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In the Name of God بسم الله

I feel sorry for those who believe him...

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:salam:

All praise belongs to Allah, he has no rival, no partner and Muhammad is his Servant and his Messenger that was sent with guidance and the religion of truth that it will overcome / prevail over all other religions and systems. May peace be upon his ahl al-bayt, his companions and the believers collectively.

The disbelievers who assert that it’s impossible to establish the sharee’ah in our countries are liars. It’s possible if our rulers were not sellouts, especially lapdogs of the west. The reason for it being impossible today is because the Muslims don’t care about their religion anymore and accumulate wealth as if that wealth will go with them in their graves when they die (E.g. The PM of Pakistan – Nawaz Sharif). We imitate the disbelievers and celebrate their festivals (Christmas, Easter and so forth). The disbelievers want us to think that Sharee’ah can’t be established, that it’s impossible, people like Andres. But, these disbelievers don’t even know one percent about the religion. How the rulings are derived and from what sources. They just know how to talk big, speaking on behalf of Muslims.

Don’t let them fool you. If they are peaceful people, then stop invading our countries and poking your noses in our businesses. Leave us alone. We didn’t start this war, you came into our countries and started to bomb us. Sent drone strikes to Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia. And do you think that we can easily forget this, even if you say sorry? How many innocent Muslims do you’ve in your guantanamo bay? Innocent people that were tortured? This is their lovely democracy!

War in Islam should not be waged for the sole purpose of shedding blood or seeking vengeance. If the Muslims capture them and take them to a place that has been prepared for them, they should not harm them or torture them with beatings, depriving them of food and water, leaving them out in the sun or the cold, burning them with fire, or putting covers over their mouths, ears and eyes and putting them in cages like animals. Rather they should treat them with kindness and mercy, feed them well and encourage them to enter Islam.

In the Qur’aan, Allaah says of the righteous (interpretation of the meaning): 

“And they give food, in spite of their love for it (or for the love of Him), to the Miskeen (the poor), the orphan, and the captive,

(Saying): ‘We feed you seeking Allaah’s Countenance only. We wish for no reward, nor thanks from you’”

[al-Insaan 76:8-9] 

Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “Ibn ‘Abbaas said: in those days their prisoners were mushrikeen; on the day of Badr the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) commanded them to be kind to their prisoners, so they used to put them before themselves when it came to food… Mujaahid said, this refers to the one who is detained, i.e., they would give food to these prisoners even though they themselves desired it and loved it.” 

They don’t have set of laws that they follow strictly, they can null and void their own laws when they see it fit to do that, but as Muslims following the Sharee’ah we can’t remove or null anything since it’s divinely revealed. We can’t disobey God and his Messenger. 

The democratic countries (i.e., Christian nations) "give full freedom", you can do anything that doesn't harm anyone, music is permissible, zina is permissible as long as the both parties consent, riba' is permissible, homosexuality & same-sex marriage is permissible, alcohol is permissible, rapists are thrown in prisons, whilst in Sharee'ah the punishment is death for the rapist, women are half naked and used in entertainment. This is democracy, this is freedom according to them. And they want this for the Muslims, we leave the Sharee'ah aside and establish their kuffar laws - This is what they want. They also use liberal Muslims for their advantage. Today we have Muslims who support LGBT (Astaghfirullah!). 

The Prophet (S.A.W) said: "You will imitate the nations before you very closely to the extent that if they went into a lizard's hole, you would enter it as well” his companions, may Allaah be pleased with them, inquired: “(Do you mean) the Jews and Christians, O Messenger of Allaah?” He sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam replied: "Who else?” (Bukhaari & Muslim).

May Allah azza wa jall guide us, protect us from the kuffar, Ameen! 

Edited by Shahzeb Siddiq al-Salafi
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2 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

Quran is a constitution itself but it is our inability to implement it in true sense. The European countries though have constitution but their constitution is not perfect one which human beings require.

If so, the Quran contains a constitution that is so blurred written that Muslum nations cannot agree on how to implement it. Maybe a contributing  reason for the conflicts in ME. 

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7 minutes ago, andres said:

If so, the Quran contains a constitution that is so blurred written that Muslum nations cannot agree on how to implement it. Maybe a contributing  reason for the conflicts in ME. 

