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In the Name of God بسم الله

Donald J. Trump [OFFICIAL THREAD]

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Everyone who is following this topic needs to go find a copy of 1984 and read it if they've never read it before, so they will recognize Newspeak when they see it. 

We haven't had a decent president in my lifetime, but this one far surpasses the others in both incompetence and evil. He scares me. 

I know I tend toward paranoia and I love a good conspiracy theory, but this is real. This time it's not fun. 

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Ran into this explanation of The Trans-Pacific Partnership in an email that I received from theSkimm newsletter. TPP explained in 110 words:

Quote

It’s the free trade deal that former President Obama negotiated between the US and countries that border the Pacific Ocean (like Canada, Japan, Mexico). Congress needed to give the OK to make the deal official. That never happened. Supporters said it could be a game-changer for the US economy by opening up more countries to American goods. Critics on both sides of the aisle pointed out that this could hurt US workers by sending jobs overseas. One of those critics was Trump. Now, he’s signed an executive order to officially say ‘no deal.’ This is one of the first things he said he’d do once he took office. Mission accomplished.

 

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10 hours ago, notme said:

I've read that he's ordered the removal of all references to global warming from all federal government websites, froze all contracts for the EPA, and issued a media blackout and gag order on the EPA, USDA, and the National Park Service, apparently, allegedly including banning federal employees from using their own personal Twitter accounts or other social media. 

Can anyone confirm how much of this is true? The "news" is proven to be not reliable.

I've understood the same to be correct.  how do people not see the rise of a fascist state? Anyone who supports drumpf is wrong. full stop. 

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http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/01/24/trump_to_sign_temporary_immigration_ban_targeting_muslims_blocking_most.html

Dear Lord, he's not just banning refugees he's expected to suspend visas from being issued to Iran, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Libya, Somalia and Sudan. So Iran despite being completely free of terrorism is on this list because of support of Hezbollah? Man this douche is just going to follow where his Zionist overlords lead him now? 

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10 hours ago, notme said:

Everyone who is following this topic needs to go find a copy of 1984 and read it if they've never read it before, so they will recognize Newspeak when they see it. 

We haven't had a decent president in my lifetime, but this one far surpasses the others in both incompetence and evil. He scares me. 

I know I tend toward paranoia and I love a good conspiracy theory, but this is real. This time it's not fun. 

Absolutely agree with you.  In addition to 1984, I would suggest reading Mein Kampf, Newspeak is absolutely being the order of the day.  We haven't had a decent president since Eisenhower.  Kennedy may have become better, but we can never know. 

The thing that shocks me is that there is not more outcry against the electoral college.  In classic GOP fashion, having nothing to offer in terms of actual ideas, they rode a wave of bigotry and manipulated the system so that the same system that led to victory was the same system that the founders put in place precisely to prevent anyone who was not qualified for office from holding it.

As with so many other things in the Divided States of Embarassment, people go through motions or are loyal to party over country, even though the positions espoused by that party are fundamentally unconstitutional and contrary to the philosophical underpinnings of the republic, the lever is still pulled.

To me it's clear- we have seen since the disastrous citizens united decision, the partisan court- anyone who calls the liberal justices activists is dead wrong, Scalia and Thomas alone were immensely worse, especially in cases involving Monsanto (for whom he was formerly chief counsel); chief "justice" Roberts is even worse- refusing to enforce the SCOTUS code of conduct on the judges.  And then righties will have the nerve to call the liberal justices "activists" FauxNews will repeat it ad nauseam and the same people who want to believe in a liberal media (effing joke BTW- 6 corporations own all news outlets in the Divided States of Embarassment, so it is the CORPORATE media not the LIBERAL media- to anyone considering arguing, don't bother because you are objectively and demonstrably wrong, but then again, the right generally does not tend to care about actual facts; they prefer alternative facts. Anyway, since that horrendous decision and the even worse McKutcheon vs FEC, the wealthy simply buy elections.  Yay plutocracy!  But the problem isn't the flawed 2 party system (easiest system to rig); it isn't the undue influence of $$$$$$ in elections; it isn't the corporate owned media hungry for ratings (yes the 4th estate has utterly failed and gave this moron the keys to the car that the president whom I thought would be the worst we ever had - W- had crashed... it's all the fault of immigrants, women with the audacity to want control over their bodies, and Mexico.  Beam me up Scotty.. these people have lost their bloody minds!

