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In the Name of God بسم الله
Haji 2003

Donald J. Trump [OFFICIAL THREAD]

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Trump's foreign policy is blanket xenophobia and he changes his positions so frequently you can't be sure what's going to do.  Yes he's criticized Saudi Arabia and wants to limit US involvement in the Middle East so in that sense he's better than Hillary who's BFFs with Israel and Arab dictators, but again there's no assurance there because he's so unpredictable.

 

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12 hours ago, David66 said:

Hello,

 

Please cite your source for this claim.  Thanks.

Please clarify this sentence.  What "matters" are you referring to?

All the Best,

David

                                      :bismillah: 

                                      :salam: 

Hillary is more likely to be the one that abuses power to invade more countries, she said that she wants a no fly zone in Syria = big regional war.

Salam.

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9 hours ago, David66 said:

Hello,

I am surprised I have to answer this question on a religious message board.  Yes it does matter.  Making damaging false claims about another persons actions is slander.  It is a crime, it is immoral and considered a sin in all religions I am familiar with. 

So, while you and Gaius may not like Trump, that is why it matters.

All the Best,

David

The reason why I said "does it even matter" is because his saying toward Muslims and Islam is very negative and it imply his hatred, even if he have not said it openly in public. It would be very different if we claim his hatred toward Islam when he have never said any negative thing about it.

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18 hours ago, allsayyidsareahlulbayt! said:

 

perhaps trump could be convinced to ban sunnism, shut down sunni masjids, stop sunni immagartion, rather to blanket all muslims under this banner.

Salaam Allsayyidsareahlulbayt!,

Good grief!

Do you want that done to Shiaism, Shia masjids, and Shia immigration???? I honestly can't believe I'm reading this.

Do you not believe in the Golden Rule, to do to others as you would have them do to you?

I'm not Catholic. I'm Protestant. However, Catholics are my brothers and sisters in Christ. We just believe differently. I have no desire to ban Catholicism, shut down Catholic churches, and stop Catholic immigration.

I'm ashamed that Catholics have faced discrimination in the USA. That's unacceptable and is disobeying Jesus Christ's commands to love each other!

Shias and Sunnis both believe in Allah, in Muhammad, and in the Qur'an. Whether y'all like it or not, y'all are family. I mean honestly, what would Muhammad say?

There's a saying in Christian circles: What Would Jesus Do? Jesus prayed for His followers to be united. Divisions are man-made; not ordered by God.

Christians should not support a man who wants to do to others what he would not have done to his family. Trump identifies as a Christian. His Mom is an immigrant, as well as his paternal grandparents. The USA graciously allowed his Mom and grandparents to immigrate; they didn't discriminate against them. It is evil and wrong for him to discriminate against Muslims.

Christians don't like being discriminated against by Muslims. It is thus hypocritical and evil, as well as disobedience to Jesus, for Christians to discriminate against Muslims or anyone else for that matter!

Yes, I'm upset. :( I can't believe this. A Muslim advocating for other Muslims to be banned.... :(

Some of my Sunni friends in the USA don't believe that Shias are truly Muslim, yet I've never heard them want Shias to be banned from the USA! They do want the USA to properly vet people, so we don't get "crazy fanatics" in, but they are referring to Daesh when they call people "crazy fanatics" who they believe are kafir, which from what I understand is a stronger term than "not true Muslim."

Peace and God bless you, and may God help the Sunni Muslims and the Shia Muslims to live in peace and love each other, as well as everyone else in this earth we share!

 

 

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12 hours ago, David66 said:

Hello,I am surprised I have to answer this question on a religious message board.  Yes it does matter.  Making damaging false claims about another persons actions is slander.  It is a crime, it is immoral and considered a sin in all religions I am familiar with. 

Salam David66,

Out of curiosity, how do you identify yourself? If you identify as a Christian, how would you feel if you were wanting to immigrate to another country, but a potential presidential candidate wants to ban you for the simple fact that you are a Christian. Do you believe that person loves you?