It is clear but like devil deviated from God so did the people. It is not first time that people have fought over divine message,  they also opposed prophets such as jesus and moses so were they wrong or people were very mischievous? 

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19 hours ago, Kamaaluddeen al-Ismail said:

Democracy is a fallible system that is made by men for men. We don't want it. We want to establish the Shari'ah of Allaah. The rule is for Allaah. We want the laws that he the Most High has legislated for us. 

 

That is an honourable position to take. Not popular, but I get it. It's not as much the democracy as the degradation of the society. We all would like to live under righteous rule, but until we are judged accordingly and move on to it, we are earthlings.

There is still some skepticism as to how much of Shari'ah law was adapted from the ancient Prophets, and how much was "reorganized" to fit the demographics of the time. If the original law was upheld, then it wouldn't have had to be rewritten. If it required tweaking for the sake of the times, here we are 1400 some years later wondering where the internet and cell phones fit in.

I know what you fear, but it's already here and at your own fingertips. Which Imam can control your internet search? Democracy no longer matters. The only way to keep Shari'ah law now is outside of the reach of the internet.  You cannot.

The problem is the rest of the world doesn't like it. There are a couple reasons, but primarily stemming from the secular world thinking they have the right to free all people around the world from whatever they deem an infringement on "freedom", and propagated by the same evil that wants to be your friend, while all these kind hearted people thinking they are doing you a favour have no idea.

For the same reasons you want Shari'ah law, they don't. It is seen as barbaric and dominant tyranny over the same people it is meant to protect, and the internet will not stop turning everything into atrocities and wrenching at the hearts of the "civilized" world to put an end to it. Wars will continue until the land is desolate, until "Islam" is no longer seen as a threat.

That's the reality of the illusion.

The other reason is that history has proven that while an iron fist may control the people, it does not control their hearts. Democracy separates the sheep from the goats.

As much trouble as you can get into, "raves" happen in Iran, Iraq, Saudi, lebanon, etc. The nightclubs are already there. One picture circulated from the last round of wars in Iran showed a storefront destroyed, exposing a massive collection of CDs for sale. They were not CDs on how to live by Sharia law.

50% of the Syrian refugees to Canada were secular. Only 25% are Muslim, and so far, nobody is crying for Sharia law. No doubt some of the Muslims will fall prey to the Western machine, but the strong in heart will survive. They are for certain among God's people because the law is written in their hearts.  <<-- OT paraphrase. 

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26 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

It is clear but like devil deviated from God so did the people. It is not first time that people have fought over divine message,  they also opposed prophets such as jesus and moses so were they wrong or people were very mischievous? 

There is no consensus on who deviated from God and who did not. What is obvious however, is that nations where there is free speach, free political parties, good possibilities of education and medical care, in short the best places to live, are mainly to be found in democrasies. I believe this pleases God. 

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9 hours ago, andres said:

There is no consensus on who deviated from God and who did not. What is obvious however, is that nations where there is free speach, free political parties, good possibilities of education and medical care, in short the best places to live, are mainly to be found in democrasies. I believe this pleases God. 

Does that pleases God that those deomcracies maintain peace in their own countries and like to impose their own wrong thoughts onto the nations. Homosexuality and nudity and stuff like that which is wrongly misinterpreted as freedom which aims to destroy the morality of nations is it justified ? Is it justified that those nations who are democratic rant in their own countries without allowing Muslims to have their voice and rather it propagates Islamophobia and imply towards ISIS as true representative of Islam ? Is it justified for those democracies to trample the countries and kill the leaders whom their nations loved as Israel and USA hatched conspiracy to murder Gamal Abdul Nasir, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, Yasir Arafat and Martin Luther King so on so forth. Is it justified for these democracies to install their agents in the name of Islam and nationalism and then kill them like ISIS and Saddam Hussain.

Your democracies support the wicked and their interests and think little about their own nations. Your own nation is a target market for you, you sell weapons and destroy them by instilling wrong thoughts so do not tell me people are happy in west, if you want to see the happy ratio please watch the recent statistics which says that Asian people are more happier than western ones.

The democracies in your countries is laid upon the blood of many innocent people and it is not a democracy but Devilocracy.  

