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Haji 2003

Donald J. Trump [OFFICIAL THREAD]

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On 3/1/2016 at 1:25 PM, LeftCoastMom said:

image.jpeg

Hello LeftCoastMom,

I sadly agree with Anne Frank's stepsister Eva Schloss concerning Donald Trump: "If Donald Trump becomes the next president of the U.S. it would be a complete disaster. I think he is acting like another Hitler by inciting racism." :(

http://www.newsweek.com/holocaust-memorial-day-anne-frank-refugee-crisis-donald-trump-420312

May God have mercy on the USA.

Peace and God bless you

 

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6 hours ago, hasanhh said:

HRC is a real b!tch.

 

Salam Hasanh,

Please do not call any woman that word. :(

That is very rude and insulting. :(

One can disagree with Hilary Clinton yet not resort to name calling. Remember after all that she is a Mother and a Grandmother. Nobody would like their Mother or Grandmother being called that, so the Golden Rule applies to her too.

Peace and God bless you

 

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On 3/16/2016 at 10:29 AM, sharinganMahdi said:

[MOD NOTE: The video has crude and profane language. View at your own peril.] 

I'm pretty surprised that someone like Tyson would be in favour of somebody like trump , I guess they are homeboys  https://youtu.be/VZtuMdEjKd0

Salam SharinganMahdi,

I'm not surprised. I boldened some in the article below:

"Then Tyson was arrested and convicted of raping 18-year-old Desiree Washington in Indianapolis.

Suddenly, not only did Holyfield want to bow out of the fight, but Tyson faced the prospect of up to 60 years in prison. But Trump had an idea for saving Tyson and the Tyson-Holyfield match. On February 13, 1992—the day Tyson's sentencing was postponed for later in the month—Trump told a Newsday reporter that he thought a deal should be struck that would allow Tyson to serve no prison time, retain his boxing license, and fight Holyfield. In exchange for Tyson's freedom, he proposed that a cut of the fight's proceeds go to Desiree Washington and perhaps another share could go to victims of "rape and abuse" in Indiana."

...

"Of course, Trump was far from a disinterested party. He stood to make millions if he bagged the proposed Tyson-Holyfield fight—which was expected to be the highest-grossing fight ever. "

...

"Trump also expressed disbelief that Tyson could have committed the crime: "I don't know, after knowing Mike, I don't know how it did happen. But it was a jury. It was a jury verdict. And Mike Tyson will have to live with the jury verdict."

At that point, the press conference took a weird turn. Trump was asked, "If your sister was raped by a millionaire, would you encourage her to accept a big bundle of cash to forget everything?" He replied, "I think every individual situation is different." Trump then said he couldn't guarantee that Tyson wouldn't rape anybody else if he were allowed to avoid prison."

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/12/when-donald-trump-tried-get-mike-tyson-out-of-prison-time-of-rape

Peace and God bless you

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On 3/16/2016 at 1:44 PM, DigitalUmmah said:

Tyson is not a muslim guys, he dabbled in it while in jail and went to umrah/ hajj a few years ago but isnt a muslim any more. 

also: trump is an absolute genius. please do not think for a second he is a bungling idiot. the only idiots are all those americans who support him. 

Salam DigitalUmmah,

Yeah I don't think Tyson is truly a Muslim, even if he says he is a Muslim...

And for the record, I agree with the Pope that Trump is not a Christian. Or, he is possibly a disobedient Christian, since he doesn't seem to care one bit about Jesus' commands to love neighbors as oneself, love enemies, and "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth" (Matthew 6:19 a NIV).

One of Trump's houses displays more of a leaning to Greek gods than to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob:

"Classical art dominates here with a bronze of Eros and Psyche, one of the great love Greek love stories, and Apollo led by Aurora – the Greek goddess of the dawn, suggesting Trump sees himself the mold of Apollo, Zeus’s son, and one of the most powerful of the gods."

http://nairobiwire.com/2016/01/photos-inside-donald-trumps-100-million-new-york-apartment.html

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady

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On 3/11/2016 at 11:00 AM, 12reasons4truth. said:

If you want to judge a politician, first look at his/her bank account...Sanders is the poorest politician, and he is not in the pockets of any lobbyists which should tell you something!

