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In the Name of God بسم الله
Haji 2003

Donald J. Trump [OFFICIAL THREAD]

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Why would anyone support Trump? Even people who "like" him can't explain it. I think it's media brainwashing. Trump supporters do seem to be people who watch a lot of TV. (Conspiracy theory, anyone?)

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On 2/25/2016 at 5:07 PM, LeftCoastMom said:

Around here Trump's name is mud and I don't know any Christian, even those in the local dying population of Republicans, who supports him. We have a good healthy crop of Sandernistas, though.

Shalom LeftCoastMom,

You are blessed!

I know several Christians who are blinded by Trump. In my free time, I've been pointing out why voting for Trump is harmful to the USA, but they don't care. They just make excuses for him and blame the media, the GOP, Obama, Clinton, Muslims, illegal immigrants from Latin America, and even Megyn Kelly. They also do not care what Jesus Christ says, and that Trump does not obey Jesus Christ. :(

Trump hasn't even shared a testimony of asking God for forgiveness for anything, yet he claims he believes in God.

My hubby says that discussing with them is a waste of time, and after Super Tuesday, I'm inclined to agree. It makes me so sad. Trump's popularity shows the vast moral decline that the USA has fallen.

While the USA has achieved tremendous growth in human rights and understanding all people are equal under God, that tree is being uprooted by Trump and his followers scapegoating a religion (Islam) and our neighbor countries to the South. :(

Peace and God bless you

 

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On 2/26/2016 at 5:01 AM, andres said:

Hi Christianlady 

I have visited USA seven times. In comparison with Sweden seemingly a very religious country. Churches everywhere with many visitors. My impression is that (unlike in Europe) a US president candidate that declares himself atheist has got no chance to win the race, so they all declares themself Christian.

Hi Andres,

Great point. Here is a chart that shows the religious claims of each President of the USA. While some were definitely not devout, I don't think any identified as an Atheist: 

1 George Washington Episcopalian
2 John Adams Congregationalist (raised); Unitarian
3 Thomas Jefferson raised Episcopalian; later no specific denomination
held Christian, Deist, Unitarian beliefs
4 James Madison Episcopalian (deist?)
5 James Monroe Episcopalian (deist?)
6 John Quincy Adams Unitarian
7 Andrew Jackson Presbyterian
8 Martin Van Buren Dutch Reformed
9 William Henry Harrison Episcopalian
10 John Tyler Episcopalian (deist)
11 James Knox Polk Presbyterian; Methodist
12 Zachary Taylor Episcopalian
13 Millard Fillmore Unitarian
14 Franklin Pierce Episcopalian
15 James Buchanan Presbyterian
16 Abraham Lincoln raised Baptist; later no specific denomination (deist)
17 Andrew Johnson Christian (no specific denomination)
18 Ulysses S Grant Presbyterian; Methodist
19 Rutherford B. Hayes Presbyterian; Methodist (?)
20 James A. Garfield Disciples of Christ
21 Chester A. Arthur Episcopalian
22 Grover Cleveland Presbyterian
23 Benjamin Harrison Presbyterian
24 Grover Cleveland Presbyterian
25 William McKinley Methodist
26 Theodore Roosevelt Dutch Reformed; Episcopalian
27 William Howard Taft Unitarian
28 Woodrow Wilson Presbyterian
29 Warren G. Harding Baptist
30 Calvin Coolidge Congregationalist
31 Herbert Hoover Quaker
32 Franklin Delano Roosevelt Episcopalian
33 Harry S. Truman Southern Baptist
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower River Brethren; Jehovah's Witnesses; Presbyterian
35 John F. Kennedy Catholic
36 Lyndon B. Johnson Disciples of Christ
37 Richard M. Nixon Quaker
38 Gerald Ford Episcopalian
39 Jimmy Carter Baptist (former Southern Baptist)
40 Ronald Reagan Disciples of Christ; Presbyterian
41 George H. W. Bush Episcopalian
42 William Jefferson Clinton Baptist
43 George W. Bush Methodist (former Episcopalian)

http://www.adherents.com/adh_presidents.html

President Obama said that he is a Christian. While there are rumors that he is a (closet) Muslim, I doubt them. While he could be a closet Atheist like some of the other presidents may have been, I personally believe he is a liberal Christian. While I disagree with his stance on abortion and homosexuality, Jesus Christ did not focus on those 2 issues as criteria for following him. It makes me sad when some Christians accuse him of being the antichrist, but that shows they don't understand what/who antichrists are.

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I do not believe Trump when he says he is.

Me neither :(

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He must say, but his message has little to do with what Jesus wish from us.

True.

