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In the Name of God بسم الله

Donald J. Trump [OFFICIAL THREAD]

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5 minutes ago, Ruq said:

That language is really not helpful. Having the potential for personhood doesnt make a thing a person, so people have to discern a reasonable line in the sand. There has been differing opinion Islamically, but a fetus is not considered to be equal with the mother and 4 months seems to be the furthest line in the sand before abortion would be considered a crime.

 

Please provide some source for your statements. From narrations, fatawa, or from reason (not time-bound, popular "reason" but pure reason). In what way is a fetus not a person, in the Islamic worldview? Which scholars determined abortions prior to four months to be OK? And what kind of reasoning did they use? 

 

I think the vocabulary I used is spot on. When the pagan Ayrabs used to bury their daughters alive, that was infanticide. They didnt want daughters so they rubbed them out. The vast majority of people who get abortions do not do so because their lives are at risk; they do so because they do not want the kid. It is their "get out of jail free" card; their decaf coffee; their sugar-free baslogh. They want to live the life they live without facing consequences.

 

This is what abortion represents, as a cultural phenomenon. And it's all shrouded in the language of "human rights" to become immune from any kind of legitimate critical assessment. A thousand years from now, people wont see you as being enlightened, sister. They will see you as no more than a desert Ayrab who is OK with kid-killing.

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Highly redacted. Of course.  

This photo should become a classic over time:

I just love these words of Imam Ali (as) subhanallah, as it makes me realize how lost these tyrants are "Remember that these worldly-minded people are like barking dogs and hungry and ferocious b

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@baradar_jackson Most of the research i did on this issue (not extensive) showed a consensus that the soul doesnt enter the body until after the 3 stages of development. There may be disagreement on how long those stages are but 120 days is the number ive most often seen quoted and any justified reason for abortion can be carried out before that point.

I agree that abortion is a cultural phenomena of course (natures abortion is a miscarriage not a medical procedure), but that doesnt mean that all instances of it are wrong. I'm not a supporter of it in the sense of it being a 'right', i find that language very hard to justify  and i dont know what such language is predicated on. That said, if an abortion is an option, i'm willing to believe that it is sometimes the right thing to do, but not inorder that people can avoid taking responsibility or to control demographics.

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Well, my Church is pretty convinced that life begins at conception and no abortion is allowed unless to save the life of the mother. So any support among Catholics  for legal abortion comes from wanting to save the life of the mother so she won't skewer herself with a coat-hanger or go to a back-street abortionist who will do pretty much the same thing. 

However, unplanned pregnancies of the unmarried kind are no longer considered so bad any more, so we have babies popping out all over.

Interestingly, some people don't like the woman any more for carrying her fetus to term than they do if she aborts it.

Go figure.

 

Edited by LeftCoastMom
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I must admit I have struggled with this issue with the limited time I have spent pondering it.  It is a very complicated matter as there are conflicting rights involved and various stages of fetus development etc, not to mention the role of the state in all this.  I can to some extent sympathize with both sides.  Despite the cases of neglect there must be countless cases out there where deciding to abort must be the most traumatic of experiences given the natural bond between a mother and her potential child.  To label them all as baby-killers does not help.  At the same time knowing that countless fetuses are needlessly abandoned is heart-wrenching. 

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On 3/19/2016 at 0:36 PM, sharinganMahdi said:

Wsalam, And wow ! that puts a twist on things , makes a lot of sense why Tyson is siding with trump .... I knew about his convictions but didn't know that trump played a role in it , haha I learned something new today :) , jakhallah and may peace and blessings of God be with you

Peace SharinganMahdi,

Aye. :) If I understand correctly, wrestling promotes a "brotherhood" of sorts. While Trump is not a professional wrestler, he is a huge fan of wrestling and the $ it brings.

I personally don't understand why people would spend $ to watch a wrestling match... my hubby doesn't. He is a gym freak but would rather spend money on action packed adventure trips than pay to watch some men fight each other.