Salam 12reasons4truth,

Interestingly, while not a Christian, Sanders does seem to follow many of Jesus Christ's ideals such loving neighbors, helping the poor, and not amassing material wealth.

Quote

As far as Sanders is supporting Israel, that's a prerequisite (unfortunately) to run as a U.S president, you have no choice, if you want to be elected. Sanders is Jewish but not a Zionist. If I vote (which I don't) I would vote for Bernie Sanders as a Muslim. We do need a Jewish president. Maybe he can solve the Israeli Palestinian problem peacefully.

Another thing I like about Sanders is that he cares for the Palestinians and the Israelis. Since both groups are siblings in humanity, it's awesome to see a politician who cares for both groups and who calls out both Israel and Palestine for the injustices they are doing to each other. It would be awesome if both Israel and Palestine would love each other as neighbors, and I pray the same for the USA and México. As an American, it greatly saddens me the hatred against Mexican and Latin Americans that Trump and his supporters are inciting. :(

Quote

He is the best candidate out of all of them. As a Muslim, I endorse Bernie Sanders. 

There are still some issues about Bernie Sanders that concern me but not as much as Trump concerns me. I would definitely vote for Sanders over Trump, that's for sure!

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady

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12 hours ago, Christianlady said:

Salam Hasanh,

Please do not call any woman that word. :(

That is very rude and insulting. :(

One can disagree with Hilary Clinton yet not resort to name calling. Remember after all that she is a Mother and a Grandmother. Nobody would like their Mother or Grandmother being called that, so the Golden Rule applies to her too.

Peace and God bless you

 

If it walks like a duck/dog, and quacks/barks like a duck/dog, then it is a duck/dog, right?

Besides, I do call my late mother that --in my milder moments. My sister kinda qualified for this too. No sympathy, please.

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Hasanhh is going easy on her.  You're right....I actually can't think of a word bad enough for a mother and grandmother who failed to read Intelligence Reports,even at the urging of her fellow Democrats ,and stood with the right-wing of her party even after the lies about the WMDs had been exposed ,and supported the Boy Emperor Bush's invasion of another country in which thousands of other people's children and grandchildren were killed. What did dogs ever do to  merit sharing a name with this woman? It is an insult to female canines,IMHO.

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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15 hours ago, Christianlady said:

Salam 12reasons4truth,

Interestingly, while not a Christian, Sanders does seem to follow many of Jesus Christ's ideals such loving neighbors, helping the poor, and not amassing material wealth.

Another thing I like about Sanders is that he cares for the Palestinians and the Israelis. Since both groups are siblings in humanity, it's awesome to see a politician who cares for both groups and who calls out both Israel and Palestine for the injustices they are doing to each other. It would be awesome if both Israel and Palestine would love each other as neighbors, and I pray the same for the USA and México. As an American, it greatly saddens me the hatred against Mexican and Latin Americans that Trump and his supporters are inciting. :(

There are still some issues about Bernie Sanders that concern me but not as much as Trump concerns me. I would definitely vote for Sanders over Trump, that's for sure!

Peace and God bless you

In the name of the Creator, who created the universe!

Walaykum Asalam my ChristianLady sister.

Dear sister, we should always love those who love God Almighty no matter what religion he believes in, Because people who love and believe in God, they will never do bad things to our follow human beings.  Fear those who show their faces as a believer in God (to fool the mass) but do the total opposite which incite hate, division and genocide.  Trump does not even have an ounce of Christianity in his blood, I bet you anything he doesn't know any part of the Bible by heart! So we can not judge him by what he claims to be( a Christian) we can surely judge him by what he has done as a Christian to say that what he does is unchristian of him.

