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In the Name of God بسم الله
Haji 2003

Donald J. Trump [OFFICIAL THREAD]

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1 hour ago, notme said:

Sadly, a lot of people don't know any better. I've come to realize they aren't very different from daesh recruits - ignorant and angry, looking for someone to fight, someone to blame. 

Do not agree. Anecdotals do not equate to momentum. You're an engineer, the same in those calculations.

13 hours ago, Sinan said:

I was under the impression that the majority of people on this forum support Donald Trump as the lesser of the evils due to his stance on foreign policy....? (Support for Assad, support for being neutral in Israeli-Palestinian conflict as opposed to Clinton's "unwavering support for Israel's security", etc.)?

I was under the opposite impression.

13 hours ago, Spiritual said:

Along with the points you have mentioned, do you know his policy on Iran, Iraq, China, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Korea etc.
 

Trump does not know either.

11 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

I'll tell you one thing, if you guys want to make some quick cash, I would buy blue chip stocks like Ford, GM, Facebook, etc. They will tank the next few days but will recover once people figure out what the heck is going on for the next four years. 

 

To my brothers and sisters, calm down. Take a deep breath. Everything will be ok. Allah(s.w.a) is still in charge. For the brothers and sisters living outside the US, US foreign policy will be the same, whether it is Clinton or Trump as president. The president has nothing to do with foreign policy, it is controlled by others. 

Now I have to figure out what to tell me kids, lol. 

They're about to wake up. 

:confused:

Too late. That money was made this morning, the 9th.

10 hours ago, Khadim uz Zahra said:

I'm also very interested in seeing the voter participation. I wonder how many people just decided to not vote at all.

The radio said that a surge in unemployed white males made the difference.

8 hours ago, magma said:

Did any of you predict this? I know @Haji 2003 did. 

No, l did not.  l was able to extrapolate my local attitudes into a Trump win in my state, but definitely not the wide margin he won by.

4 hours ago, notme said:

A lot of my friends and family are genuinely afraid of what might happen over the next four years. I figure probably most of us can survive four years. I just fear possibly not getting another election then. 

 

Do not be. You are not an illegal alien. What was it Trump said? "...until our Representatives find out what the Hell is going on." That is, after Congressional hearings. 

Hi-Liar's campaign spent a lot of money fear-mongering the Muslim community -to win Michigan- and money to forment "talking points".

My ex this morning called me on her way to work, crying over the telephone because of this internally-driven hysteria.

2 hours ago, Sayed Hassan Y. said:

Not half the population. Only about 115M people out of 350M voted in this election, and half of that voted for trump. About 16% of Americans voted for Trump.

US population is currently ~320 million.

2 hours ago, hameedeh said:

I am so bad at math I am giving up on the numbers. 

:D

2 hours ago, Marbles said:

Here's a very interesting essay if someone is in a mood for a long read.

"Democracies End...when they are too democratic. And right now, America is a breeding ground for tyranny."

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trump.html

I'll read later, inshallah.

2 hours ago, sidnaq said:

What doyou think? WELL THANK GOD FOR IRAN!!!!!!!!!!! 

Viva la Islamic Revolutions.

1 hour ago, ShiaChat Moderator said:

Soured milk? 

Expiration date. lmplying that America has 'expired'. Not yet we haven't.

40 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

Yes that is the risk, but I think the approach works on the assumption that even if highlighting the danger would galvanise Clinton voters, the risk of normalising Trump was too great.

If you look at some articles today, the fear now is that the genie is out of the bottle and this election will encourage more far-right voters in other countries.

 

Yes, I think that is explained by (my assumption) that there was no shame in admitting that you wanted to vote for Ahmedinejad, whereas I'd say some people may have been embarrassed admitting to voting for Trump.

This "encouragement" will also encourage moderates to counter this.

In a continuation of the hysterical feelings in Europe, this weekend, all Defense Ministers in the EU will meet to discuss this Election and its possible implications. "Implications meaning how much more money it will cost their Defense budgets with Trump's intended expansion of the Nixon Doctrine.

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5 hours ago, notme said:

Sorry man, the numbers don't work for that. 