Let's say I tell you "I love you, but I don't want you here." Would you believe I truly love you? I wouldn't. Love doesn't push people away or build walls.

Christians are supposed to be known for their love. Trump identifies as a Christian, but he is not following the Good Samaritan parable Jesus Christ taught when he commanded his followers to love their neighbors. Instead of love, Trump proposes bans and walls. :(

This is in direct opposition to Jesus Christ, who Trump claims to follow since he identifies as a Christian.

Trump is inciting walls of hostility; both the physical wall dividing Christians and neighbors on the border with México, and the physical wall of wanting to prevent more Muslims from entering the USA. Jesus Christ however destroys walls, including the "dividing wall of hostility":

Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 

remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, - Ephesians 2:11-13 (NIV)

 

Quote

 

So, while you and Gaius may not like Trump, that is why it matters.

All the Best,

David

 

I love Trump, but I 100% disagree with his words.  He is disobeying Jesus Christ. His words are hurting my neighbors: both my Mexican neighbors and my Muslim neighbors.

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady

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18 hours ago, Meesum_Mtl said:

It means that you've taken it too far, "Sunnism" isn't a problem, they are Muslims just like Shia's. We should not ban Sunnis, Sunni masjids or Sunni immigration, they are not the problem. The problem is the radicals which are on both sides, whether they are Sunni or Shia. A better way to tackle the situation would be to ban the works that lead or promote radicalism. Furthermore, by categorizing everyone under one roof based on their religion and by segregating them even though they have done nothing wrong will only add fuel to the fire and increase the support for these radicals.

Salam Meesum_Mtl,

Excellent post.

I feel better now after reading your post. I was really upset.

Peace and God bless you

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"love thy neighbour as you love thyself " - this verse right here has been the divine message from all prophets of God it is so simple and elegant that all of creation has understood it except for the human being , the day the human being can show mercy and compassion to all of creation that is the day they will be able to inherit the divine light of mercy for themselves ,  this includes showing mercy not just to the human beings but to the land animals , the sea creatures , the birds in the sky , the various plants and trees , and every other living organism on this planet is our beloved neighbour , The Quran begins with the verse "In the name of God the most beneficent the ever merciful " - too forgive and show mercy truly is divine and being tolerant is one of the principals of our faith , may peace be with all of you and may God allow us too become tolerant of eachother

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asa,

 

all that matters to me is protecting my shia brethren christainlady, I saw my family slaughtered by the calamity of Thursday until now, the sunnis are destroying the image of islam, we need to stop playing brother brother with them, the cult of umar considers our blood lawful, our women as slaves, our aqaid as batil, etc.

all leaders other than marja, urafa, and masumin are taghut.

however trump is less of a taghut than hillarly and we may be able to use him to crush our enemies, the enemiey of my enemy is sometimes my friend.

cruz, Rubio, and Hillary represent the agenda of the arab dicators.

the sunnis are killings shia in the prison system, there are big tensions and beating in our arab, and pakstani "brothers" masjids in ny, la etc.

our marja openly say their prayers are batil in an idirect way by mentioning however says amin or folds his hands his salah is batil.

the marja given fatwa on level islam for lowest le vel of halal, if the people have taqwa they get stricter. fadlallah allowed French bread but didn't wear it etc.

Fatimah Zahra as has said " there is no unity expect under the banner of waliyah ali ibn abu talib "

imam sadiq as said " whoever rejects one of us rejects all of us "

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6 minutes ago, 2113 said:

:bismillah:

:salam:

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/05/did_donald_trump_just_soften_his_muslim_ban_propos.html

How about now? I do think he is the lesser of evils when it concerns him and Hillary Clinton.

:ws:

:salam:

I wouldn't get my hopes up on pure speculation, Trump is very unpredictable. Not a good quality in being a leader in my humble opinion. I think Trump and Clinton are the greater two evils and Sanders is the lesser of the two evils from my perspective.