I hope I make sense to you as its late and I am very sleepy.

God Bless you and May the One, guide all of us on the right and straight path God Willing.

 

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On 12.3.2016 at 5:18 PM, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

A mumin never supports any unjust person. Doing so leads straight to Hellfire, according to the Qur'an.

None of the US presidential candidates is just, except maybe Sanders.

Still we have muslims who vote for lesser evils, when they have opinion to not vote at all. Is not voting for lesser evil bit of supporting them?

Edited by Dhulfikar

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trump said that saddam was good because he killed terriost well those terriost were innocent people 

he is so dumb and stupid and ignorant he say thing so people  vote for him now for me it's weather trump or Hilary the both will kill Muslim so  

and them Obama will be an angel at that time. it's not just talking it's doing and he failed  (trump ) in every thing he did 

so yeah he's is a failure 

in 2000 he said I'm in with war on irak and know he says that he wasn't he as staight up liar 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Dhulfikar said:

Still we have muslims who vote for lesser evils, when they have opinion to not vote at all. Is not voting for lesser evil bit of supporting them?

There are many examples of our Imams(a.s) supporting the lesser evil to ward off the greater evil, here are some examples. 

1) Imam Ali(a.s) not fighting Abu Bakr for Caliph even though Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) explicitly designated him as Caliph in front of the entire Ummah. He explained why he did not fight, in Nahjul Balagha

 - Imam Ali(a.s) actually helped Abu Bakr and Umar on various occasions with specific problems, jurisprudential and other types. 

2) Imam Hassan(a.s) doing the peace treaty with Muawiyah(la). Explained in many ahadith

3) Imam Sadiq(a.s) having a relationship with the unjust Caliphs, visiting them, sitting in their court, etc. Reasons for this are explained in Hadith. 

The summary is, they did these things to ward off a greater harm from the Ummah and specifically followers of Ahl Al Bayt. They didn't do this because they supported those Caliphs or believed their position or policies were legitimate. There was a danger that their actions could be misunderstood and continue to be misunderstood till today, just read the Sunni/Shia forum for examples of this. But the alternative, which is to give the enemies of Allah(s.w.a), Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) and Ahl Al Bayt(a.s), an excuse or pretext for wiping true Islam and followers of Ahl Al Bayt(a.s) off the face of the earth was the greater harm. That didn't happen, Alhamduillah, only because of the great wisdom, piety, and insight of our Imam(a.s). 

About the election, I personally am not going to vote (I don't think I am at this point if it comes down to either Trump or Hillary). At the same time, I don't fault other brothers and sisters for voting, if they believe sincerely that their vote will help the mumineen and muminat in the US and around the world. But I discourage brothers and sisters from supporting these candidates (any of them, including Sanders) in the way that they look to them for help and support or admire them. I also discourage them from campaigning for any of them, or donating to their campaigns, or petitioning them for anything. It says in the Quran we should not take the unbelievers (kuffar) for our Awliyah (protectors and supporters). All of these candidates are kuffar. But if we can use them to ward off a greater harm, as our Imams(a.s) did, then we should do that. 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

There are many examples of our Imams(a.s) supporting the lesser evil to ward off the greater evil, here are some examples. 

1) Imam Ali(a.s) not fighting Abu Bakr for Caliph even though Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) explicitly designated him as Caliph in front of the entire Ummah. He explained why he did not fight, in Nahjul Balagha

 - Imam Ali(a.s) actually helped Abu Bakr and Umar on various occasions with specific problems, jurisprudential and other types. 

2) Imam Hassan(a.s) doing the peace treaty with Muawiyah(la). Explained in many ahadith

3) Imam Sadiq(a.s) having a relationship with the unjust Caliphs, visiting them, sitting in their court, etc. Reasons for this are explained in Hadith. 