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USA is a rich country with many poor citizens.

True

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Seeing to that all citizens can have a decent place to live, access to free medical care and education, should be obvious to all Christians.

Well, one thing I have noticed from chatting with LeftCoastMom is that some Christians are led into believing that capitalism is what makes America great. My Papaw for example is a very firm believer in capitalism and associates socialism with anti-Christian rhetoric. However, after studying what Jesus Christ said and did, and about the early church, it seems obvious that the early Jewish Christians in Jerusalem and Judea practiced a voluntary form of socialism (Acts 2:44-45). It is possible this continued until the pagan Roman Empire destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD.

So, I think maybe some American Christians put too much faith in capitalism and not in following the example of Jesus Christ and his followers. While it saddens me to go against my Papaw, I will vote for Sanders if he wins the Democratic nomination because even though he is not a Christian, he does behave more like Jesus Christ and his disciples than Trump does. (Thanks LeftCoastMom for pointing out that socialism is not evil if done correctly.)

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I believe this would make America great.

It would help make America great yes. I think that following Jesus Christ would definitely make America great, and doing 2 Chronicles 7:14: 

"if My people, upon whom My name is called, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek My face, and turn from their evil ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt25b07.htm

Peace and God bless you

 

 

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On 2/26/2016 at 11:15 AM, notme said:

I'm not convinced that a majority of voting Republicans actually support Trump. I think the media is lying to us, trying to tell us what to think, and attempting to make it less obvious that the election is fake to stave off the impending revolution.

Salam Notme,

The media could definitely be the reason Trump is so popular. He has been getting more attention than any other candidate, which could be why so many people are voting for him. Yesterday showed that Trump is the frontrunner for the Republicans, sad to say. :(

Quote

I'm also not convinced that anyone would prefer Hilary. Anyone. It's all such a farce.

I'm not convinced either.

Peace and God bless you

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On 2/26/2016 at 0:42 PM, LeftCoastMom said:

I'm wary of the DNC doing a number on Bernie.

Hi again LeftCoastMom,

I think more Christians would support Bernie if they understood that socialism can be good if done like how the early Jewish Christians did it in Acts 2:44-45. One of the issues though is that many rich people do not have any desire to part with their wealth to help people who they don't love. :(

Peace and God bless you

 

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On 2/28/2016 at 10:40 PM, notme said:

Sadly, two of my friends/family have recently become brainwashed and started voicing support for the Donald. That makes a total of 4 American people who I know who support him. That's scary because it has doubled this week and also I'd like to think my family and friends are more educated and intelligent than Donald supporters. 

Is this what it was like in Germany in the 30s?

Hi again Notme,

I'm sorry to hear that. :( I feel the same and ask the same question. :(

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady

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12 hours ago, roya1b100d said:

The problem with western Christianity is that they have been inundated with secularism and Jewish teachings over a number of years to make them obedient to the establishment. 

Salam/Shalom/Peace Roya1b100d,

First of all, Jesus Christ is a Jew, a descendant of King David. King David and King Solomon are also Jews, descended from Judah, one of the 12 sons of Jacob (Israel) son of Isaac, son of Abraham.

Christianity is an interpretation of Judaism and even though it's denounced as a heresy by other Jewish groups, it includes both Jews and Gentiles. It was actually a surprise to Jesus' apostles when Peter (one of the 12 apostles Jesus chose) received the vision that taught that Gentiles could follow Jesus too (Acts 10). The circumcised believer here are Jews:

"The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues[b] and praising God." - Acts 10:45-46 (NIV)

So, without Judaism, Christianity wouldn't exist.

Secondly, I do agree that secularism has hurt Christianity a lot. :(

Peace and God bless you

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1 hour ago, Christianlady said:

Hi again LeftCoastMom,

I think more Christians would support Bernie if they understood that socialism can be good if done like how the early Jewish Christians did it in Acts 2:44-45. One of the issues though is that many rich people do not have any desire to part with their wealth to help people who they don't love. :(

Peace and God bless you

 

The Christians out here understand it well...except for the fundies. But we should probably be our own country out here anyway.... :grin: Lots of left coast Christians,Jews, etc. ( probably Muslims soon if not already)  have a rep for being pinkos anyway.

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You might assume that, as a philosopher and as someone with an interest in Islamic culture, I would view the prospect of a Donald Trump Presidency with great alarm. To the contrary! I think his election could bring many unforeseen benefits, philosophically speaking. Here are just a few.

1. Kant’s Critique of Pure Reason to get exciting rebrand as Trump Critique of Pure Reason.

2. Far easier to get undergraduate students to take Plato’s critique of democracy seriously.

3. The principle of plenitude (“any genuine possibility, no matter how remote, will be realized eventually”) definitively proven true.