:ws:

 

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:bismillah:

:salam:

12 minutes ago, allsayyidsareahlulbayt! said:

ws,

it would be nice if sanders had a chance.

 

I ask this question with the utmost sincerity and respect, I am neutral and don't prefer any candidate specifically, what policies of Bernie Sanders do you support? You are not the first supporter of his that I have noticed and I have always wanted to ask the question of why.

:ws:

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4 minutes ago, 2113 said:

:bismillah:

:salam:

I ask this question with the utmost sincerity and respect, I am neutral and don't prefer any candidate specifically, what policies of Bernie Sanders do you support? You are not the first supporter of his that I have noticed and I have always wanted to ask the question of why.

:ws:

1-Bernie Sanders time and time again has said that he will not allow Israel to act as they are doing without consequences. He has also worked with Noam Chomsky before in showing the unjust actions of Israel against innocent people.

2- Bernie Sanders is not a war president; he is pro peace and his policies and voting have indicated this. Clinton is a Zionist  extremist. She also voted for the war in Iraq. The only reason she is winning is because of the black and female vote, and this is not indicative of actual approval of policy. When I vote for someone because I think they are going to do me a favor or because I'm black and the candidate is black, this is not show the will of the people in regards to policy.

3- Bernie Sanders economic policy will redistribute the wealth again into the lower strata of the class system, he will regulate big companies more, and he will stop them from avoiding paying taxes. Big companies pay less taxes than waiters do percentage-wise he says that has got to stop.

There are many more reasons, but the biggest are : Trump is a retard, and Clinton is a snake.

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Hello Christianlady,

I hope you are doing well.

 

6 hours ago, Christianlady said:

Salam David66,

Out of curiosity, how do you identify yourself? If you identify as a Christian, how would you feel if you were wanting to immigrate to another country, but a potential presidential candidate wants to ban you for the simple fact that you are a Christian. Do you believe that person loves you?

 

 

I love Trump, but I 100% disagree with his words.  He is disobeying Jesus Christ. His words are hurting my neighbors: both my Mexican neighbors and my Muslim neighbors.

Peace and God bless you

As I mentioned in my response to Gaius, Trump is not calling for an immigration ban against any group.  He does advocate getting control of our borders to reduce the flow of illegal immigrants.  And, he has said immigration from some Muslim countries may need to be temporarily halted until we can better insure those immigrating are who they say the are.  I can understand why this would anger some but it is a current reality.   Read Gaius' links and you will get a better understanding of what Trump has and has not said. 

I realize you and many others do not like Donald Trump.  Even so, that does not justify lying about what he has said and his views.  Such lies about a person or group can take on a life of their own and have long term destructive effects.  Just crack open a history book for numerous examples.

And, you say Trump is "disobeying Jesus Christ."  Well who isn't?  Including you.  In Luke 18 verse 22 Jesus instructs those who want eternal life to sell everything they have and give to the poor and then follow him.  Obviously, you still have your computer.

All the Best,

David

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, David66 said:

And, you say Trump is "disobeying Jesus Christ."  Well who isn't?  Including you.  In Luke 18 verse 22 Jesus instructs those who want eternal life to sell everything they have and give to the poor and then follow him.  Obviously, you still have your computer.

^ According to a literal interpretation of Luke 18:22, that is. Christianlady is right, no need to get snarky and rude with her. 

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Quote


As I mentioned in my response to Gaius, Trump is not calling for an immigration ban against any group.  

Well that's a lie. He clearly stated he wants a temporary ban on Muslims entering the country. You yourself admitted to that in another thread but now you're contradicting yourself.

I wrote...

 On 1/25/2016 at 6:03 PM, Abu-Jafar Herz said:
So you basically believe that we should essentially ban Muslims from coming into the United States?