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3 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

Does that pleases God that those deomcracies maintain peace in their own countries and like to impose their own wrong thoughts onto the nations. Homosexuality and nudity and stuff like that which is wrongly misinterpreted as freedom which aims to destroy the morality of nations is it justified ? Is it justified that those nations who are democratic rant in their own countries without allowing Muslims to have their voice and rather it propagates Islamophobia and imply towards ISIS as true representative of Islam ? Is it justified for those democracies to trample the countries and kill the leaders whom their nations loved as Israel and USA hatched conspiracy to murder Gamal Abdul Nasir, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, Yasir Arafat and Martin Luther King so on so forth. Is it justified for these democracies to install their agents in the name of Islam and nationalism and then kill them like ISIS and Saddam Hussain.

Your democracies support the wicked and their interests and think little about their own nations. Your own nation is a target market for you, you sell weapons and destroy them by instilling wrong thoughts so do not tell me people are happy in west, if you want to see the happy ratio please watch the recent statistics which says that Asian people are more happier than western ones.

The democracies in your countries is laid upon the blood of many innocent people and it is not a democracy but Devilocracy.  

I agree with mych of what you say. But. In democrasies there is an open debate about what is wrong and right. Many democrasies did not participate in the invasion of Irak. Some Muslim ones did. Historically Christian and Muslim nations have fought against each other and also internally causing the blood of many innocent people. At present the Syrian regime and Muslim terririst groups are most active. This does not change the fact that democrasies are the most prosperous nations. The stronger democrasies have the power to  invade the less developed undemocratic nations. Sometimes, if not almost always, the result have not been successful.

Let me add that many homosexuals in my country today are well respected people, contributing to society. You may believe they should hang. But that is only because you believe everything that is written in te Quran. Very few Swedes do.

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2 hours ago, andres said:

I agree with mych of what you say. But. In democrasies there is an open debate about what is wrong and right. Many democrasies did not participate in the invasion of Irak. Some Muslim ones did. Historically Christian and Muslim nations have fought against each other and also internally causing the blood of many innocent people. At present the Syrian regime and Muslim terririst groups are most active. This does not change the fact that democrasies are the most prosperous nations. The stronger democrasies have the power to  invade the less developed undemocratic nations. Sometimes, if not almost always, the result have not been successful.

Let me add that many homosexuals in my country today are well respected people, contributing to society. You may believe they should hang. But that is only because you believe everything that is written in te Quran. Very few Swedes do.

Respected in what way ? I do not think they are respected, they are mentally ill and deteriorating your society. How many of these bad people have affected people and many have rendered infertile humans with sick mind. This is a disaster and if you go on encouraging such bad sin one day the birth rate in your countries will extinct. You know that this is against nature but unfortunately you are deceived by these wrong notions too. Their lives are useless and the purpose for which you people believe them to live by will do damage than benefiting your societies. 

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1 hour ago, Sindbad05 said:

Respected in what way ? I do not think they are respected, they are mentally ill and deteriorating your society. How many of these bad people have affected people and many have rendered infertile humans with sick mind. This is a disaster and if you go on encouraging such bad sin one day the birth rate in your countries will extinct. You know that this is against nature but unfortunately you are deceived by these wrong notions too. Their lives are useless and the purpose for which you people believe them to live by will do damage than benefiting your societies. 

Against nature? Well, maybe. Homosexuality always have existed, not only among humans, also among animals. Still now we are too many humans on earth. How come? Because homosexuals always have been a small minority. Around 3%, not increasing, not diminishing. All over the world.

Not respected? Not in Iran where they hang them, but in the "free world" homosexuals are increasingly accepted. Would you not agree that Sir Elton John is a well respected man in Britain? What evil has he done to others? 

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25 minutes ago, andres said:

Against nature? Well, maybe. Homosexuality always have existed, not only among humans, also among animals. Still now we are too many humans on earth. How come? Because homosexuals always have been a small minority. Around 3%, not increasing, not diminishing. All over the world.

Not respected? Not in Iran where they hang them, but in the "free world" homosexuals are increasingly accepted. Would you not agree that Sir Elton John is a well respected man in Britain? What evil has he done to others? 

Where have you seen among animals dude? 

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27 minutes ago, andres said:

Against nature? Well, maybe. Homosexuality always have existed, not only among humans, also among animals. Still now we are too many humans on earth. How come? Because homosexuals always have been a small minority. Around 3%, not increasing, not diminishing. All over the world.

