said:

You can't really refute assumptions, can you? OP seems to be a master at assuming things.

Well if @Fahad Sani is not ready to answer my question then he is proving to everyone that he is not really here to have a discussion but to tell us what is wrong and what is right based on his assumptions and his limited knowledge on which he bases his assumptions on.

But lets see if he is a adult minded person or just a child with a keyboard and internet access. 

[sidnaq]

On 1/31/2017 at 4:58 PM, IbnSina said:

@Fahad Sani

I asked your 4 questions and I expect you to answer them or are you not here to discuss but only to tell us what is wrong and what is right as per your limited knowledge? 

Or do you think its right to start and end a discussion at your personal leisure whenever it suits you in particular? Then we must ask ourselves what you are exactly doing here because that is not the way one discusses a subject in a group of people.

hey get off him allright!!! he said he wasnt trying to misguide anybody.okay, its an issue any one of us shias could bring up!!! if he is noticing something which is of islamic concern to all of us, shias and sunnis and he apologized for using a wrong video but he wanted to express a concern, then come on, either give him an answer but youre angry at him for i dont know what?

[Soldiers and Saffron]

10 hours ago, sidnaq said:

hey get off him allright!!! he said he wasnt trying to misguide anybody.okay, its an issue any one of us shias could bring up!!! if he is noticing something which is of islamic concern to all of us, shias and sunnis and he apologized for using a wrong video but he wanted to express a concern, then come on, either give him an answer but youre angry at him for i dont know what?

I am not angry at him, I am annoyed with him because he is devious and I dont let the "higher akhlaq behavior" fool me. I will tell you what sidnaq, as an adult person you are responsible and held accountable for the things you utter.

In a discussion there are more than 1 person involved and as such conversation takes place and what conversation means is that people talk to each other, one says one thing and the other one replies to that and there is a exchange of information and arguments and reasoning. What @Fahad Sani is doing here is that tries to terminate the discussion in which ever phase suits him best and the phase that suits him best is the one where he gets to say whatever he wants to say, which he deems absolute truth, and when someone points out how devious his intention is, he then jump out. This is not the way a discussion between adult persons work.

In this case, I asked him some questions and instead of answering them he ignored them, why? It is because I got him against the wall now and he knows that if he answers my questions he further makes it obvious to everyone ells how relatively ridiculous and devious his "worry" for us truly is and if his intentions which is to "guide myself and my fellow muslims to the correct teachings and practices of Quran and Ahlebayt a.s as per my limited knowledge." are true, then a obvious question to ask is: out of the problems that are facing the ummah and islam in general, is this "worry" which consists of why we visit the shrines which are also masjid instead of only masjids without shrines, really the top problem today?

Or are people(wahabi/salafi/zionists) who are trying to turn islam into daesh a bigger problem? And if it is a bigger problem then why is he not making a thread about that? Is it because we are shias and he wishes to guide us to what he considers truth or is it because he deems the "problem" brought up in this thread a higher threat to islam and the ummah? In which case we must ask ourselves about his mental health. Second of all, is he the right person to raise this "problem"?

I am not letting go of this until he answers the questions I asked him in his thread, I took the time to read about his "worries" watch the "lecture" and write a response, now he is going to take his time, as per customary manner in a discussion and answers my questions and if he is not, then it is obvious that he does not seek discussion but to lecture us and in which case I will follow him on every single thread he ever makes and highlight it to the reader that its futile to discuss with him because he seeks to lecture, because he believes he is intellectually superior, and ask people to ignore him.

[Soldiers and Saffron]

10 hours ago, sidnaq said:

hey get off him allright!!! he said he wasnt trying to misguide anybody.okay, its an issue any one of us shias could bring up!!! if he is noticing something which is of islamic concern to all of us, shias and sunnis and he apologized for using a wrong video but he wanted to express a concern, then come on, either give him an answer but youre angry at him for i dont know what?

I am not angry at him, I am annoyed with him because he is devious and I dont let the "higher akhlaq behavior" fool me. I will tell you what sidnaq, as an adult person you are responsible and held accountable for the things you utter.

In a discussion there are more than 1 person involved and as such conversation takes place and what conversation means is that people talk to each other, one says one thing and the other one replies to that and there is a exchange of information and arguments and reasoning. What @Fahad Sani is doing here is that tries to terminate the discussion in which ever phase suits him best and the phase that suits him best is the one where he gets to say whatever he wants to say, which he deems absolute truth, and when someone points out how devious his intention is, he then jump out. This is not the way a discussion between adult persons work.