I beg to differ.

http://www.newsweek.com/susan-sarandon-third-party-candidates-jill-stein-gary-johnson-hillary-clinton-519032

Quote

Johnson, the candidate known to many as the man who didn’t know what Aleppo was, scored 3 percent of the overall popular vote, with around four million people voting for him. Stein took 1 percent, or close to 1.2 million votes. For both candidates, this was a dramatic increase from the 2012 election where Johnson took 0.99 percent of the vote and Stein 0.36 percent...

In Florida, the U.S.’s joint third-largest state in terms of electoral college votes (it has 29), and the country’s largest swing state, the gap between the Republican and the Democratic nominee was 128,863 votes. Johnson alone took 204,854 votes. (Stein secured 63,664).

In the swing states of Colorado, Michigan, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, the votes cast for Johnson similarly exceeded the gap between Trump and Clinton

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/party-voters-criticized-slim-trump-margins-article-1.2865342

Quote

The vote totals between the Republican and Democrat in battlegrounds such as Florida and Pennsylvania were close enough to have been swayed if minor party voters had supported Clinton.

Green Party nominee Dr. Jill Stein and Libertarian Gary Johnson were immediately compared to 2000 Green candidate Ralph Nader, whose 97,000 votes in Florida could have given the presidency to Al Gore instead of George W. Bush....The vote count was even closer in Pennsylvania where with 99.2% reporting, Stein’s 48,000 votes and Johnson’s 140,000 would have easily closed the 78,000 gap between Clinton and Trump....Almost 30,000 votes for Stein and 100,000 votes for Johnson in Wisconsin also were more than the 75,000 separating Clinton and Trump in Wisconsin.

 

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5 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

Having the popular vote doesn't mean anything if the Electoral College pts don't work out. This is the same thing that happened with Al Gore in 2000. He won the popular vote but lost in the Electoral College. Its a flawed system.

Lowest voter turnout in a few election cycles. However, a 40% voter turnout is considered high in the US. As it stands right now the turnout is around 35% and that's an average amount for the US.

Turnout was actually 56%. 

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2 hours ago, Shaykh Patience101 said:

You have more current information than I had. 

However, Johnson's voters for the most part would have voted for Trump. Stein's voters would be the only ones likely to vote for Clinton. Libertarian is old style Republican. Green is old style Democrat. 

Doesn't matter Trump or Clinton, either would be a loss for America. Choosing between a narcissist and a sociopath isn't easy or fun. There was no way this could have ended well. We're more comfortable with the evil we know, but we're going to have to learn to adapt to an unknown evil. 

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Click on the Google News tab and type the words Trump protest. It's getting violent. People need to go through legal channels to make change. This is really unfortunate.

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9 hours ago, notme said:

True, but nearly half the population chose him. I find that frightening. 

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum Sister,

You shouldn't be frightened.  I know a lot of Arabs, Muslims and relatives who voted for Trump.  I found Hillary to be a hypocrite, I wouldn't classify Trump as one he is an open book and someone unpredictable.  Trump is not politically correct but Hillary knows how to play the game she knows the protocol and thought she would win by putting her game face on and win the presidency.  I'm glad she is in pain right now, she has a lot of blood on her hands, but she is not in pain from all the crimes she committed but she is in pain because she doesn't have power.   Alhamd'Allah, I put my faith in Allah swt that let the Americans taste the sourness and bitterness of what the world is experiencing from American foreign policy. 

Americans have no inkling of being under constant bombing like in Syria and Yemen.  They have no idea of what it feels like a drone dropping bombs in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Somalia.  All this is acceptable to them as collateral damage.  Well, that type of thinking becomes arrogant and thinking we are Americans, our lives our worth more than them and they are invincible. 

It's going to be an exciting four years.  God is the best of planners. 

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

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1 hour ago, Laayla said:

Americans have no inkling of being under constant bombing like in Syria and Yemen.  They have no idea of what it feels like a drone dropping bombs in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Somalia. 

Well the people in Europe who are happiest about the Trump election are the semi-fascist parties, the ones who really, really hate Islam and Muslims.

So I am not entirely sure why they (and Trump) would care any more than Clinton about Muslim bombing casualties.

All I can see from his speeches is that he just wanted the U.S. to gain more politically and financially from any adventures, he's on record as saying that he'd simply have taken Iraqi oil after the invasion.

Edited by Haji 2003

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People who think there will be fewer wars and decreased meddling in Middle Eastern affairs and elsewhere have misread Trump completely.