As much as I want to leave this disaster that I am ashamed to call the land where I was born, I feel like I have a duty to stand up and fight this ***-hat and his supporters in every way possible and, to quote Malcolm X, by any means necessary.

 

 

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On 1/23/2017 at 7:50 PM, notme said:

So he's withdrawing from trade deals, attempting to exit the UN.  Clearly the time of the US being a superpower is over.  Hopefully we can transition to the lower status without violence.

It's stupid for him to of just completely scrapped the TPP. He claims he wants a trade war with China, but this actually helps China... My God man he is stupid. TPP actually made quite a number of East/south-asian countries stir towards America and took China out of the equation. 

It also looks likely he is scrapping NAFTA. All this will obviously drive up consumer goods for odinary Americans. It certainly isn't going to drive up their wages. 

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26 minutes ago, reisiger said:

Absolutely agree with you.  In addition to 1984, I would suggest reading Mein Kampf, Newspeak is absolutely being the order of the day.  We haven't had a decent president since Eisenhower.  Kennedy may have become better, but we can never know. 

The thing that shocks me is that there is not more outcry against the electoral college.  In classic GOP fashion, having nothing to offer in terms of actual ideas, they rode a wave of bigotry and manipulated the system so that the same system that led to victory was the same system that the founders put in place precisely to prevent anyone who was not qualified for office from holding it.

As with so many other things in the Divided States of Embarassment, people go through motions or are loyal to party over country, even though the positions espoused by that party are fundamentally unconstitutional and contrary to the philosophical underpinnings of the republic, the lever is still pulled.

To me it's clear- we have seen since the disastrous citizens united decision, the partisan court- anyone who calls the liberal justices activists is dead wrong, Scalia and Thomas alone were immensely worse, especially in cases involving Monsanto (for whom he was formerly chief counsel); chief "justice" Roberts is even worse- refusing to enforce the SCOTUS code of conduct on the judges.  And then righties will have the nerve to call the liberal justices "activists" FauxNews will repeat it ad nauseam and the same people who want to believe in a liberal media (effing joke BTW- 6 corporations own all news outlets in the Divided States of Embarassment, so it is the CORPORATE media not the LIBERAL media- to anyone considering arguing, don't bother because you are objectively and demonstrably wrong, but then again, the right generally does not tend to care about actual facts; they prefer alternative facts. Anyway, since that horrendous decision and the even worse McKutcheon vs FEC, the wealthy simply buy elections.  Yay plutocracy!  But the problem isn't the flawed 2 party system (easiest system to rig); it isn't the undue influence of $$$$$$ in elections; it isn't the corporate owned media hungry for ratings (yes the 4th estate has utterly failed and gave this moron the keys to the car that the president whom I thought would be the worst we ever had - W- had crashed... it's all the fault of immigrants, women with the audacity to want control over their bodies, and Mexico.  Beam me up Scotty.. these people have lost their bloody minds!

As much as I want to leave this disaster that I am ashamed to call the land where I was born, I feel like I have a duty to stand up and fight this ***-hat and his supporters in every way possible and, to quote Malcolm X, by any means necessary.

 

 

You're acting as if it's the end of the world. He is doing exactly what he said. He'd engage in neo-mercentalism, that's what he is doing. He would scrap NAFTA and the TPP, he is doing that. Limit immigration and visa controls on muslim countries, doing that. 

Secondly you negate there are still checks and balances within the American system, it's not like his going to declare himself fuhrer and set up concentration camps. The guy may be an idiot when it comes to basic economics but it doesn't mean his a totalitarian.

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6 minutes ago, humanbeing101 said:

You're acting as if it's the end of the world. He is doing exactly what he said. He'd engage in neo-mercentalism, that's what he is doing. He would scrap NAFTA and the TPP, he is doing that. Limit immigration and visa controls on muslim countries, doing that. 

Secondly you negate there are still checks and balances within the American system, it's not like his going to declare himself fuhrer and set up concentration camps. The guy may be an idiot when it comes to basic economics but it doesn't mean his a totalitarian.

And you're underestimating the gravity of the situation.

With all respect, and I say this as someone with graduate degrees in political science, your second paragraph is dead wrong.  The system of checks and balances has been under siege, ignored, watered down, and dismantled to the point where he will eventually legally strengthen executive power in a manner not unlike but far exceeding two of the worst presidents in the nation's history: Richard Nixon and George W Bush. Both sought to strengthen the executive and rule by executive order rather than legislative process.