In this case, I asked him some questions and instead of answering them he ignored them, why? It is because I got him against the wall now and he knows that if he answers my questions he further makes it obvious to everyone ells how relatively ridiculous and devious his "worry" for us truly is and if his intentions which is to "guide myself and my fellow muslims to the correct teachings and practices of Quran and Ahlebayt a.s as per my limited knowledge." are true, then a obvious question to ask is: out of the problems that are facing the ummah and islam in general, is this "worry" which consists of why we visit the shrines which are also masjid instead of only masjids without shrines, really the top problem today?

Or are people(wahabi/salafi/zionists) who are trying to turn islam into daesh a bigger problem? And if it is a bigger problem then why is he not making a thread about that? Is it because we are shias and he wishes to guide us to what he considers truth or is it because he deems the "problem" brought up in this thread a higher threat to islam and the ummah? In which case we must ask ourselves about his mental health. Second of all, is he the right person to raise this "problem"?

I am not letting go of this until he answers the questions I asked him in his thread, I took the time to read about his "worries" watch the "lecture" and write a response, now he is going to take his time, as per customary manner in a discussion and answers my questions and if he is not, then it is obvious that he does not seek discussion but to lecture us and in which case I will follow him on every single thread he ever makes and highlight it to the reader that its futile to discuss with him because he seeks to lecture, because he believes he is intellectually superior, and ask people to ignore him.

[ShiaMan14]

5 hours ago, IbnSina said:

I am not angry at him, I am annoyed with him because he is devious and I dont let the "higher akhlaq behavior" fool me. I will tell you what sidnaq, as an adult person you are responsible and held accountable for the things you utter.

In a discussion there are more than 1 person involved and as such conversation takes place and what conversation means is that people talk to each other, one says one thing and the other one replies to that and there is a exchange of information and arguments and reasoning. What @Fahad Sani is doing here is that tries to terminate the discussion in which ever phase suits him best and the phase that suits him best is the one where he gets to say whatever he wants to say, which he deems absolute truth, and when someone points out how devious his intention is, he then jump out. This is not the way a discussion between adult persons work.

In this case, I asked him some questions and instead of answering them he ignored them, why? It is because I got him against the wall now and he knows that if he answers my questions he further makes it obvious to everyone ells how relatively ridiculous and devious his "worry" for us truly is and if his intentions which is to "guide myself and my fellow muslims to the correct teachings and practices of Quran and Ahlebayt a.s as per my limited knowledge." are true, then a obvious question to ask is: out of the problems that are facing the ummah and islam in general, is this "worry" which consists of why we visit the shrines which are also masjid instead of only masjids without shrines, really the top problem today?

Or are people(wahabi/salafi/zionists) who are trying to turn islam into daesh a bigger problem? And if it is a bigger problem then why is he not making a thread about that? Is it because we are shias and he wishes to guide us to what he considers truth or is it because he deems the "problem" brought up in this thread a higher threat to islam and the ummah? In which case we must ask ourselves about his mental health. Second of all, is he the right person to raise this "problem"?

I am not letting go of this until he answers the questions I asked him in his thread, I took the time to read about his "worries" watch the "lecture" and write a response, now he is going to take his time, as per customary manner in a discussion and answers my questions and if he is not, then it is obvious that he does not seek discussion but to lecture us and in which case I will follow him on every single thread he ever makes and highlight it to the reader that its futile to discuss with him because he seeks to lecture, because he believes he is intellectually superior, and ask people to ignore him.

I second your opinions. Furthermore, I am waiting to hear back on:

All Daesh are Sunni.
Sunnis do not go to shrines

Shias go to shrines
Shias are not Daesh

Therefore, going to shrines prevents people from joining Daesh. Conversely, avoiding shrines leads people to the path of Daesh.

[sidnaq]

8 hours ago, IbnSina said:

I am not angry at him, I am annoyed with him because he is devious and I dont let the "higher akhlaq behavior" fool me. I will tell you what sidnaq, as an adult person you are responsible and held accountable for the things you utter.

In a discussion there are more than 1 person involved and as such conversation takes place and what conversation means is that people talk to each other, one says one thing and the other one replies to that and there is a exchange of information and arguments and reasoning. What @Fahad Sani is doing here is that tries to terminate the discussion in which ever phase suits him best and the phase that suits him best is the one where he gets to say whatever he wants to say, which he deems absolute truth, and when someone points out how devious his intention is, he then jump out. This is not the way a discussion between adult persons work.