The summary is, they did these things to ward off a greater harm from the Ummah and specifically followers of Ahl Al Bayt. They didn't do this because they supported those Caliphs or believed their position or policies were legitimate. There was a danger that their actions could be misunderstood and continue to be misunderstood till today, just read the Sunni/Shia forum for examples of this. But the alternative, which is to give the enemies of Allah(s.w.a), Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) and Ahl Al Bayt(a.s), an excuse or pretext for wiping true Islam and followers of Ahl Al Bayt(a.s) off the face of the earth was the greater harm. That didn't happen, Alhamduillah, only because of the great wisdom, piety, and insight of our Imam(a.s). 

About the election, I personally am not going to vote (I don't think I am at this point if it comes down to either Trump or Hillary). At the same time, I don't fault other brothers and sisters for voting, if they believe sincerely that their vote will help the mumineen and muminat in the US and around the world. But I discourage brothers and sisters from supporting these candidates (any of them, including Sanders) in the way that they look to them for help and support or admire them. I also discourage them from campaigning for any of them, or donating to their campaigns, or petitioning them for anything. It says in the Quran we should not take the unbelievers (kuffar) for our Awliyah (protectors and supporters). All of these candidates are kuffar. But if we can use them to ward off a greater harm, as our Imams(a.s) did, then we should do that. 

 

 

I agree about the Imams and how they handled the situations. I also agree that people can vote if the situation is similar to Imams, for helping the Ummah, but at same time not supporting the evils. But you are right about disagree with the muslims who go so far to actually support them! I'm wrong thinking that voting the person automatically means supporting it, which in case of Imams its not.

Edited by Dhulfikar

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On ‎18‎/‎03‎/‎2016 at 2:46 PM, Christianlady said:

Salam SharinganMahdi,

I'm not surprised. I boldened some in the article below:

"Then Tyson was arrested and convicted of raping 18-year-old Desiree Washington in Indianapolis.

Suddenly, not only did Holyfield want to bow out of the fight, but Tyson faced the prospect of up to 60 years in prison. But Trump had an idea for saving Tyson and the Tyson-Holyfield match. On February 13, 1992—the day Tyson's sentencing was postponed for later in the month—Trump told a Newsday reporter that he thought a deal should be struck that would allow Tyson to serve no prison time, retain his boxing license, and fight Holyfield. In exchange for Tyson's freedom, he proposed that a cut of the fight's proceeds go to Desiree Washington and perhaps another share could go to victims of "rape and abuse" in Indiana."

...

"Of course, Trump was far from a disinterested party. He stood to make millions if he bagged the proposed Tyson-Holyfield fight—which was expected to be the highest-grossing fight ever. "

...

"Trump also expressed disbelief that Tyson could have committed the crime: "I don't know, after knowing Mike, I don't know how it did happen. But it was a jury. It was a jury verdict. And Mike Tyson will have to live with the jury verdict."

At that point, the press conference took a weird turn. Trump was asked, "If your sister was raped by a millionaire, would you encourage her to accept a big bundle of cash to forget everything?" He replied, "I think every individual situation is different." Trump then said he couldn't guarantee that Tyson wouldn't rape anybody else if he were allowed to avoid prison."

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/12/when-donald-trump-tried-get-mike-tyson-out-of-prison-time-of-rape

Peace and God bless you

Wsalam, And wow ! that puts a twist on things , makes a lot of sense why Tyson is siding with trump .... I knew about his convictions but didn't know that trump played a role in it , haha I learned something new today :) , jakhallah and may peace and blessings of God be with you

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On 16-3-2016 at 6:44 PM, DigitalUmmah said:

Tyson is not a muslim guys, he dabbled in it while in jail and went to umrah/ hajj a few years ago but isnt a muslim any more. 

also: trump is an absolute genius. please do not think for a second he is a bungling idiot. the only idiots are all those americans who support him. 

Why is he not a muslim? Because he is not an example'?

You can't just say that about someone who says he is even when he neglect prayers.

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I find this concept interesting.