Checks and balances aside, we are seeing the erosion of democratic process, of a free and independent press, and of an independent judiciary; and although these were not specifically enshrined in the Constitution, the founders understood them to be necessary, so again, I say that he is indeed an aspiring totalitarian and he has many wiling accomplices who will be happy to put on brown shirts and goose step down memory lane, and anyone who disagrees is being willfully blind or a sympathizer.  Watch as they emulate tactic after tactic used by the NSDAP to convince the German populace to bring them to power, and once there they never give it back; coincidentally, many of the psychologically manipulative things the Nazi propaganda machine did were coopted by US intelligence during the cold war, and have since been applied to business and marketing, and I don't think I need to mention Herr Drumpf's background.

 

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2 minutes ago, E.L King said:

I think a lot of people are exaggerating. I agree with brother @humanbeing101.

Plus if the government turns tyrannical (it already is but...) - the American people are armed to the max.. so..

I think you're talking about my post.  The wrong ones are armed.  The same people who voted for him are the ones with the guns. 

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7 minutes ago, reisiger said:

And you're underestimating the gravity of the situation.

With all respect, and I say this as someone with graduate degrees in political science, your second paragraph is dead wrong.  The system of checks and balances has been under siege, ignored, watered down, and dismantled to the point where he will eventually legally strengthen executive power in a manner not unlike but far exceeding two of the worst presidents in the nation's history: Richard Nixon and George W Bush. Both sought to strengthen the executive and rule by executive order rather than legislative process.

Checks and balances aside, we are seeing the erosion of democratic process, of a free and independent press, and of an independent judiciary; and although these were not specifically enshrined in the Constitution, the founders understood them to be necessary, so again, I say that he is indeed an aspiring totalitarian and he has many wiling accomplices who will be happy to put on brown shirts and goose step down memory lane, and anyone who disagrees is being willfully blind or a sympathizer.  Watch as they emulate tactic after tactic used by the NSDAP to convince the German populace to bring them to power, and once there they never give it back; coincidentally, many of the psychologically manipulative things the Nazi propaganda machine did were coopted by US intelligence during the cold war, and have since been applied to business and marketing, and I don't think I need to mention Herr Drumpf's background.

 

Oh for God's sake man get a grip of yourself.

I also study political science at uni, sure I'm not some expert of American politics, since in Britain our focus is more so on Britain. However Trump cannot legislate, so there is nothing to worry about. Honestly I support a more authoritarian approach to governance anyway. All I see is him exercising his power and flexing his political muscles, it's hardly Nazi Germany lol.

Man the NSDAP example isn't even a strong one. Firstly the political system of the Weimar republic was and is completely different to that of America. Their system revolves around the chancellor legislative, whilst the presidency having specific executive ones such as Article 48, which the president Hindeberg enacted. Secondly Hitler had a very large paramilitary, namely the SA and SS. Trump doesn't have such power. He'd have to rely on the US military, and you're assuming they'd be on his side in this fascist takeover. 

I would also stress when has your media ever been "free"? I mean mainstream media in America has always bee pro-establishment and corporatist. 

Lastly if you honestly think the USA is heading for a Nazi Germany like state, then my country by the logic is the hell itself lol. I'm Kurdish our president has both executive and legislative power, and a paramilitary and controls the media.

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22 minutes ago, notme said:

Maybe Donald isn't an idiot. Maybe he's making a concerted effort to destroy the United States. If that's his plan, he's been remarkably successful for such a short time.

I don't think he's trying to destroy the US, but I do think he is trying to hook up the wealthiest; the problem is that the things they want in effect do destroy the US in terms of the legal system, the polity, the economic system- people are fooled because the dow hit 20000 this morning.  Meaningless. it only means that the super rich are buying more.  The interests of the wealthiest run counter to the interests of the have-nots, and their behavior and their aspirations will lead to hyper stratification of wealth, increased agitation and public anger at a failed and  unresponsive political system, leaders owned by corporates and ultra wealthy campaign contributors; this will lead eventually to insurrection, rioting, violence, etc.  That will require a "law and order" response; which leads to things like curfews, martial law, increased and illegal surveillance... the list goes on, but at the end of it all, in effect, it destroys the US as we know it.