Not respected? Not in Iran where they hang them, but in the "free world" homosexuals are increasingly accepted. Would you not agree that Sir Elton John is a well respected man in Britain? What evil has he done to others? 

Where have you seen among animals dude? 

And secondly it's not in Iran but in Islam too.

Thirdly, I think you are speaking of Elton John, even if devil visits your countries and provides you a timely benefit, you may will respect his opinion too on the plea of free-world. But to tell you truth, it is not a free world but world that is slave of wishes.

Islam does not regards wrong wishes which may be inhumane and catastrophic unlike free world norms which does whatever no matter right and wrongs.

 

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@andres

You know what about animals, if a father kisses son out of fatherly love among animals you say  "Oh! Look at that they are having SEX".

You know that it's a bad habit because it is ruining many people and halting production process so you are supporting an evil and whoever supports an evil is can only be evil. You freedom without limits will destroy you. 

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42 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

@andres

You know what about animals, if a father kisses son out of fatherly love among animals you say  "Oh! Look at that they are having SEX".

You know that it's a bad habit because it is ruining many people and halting production process so you are supporting an evil and whoever supports an evil is can only be evil. You freedom without limits will destroy you. 

Calgary's mayor is gay. Just titled the best mayor in the world. Not out of the closet because he's also a Muslim so can't openly admit to it, but you can see the flames in his stride.. 

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58 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Where have you seen among animals dude? 

And secondly it's not in Iran but in Islam too.

Thirdly, I think you are speaking of Elton John, even if devil visits your countries and provides you a timely benefit, you may will respect his opinion too on the plea of free-world. But to tell you truth, it is not a free world but world that is slave of wishes.

Islam does not regards wrong wishes which may be inhumane and catastrophic unlike free world norms which does whatever no matter right and wrongs.

 

Google homosexuality among animals. There are plenty of litterature. I am surprised yoy did not know. 

Yes, I was using Sir Elton John as an example. The reason was that the very title "Sir" proves he is a respected man. Or do you believe the Queen did not know he was married to a man?

You may believe non-muslim countries to be a cathastrophe. Take a look at the world. The ME are in a mess, and its population trying to escape to Europe. Except for the Israelis that live in the only democrasy in ME.

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28 minutes ago, andres said:

Google homosexuality among animals. There are plenty of litterature. I am surprised yoy did not know. 

Yes, I was using Sir Elton John as an example. The reason was that the very title "Sir" proves he is a respected man. Or do you believe the Queen did not know he was married to a man?

You may believe non-muslim countries to be a cathastrophe. Take a look at the world. The ME are in a mess, and its population trying to escape to Europe. Except for the Israelis that live in the only democrasy in ME.

well, I googled it but I did not think that you read my next comment after that. Like people did not came to admit that Universe was created and many Athiests gave theories that it did not came into creation and that theory failed, I believe that this theory of yours will soon be called as fake, you know why ? because nature says it eliminates the process of production which is obviously an evil thought. Do read my comment about the Son of Placid  Yeah your countries even allow title of "Sir" to devil as well as you allow Satanist to follow religion of Satanism.

@Son of Placid Yeah he may be successful in this life but is failed in the next one. You say he is a Muslim and then say he is a gay. Well, Islam turns anyone out of its fold who says he or she is gay or lesbian. 

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1 hour ago, Sindbad05 said:

.....I believe that this theory of yours will soon be called as fake, you know why ? because nature says it eliminates the process of production which is obviously an evil thought.....

You believe so because the Quran say so, not because nature says so. Nature does not say humankind will vanish due to homosexuality. Fact is, despite homosexuality, the world is overpopulated. I do not believe the Quran always is correct, that is why I do not agree with you.

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Just now, andres said:

You believe so because the Quran say so, not because nature says so. Nature does not say humankind will vanish due to homosexuality. Fact is, despite homosexuality, the world is overpopulated. I do not believe the Quran always is correct, that is why I do not agree with you.

Quran tells about nature, those who are homosexuals, they will be forgotten soon. And in the hereafter, they will be put to hell. 

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33 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Quran tells about nature, those who are homosexuals, they will be forgotten soon. And in the hereafter, they will be put to hell. 

As long as the world exist, homos also will. Let us wait and see what happens thereafter. More urgent is that the Muslim world develops into democrasies that live in peace with eachother. 