Thanks. I appreciate it. :) May the peace and blessings of God be with you too!

 

 

 

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On 3/19/2016 at 2:25 AM, 12reasons4truth. said:

In the name of the Creator, who created the universe!

Walaykum Asalam my ChristianLady sister.

Peace Brother 12Reasons4truth,

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Dear sister, we should always love those who love God Almighty no matter what religion he believes in, Because people who love and believe in God, they will never do bad things to our follow human beings.  

Amen!

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Fear those who show their faces as a believer in God (to fool the mass) but do the total opposite which incite hate, division and genocide.  Trump does not even have an ounce of Christianity in his blood, I bet you anything he doesn't know any part of the Bible by heart!

Agreed.

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So we can not judge him by what he claims to be( a Christian) we can surely judge him by what he has done as a Christian to say that what he does is unchristian of him.

Well, God is his Judge same as God is our Judge. However, we can take note of what he does and consider if Trump or any self-proclaimed Christian (including me) is displaying fruit as a Christian.

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control (Galatians 5:22-23 ESV). These characteristics however are not what Trump displays.

While Christians are imperfect mortals same as every other human, when a Christian fails in displaying the above traits, a true Christian asks God for forgiveness and repents, striving in a personal inward "jihad" of sorts to have a clean heart and a clean mouth for God's glory.

Jesus Christ clearly stated that "A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.” - Matthew 12:35-37 (NIV)
Trump is very careless with his words and has offended a lot of people with them. The dangerous aspect is when people follow a leader who discriminates against people for reasons based on their nationality, religion, or even for disagreeing with him. :(

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I hope I make sense to you as its late and I am very sleepy.

 

 

Yep makes perfect sense. I hope you had a nice rest after writing this. :)

 

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God Bless you and May the One, guide all of us on the right and straight path God Willing.

Amen. Thank you so much and may the One and Only God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Israel) guide us all to Him!

Peace and God bless you :)

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On 1/8/2016 at 5:19 PM, Asad_127 said:

Salaamalikum,

What would you do? How would you prepare?

Best Regards

-Asad_127       

Salam Asad_127,

I will stay. And, if Muslims or Mexicans or anyone is ever in danger, I pray God uses me to help them. It is important to help people in need, regardless of their ethnicity, nationality, and religion.

Hopefully nothing bad will happen if Trump becomes president. What concerns me however is the level of mob-like, fanatically loyal following Trump has.

While he said it was a joke, I do think Trump could shoot somebody and still not lose any votes. :( That really bothers me.

Some Americans seem to see Trump as almost "Messiah-like figure" - a "Savior" to save the USA from whatever they think is the problem. I don't see Trump that way at all, but it's remarkable how loyal many of his followers are to him. Scary kind of remarkable... :( 

I do completely understand why he is being compared to Hitler. I 100% agree with Eva Schloss (the stepsister of Anne Frank) here: (I boldened some.)

"If Donald Trump becomes the next president of the U.S. it would be a complete disaster. I think he is acting like another Hitler by inciting racism. During his U.S. presidential campaign he has suggested the “total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States," as well as pledging to build a wall between the U.S. and Mexico to keep illegal immigrants out."

http://www.newsweek.com/holocaust-memorial-day-anne-frank-refugee-crisis-donald-trump-420312

:(

Even the Christian community is divided over Trump. Hitler, by the way, called himself a Christian too. :( Not everyone who identifies as Christian obeys Jesus Christ's commands to love neighbors as oneself, each other, and enemies.

Peace and God bless you

 

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On 10 January 2016 at 4:12 PM, Marbles said:

People on the Left tirelessly emphasise that guys like Stalin and Pol Pot did not do what they did because of their Leftist politics, but because they were douchebags with twisted ideas.

"People on the left'? Only one person (Baradar Jackson) uses the word douchebag.