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2 minutes ago, reisiger said:

I think you're talking about my post.  The wrong ones are armed.  The same people who voted for him are the ones with the guns. 

Yes your post and others posts. What I mean tyrannical is that he becomes Hitler, simply being a bigot would not cut it. Many Presidents before him were "bigots" but they were not dictators and could never become dictators because the constitution and the American people will never let that happen.

He could never, say, crackdown on free speech.

I think what we're going to see is relatively George W Bush 2.0, nothing more.

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Just now, humanbeing101 said:

Oh for God's sake man get a grip of yourself.

I also study political science at uni, sure I'm not some expert of American politics, since in Britain our focus is more so on Britain. However Trump cannot legislate, so there is nothing to worry about. Honestly I support a more authoritarian approach to governance anyway. All I see is him exercising his power and flexing his political muscles, it's hardly Nazi Germany lol.

Man the NSDAP example isn't even a strong one. Firstly the political system of the Weimar republic was and is completely different to that of America. Their system revolves around the chancellor legislative, whilst the presidency having specific executive ones such as Article 48, which the president Hindeberg enacted. Secondly Hitler had a very large paramilitary, namely the SA and SS. Trump doesn't have such power. He'd have to rely on the US military, and you're assuming they'd be on his side in this fascist takeover. 

I would also stress when has your media ever been "free"? I mean mainstream media in America has always bee pro-establishment and corporatist. 

Lastly if you honestly think the USA is heading for a Nazi Germany like state, then my country by the logic is the hell itself lol. I'm Kurdish our president has both executive and legislative power, and a paramilitary and controls the media.

I wish I had the time to prove you wrong, and I could.  I don't believe democracy leads to good governance, but I reject utterly the notion that  authoritarianism is somehow better. 

As for your points on the American media, you fail to look earlier than the 20th century. 

But honestly, arguing on the internet is like winning the special Olympics.  Either way, you're still retarded.

On that note, I didn't think conversations on this site could be more annoying than the obsession with fiqh and mutah.  Sadly, on that note, I was wrong.

Goodbye SC.  I wish I had stayed gone when I originally left.

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Can someone explain to me what executive orders are? Is that like a president can bypass the government and implement policies. So those saying Obama had no power to block arms sales to Saudi Arabia and cut-off aid to Israel are therefore wrong? Because he could've signed an executive order to do that?

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17 minutes ago, E.L King said:

the American people are armed to the max.. so..

Hunting rifles and handguns hardly stand a chance against drones and chemical weapons.

 

31 minutes ago, humanbeing101 said:

Well he is a Russian agent. :D

It wouldn't surprise me.

 

16 minutes ago, magma said:

Which issues get executive orders and which must be legislated through Congress?

I'd like to know the answer to this too.

 

8 minutes ago, E.L King said:

He could never, say, crackdown on free speech.

Please explain the censorship of all references to research on climate change on the White House and EPA websites, and the media blackout and social media restriction of the EPA, USDA, and National Park Service employees.

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@reisiger

2 minutes ago, reisiger said:

I wish I had the time to prove you wrong, and I could.  I don't believe democracy leads to good governance, but I reject utterly the notion that  authoritarianism is somehow better. 

I'm not sure I understand your position. What do you believe then? 

Authoritarianism is a means of making government more efficient and allowing for a centralisation of government to occur. You can cut the bureaucracy via that route and corruption even. 

5 minutes ago, reisiger said:

As for your points on the American media, you fail to look earlier than the 20th century.

No I don't but you fail to recognize that economics ties into this. This is because Capitalism gives rise to Neo-Liberalism, which in turn gives rise to Corporatism, which in turn gives rise to bought out media outlets. 

 

6 minutes ago, reisiger said:

But honestly, arguing on the internet is like winning the special Olympics.  Either way, you're still retarded.

That's abit rude and defeatist. If you are strong in your beliefs, then you will defend your points/arguments with evidence and an explanation. 

 

8 minutes ago, reisiger said:

Goodbye SC.  I wish I had stayed gone when I originally left.

Goodbye.

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Also, how funny is it that Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey are not on the list of countries that visas will not be issued from, LOL, such a clueless policy, punishing the victims of terrorism, not the cause and they think this will stop terrorism? What a joke. Sometimes I am shocked at how much ignorance prevails in this country.