4. Principle of sufficient reason (“all events have a rationally explicable cause”) definitively proven false.

5. Many employment opportunities for young philosophers as established faculty flee the country.

6. Unlike one of his rivals Mr Trump has not, as far as we’re aware, compared philosophers unfavorably to welders.

7. Great new example to invoke in arguments over the Problem of Evil.

8. Kierkegaardians rejoice, since salvation attainable only through the absurd.

9. Whole new branch of Philosophy of Language needed to determine truth conditions of sentences uttered by President Trump (if any).

10. Future generations likely to plow money into time travel research in order to discover how to change the past.

 

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"Ban" on Muslims ?

How did Trump say it?  "until Congress finds out what is going on !"

I wonder/think Trump 'does know' what we have discussed on SC over the last few years: mass release of convicts, Obama & Clinton signing-off on it, to punish the Syrians for not joining a pre-planned uprising (like Libya), having them assemble in Anbar Provence (where their is more oil than Saudia ever had)... all over a gas pipeline.

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Seriously.

Hilary is a neocon and career politician. She has already armed the Syrian "rebels" under her watch.

Trump said outrageous things about Muslims for votes. At the end of the day he is a practical business man and he has already stated he was against the Iraq war. He is more interested in trade wars with China and Mexico.

All the other republican candidates are war hawks.

I'm not a Trump supporter but he is the least likely to start wars in the Middle East and other places for no reason, despite the tough talk.

Edited by ChattingwithShias

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Cant stump the Trump. Trump cannot be bought nor corrupted. He told the Jews to their face that he doesnt want their money and they cannot buy him. I take him anyday over the Jew sanders, Israel worshiper Cruz or the corrupted Hillary who cannot manage 2 emails accounts. 

il_570xN.809993148_du0c.jpg.b3bb3ac3b57b

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  Hilary started her political activism as a young lawyer here in Illinois, in Park Ridge in the Chicago northwestern suburbs.  She was a  Barry Goldwater  staffer @ a time when the preferred refrain of the Republican Party (young attorney/political activist Hilary Rodham's Republican Party) was  " .  . if Lyndon Johnson and the Democrats get in the White House, the White House will become the "black house." 

  Although Savannah Guthrie exacted a quote from Mr Trump (le Trumpeur Americaine) today on NBC , WMAQ's "Today" show with Matt Lauer, asking him point black, flat out, directly "Mr Trump, do you want the Ku Kux Klan's votes," exacting an immediate reply from  le Trumpeur :  "no, I do not want the Ku Kux Klan's votes,"  he is still the preferred candidate by far of America's White killer police officers.

  Its a fifty fifty call, a flip of the coin call, while most Americans feel Hilary has made enough promises to hold back the line on White racial supremacism in the United States of America, and has enough really really big leaugue connection in high and mighty places, persons in power, in governance here in the North American dicatorship, so as that she might just seem to be the better chance that we Americans might just go ahead and vote Hilary in the primaries and on to November later this year, i. e. there's nothing else out there for America.

  "Black lives matter"  and White racial supremacism  are very much a political item here in America, with the actual people subjected under the governance of this North American dictatorship, albeit [ . .macht frei, for shur WITH the pun intended] that this is an unspoken definite hot button political item here in the North American dictatorship, as my culture here in the United States of North America has very little truly democratic or free speech tradition;  i. e. we the American people  WOULD  LIKE  TO  FREELY  SPEAK  but are alotted no such option in America. With personal freedoms and domestic safety and the freedom so as to not be surreptitiously shot dead through the back of the neck or head by an American U.S. racist White killer urban police officer, a vote for  le Trumpeur Americaine  may be asking a bit much for a likely voter inside the United States.  I have decided I'm going to vote on "the ides of March" Illinois primary for Rocky de la Fuente.  The one vote will come to nothing but I voted for Gus Hall and Angela Davis also.  

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On 3/2/2016 at 9:19 PM, Zendegi said:

Just like those elections in Iran.

 

So which is it? Do they cheat the elections or are the elections themselves meaningless? At least one of these assertions must be false.

 

 

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There might be some who support him. 

There are millions of Americans, both muslim and non muslim who are completely and totally fed up with 'career politicians'. The ones who make all kinds of promises about solving this or that problem (infrastructure, income inequality, completely broken immigration system, education, student loan debt, high cost of housing in many areas, high taxes, homelessness, high cost of medical care, etc all of which are huge problems in the US). Then when they get into office, they do absolutely nothing and the problems get worse and then they run again, make the same promises, and expect people to elect them again. 