The reason is because I do have a couple of Muslim friends I asked regarding this who feel this concept of " not taking ' kuffar' as friends, allies, etc." relates to a specific time in Muslim history and certainly would not apply to participating in a representative democracy.

Isn't there a "kuffar" document protecting Islam in the US right now?Which would ,ideally, be upheld by a "kuffar" police force and a " kuffar" justice system should a hate crime against a Muslim occur?

why would voting be a problem? You already have " kuffar" as de facto "protectors and allies "if you live here. Might as well have a hand in deciding who your allies are. (That's SGs position.)

As well, would this apply to taking " kuffar" money? . I have a family member works in intake for citizens and qualified immigrants. Should refugees, Muslim women and children abandoned by the father ( she has a couple  of those on her case load), and Muslim folks who are just plain too poor to feed their kids refuse to take" kuffar "money? I wonder how these Muslim kids who were fed, clothed, and housed through" kuffar "systems are going to feel about this concept.

 

And what are we to think of the Muslim countries that make sure Christians, Jews, etc, have seats in their legislatures? 

One of the Muslims I know who was a refugee and had to come through the system which supported her family until they could get on their feet says " The country that shares its bread with you is worth working and fighting for." She is far from a mindless new-American jingoistic patriotic sort, but she votes with pride.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, LeftCoastMom said:

I find this concept interesting.

The reason is because I do have a couple of Muslim friends I asked regarding this who feel this concept of " not taking ' kuffar' as friends, allies, etc." relates to a specific time in Muslim history and certainly would not apply to participating in a representative democracy.

Isn't there a "kuffar" document protecting Islam in the US right now?Which would ,ideally, be upheld by a "kuffar" police force and a " kuffar" justice system should a hate crime against a Muslim occur?

why would voting be a problem? You already have " kuffar" as de facto "protectors and allies "if you live here. Might as well have a hand in deciding who your allies are. (That's SGs position.)

As well, would this apply to taking " kuffar" money? . I have a family member works in intake for citizens and qualified immigrants. Should refugees, Muslim women and children abandoned by the father ( she has a couple  of those on her case load), and Muslim folks who are just plain too poor to feed their kids refuse to take" kuffar "money? I wonder how these Muslim kids who were fed, clothed, and housed through" kuffar "systems are going to feel about this concept.

 

And what are we to think of the Muslim countries that make sure Christians, Jews, etc, have seats in their legislatures? 

One of the Muslims I know who was a refugee and had to come through the system which supported her family until they could get on their feet says " The country that shares its bread with you is worth working and fighting for." She is far from a mindless new-American jingoistic patriotic sort, but she votes with pride.

 

 

We are told in the Quran not to take 'kuffar' as protectors. The specific word used in 'Awliyat' which is an Arabic word(obviously since the Quran was revealed the in Arabic language). This word roughly translated to protector and supporter although it has other meanings which are not easy to translate. If you take someone as your 'Wali' (singular form of Awliya), then you are reliant on that person, family, organization, government, etc and implied is that you are putting your trust in them to protect you and handle your affairs. 

Now this concepts of Wilayat and Awliya has different interpretations by different groups of Muslims. We, as followers of Imam Ali(a.s) and Ahl Al Bayt(a.s) have a very specific definition of this concept (as stated above) whereas other groups of muslims may have a slightly different definition but the general concept is the same for all muslims. 

Also, the word 'kuffar' has different definitions, both literal, figurative / allegorical, and legislative. So who is and who is not 'kuffar' depends on different factors. The basic definition, as it is used in this verse in the Quran, is anyone who doesn't believe in Allah(s.w.a) as One God with no Partners or Equals, who is Sovereign, and Indivisible and doesn't believe that Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h) is the Messenger of Allah(s.w.a). So we are not allowed to put our trust in people who don't believe in this as far as critical things like our life, lives of our family, our property, or follow them in their faith. At the same time, we are allowed to be friends with them, do business with them, 'hang out' with them, work with them, etc, etc. 

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Thank you for defining terms. I meant to ask someone to do that and forgot.