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1 minute ago, notme said:

Hunting rifles and handguns hardly stand a chance against drones and chemical weapons.

 

It wouldn't surprise me.

 

I'd like to know the answer to this too.

 

Please explain the censorship of all references to research on climate change on the White House and EPA websites, and the media blackout and social media restriction of the EPA, USDA, and National Park Service employees.

What evidence do you have for any of these claims? 

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Brothers/sisters

While Trump [as bernie himself said] destroyed the republican and democratic establishments, and has hurt the media one, ultimately, the man is corrupt himself and let us celebrate the indirect effects of what he has done, without glorifying him.

He is going to ruin lives for so many americans in the middle and working class.

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19 minutes ago, humanbeing101 said:

What evidence do you have for any of these claims? 

whitehouse.gov ?

 

Actually I know people. I'm taking their word for it, but I'll look for verification. I'll look for a list of recent executive orders.

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33 minutes ago, humanbeing101 said:

What evidence do you have for any of these claims? 

Some are exec. orders, some are presidential memoranda, some are unverified at this time.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/rundown/10-executive-actions-trump-signed-far

 

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Note that executive orders have been used since Washington, the most famous being Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation, but they are not in the Constitution. They are not described in the Constitution, but they aren't specifically prohibited either. Historically they've been used only in emergencies.

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56 minutes ago, notme said:

Hunting rifles and handguns hardly stand a chance against drones and chemical weapons.

You think he's going to use excessive military force against his own people without any reprecussions from other powerful people?

And you think the military will just let that happen?

This isn't 1923 sister. 

58 minutes ago, notme said:

Please explain the censorship of all references to research on climate change on the White House and EPA websites, and the media blackout and social media restriction of the EPA, USDA, and National Park Service employees.

First of all those government agencies are under his control, he has a right over them. That is not cracking down on free speech like say, closing down MSNBC cause they insulted him or something like that.

That's just not how things work in the West, I think many people are very afraid for no reason.

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25 minutes ago, notme said:

You claimed he was engaging in "censorship", where is this exactly? 

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Everything I'm seeing indicates that he thinks his power is unlimited. I don't think he cares about consequences. 

I do have a tendency toward paranoia when it comes to government, I recognize that. But he's just way overfeeding this tendency. I can't unsee and I can't unthink. Convince me and I'll change my mind. Just saying "you are wrong" isn't enough.

 

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2 minutes ago, humanbeing101 said:

You claimed he was engaging in "censorship", where is this exactly? 

I do not see any verification of this claim on the White House website. I was just accepting the word of people who work for one of these agencies. It wouldn't surprise me if it is true, but right now these claims are unverified.

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7 minutes ago, notme said:

Everything I'm seeing indicates that he thinks his power is unlimited. I don't think he cares about consequences. 

I do have a tendency toward paranoia when it comes to government, I recognize that. But he's just way overfeeding this tendency. I can't unsee and I can't unthink. Convince me and I'll change my mind. Just saying "you are wrong" isn't enough.

 

Trump has only done what 10 executive orders. If you look at Obama he has done over 270 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_executive_orders#Barack_Obama_.282009.E2.80.932017.29 Clinton did over 350. 

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Just now, humanbeing101 said:

Trump has only done what 10 executive orders. If you look at Obama he has done over 270 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_executive_orders#Barack_Obama_.282009.E2.80.932017.29 Clinton did over 350. 

And Roosevelt had over 3500, but he was dealing with an emergency financial situation at that time. Since Bush Sr, the executive power has been increasing more than I'm comfortable with. What happened to checks and balances? 

Executive orders are not in the Constitution. We can outlaw them. They are tradition, not law. 

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2 minutes ago, notme said:

And Roosevelt had over 3500, but he was dealing with an emergency financial situation at that time. Since Bush Sr, the executive power has been increasing more than I'm comfortable with. What happened to checks and balances? 

Executive orders are not in the Constitution. We can outlaw them. They are tradition, not law. 

If a president couldn't enact executive orders, America's government would be dysfunctional. Considering your House of Rep and Congress are partisan. 

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6 minutes ago, humanbeing101 said:

If a president couldn't enact executive orders, America's government would be dysfunctional. Considering your House of Rep and Congress are partisan. 

That needs to be fixed too. The government is a necessary evil, a "lesser evil", which only exists to serve the people to ensure that rights are protected. They all need to be reminded of that periodically. 

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