His soft spot for Putin and hard stance against ISIS shouldn't be taken as an indication that he will go after the Takfiri terrorists, or stop the money & arms flowing into their hands, or take Gulf Arabs to task for funding them. American interests do not permit such a big change, not when Iran remains an "unresolved" issue and Assad stays in power in Syria. The "collateral damage" will increase with intensive bombing to get rid of the terrorists that America wants dead and there will be more draconian policies against Muslims and immigrants at home. 

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Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum Brother Hajj,

I see what you mean.  I'm reading about the Trump effect now.

 

Nov. 10, 2016 | 11:00 AM

Merkel's conservatives warn of Trump effect in Germany

 

Reuters

 

BERLIN: German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble and other conservatives warned Thursday that populists would pose a problem for Europe unless mainstream politicians responded after Donald Trump's victory in the U.S. presidential election.

Trump's win has shaken many European lawmakers ahead of elections next year, including in France and Germany, where right-wing parties are expected to notch up big gains.

"Demagogic populism is not only a problem in America," Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble told Bild daily. "Elsewhere in the West, too, the political debate is in an alarming state."

Chancellor Angela Merkel is widely expected to stand for a fourth term in an election in September and her conservatives are roughly 10 points ahead of their nearest rivals, the Social Democrats who currently share power with her.

However, her open-door migrant policy has angered voters. The right-wing Alternative for Germany (AfD), which has embraced tough anti-immigrant rhetoric, is swaying supporters from the bigger parties. Founded less than four years ago, it now has seats in more than half of Germany's state assemblies.

Schaeuble said politicians had to respond by being more inclusive. His words were echoed by Hans-Peter Friedrich, of Bavaria's CSU - sister party to Merkel's CDU - who said he feared that there could be a Trump effect in Germany.

He said people feel they have no control over things, including European Central Bank policy and immigration, he said.

"If there are no answers provided by the main parties in our country, they will turn to populists," Friedrich told Bild.

Germany's EU Commissioner Guenther Oettinger, a senior member of Merkel's conservative, told German radio that the U.S. election was a warning for Germany.

"Things are getting simplified, black or white, good or bad, right or wrong. You can asked simple questions, but one should not give simple answers," Oettinger told Deutschlandfunk radio.

He said politicians and media should better explain complicated things with facts, but they should also embrace social media to reach younger voters in the new digital world.

The AfD, polling at around 13 percent, Wednesday welcomed Trump's victory as the disempowerment of political elites.

INSA chief Hermann Binkert told Bild politicians had not taken on board the warning signs and a growing number of people had rejected the established parties and turned to the AfD.

However, polls show a majority of Germans still reject rabble rousing slogans. A Politbarometer poll for broadcaster ZDF showed some 82 percent of Germans think it is bad or very bad that Trump became president.

Experts also argue that Germany's political system, established after World War Two to avoid the rise of another dictator after Hitler, makes the rise of individual politicians like Trump or even a single party difficult.

The poll also showed that 65 percent of Germans expect relations with the U.S. to deteriorate under Trump.

After World War Two, the United States was one of the closest allies of West Germany - then the front line in the Cold War. Since the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, ties have remained close but a scandal about NSA mass surveillance in Germany have chilled relations.

Merkel has offered to work closely with Trump on the basis of shared values, such as democracy, freedom, respect for the rule of law and people's race, religion and gender.

 

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/World/2016/Nov-10/380570-merkels-conservatives-warn-of-trump-effect-in-germany.ashx

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4 hours ago, Marbles said:

more draconian policies against Muslims and immigrants at home

There could be an opportunity here. You could turn a small part of your farm into a 5* refugee camp.

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19 hours ago, Sayed Hassan Y. said:

Hillary would have established a no-fly zone in Syria which would result a WW3, so I'm glad that Trump won as he publicly said he wants a good relation with Russia.

Would would a good relation with Russia mean or lead to? I can really foresee a drastic change to the foreign policy. 

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So... haha, Ya Allah....

231 556 622 people in america had the option to vote.

25,6 % voted for snake clinton(la)

25,5 & voted for idiot trump(la)

46,9% people who could vote did not vote AT ALL.

Also:

Over 11 000 people voted for the dead gorilla harambe...

 

Nice democracy bro, pretty much only half of the population that could vote did not even bother and both the candidates were in fact PROVEN to be corrupt before the actual voting day.