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29 minutes ago, andres said:

As long as the world exist, homos also will. Let us wait and see what happens thereafter. More urgent is that the Muslim world develops into democrasies that live in peace with eachother. 

Agree on developing a suitable political infrastructure for the Muslim countries. And hope that West may learn from the Islam too. 

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11 hours ago, andres said:

Yes, I was using Sir Elton John as an example. The reason was that the very title "Sir" proves he is a respected man. Or do you believe the Queen did not know he was married to a man?

1. As far as Islam is concerned, it is irrelevant that the Queen and the rest of the world treat Sir Elton with respect. We believe homosexuality always was and always will be a sin. If anyone wishes to accept homosexuality, they are welcome to do so - Her Majesty included. 

2. At one point, I think you said that some animals are homosexual. Well, animals are not subject to a code of conduct. So it doesn't matter. 

For human beings, homosexuality will ALWAYS be a sin.

3. You also said somewhere that Muslims would love to see homosexuals hanged. Not quite! 

Unless the element of abuse is there, homosexuality is a personal sin.

Islamic law would ONLY apply if the person is not careful enough to keep it to himself.

More importantly, while Islam emphasises the propagation of 'good deeds' and the discouragement of 'evil actions', the ordinary man has no further authority. Even the court's authority is limited.

And in case of a suspicion, unless abuse or something serious is suspected, the court is not expected to engage in a witch hunt. 

4. As far as God is concerned, with repentance and remorse, every sin is forgivable.

As for this life, there is a famous instance on record when Imam Ali is believed to have forgiven a man who had engaged in a homosexual activity.  This man had expressed great remorse for his actions. In other words, the court is also entitled to pass over some infringements, depending on the circumstances.

5. This point may have nothing to do with what you have said.

Homosexuals who keep their evil deeds to themselves and feel remorse and shame for their actions have a very good chance of forgiveness.

But for those who brag about their homosexuality, such as modern day gays, the chance of forgiveness is significantly reduced. It is not zero because God's mercy cannot be encompassed. But bragging about a sinful behaviour is tantamount to defiance. An 'out of the closet' gay man (or woman) is effectively saying that (he or she) couldn't be bothered what God expects from him (or her).

That is defiance. 

6 And again, this may have nothing to do with what you have said.

But it is important to point out that the view that gays are genetically inclined will NOT be accepted as an excuse for homosexuality. At least NOT in Islam.  Never! 

And as long as people keep their actions to themselves and do not abuse or harm others, they are not in danger.

Not here!

They will be taken care of in the Afterlife.            

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Hi Baqar

You follow the rules you believe God has set in the Quran. I believe the Quran is a human product of the 7th century,  but unlike you I am certain God does not like all rules in the Quran. I try to follow the rules I believe pleases God. I do not believe that God is horrified by human or animal homosexuality as long as the couple treat eachother with love and behave as good citizens. Iranians can of course not see this function, but in the free world we can. Except for the inability to have children of their own (which also some normal couples have) there is no difference between couples of same and different sex. Because of your strong belief in the Quran this will probably not change your conservative view, but so be it. 

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1 hour ago, andres said:

Hi Baqar

You follow the rules you believe God has set in the Quran. I believe the Quran is a human product of the 7th century,  but unlike you I am certain God does not like all rules in the Quran. I try to follow the rules I believe pleases God. I do not believe that God is horrified by human or animal homosexuality as long as the couple treat eachother with love and behave as good citizens. Iranians can of course not see this function, but in the free world we can. Except for the inability to have children of their own (which also some normal couples have) there is no difference between couples of same and different sex. Because of your strong belief in the Quran this will probably not change your conservative view, but so be it. 

