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Haji 2003

Donald J. Trump [OFFICIAL THREAD]

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28 minutes ago, Khadim uz Zahra said:

You're missing the point. You're looking at the election as a non-American Muslim. Look at it as a non-Muslim American. Americans don't care much about foreign policy at this point. They are almost numb to the wars their leaders have started. Sure, there's always outrage over Iraq and Afghanistan but, even then, the outrage is more over how they spent trillions of dollars, not over how many people were killed or how they may have been unjustified. Sure, they'll shout about how the intelligence on Iraq was wrong but it's more "you spent trillions on nothing!" rather than "you spent trillions on killing innocents." That's why you don't see them complaining much about wars in Syria and Yemen, especially because their politicians have now become wiser and stopped sending troops on the ground, which has always been the main factor in war weariness, not the morality of it all or even the money lost but the friends and family killed. On the other hand, their current moral and ethical paradigm is built on women's rights to a great degree and acceptance of the LGBT community to different levels among different demographics with different political affiliations.

On one hand, you have a guy insulting women, something that they apparently do care about, and on the other the peddler of unjustified wars, which you don't care about. Even though Trump has won, no one will argue that he did so because, in the mind of the average American, he had was on the moral high ground. He won because he moaned and complained about what the people hated about their current state of affairs, not because they believed he was the morally upstanding choice and that is why I asked the question: are they so dissatisfied that they'll forego their own moral standards or do they simply not ascribe to those moral standards in reality?

Well that's the problem don't you think? Judging a person by the flawed moral standard of his or her population? 

How about we judge this based on how our Religion judges this?

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19 minutes ago, E.L King said:

Well that's the problem don't you think? Judging a person by the flawed moral standard of his or her population? 

How about we judge this based on how our Religion judges this?

Again, you're missing the point. This is not an analysis of who should win according to me but, rather, who did win and why the Americans voted for him. Thus, when asking questions about their collective state of mind and their collective decision, you need to refer to their collective standards of morality.

Secondly, even if we were doing the former, judging by our own religion's standards, I don't see how Trump is better than Hillary. If Hillary is Muaviyah, Trump is Yazid. I can't decide on which one is worse but I'd think Yazid.

Edited by Khadim uz Zahra

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Inside I feel quite happy after hearing the news, I am not entirely sure why and I'm letting it sink in. Probably it is because of the possibility that under Trump the American foreign policy might tweak enough that its military will stop raping the world and the future of mankind? We all know that was impossible under Hillary who has always been a part of the biggest problem on this planet. Perhaps now we can rest easy without fear of WW3? Sadly, knowing what Obama did, we can only hope.

So Trump is also a bigot, so what, he is a defensive bigot and not a vicious mass murderer (yet). So he might change the immigration policy or bring immigrants under the microscope, so what, only the terrorist / terrorist sympathizing sort need worry. Americans have the full, natural right to control immigration to their country and shape it the way they want. And I hope they do things beneficial not only for themselves but all mankind.

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17 minutes ago, Khadim uz Zahra said:

Again, you're missing the point. This is not an analysis of who should win according to me but, rather, who did win and why the Americans voted for him. Thus, when asking questions about their collective state of mind and their collective decision, you need to refer to their collective standards of morality.

Secondly, even if we were doing the former, judging by our own religion's standards, I don't see how Trump is better than Hillary. If Hillary is Muaviyah, Trump is Yazid. I can't decide on which one is worse but I'd think Yazid.

I never said one is better than the other.

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With Hillary's loss, Saudi investment in US political system is doomed, at least for next few years.

DNC got what it deserved by denying what we the people wanted i.e. Bernie. This was the revenge of the liberals on DNC for treating them like cattle.

Hillary got a befitting slap on face for her arrogance; goddess mother of war had been acting like already elected Kali for Syria and Yemen throughout her campaign.

Remember Bill Clinton, Monica and the cigars, wait till this dirty man tastes the power. People would be switching from porn to CNN and FOX for nightly entertainment.

Uncertainty on every front, healthcare, economy, taxes, jobs, banking. Trump never had a plan except for a few rhetorical menacing words. He will have to sit with the same republican old guard for real policy work which will make it look like Bush era all over again.

Israel came out as a winner anyway no matter who won.

Race towards a multi-polar world entered a new era. Russia and China would out maneuver Trump administration and solidify their place in international politics even further.

ME is miles steps closer to be an Iranian hegemony; reduced wahabi influence as they had placed all their eggs in DNC basket.  