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Before l read through the replies, my initial reaction is:

That you mentioned what was done to the Jew -really by about everybody- in the 30s and half of the 40s on Shoah (Holocaust) Remembrance Day [May 5th]. Quod vide if necessary. Please note, the Death Camp system murdered 6 1/2 million Gypsies, 5 1/2 million Jews, 2 million political prisoners. A separate administrative system murdered millions of Russian POWs, And 1/2 million Jews were, in Nazi wording, 'killed in the field' -shot, hung, herded into synagogues and burned alive, and so forth.

Trump called for a moratorium on Muslims entering the country "... until the Congress finds out what is going on.".  l do not see this as a direct threat.

 

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9 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

"People on the left'? Only one person (Baradar Jackson) uses the word douchebag.

 

This is what happens when you live in the UK, Haji.

 

The word douchebag is ubiquitous in the states. I can't even hold a conversation without using this word.

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4 hours ago, notme said:

Must be a west coat thing. 

 

Well there is an unfunny comedian (Dennis Leary) who is from Boston or some such place and he uses the word even more than me.

 

And I first learned the word when I lived in New York.

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Hello,

On 5/6/2016 at 8:01 PM, hasanhh said:

Trump called for a moratorium on Muslims entering the country "... until the Congress finds out what is going on.".  l do not see this as a direct threat.

 

Thank you very much for making this point.  Trump is not anti Mexican, he is not anti-Islam.  He is concerned about the porosity of US borders and the lack of information on some seeking refugee status in the United States.

All the Best,

David 

 

 

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I think the issue of Trump as being dangerous is being totally exaggerated and is more like fear mongering on part of the Democratic Party - so that they can get Hillary into the Presidency. Hillary, who is one of the least liked individuals around , and who derailed Sander's campaign, at least partly through this fear mongering.  

Trump is a bit of a maverick no doubt, but he is not into overseas adventures, nation building, NATO, or other such war mongering that Hillary has engaged in... Overall Trump is a far better candidate than Hillary. 

BUT question is if you want to vote for evil? Because a lesser evil is still evil. 

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asa,

 

does anyone think that trump could be a potential ally againist the sunni ? could we use him to separate the actions of sunnis from people perception of islam ?

hillarly and Obama are aligned with the sunni for the most part. iran deal aside wqhat has Obama done for are arab shia brethren? or indo-pak shia brethren ?

 

perhaps trump could be convinced to ban sunnism, shut down sunni masjids, stop sunni immagartion, rather to blanket all muslims under this banner.

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14 minutes ago, allsayyidsareahlulbayt! said:

ws,

I don't know what that means.

It means that you've taken it too far, "Sunnism" isn't a problem, they are Muslims just like Shia's. We should not ban Sunnis, Sunni masjids or Sunni immigration, they are not the problem. The problem is the radicals which are on both sides, whether they are Sunni or Shia. A better way to tackle the situation would be to ban the works that lead or promote radicalism. Furthermore, by categorizing everyone under one roof based on their religion and by segregating them even though they have done nothing wrong will only add fuel to the fire and increase the support for these radicals.

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Bro, it would be a bad idea. Trump doesn't need to get of Sunni mosques, he needs to get rid of Salafi mosques.  Plus, Trump is an unreasonable man, it is naive to think he would agree to let Iran build our mosques and et cetera. Considering how he openly admits his hatred for Muslims and anything that is not white and is backed by the Ku Klux Klan, a Christian terrorist group full of neo-fascists, I'm surprised that you even suggested this idea, Trump will never agree to do this. Trump is a potential Yazeed of our times and nobody wants the Klan back in power either.  What you suggested is madness and out of touch with reality.  

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17 minutes ago, allsayyidsareahlulbayt! said:

asa,

well we could inform trump of the difference and see if we get support. all sunni are potential hajaj ibn Yusuf nowdays.

 

 

 

 

What do you suggest? Take him to Baynul Haramain and hope for a spiritual revolution?