In this case, I asked him some questions and instead of answering them he ignored them, why? It is because I got him against the wall now and he knows that if he answers my questions he further makes it obvious to everyone ells how relatively ridiculous and devious his "worry" for us truly is and if his intentions which is to "guide myself and my fellow muslims to the correct teachings and practices of Quran and Ahlebayt a.s as per my limited knowledge." are true, then a obvious question to ask is: out of the problems that are facing the ummah and islam in general, is this "worry" which consists of why we visit the shrines which are also masjid instead of only masjids without shrines, really the top problem today?

Or are people(wahabi/salafi/zionists) who are trying to turn islam into daesh a bigger problem? And if it is a bigger problem then why is he not making a thread about that? Is it because we are shias and he wishes to guide us to what he considers truth or is it because he deems the "problem" brought up in this thread a higher threat to islam and the ummah? In which case we must ask ourselves about his mental health. Second of all, is he the right person to raise this "problem"?

I am not letting go of this until he answers the questions I asked him in his thread, I took the time to read about his "worries" watch the "lecture" and write a response, now he is going to take his time, as per customary manner in a discussion and answers my questions and if he is not, then it is obvious that he does not seek discussion but to lecture us and in which case I will follow him on every single thread he ever makes and highlight it to the reader that its futile to discuss with him because he seeks to lecture, because he believes he is intellectually superior, and ask people to ignore him.

brother you too as an adult for what you utter, you are accusing him of things, are we allowed to accuse? oh youre acting this because of this reason, havent you ever been wrongly accused. perhaps on this shia forum he wishes to discuss more about a particular shia issue, i too have brought up issues i see in shia i would not like it if someone flipped it around to say ohyeah well anyswer me this why do you have this problem.i mean sometimes that approach may not work.and in his words i see him apologzing, hes not attacking us , even if i wanted an answer to my question i might ignore people who start asking me something else. just answer the question and go, and what is this you see i got him against the wall, he is trapped stuff. didnt we already discuss on this forum not to accuse our sunni brothers and sister.youre the one who seems like youre trying to start an argument with him, now if i started you questions all over the place maybe youd be the type to just ignore me and not bother to answer . if for other forums he hasnt answered or anyting that i am not concerned with, i am concerned about this thread, and on this thread i see the man apologzing and he doesnt sound like hes trying to misguide people in his last sentence.In fact people are just accusing him and well i am not going to have any part of it .

[sidnaq]

On 1/25/2017 at 3:56 PM, zainabamy said:

Sighs. Only you would have a problem with people visiting shrines.

Salam sister i dont think do the op has a problem with ppl visiting shrines just if ppl are visiting them more than mosques. of course visiting shrines is a great deed 

[zainabamy]

4 hours ago, sidnaq said:

Salam sister i dont think do the op has a problem with ppl visiting shrines just if ppl are visiting them more than mosques. of course visiting shrines is a great deed 

Sis the OP has an obvious agenda against Shiism, have you not seen his other threads? When has he ever stood up for Shiism? The worst thing about this is that innocent Shi'as might read his misguided posts and cause them to have doubts in their faith for a pathetic reason such as this. 

Edited February 6, 2017 by zainabamy
....

[sidnaq]

1 hour ago, zainabamy said:

Sis the OP has an obvious agenda against Shiism, have you not seen his other threads? When has he ever stood up for Shiism? The worst thing about this is that innocent Shi'as might read his misguided posts and cause them to have doubts in their faith for a pathetic reason such as this. 

well in this thread he doesnt sound like he is trying to misguide people. i dont understand. sure a sunni might see certain things in shia islam and he wants to dispell his doubts about the things he is seeing. would you rather we turn him away and let him say oh the shias are this or that. then wouldnt we say if you had doubts about shia islam why dont you come and talk to us about your doubts, we would have taken them away.if his other threads it does seem he was trying to misguide then sure that is wrong, but what if a sunni has heard a lot of badthings about shias, and obviously if he doesnt bring one doubt but many to the attention of shias why do we say look at so many of his posts it is obvious he is trying to insult us. Of course i would suggest to the OP that his could take his doubts to a knowlegable shia aalim rather than shia chat if other members are feeling uncomfortable with the questions or they may feel it may misguide people.

[Gaius I. Caesar]

No, Sidnaq, he definitely has an agenda. Ibn Sina is right to be annoyed by someone who manipulates a discussion like the way Fahad does. Also you know very well that a Shia would never be concerned about how many people go to Karbala or Najaf, Qum, Mashhad, etc. 