Trump is a con man who orchestrated a clever campaign to 'tap into' this frustration and portray himself as an outsider, not a politician, who can 'get things done'.  His main talent is promoting himself. Which is fine as long as you are in an environment where your claims are not scrutinized. If you are 'the boss' of a business or organization, your claims will usually get very little scrutiny because most people don't want to get fired. 

But if he gets the nomination and makes it to the general election (which is looking more like this is going to happen) he will be attacked viciously from every side and all his 'dirty laundry' will be put into the domain of public discourse. This hasn't happened yet. But when the media starts talking about his many bankruptcies, his scams that he ran, like Trump University (this is only one of them) his ties to organized crime, etc, etc. Then he will be forced at some point to release his tax returns. Then we will see how the billionaire paid none or very little taxes.  Hillary will look like a saint compared to him, although she is a typical career politician. 

For me, if it comes down to Trump v Hillary, I won't vote.

 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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I prefer Trump over the other well known candidates. Though I would prefer somebody like Ralph Nader from Green Party. Trump to me exposes those who are enemies of justice, rationality and he also exposes those who fall trap to the entertainment system which this voting is set up for. He shows you who's brainwashed on both sides of spectrum

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Donald Trump is at it again inciting hatred and bigotry towards Muslims and using "us vs. them" rhetoric creating divisiveness and using ingroup-outgroup psychology to his advantage.

Edited by Enlightened Follower

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Guys, Trump just says things. He doesn't necessarily believe them.

 

Right now he's playing a very easy game. The game of "getting all the racist idiots in the country to support him." That's very easy to do; just make comments like this. But it doesn't mean he genuinely believes them. In fact, even if he did believe them, it takes a lot of time and effort to pass the legislation that would be needed to address "the moozlem question." The only exception to this is when the rights of the precious faggots are trampled upon, in which case the law of the land will be completely turned on its head overnight. Other than that, it takes a long time to change laws in this here country.

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I'm afraid @baradar_jackson is correct to some degree.

The Constitution is not going to be overturned by a President,or anyone else, easily. ( Although, sorry, Baradar, the law wasn't " turned on its head" regarding marriage equality...the protections of the Constitution were just extended to another group, as they have been in the past.)

Trump said some of these things before running for office,so I'm betting he isn't the most tolerant person in the world, but he would happily deal with Muslims and everyone else to make a $$$$$$$$. However, at present, he is playing to the nastiest  segment of our society. And it is an embarrassment.

ah,well, laundry calls....

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There has been alot of talk in the news about this recently. Not sure why the entire Republican establishment plus the media has missed this(which makes me think there is something else going on behind the scenes)

Donald Trump is a one trick pony. His trick (and he's quite good at this, but it's only one trick). is that whenever he is backed into a corner with a question he cannot answer (which is many, many questions), he will insult you and put you on the defensive to deflect criticism and attention from himself. 

So now the media is focused on who he has insulted today or who has insulted him today. Almost no one is focusing on the obvious way to defeat him, and it is obvious. Ask him policy question and follow up questions regarding his 'policy stances' and don't let up or lose focus when he starts to attack. 

If I were a moderator, here is what I would ask. I will include Donald Trump Responses.

Abu Hadi: Mr. Trump, you have stated that you want to build a wall along the entire length of the Mexican Border, which is thousands of miles long.

Trump: Yeah, that's right. 

Abu Hadi: This wall will cost billions of dollars, how are you going to pay for that ? 

Trump: Mexico will pay for it. 

Abu Hadi: The Mexican President has already said he's not going to pay for it. So who's going to pay for it ? 

Trump: He will. I will persuade him. 

Abu Hadi: And how are you going to do that ? 

Trump: You know what, Abu, I resent the question. You have no right to come up here and attack me like this. I heard you were a moozlem. Maybe you are going to declare Jihad on me...(etc, many insults later)

Abu Hadi: Let me ask you again, how are you going to get Mexico to pay for the wall. 

.....

Either he finally answers the question or the debate will end. I wouldn't move on or respond the to attacks. Just keep asking the question. Eventually he will answer. Then we will know what his real stances are, and once most people know what his real stances are, or that he actually has no stances and is completely ignorant of almost everything, they will not support him. Simple. 

 

 

 

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Sadly, I don't think that the idiots who support him care that he has no stances. They probably just want to be entertained. They were raised by Sesame Street and weaned on "reality tv"; it's what they think is normal.

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  .

 

  My God, "OMG,"  you come to a Muslim website to "vet."  That is a wonderful start. Please continue to inform yourself with thinking of Islam as much as you may be able.

 

 

.

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