However, my questions still stand. Especially since my friend most definitely had to put her life and trust into non-Muslim hands for her family's survival. Naturally, she would have issues with this concept outside of a historical context because to take it literally would have been suicide.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Talut said:

Why is he not a muslim? Because he is not an example'?

You can't just say that about someone who says he is even when he neglect prayers.

Im a massive fan of tyson, IIRC he left islam years ago.

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@David66 I have heard the same from others.

It is the "Republican Establishment" that is paying for these provocateurs. Hillary knows she'd get caught if her side did this and Sanders will not tolerate such behavior.

Based on what was said this morning on the Sunday Morning Talk, if it is contrived to deny Trump the nomination if he wins the popular Primaries' votes, then I'll vote for him in a 3rd Party ticket.

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1 hour ago, Enlightened Follower said:

@LeftCoastMom @magma @baradar_jackson @Abu Hadi

Hope you guys will watch this it will really address and clear up questions as to why Trump has been receiving so much support and popularity, as you guys have been mostly closely watching this topic.

 

Well, I am taking refuge in my room for a few minutes this Easter Feast to check my emails whilst the ( supposedly " grown-up" )thundering herd of young people dye eggs ...and everything else....in the kitchen. I can't watch. I just washed the floor yesterday.

Anyhow, thanks for this @Enlightened Follower ...it sets my mind at ease. Here I thought Trump's success was due to the forces of Satan. :ko:

 

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The video:

 

The article:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35931103

Transcript:

Donald Trump, as he is wont to do, just trampled through this carefully constructed conservative political dance with all the grace of a rhinoceros at a tea party. Thanks to his assertion, after prodding, that women should face "some form of punishment" for having an illegal abortion, the conservative pro-life movement is going to be forced to defend their beliefs on uncomfortable ground. Republican candidates will be asked, again and again, to defend or denounce Mr Trump's comments.

This is exactly the kind of scenario that terrifies Republican politicians about Mr Trump as their party's nominee. His ill-considered remarks and shoot-from-the-hip approach to media interviews could be a political minefield for their candidates in the autumn.

In all likelihood it's just a taste of things to come.


However, some anti-abortion groups criticised Mr Trump's initial comments as extreme.

"Mr Trump's comment today is completely out of touch with the pro-life movement and even more with women who have chosen such a sad thing as abortion," said Jeanne Mancini, President of the March for Life Education and Defense Fund.

"No pro-lifer would ever want to punish a woman who has chosen abortion."

Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton has been an outspoken critic of Mr Trump's stance on women's issues.

"Just when you thought it couldn't get worse. Horrific and telling," said Mrs Clinton after his latest comments.

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1 hour ago, Enlightened Follower said:

I know brother I am just pointing out his inconsistencies he said he was in support of it then he backed off from his position.

 

Of course brother, I understood. I am sorry if it came off as a criticism of you. I am criticizing the culture which has made people sensitive toward suggestions that people who commit infanticide are completely innocent and not deserving of any punishment.

 

Unfortunately, a lot of folks will lump in this statement of Trump in with the racist and/or ridiculous things, somehow suggesting that this statement is in the same category.

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He mixes extreme statements with ambiguous statements so when people pull him up on the extreme statements he will reiterate the ambiguous or more moderate statements. I think this also helps people who find some of his statements disturbing excuse them by concentrating on more moderate language he's used. The people who like the extreme statements focus on them and ignore more moderate language. Its a bit like throwing a huge bag of mixed sweets at a bunch of kids in the hope that they'll all find something they like.

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On 31/03/2016 at 4:05 AM, baradar_jackson said:

Punish people? For infanticide? Why I never!

That language is really not helpful. Having the potential for personhood doesnt make a thing a person, so people have to discern a reasonable line in the sand. There has been differing opinion Islamically, but a fetus is not considered to be equal with the mother and 4 months seems to be the furthest line in the sand before abortion would be considered a crime.

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