For this Shia, he is glad that many people across the world go to Iraq and Iran to see the Ahlulbayt (as) because he knows that they are the family of the greatest man in world.

The Shia knows that as long as they are visited and remembered for the blessed family they are, their memory will never fade away from the world. And, that brings joy to his heart because it brings him closer to Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì

Do you really think such a joyous and serene person would entertain the thought that the shrine are too overcrowded?

By the way, no Shia would ever bother with the manhaj of Ahlus Sunnah wa Jamaah, let alone mix his beliefs with the beliefs of Ahlul Sunnah wa Jamaah. If Shia, does it make sense to mix your beliefs with that of scholars like Ibn Taymiyyah and Ibn Hanbal who say that you are lower or worse than a kufar and it is permissible for other Muslims to kill you for your beliefs?

On 2/5/2017 at 11:41 AM, shiaman14 said:

I second your opinions. Furthermore, I am waiting to hear back on:

All Daesh are Sunni.
Sunnis do not go to shrines

Shias go to shrines
Shias are not Daesh

Therefore, going to shrines prevents people from joining Daesh. Conversely, avoiding shrines leads people to the path of Daesh.

I would say this:

All Daesh are Salafi

Some Sunnis are Salafi

Therefore some Sunnis and all Salafis avoid and don't go or have the desire to visit the shrines

To not visit the shrines spreads the Salafi cancer of the heart and fuels Daesh.

Most Shias go to the shrines, a few desire to go but don't have the means. Some Sunnis also go on ziyarah.

All Shias and some Sunnis are not Daesh.

Having the desire or going on the ziyarah therefore stops the spreading of spiritual cancer in Islam known as Salafism and stops people from joining groups like Daesh.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Gaius I. Caesar

[sidnaq]

9 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

No, Sidnaq, he definitely has an agenda. Ibn Sina is right to be annoyed by someone who manipulates a discussion like the way Fahad does. Also you know very well that a Shia would never be concerned about how many people go to Karbala or Najaf, Qum, Mashhad, etc. 

For this Shia, he is glad that many people across the world go to Iraq and Iran to see the Ahlulbayt (as) because he knows that they are the family of the greatest man in world.

The Shia knows that as long as they are visited and remembered for the blessed family they are, their memory will never fade away from the world. And, that brings joy to his heart because it brings him closer to Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì

Do you really think such a joyous and serene person would entertain the thought that the shrine are too overcrowded?

By the way, no Shia would ever bother with the manhaj of Ahlus Sunnah wa Jamaah, let alone mix his beliefs with the beliefs of Ahlul Sunnah wa Jamaah. If Shia, does it make sense to mix your beliefs with that of scholars like Ibn Taymiyyah and Ibn Hanbal who say that you are lower or worse than a kufar and it is permissible for other Muslims to kill you for your beliefs?

I would say this:

All Daesh are Salafi

Some Sunnis are Salafi

Therefore some Sunnis and all Salafis avoid and don't go or have the desire to visit the shrines

To not visit the shrines spreads the Salafi cancer of the heart and fuels Daesh.

Most Shias go to the shrines, a few desire to go but don't have the means. Some Sunnis also go on ziyarah.

All Shias and some Sunnis are not Daesh.

Having the desire or going on the ziyarah therefore stops the spreading of spiritual cancer in Islam known as Salafism and stops people from joining groups like Daesh.

well in this thread, i dont see him trying to push any agenda or anything.

[Gaius I. Caesar]

I do, I don't know how you don't but it's right there in front of the computer screen. Personally, I been trying not to get involved but Ibn Sina is right, Fahad has an agenda. I knew this from the moment I saw the Anti-Majoos video. Did you not see the logo of the skull with the black turban and beard? People in general don't post these types of videos by accident, especially on a site dedicated to Shia Islam. 

 

Edited February 7, 2017 by Gaius I. Caesar

[Fahad Sani]

I am replying here just for the sake of further clarification. Nothing else. You can also read my initial posts on this thread for the same.

 

On 1/26/2017 at 2:31 AM, IbnSina said:

1. Then why are you making a thread on how people visit shrines "instead" of mosques? Did the thought to begin with ever hit you that the shrines can be part of mosques in which case visiting the shrine includes visiting a mosque?

Thread is about "why shrines are over crowded". My focus was only on this part of video. Title of this thread and of video is half same. And its the common shia sunni issue (I also shared some videos from sunni world). And the shrines to be a part of mosques or vice versa is not the teaching of Islam.

Some narrations.