You responded :

Quote

 

David66

Doesn't he have a point?  Why let people into the United States when an overwhelming majority of those people dislikes what the United States stands for?  Just look at many of the Shia Chat members.  They enjoy the freedom, stability and economic opportunity provided by the United States.  But, they rarely miss an opportunity to wish it harm and call for it's downfall.  On ShiaChat it is just words.  When does it become action? Do you let those that hate you and your family into your home?  It is not prudent. 

Even so, Trump did not call for blocking Muslims from entering the US indefinitely.  He did call for restricting entry until we can better insure radicals are not hiding amongst those that are looking for greater freedom and opportunity.


 

Banning people based upon religion goes against the constitution even those immigrants are not protected under the constitution. how so? Most visas into the united states are done with k-1 fiance or marriage/family visas. American citizens who wish to have their families join them in their country will lose that right simply because of religion, that is unconstitutional. 

Trump is a joke, let him go up against a lawyer in court and see how many of his laws will pass. Give me a break.

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17 hours ago, allsayyidsareahlulbayt! said:

asa,


all that matters to me is protecting my shia brethren christainlady,

Salam Allsayyidsareahlulbayt!,

Understood, but wanting the USA to ban Sunnis and shut down their masjids will not protect your family. It will just increase hatred against Muslims and among Muslims. Already, there is a lot of hatred in the world with some Non-Muslims hating Muslims and some Muslims hating other Muslims. :(

Quote

I saw my family slaughtered by the calamity of Thursday until now,

I am sorry. :( Horribly, people have been killing other people ever since Cain killed Abel. :(

Quote

the sunnis are destroying the image of islam,

I have Sunni friends who are not destroying the image of Islam. Most of my Sunni Muslim friends are from India who have immigrated to the USA. They are awesome people and I stand up for their rights. They invite me to Islam, and I appreciate that, cause I know they care about me. While I don't agree with their beliefs, I do 100% support their right to believe what they do, same as I 100% support the right of Shias too.

Quote

we need to stop playing brother brother with them,

Personally, I think one of the issues is that some Sunnis and some Shias are not acting like brothers to each other, which is the problem.

Quote

 

the cult of umar considers our blood lawful, our women as slaves, our aqaid as batil, etc.

all leaders other than marja, urafa, and masumin are taghut.

 

My Sunni Muslim friends don't kill Shias or enslave Shia women, nor do they kill Christians or enslave Christian women, or any other group. They live and let live, so there is hope that the Ummah will change.

Quote

however trump is less of a taghut than hillarly and we may be able to use him to crush our enemies,

Lol. That is very wishful thinking. Trump is not a toy or a tool. While I disagree with him in many areas, I do believe he is a very shrewd and intelligent man, bordering on genius. Personally, I believe he has the charisma and ability to grasp power to be the first dictator of the USA. :( I don't think that's a good thing, but definitely he's not going to be a puppet for the Shias...

Quote

the enemiey of my enemy is sometimes my friend.

Sometimes evil people use their enemies, and then they kill those they use when they are finished with them.

Quote

cruz, Rubio, and Hillary represent the agenda of the arab dicators.

Neither Cruz nor Rubio are in the race anymore.

Quote

 

the sunnis are killings shia in the prison system, there are big tensions and beating in our arab, and pakstani "brothers" masjids in ny, la etc.\ejects all of us "

 

Continuing to be enemies with your brother Muslims (the Sunni) is not the answer. Do you know how the Catholics and Protestants both of which are Christian groups, stopped persecuting and killing each other because of their differences?

1. They started listening to what Jesus Christ commanded, which includes the commands of loving each other and doing to each other what you would have others do to you. I don't want to be killed, so I don't kill. It's a very simple yet awesome strategy to live in peace and harmony with people who believe differently.

2. They realized it's much more productive to live in peace and agree to disagree. They put more emphasis in studying about the world around them, which helped bring about the Enlightenment Era that transformed Europe and the West into an invention machine, which led to other countries following their example.

So, instead of focusing on hating Sunnis, why not instead focus on making the world a better place along with Sunnis and other groups of people?