 

Long live America, land of the free, home of the slaves :)

tumblr_nlyjzui9s61twpg5io1_500.jpg

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The Founding Fathers of the Republic of the United States of America framed this democracy using the Electoral College (Electors) instead of a direct democracy because they were "worried that rash decision-making by the collective body politic would be “radically vicious” or “liable to deceptions” if they directly elected the president, for the people would lack the “capacity to judge” candidates." - USA Today.

James Madison put it, that “factions” of citizens with a common interest don’t harm the nation as a whole.

Alexander Hamilton thought the electors would make sure that “the office of president will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications.”

On Dec 19, 2016, 538 Electors will cast their votes for the President/Vice-President of the USA in their respective states. Historically, only 1% of Electors have ever gone against the popular vote known as "Faithless Electors".

If only 10% of the Electors do the right thing for the country instead of their party, Hillary Clinton could still be elected as POTUS.

The chances of this happening are slim to none. But that would restore everyone's faith in our version of democracy and definitely MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.

 

#FaithlessElectors

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35 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

The Founding Fathers of the Republic of the United States of America framed this democracy using the Electoral College (Electors) instead of a direct democracy because they were "worried that rash decision-making by the collective body politic would be “radically vicious” or “liable to deceptions” if they directly elected the president, for the people would lack the “capacity to judge” candidates." - USA Today.

James Madison put it, that “factions” of citizens with a common interest don’t harm the nation as a whole.

Alexander Hamilton thought the electors would make sure that “the office of president will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications.”

On Dec 19, 2016, 538 Electors will cast their votes for the President/Vice-President of the USA in their respective states. Historically, only 1% of Electors have ever gone against the popular vote known as "Faithless Electors".

If only 10% of the Electors do the right thing for the country instead of their party, Hillary Clinton could still be elected as POTUS.

The chances of this happening are slim to none. But that would restore everyone's faith in our version of democracy and definitely MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.

 

#FaithlessElectors

 

Yeah and this year the faithless electors voted for harambe... LOL!

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1 hour ago, IbnSina said:

 

Yeah and this year the faithless electors voted for harambe... LOL!

Electors are not the regular public. They are a select group of 538 people who actually cast the vote for POTUS/VPOTUS. They decide ultimately although they are supposed to follow their state's majority vote, there is nothing constitutionally forcing them to do so. 

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5 hours ago, E.L King said:

Didn't my man @Haydar Husayn say he won't win? :)

I don't remember, but I have to admit I didn't think there were enough people who weren't brainwashed by liberalism to vote for him. Obviously I was wrong about that.

Let's see what happens now. I'm hopeful that at least we might have some respite from the endless interfering and in Muslim countries, and the forwards march of the LGBT nonsense.

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1 minute ago, Marbles said:

I've seen this, but I'm actually skeptical. Just because it's on the internet doesn't mean it's real. I think this is like the "scary clown" fad: people described fictional incidents online until eventually real people decided that if it was that common they wanted to get in on it. I think it's manipulation. I hope it's just manipulation and I hope it fails.

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2 minutes ago, notme said:

I've seen this, but I'm actually skeptical. Just because it's on the internet doesn't mean it's real. I think this is like the "scary clown" fad: people described fictional incidents online until eventually real people decided that if it was that common they wanted to get in on it. I think it's manipulation. I hope it's just manipulation and I hope it fails.

There was a spike in racist incidents after the Brexit. A similar reaction was expected in the US after Trump's victory. I have no way of knowing how many of these reports are genuine, but it'd be good to know that so many incidents did not happen. There are millions of people out there and a handful of incidents that make it to the interweb are reposted and retweeted so many times that it looks a lot bigger than it is. Anyway I hope that the initial euphoria of the racist xenophobes whittles away soon. I wish safety to Muslims, immigrants, minorities and women. Stay safe.

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What is worse than Trump himself is the fact that republicans have congress and Trump is going to appoint some of the most dangerous personalities to important positions. Just look at some of the names that keep propping up, it is downright frightening.  Another problem is that a lot of people naively think that the current republican establishment resembles that of Bush Jr, and it wouldn't be all that different to Obama.  This is a mistake, the republicans have regressed even further over the past 8 years.  Some of the rhetoric coming out of Ted Cruz's or Rubio's camp in the primaries was a heck of a lot more extreme than anything the Bush administration was advocating.