وعن علي بن إبراهيم ، عن أبيه ، عن النوفلي ، عن السكوني ، عن أبي عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) قال : قال أمير المؤمنين ( عليه السلام ) : بعثني رسول الله ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) إلى المدينة فقال : لا تدع صورة إلا محوتها ، ولا قبراً إلا سويته ، ولا كلباً إلا قتلته.

ورواه البرقي في ( المحاسن ) عن النوفلي ، مثله.

And from `Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from an-Nawfali from as-Sakuni from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام.  He said: Amir al-Mu’mineen عليه السلام said: The Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله sent me to Madina, and said: Do not leave an image but that you have effaced it, nor a grave but that you have leveled it, nor a dog but that you have killed it.

Source: Wasa’il ash-Shi’ah, chapter: Decorating houses with images and al-Barqi narrated it in al-Mahasin from an-Nawfali likewise

عن أبي جعفر عليه السلام قال: إن رسول الله ص قال: لا تتخذوا قبري قبلة ولا مسجدًا، فإن الله عز وجل لعن الذين اتخذوا قبور أنبيائهم مساجد

Abu Ja’far (al-Baqir, father of al-Sadiq) narrates that the Prophet (صل الله علیه و أله و سلم) said:

“Don’t take my grave as a Qiblah nor as a place of worship, for indeed, Allah has cursed those who took the graves of their Prophets as places of worship”.

Source: Saduq’s “Man la yahduruhu al-Faqih” vol 1, p 178, hadith# 532. Also in Majlisi’s “Bihar al-Anwar” vol. 79, p 20; and vol. 80, p 313

Shaikh Saduq narrated in his book “Man la yahdurhul faqih” LINK

And Samah ibn Mihran asked him about visiting graves and building mosques upon them. And he said: As for visiting graves, there is nothing wrong with this, and DON’T BUILD NEAR IT MOSQUES.

 

Here is an example from modern times.

Grave of King Abdullah of Saudi. As per teachings of Prophet s.a.w.w. Just like Jannat ul Baqi.

And this is the grave of Imam Khomeini. Its more like a five star hotel. Also a waste of money.

 

Apart from invoking Allah’s forgiveness and mercy for the engraved, all other acts of worship are prohibited at the graves/shrines. And most people who go there are actually involved in such prohibited acts. That's one of the major reason why Prophet s.a.w.w. and Ahlebait a.s prohibited making shrines of pious servants of Allah. As such places were the source of forbidden acts in the past nations. Same is going on in this ummah.

 

On 1/26/2017 at 2:31 AM, IbnSina said:

2. Second of all, as I said, if you are worried about "correct teaching and practices of Quran and Ahlebayt a.s" then why are you not adressing the fact that sunnis, not shias, not sufis, are the ones that are joining daesh and other terror organizations that bring SHAME to the religion of AllahÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì?

 

Both such acts are contrary to the teachings of Islam. And Imam Mahdi a.s will put an end to both such practises. Courtesy authentic narrations. SC is a shia dedicated forum. So here I am addressing more common and general issues in which twelver shias are particularly involved.

 

On 1/26/2017 at 2:31 AM, IbnSina said:

 

3. Surely your brain must comprehend the fact that people suicide bombing and raping and otherwise killing innocent men, women and children in the name of Islam and the fact that some sunnis beleive abu bakr baghdadi(la) to be one of their 12 rightly guided caliphas FAR WORSE than people visiting shrines insides of mosque? Does your brain not comprehend this in term of whats more relevant to your own quote and "goal"?

Yes. Its far worse. But as you said and its true that not shias only some sunnis are involved in this. While the majority from both sides is involved in visiting shrines. I am here addressing the common and general issue which had already been addressed many times on this forum. I am not the first person who is doing this. Again let me clarify that visiting graves/graveyard is not the issue but the wrong acts which are part of shrines since the time of Prophet Nuh a.s.

 

On 1/26/2017 at 2:31 AM, IbnSina said:

4. And if it does comprehend this and if you are true to your own words, then why are you trying to help us visit the shrines inside of the mosque less instead of helping your more "rightly guided" siblings not to blow themselves up among innocent people which they consider are rafida kafirs because they visit shrines inside of mosques?

Such terrorist groups are Khawarij, the worst people, the cursed people. They are also killing and calling sunnis kafir. They are enemies of both shia and sunni muslims, in short enemies of Islam.

 

Edited February 7, 2017 by Fahad Sani

[Fahad Sani]

On 2/5/2017 at 9:41 PM, shiaman14 said:

I second your opinions. Furthermore, I am waiting to hear back on:

All Daesh are Sunni.
Sunnis do not go to shrines

Shias go to shrines
Shias are not Daesh

Therefore, going to shrines prevents people from joining Daesh. Conversely, avoiding shrines leads people to the path of Daesh.