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady

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14 hours ago, David66 said:

Hello Christianlady,

I hope you are doing well.

Salam David,

Thanks. I hope you are doing well too. :)

Quote

As I mentioned in my response to Gaius, Trump is not calling for an immigration ban against any group.  He does advocate getting control of our borders to reduce the flow of illegal immigrants.  And, he has said immigration from some Muslim countries may need to be temporarily halted until we can better insure those immigrating are who they say the are. 

"Temporarily" halting Muslims from immigrating is an immigration ban.

I listen to Trump, and he flip flops so much it amazes me how loyal his followers are. While he said it was a joke, I do agree with Trump that he could shoot somebody and not lose voters, which is not a good sign.

Nobody is perfect. That is why it is so important to ask God for forgiveness and repent, which is what I do when I disobey Jesus Christ.

 A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

"Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. You know the commandments: ‘You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.’”

 “All these I have kept since I was a boy,” he said.

When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was very wealthy. Jesus looked at him and said, How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” - Luke 18:18-25 (NIV)

First of all, I'm not rich. Secondly, I'm not a ruler. I'm poor and am not in a position of governing authority. Thankfully, even poor people in the USA can use a laptop that is given to them. :)

Could you please answer my questions to you ? Thanks. For your convenience, I have copied them from my last post to you and also numbered them below:

1.) Out of curiosity, how do you identify yourself?

2.) If you identify as a Christian, how would you feel if you were wanting to immigrate to another country, but a potential presidential candidate wants to ban you for the simple fact that you are a Christian.

3.) Do you believe that person loves you?

Peace and God bless you

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15 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

^ According to a literal interpretation of Luke 18:22, that is.

Salam Gaius l. Caesar,

I personally believe the interpretation of Luke 18:22 and the definition of selling "everything" is found here: (I boldened some.)

"All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus.

And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.

 Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas (which means “son of encouragement”), sold a field he owned and brought the money and put it at the apostles’ feet. - Acts 4:32-37 (NIV)

Personally, I believe more Christians today should follow the example of the early believers! :)

Quote

Christianlady is right, no need to get snarky and rude with her. 

Thanks for standing up for me, my brother in humanity! :)

I didn't consider his statement rude because it's a legitimate and thought-provoking point. While I'm not rich, I can definitely do more to help the poor, so it's a good reminder.

Interestingly, while Sanders is not a Christian, his ideas are more in line with the "voluntary socialism" experienced by the early Christians than Trump's ideas. Very interesting...

Peace and God bless you

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Hello,

This is really a very simple concept.  I would assume most of us have front doors on our homes.  And, at night at least, we keep these doors locked.  Does this mean you hate those outside your door?  No, but, it does mean you want to control access to your home as much as possible for the safety of yourself and your family. 

Trump wants better control of our borders and more accountability in the immigration process.  And, a large number of Americans agree with this.  Including the National Border Patrol Council.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/03/30/breaking-national-border-patrol-council-endorses-trump-for-president/

To Christianlady, I grew up in a Christian family.  But, I am agnostic.  I do not need promises of streets of gold or hundreds of servants to bribe me into being a good person.  I do my best to make moral decisions simply because I believe it is the right thing to do and is best for the society that I live in.

All the Best,

David

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30 minutes ago, David66 said:

This is really a very simple concept.  I would assume most of us have front doors on our homes.  And, at night at least, we keep these doors locked.  Does this mean you hate those outside your door?  No, but, it does mean you want to control access to your home as much as possible for the safety of yourself and your family. 