Edited by King

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2 hours ago, Haydar Husayn said:

Let's see what happens now. I'm hopeful that at least we might have some respite from the endless interfering and in Muslim countries, and the forwards march of the LGBT nonsense.

The problem with the U.S. taking a back seat is that the Israelis will now have more of a blank cheque to do what they like.

So less LGBTQ and more new facts on the ground.

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3 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

The problem with the U.S. taking a back seat is that the Israelis will now have more of a blank cheque to do what they like.

So less LGBTQ and more new facts on the ground.

Seems to me that the Israelis have pretty much been doing what they want anyway. During the Obama years we've had Operation Cast Lead (2008-09), Operation Returning Echo (2012), Operation Pillar of Defense (2012), and Operation Protective Edge (2014). Meanwhile they've still been increasing their settlements, while the US has still vetoed any attempt in the UN to condemn those settlements as illegal.

Even if Trump ends up being worse than Bush and Obama combined (which is very hard to imagine), it would still be preferable to Hillary, because at least Muslims will be under no illusions about Trump. The unfortunate thing about many Muslims is that they often have liberal inclinations, so are generally more sympathetic towards politicians on the left, especially those that say the right things in public. Obama has in many ways been worse than Bush, but because of his public persona, and his rhetoric, many Muslims don't see him for what he is, while they despised Bush.

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Trump is speaking about abolishing Dodd-Frank and he wants to make James Dimon (JPMorgan president) the treasury secretary? http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/10/donald-trump-advisors-considered-jpmorgans-jamie-dimon-for-treasury-secretary-sources.html

Turkeys voted for Christmas.

Edited by Muhammed Ali

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1 hour ago, Marbles said:

There was a spike in racist incidents after the Brexit. A similar reaction was expected in the US after Trump's victory. I have no way of knowing how many of these reports are genuine, but it'd be good to know that so many incidents did not happen. There are millions of people out there and a handful of incidents that make it to the interweb are reposted and retweeted so many times that it looks a lot bigger than it is. Anyway I hope that the initial euphoria of the racist xenophobes whittles away soon. I wish safety to Muslims, immigrants, minorities and women. Stay safe.

Turns out at least some are true. I am deeply disappointed in humans. 

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1 hour ago, Marbles said:

These social Twitter reports of abuse are appalling. I pray that all Muslims, women, people of color remain safe and everyone comes to their aid if they see anyone committing verbal or physical abuse. 

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48 minutes ago, Muhammed Ali said:

Trump is speaking about abolishing Dodd-Frank and he wants to make James Dimon (JPMorgan president) the treasury secretary? http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/10/donald-trump-advisors-considered-jpmorgans-jamie-dimon-for-treasury-secretary-sources.html

Turkeys voted for Christmas.

They were voting for Christmas either way in that respect, since Clinton has been bought and paid for by the banks for a long time.

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On ‎11‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 3:57 PM, Marbles said:

Here's a very interesting essay if someone is in a mood for a long read.

"Democracies End...when they are too democratic. And right now, America is a breeding ground for tyranny."

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trump.html

Read it, as l wrote l would above.

Back in the late 60s and early 70s, columnists like James Buchannan were always referring to Plato's Republic like it was some kind of Biblical-level authority.

So when l did get around to reading it -for class- l was really disappointed. Devoid of real insight. Passing platitudes. Mostly jibberish.

Therefore, when someone starts quoting Greecey cwap, l figure they have no real point to make.

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Trump's victory means one of two things, either he and his followers become more motivated/emboldened, or more subdued/pacified. Why are people automatically assuming the former? 

They know how to bark when they are in the "opposition" (i.e. no responsibility/accountability) and feel very comfortable in that role, but when actual inside power is held, and boring bureaucratic things must be done? 

That's not as fun, doesn't rile up the feelings, so they become lazy, staring at their trophy with a beer in hand. That's what we may see here. So I don't get why people are poking at them. Leave them alone and let them have their day, if they're not hurting you. 

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Alls I can say is:

 

it's fun to revel in the pain of Killary, her die-hard stans, the media (which was shilling for her the entire election), CAIR, takfiri terrorists in Syria (she was THEIR candidate), Saudis and Qataris, and so on...

 

Trump is a pile of AIDS but Killary was clearly the establishment's pet. And it is nice to see them squirm at least for a little bit.

 

As for long term consequences, maybe this can trigger some more passions and emotions from an otherwise apathetic and complacent populace.

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