Most of the sunnis esp of indo-pak-bangla and other sufism influenced regions also go to shrines. Going to shrine is not the problem but the shrine itself and the wrong practises which are part of the visit.

ANd there are many sunnis who do not go to shrines at all instead they visit graveyards for getting Ibrah/admonition and at the same time are also against the path of daish and other terrorist groups.

Terrorism and building shrines and worshiping there etc are both forbidden acts in Islam.

 

 

[Fahad Sani]

On 2/6/2017 at 0:32 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I would say this:

All Daesh are Salafi

Some Sunnis are Salafi

Therefore some Sunnis and all Salafis avoid and don't go or have the desire to visit the shrines

To not visit the shrines spreads the Salafi cancer of the heart and fuels Daesh.

Most Shias go to the shrines, a few desire to go but don't have the means. Some Sunnis also go on ziyarah.

All Shias and some Sunnis are not Daesh.

Having the desire or going on the ziyarah therefore stops the spreading of spiritual cancer in Islam known as Salafism and stops people from joining groups like Daesh.

Some sunnis? while rest all are daish i.e the entire sunni world except some? 

And moreover, there are plenty of authentic narrations from Prophet s.a.w.w and from Ahlebait a.s on not having shrines or big buildings on graves. Its not the salafi man made doctrine but a fundamental teaching of Islam. http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234976820-did-the-imams-build-shrines/

Brother only about few percent sunnis are daish or their supporters. In fact they are khawarij among sunnis. They are the extremist groups. Just like we have some extremist people in twelver shia world. In fact in every nation/tribe there were and are both good and the bad people. Same goes for Salafis, Deobands, Brelvis etc.

 

Mostly Khawarij and Daish/ISIS are from Banu Tamim tribe. The tribe whose people were disrespectful to Prophet s.a.w.w on many occasions. But the same tribe, banu Tamim is also highly praised by Prophet s.a.w.w. In short there were/are/will be people from banu Tamim who will be a disgrace on Islam, likewise there were/are/will be people from the same tribe who will be a blessing for Islam.

Narrated Abu Sa`id:

While the Prophet (ﷺ) was distributing (something, `Abdullah bin Dhil Khawaisira at-Tamimi came and said, "Be just, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)!" The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Woe to you ! Who would be just if I were not?" `Umar bin Al-Khattab said, "Allow me to cut off his neck ! " The Prophet (ﷺ) said, " Leave him, for he has companions, and if you compare your prayers with their prayers and your fasting with theirs, you will look down upon your prayers and fasting, in comparison to theirs. Yet they will go out of the religion as an arrow darts through the game's body in which case, if the Qudhadh of the arrow is examined, nothing will be found on it, and when its Nasl is examined, nothing will be found on it; and then its Nadiyi is examined, nothing will be found on it. The arrow has been too fast to be smeared by dung and blood. The sign by which these people will be recognized will be a man whose one hand (or breast) will be like the breast of a woman (or like a moving piece of flesh). These people will appear when there will be differences among the people (Muslims)." Abu Sa`id added: I testify that I heard this from the Prophet (ﷺ) and also testify that `Ali killed those people while I was with him. The man with the description given by the Prophet (ﷺ) was brought to `Ali. The following Verses were revealed in connection with that very person (i.e., `Abdullah bin Dhil-Khawaisira at-Tarnimi): 'And among them are men who accuse you (O Muhammad) in the matter of (the distribution of) the alms.' (9.58) Sahih al-Bukhari 6933

 

Narrated Abu Huraira:

I have not ceased to like Banu Tamim ever since I heard of three qualities attributed to them by Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) (He said): They, out of all my followers, will be the strongest opponent of Ad-Dajjal; `Aisha had a slave-girl from them, and the Prophet (ﷺ) told her to manumit her as she was from the descendants of (the Prophet) Ishmael; and, when their Zakat was brought, the Prophet (ﷺ) said, "This is the Zakat of my people." Sahih al-Bukhari 4366

 

Quote

The tribe of Banu Tamim (Arabic: بـنـو تـمـيـم‎‎) or Bani Tamim (Arabic: بـني تـمـيـم‎‎) is one of the main tribes of Arabia. Tamim, the ancestor of the tribe, is a direct descendant of Adnan and is thus considered an Ishmaelite tribe descending from Ishmael, the son of Abraham.