This man is a huge troll, and his issue isn't with different sects, but with Islam itself. 

Edited by Vestige
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41 minutes ago, allsayyidsareahlulbayt! said:

asa,

well we could inform trump of the difference and see if we get support. all sunni are potential hajaj ibn Yusuf nowdays.

 

 

 

 

:ws:

I think Trump could care less about our differences. As far he's concerned, we're all terrorists and deserve to be deported.

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                                                    :bismillah: 

                                                    :salam: 

Please don't ever talk about shutting down "Sunni" mosques, it's a disgrace that a Shi'ite even agrees to something like this. Every US president is a troll that constantly lies and has common sense to see the difference between Shi'ites and Sunnis hence the "great satan" title. I secretly hope that Hillary wins though:), would make matters faster.

Salam.

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Hello,

 

2 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Bro, it would be a bad idea. Trump doesn't need to get of Sunni mosques, he needs to get rid of Salafi mosques.  Plus, Trump is an unreasonable man, it is naive to think he would agree to let Iran build our mosques and et cetera. Considering how he openly admits his hatred for Muslims and anything that is not white and is backed by the Ku Klux Klan, a Christian terrorist group full of neo-fascists, I'm surprised that you even suggested this idea, Trump will never agree to do this. Trump is a potential Yazeed of our times and nobody wants the Klan back in power either.  What you suggested is madness and out of touch with reality.  

Please cite your source for this claim.  Thanks.

1 hour ago, Ali Hamieh said:

                                                    :bismillah: 

                                                    :salam: 

Please don't ever talk about shutting down "Sunni" mosques, it's a disgrace that a Shi'ite even agrees to something like this. Every US president is a troll that constantly lies and has common sense to see the difference between Shi'ites and Sunnis hence the "great satan" title. I secretly hope that Hillary wins though:), would make matters faster.

Salam.

1 hour ago, Ali Hamieh said:

 

Please clarify this sentence.  What "matters" are you referring to?

All the Best,

David

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5 minutes ago, David66 said:

Please cite your source for this claim.  Thanks

Video Resurfaces: Donald Trump's Views on the "Muslim Problem" - WHOA! - The Political Insider

 
 
 
 

Former Ku Klux Klan leader declares support for Donald Trump

 
 

I posted a quite a few links with videos of Donald Trump  openly saying that Muslims "hate" America which is an insult to America's Muslim citizens. In addition, despite Trump's apparent "disavowment" of David Duke and the KKK, I think you'll find the Mother Jones article rather interesting in illustrating the difference between Trump's claims versus the reality.  Do not ask for more evidence when you can clearly watch television and watch and hear what Trump is saying to the public

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15 minutes ago, David66 said:

^ Hello,

I looked through all your links.  Maybe I missed something.  Please point out where Donald Trump "openly admits his hatred for Muslims" as you claim.

Thanks,

David

Does it matter? Everyone is aware of his negative sayings about Muslims and Islam.

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No, not only should you not want an anti-Sunni Trump, but fact is, you're just getting an anti-Muslim Trump and his presidency will empower the political right who mostly neither know about and certainly don't care about the denominations of Islam. Though, in the grand scheme of things, none of the candidates will be good for Islam(and same goes for other disenfranchised groups like those of colour or the poor). Democracy comes not from the ballot box(especially with America) but from the people, you must organize, lobby and get in touch with unions as well as with fellow Muslims. Those with the ability to be politically active should do so, that's the only way you can protect your interests in the face of rising oligarchy.

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Hello,

48 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

Does it matter? Everyone is aware of his negative sayings about Muslims and Islam.

I am surprised I have to answer this question on a religious message board.  Yes it does matter.  Making damaging false claims about another persons actions is slander.  It is a crime, it is immoral and considered a sin in all religions I am familiar with. 

So, while you and Gaius may not like Trump, that is why it matters.

All the Best,

David

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