 

Understandable, but the analogy does not compute with Donald Trump saying ban all Muslims, temporarily or not. I wouldn't have a problem with Trump if he was more carefully with his words about banning Muslims. (e.g. work with Homeland Security to deport anyone with known extremist ties, regardless of sect.) Personally, I don't want to see Sunnis or Shias banned from the US, just because of the monstrous actions of an extremist minority. Besides it would go against the very foundations of our laws in the Constitution to do so. That's my beef with Trump and people like you who agree with him. What he claims in his books and website is far, far different from what he is filmed saying to the public who attend his rallies.This is the second time that the GOP decided to field a batch of extremists for the Presidential nomination and the situation is a lot worse than 2012. The explosive violence at Trump's rallies are unheard of and it doesn't sit well with me.  While I know Trump is not a murderous dictator like Hitler, his ability to incite violence and charismatic way of telling the people what they want to hear and exploiting fears and insecurities is not unlike Hitler. 

 

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46 minutes ago, David66 said:

Just watch the video.  It will give you an idea of what the main stream media does not report

 

 

 

This is a black guy posting on LL??? LL - the home of amberlamps and didundonufin? I think he must be a sucker for 'outreach'. 

 

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3 hours ago, David66 said:

Hello,

Just watch the video.  It will give you an idea of what the main stream media does not report

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=827_1458659908

All the Best,

David

To be honest, I have seem this video before and my first impressions were: "This man has been brought with a nice, fat paycheck to make Trump sound normal." I could be totally wrong about this but something seems very off about this video to me. I haven't trusted the GOP since 2008,  when McCain nominated Sarah "Blunderwoman" Palin for Vice-President. The fact they keep finding freaks to represent the United States as President is to me, a sign that they are not ready to lead this nation and need a serious reform. We need less Reagans, Bushes and Trumps and more Eisenhowers. Now, that was a man who could skillfully lead a nation and get things done. Guess what, Eisenhower was Republican. Whatever happened to THAT Republican Party?

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4 hours ago, David66 said:

Are you saying his testimony is invalid because he is black or because he posted on liveleak.com?

Since blacks, Brazilians, Chinese and Indians come way below 'muzzies' on Liveleakers' hate/abuse list I think I can put myself in his shoes. I would not put up a video on Liveleak saying that I'd attended a Trump rally and found it to be less Islamophobic than I'd expected.

I'd only get abuse.

Just the way he gets called a chimp (and worse) for his troubles.

Now since he'd be well aware of this, I'd say he has a high toleration for abuse. And it is that combination of his race where he is posting and the context that makes his testimony less valid.

IMHO.

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^ Hello,

I am sure you and Gaius are correct.  The video is probably the result of a Mossad/CIA/MI6 operation that, as Gaius said, slipped this man a "fat paycheck."  I really should stop being so gullible.

All the Best,

David

PS: The video is too file to even post a link to.  But, if you want to see some of the behavior the Arizona police officer describes, google "Mexican boy heckles Trump supporters."

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31 minutes ago, David66 said:

^ Hello,

I am sure you and Gaius are correct.  The video is probably the result of a Mossad/CIA/MI6 operation that, as Gaius said, slipped this man a "fat paycheck."  I really should stop being so gullible.

All the Best,

David

PS: The video is too file to even post a link to.  But, if you want to see some of the behavior the Arizona police officer describes, google "Mexican boy heckles Trump supporters."

Yeah well its not.

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46 minutes ago, David66 said:

I am sure you and Gaius are correct.  The video is probably the result of a Mossad/CIA/MI6 operation that, as Gaius said, slipped this man a "fat paycheck."

 

No.

There are other black people who have written about their experiences e.g. on Quora and they've been mixed i.e. things were ok in the auditorium, but they received insults in the parking lot.

The undeniable fact is that Trump does attract some people who are very xenophobic.

And I don't hear him say anything that tells them he does not want them.

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7 hours ago, David66 said:

The video is probably the result of a Mossad/CIA/MI6 operation

Um no, Mossad/CIA/ MI6 don't care about some buffoon with crazy hair, much less some black guy's opinion of him. They have more pressing matters on their hands. On the other hand, you know who cares this guy's opinion?  Donald Trump and his cronies. This video is a public relations move and again, smells of bribery and political corruption. Please don't paint us as a group of loony conspiracy ding-bats again in the future, thanks in advance.

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