Today, descendants from the tribe live in the Arabian Peninsula and neighboring countries such as Saudi Arabia, Egypt,^[1][2]Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Syria, Qatar, Oman, Yemen, Bahrain, United Arab Emirates, Iran, Lebanon and Palestine. The word Tamim in Arabic means strong and solid. It also means perfection

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Tamim

 

Edited February 7, 2017 by Fahad Sani

[Soldiers and Saffron]

@Fahad Sani

Let me ask you this:

1. Do you think you are the right person to come and tell us what is right and what is wrong?

2. Are you in any position to educate us?

3 .What qualifies you to lecture us?

4. Are you even shia? And If you are not, then is not better to educate your closer and more like minded friends in not blowing themselves up first and foremost? Have you seen some of the things they truly believe in the most popular supposedly sunni forums? Or do you want me to quote for you?

Oh and a pro tip for you, shias dont consider sahih Bukhari hadiths sahih, so no point quoting "sahih" hadiths and tell us its absolute truth.

You seriously did not know this? Your religion says "Shia with manhaj of Ahlul Sunnah" what the hell does that even mean? Did you make it up yourself from your 40 years of studying the religion of islam, its history and the tafsirs of the holy Qur'an? Or did you write your own tafsir perhaps?

Edited February 7, 2017 by IbnSina

[zainabamy]

5 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Just like Jannat ul Baqi.

Astagfirullah. So you think its acceptable for heathens to go and destroy somebodies grave? How would you feel if that was your mother's grave or your brother's? But because its people who lived so long ago it doesn't matter. Don't you think the inhabitants of Baqi will complain on the Day of Judgement to Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì about the injustices that were done to them after their deaths? In the same way you respect a corpse, the same goes for a grave. 

 

[zainabamy]

If shrines were really a problem then why doesn't Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì mention this in the Qur'an? Mosques were built over Prophet David (as) in Quds, Prophet Ibrahim (as), Prophet Isaac (as), Prophet Jacob (as) and Prophet Josepth (as) in Hebron pre-Islam and yet Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì doesn't say anything about that.

I think you should take the advice of Ibn Sina and others and stop bothering to 'educate us.'

[Soldiers and Saffron]

2 hours ago, zainabamy said:

Astagfirullah. So you think its acceptable for heathens to go and destroy somebodies grave? How would you feel if that was your mother's grave or your brother's? But because its people who lived so long ago it doesn't matter. Don't you think the inhabitants of Baqi will complain on the Day of Judgement to Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì about the injustices that were done to them after their deaths? In the same way you respect a corpse, the same goes for a grave. 

 

That is a good point the sister raises actually.

@Fahad Sani

Since you seem very anti shrine and the visiting of shrines and since you took the example of that "saudi kings" grave as an example of whats correct "Just like Jannat ul Baqi" and did that comparison, which indicates that you are fine with what the wahabis did to their shrines:

What do you think about this? Do you know what it is?

 

You are happy to see this?

 

[Fahad Sani]

16 hours ago, IbnSina said:

@Fahad Sani

Let me ask you this:

1. Do you think you are the right person to come and tell us what is right and what is wrong?

2. Are you in any position to educate us?

3 .What qualifies you to lecture us?

4. Are you even shia? And If you are not, then is not better to educate your closer and more like minded friends in not blowing themselves up first and foremost? Have you seen some of the things they truly believe in the most popular supposedly sunni forums? Or do you want me to quote for you?

Oh and a pro tip for you, shias dont consider sahih Bukhari hadiths sahih, so no point quoting "sahih" hadiths and tell us its absolute truth.

You seriously did not know this? Your religion says "Shia with manhaj of Ahlul Sunnah" what the hell does that even mean? Did you make it up yourself from your 40 years of studying the religion of islam, its history and the tafsirs of the holy Qur'an? Or did you write your own tafsir perhaps?

1. Dont look at me. See the sources I mention. Anything that I say without sources is nothing.

2. No. I am just providing the information, like other fellow members.

3. I am a layman. Myself a student.

4. Yes. I am shia but not twelver. Extremist people are in every school of thought.

All the narrations in this post are from popular shia books.

Its just like Ibn Abbas r.a who was a shia of ALi a.s and was also on manhaj of ahlul sunnah. Just like there are difference of opinion between classic shia scholars and modern shia scholars. Manhaj of Ahlul Sunnah is based on Quran, Sunnah and Ijma of sahabah and Ahlebait.