Andre, my brother, Muslims believe god is All-Powerful, Self-Sufficient and Peerless and that He wouldn't do something so degrading like walking on earth, and because God Who is Holy and Mighty does not place Himself in the uterus of a woman to be passed out the same exit which a woman urinates and passes blood from to live in the limited body of a man who needs to eat, drink, sleep and answer the call of nature because it's against His Majesty. Every human being is born with an innate inclination to the Oneness of God, and if you reflect over your thoughts, you will see that this is true. If you truly listen to your heart you will know that every moment of your life your conscience tells you this. This is why whenever a boy or girl, man or woman is afflicted with a calamity, he or she immediately discards all thoughts and only the thought of God remains. No one can deny this and those who are reading this have no doubt experience of this, or unless for some ill reason, would not like to admit it. As the Arabic word 'Islam' pretty much means submission to God, which is peace, it can be said that every child is born a Muslim. This is why Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be upon him) said, "No child is born except on the fitra (nature) and then his parents make him Jewish, Christian or Zoroastrian". It is the parents of the child that make him or her of another faith or as the child grows and becomes more aware of his or her surroundings, he or she is influenced by the environment. If you've been researching religions of the world then you would know that every prophet said the same thing in a different way. What Jesus, peace be upon him said was only for his time and no other, this is because he was not sent for the entire world and for all times to come but only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel as he himself said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." - Matthew 15: Ask yourself, if any of the prophets throughout history didn’t say that God could only be reached by following them then why would people follow them or believe them to be true? All prophets have said the same thing but it was limited to a certain period. It was only Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him who was sent for the entire world and for all times to come, and who Jesus himself foretold the advent of. The Christians have misunderstood Jesus and have put him in the place of God although Jesus has never claimed to be God. For example, Jesus said, “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and that the Father is in me?” - John 14:9-10. Jesus isn’t claiming to be God, what he’s saying is that because he’s so in love with God and has adopted Divine attributes like love, mercy, compassion and so on to such a great degree, God has such relationship with him that it’s as if He manifests His Godhead through him and he has become like a mirror for beholding God. That is why Prophet Muhammad also said "Whoever has seen me, has seen the Truth". This is what happens when a person achieves such high rank, but unfortunately people don’t realize how far a person can reach in nearness to God, they don’t bother to try themselves and if someone else does he or she is either denigrated or is deified and put in the place of God, which is what the Christians have done with Jesus.  Each one of us has great potential and can reach far in nearness to God, you should never think that you or anyone else can never attain such an exalted rank. All of us belong to God and He desires that everyone should try and adopt His attributes as best they can. When a person does this then that beautiful Creator of ours can be seen in his or her countenance.  Our God is Ever-Living and is not dead unlike yours who you claim to be God even though your god cried out to God for help saying "Eli Eli lama sabachthani" (My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? - Matthew 27:46) when he was on the cross, where you believe your god died an accursed death. God forbid! How can you believe such a thing about your Creator? God Himself says,

"And they say, 'The Gracious God has taken unto Himself a son.' Assuredly, you have done a most monstrous thing! The heavens might well-nigh burst thereat, and the earth cleave asunder, and the mountains fall down in pieces, because they ascribe a son to the Gracious God, whereas it becomes not the Gracious God to take unto Himself a son." - 19:89-93, Holy Qur’an

And we hold Jesus (peace be upon him) in higher regard than Christians, because we don't believe that he, God forbid, died an accursed death. May god guide you Andre, peace be with you my friend.

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2 hours ago, baqar said:

Hi Andres

Is it any different in any other scripture? 

 

Jesus never demands penalties, but naturally the first Christians, who were Jews and, since the New testament was not yet writte, only had the Jewish Bible with the laws in there. Moder Jews bo longer follow all thise laws, and since the Jewish Bible was written witin a period of maybe 500 years, some older laws are being modified by younger scribes. The oldest known semitic law collection is the Babylonian from 18th century BC. Even if they are 1000 years older than the Torah, and from a pagan society, they are not very unlike those of the Old Testament and the Quran.

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3 hours ago, Bazzi_ said:

 

You are so right that our consciense is very important. To me, even more than my Bible. With this view I will never become a Muslim like you. I do not think I will be a more Europeanlike Muslim either. We are different, God created us so. Most people inherit their religion from their parents.

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6 hours ago, Bazzi_ said:

Nice message right up until the trinitarian dig. Neither Andres nor I are trinitarians.

Trinitarian Christians tend to see Jesus as 100% man and 100% God, even though the three are continually separated by description and function in the NT.  

The "Spirit" that was in Jesus goes back to the beginning of the OT. This "light" (first described as the Word, in reference to Jesus, in the first chapter of John) was "created" in the third verse of Gen 1. (God said "Be" and it was). 

This leaves Jesus with more going on than your average man, but in His own words, God remained in Heaven.

 

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