[Fahad Sani]

15 hours ago, zainabamy said:

Astagfirullah. So you think its acceptable for heathens to go and destroy somebodies grave? How would you feel if that was your mother's grave or your brother's? But because its people who lived so long ago it doesn't matter. Don't you think the inhabitants of Baqi will complain on the Day of Judgement to Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì about the injustices that were done to them after their deaths? In the same way you respect a corpse, the same goes for a grave. 

 

No. Its only acceptable when you have authority or government over there. Just like Muhammad ibn Wahab did when ho got the power. Just like Prophet s.a.w.w ordered Imam ALi a.s when makka was conquered and they got power over entire arabia. And not the graves but the structure over them or cemented graves were destroyed.

I would also want my and my parents graves to be as per sunnah of Prophet s.a.w.w.

No. Inhabitants of Baqi will not compliant on the teachings of Prophet s.a.w.w. Shrine were built much later on Baqi and on other places.

If there would be structures and building like hotel over graves then surely people will visit and sit there for hours and will commit the acts which are prohibited. Thats why Ahlebait a.s also never recommended having shrines over their blessed graves.

15 hours ago, zainabamy said:

If shrines were really a problem then why doesn't Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì mention this in the Qur'an? Mosques were built over Prophet David (as) in Quds, Prophet Ibrahim (as), Prophet Isaac (as), Prophet Jacob (as) and Prophet Josepth (as) in Hebron pre-Islam and yet Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì doesn't say anything about that.

I think you should take the advice of Ibn Sina and others and stop bothering to 'educate us.'

All such things you will find in ahadith in much detail. There are separate chapters on these subjects both in shia and sunni hadith books, not just few narrations.

I think, you are right. I have spent alot of time here. Now its better to leave.

[Fahad Sani]

13 hours ago, IbnSina said:

That is a good point the sister raises actually.

@Fahad Sani

Since you seem very anti shrine and the visiting of shrines and since you took the example of that "saudi kings" grave as an example of whats correct "Just like Jannat ul Baqi" and did that comparison, which indicates that you are fine with what the wahabis did to their shrines:

What do you think about this? Do you know what it is?

 

You are happy to see this?

 

No. Its wrong. Whoever has done that its not acceptable.You can not do this by bombing and killing people.

13 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Its only acceptable when you have authority or government over there. Just like Muhammad ibn Wahab did when ho got the power. Just like Prophet s.a.w.w ordered Imam ALi a.s when makka was conquered and they got power over entire arabia. And not the graves but the structure over them or cemented graves were destroyed.

 

21 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

وعن علي بن إبراهيم ، عن أبيه ، عن النوفلي ، عن السكوني ، عن أبي عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) قال : قال أمير المؤمنين ( عليه السلام ) : بعثني رسول الله ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) إلى المدينة فقال : لا تدع صورة إلا محوتها ، ولا قبراً إلا سويته ، ولا كلباً إلا قتلته.

ورواه البرقي في ( المحاسن ) عن النوفلي ، مثله.

And from `Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from an-Nawfali from as-Sakuni from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام.  He said: Amir al-Mu’mineen عليه السلام said: The Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله sent me to Madina, and said: Do not leave an image but that you have effaced it, nor a grave but that you have leveled it, nor a dog but that you have killed it.

Source: Wasa’il ash-Shi’ah, chapter: Decorating houses with images and al-Barqi narrated it in al-Mahasin from an-Nawfali likewise

عن أبي جعفر عليه السلام قال: إن رسول الله ص قال: لا تتخذوا قبري قبلة ولا مسجدًا، فإن الله عز وجل لعن الذين اتخذوا قبور أنبيائهم مساجد

Abu Ja’far (al-Baqir, father of al-Sadiq) narrates that the Prophet (صل الله علیه و أله و سلم) said:

“Don’t take my grave as a Qiblah nor as a place of worship, for indeed, Allah has cursed those who took the graves of their Prophets as places of worship”.

Source: Saduq’s “Man la yahduruhu al-Faqih” vol 1, p 178, hadith# 532. Also in Majlisi’s “Bihar al-Anwar” vol. 79, p 20; and vol. 80, p 313

 

And I am sure Imam Mahdi a.s will also do the same and will revive the sunnah of Imam Ali a.s when he become caliph. Because Imam Mahdi a.s will establish Islam all over the world in its true sense.

[zainabamy]

20 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

All such things you will find in ahadith in much detail. There are separate chapters on these subjects both in shia and sunni hadith books, not just few narrations.

 Dude you just completely ignored the Qur'an...

21 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

I think, you are right. I have spent alot of time here. Now its better to leave.

Have a nice life.