If Trump gets trapped by war mongers, which he may given his distorted vision, empire will crumble faster than it had crumbled under Bush Jr. / If Trump doesn't get trapped, WWIII is postponed by at least four years. / If Trump doesn't get trapped, wait for another false flag 9/11 to twist his arms into another war.

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^ other giveaways were the locations where Clinton was campaigning in the last few days, they should have been taken for granted states.

 

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43 minutes ago, Muhammed Ali said:

I was amazed that people accepted the polls. Those 'experts'  on TV are not very good.

I think behavioural science explain this and explains why it is actually deliberate rather than a mistake.

You see, if people think that lots of other people are voting in a particular way, they are more likely to vote that way themselves. People like voting with the crowd. So the MSM would never declare just how much support Trump had.

You can see this also with their coverage of countries like Iran, and that's why I alluded to the similarities between Ahmedinejad and Trump in my prediction post.

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Tim Kaine was talking. Hillary Clinton is giving her concession speech now. Coughing.

Edit: Not really coughing. A lot of throat clearing and swallowing.

Edited by hameedeh
To add Edit.

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Trump the new face of the supposed all-mighty and powerful USA. Don't know if I should laugh or cry.

What i'm interested to know is whether Trump intends to fulfil his promise of reopening Clinton's investigation in it's entirety on the first day in office. 

The investigation would serve great purpose if thoroughly examined. Post-elections, it's no longer only about Hillary, her reputation, conviction for justice, etc., but more importantly to uncover the unknown. In a world where the dollar industries of a few have covertly overshadowed the many, maybe these investigations will allow greater remedial transparency and a punch in the face of corporate hijackers. Some good may unfold from Trumps win, if his big mouth of promises actually delivers (well not all promises - i hope). I noticed he was very vocal against media groups too, especially in his address in Florida, labelling them as "Corrupt" in one way or another. I just hope, regardless of the bad and the ugly, the origins of good has it's place too for what may be the most inexplicably crazy gamble of a presidential term.

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A lot of my friends and family are genuinely afraid of what might happen over the next four years. I figure probably most of us can survive four years. I just fear possibly not getting another election then. 

 

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Well, whether we like it or not this is the new reality that is upon us. A couple of things though that I would have to say I agree with Trump on...

  1. Term Limits for Congress - This probably won't happen but the fact that he has brought it up is enough to get the ball rolling on it. Too many crooks and fatcats sitting on the Hill getting kickbacks and "donations" and becoming the definition of a corrupt Politician.
  2. Cleaning up DC - Again, I doubt this is going to happen but just the fact that its come to light in his campaign might be enough to let the public know.
  3. Cleaning up Wall St. - See #2.
  4. Trade Reform - badly needed IMO
  5. For every new Regulation two old ones need to be repealed - Come on we all know there's some nonsense on the books.
  6. Relations with Israel - This is a big ? but he is not beholden to AIPAC for anything. Is he going to change the US policy towards Israel?

I'm not justifying his election or trying to support him in any way. I'm just saying that this is the new reality in which American Shia are now living. 

On a side note, we can discuss all we want about how he ended up getting elected and the various reasons behind it. However, we all seem to be forgetting the key cause for all this fear of Muslims. It was Saudi exporting its Wahabbism to the West which led to this. The fear mongering that Trump peddled was an actual fear that Rural America has. They don't know a Muslim nor have most of them ever had the chance to engage in a convo with one. All they know is what the Media tells them. However, all of that is due to Saudi and its agenda of spreading extremism and now Saudi is the loser in all of this.

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40 minutes ago, Shaykh Patience101 said:

I don't care, I'm blaming this all on Gary Johnson and the Libertarian Party.

Sorry man, the numbers don't work for that. 

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9 hours ago, notme said:

A Trump presidency is a startling unknown. The fact that he won the popular vote is much more alarming. 

Donald Trump is the president-elect, but he didn't get more popular votes than her. Not yet. The final vote count hasn't been established. Tim Kaine said Hillary was ahead by 200,000 votes, but a website that I saw had her ahead in the popular vote by 175,000. Those numbers have probably changed by now.  

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2 minutes ago, hameedeh said:

Donald Trump is the president-elect, but he didn't get more popular votes than her. Not yet. The final vote count hasn't been established. Tim Kaine said Hillary was ahead by 200,000 votes, but a website that I saw had her ahead in the popular vote by 175,000. Those numbers have probably changed by now.  

True, but nearly half the population chose him. I find that frightening. 

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A few jokes to lighten it all up? Favourite tweets I've seen:
 

"Donald Trump is a reminder that you should just apply for that job you want even if you don't have the experience."

"Have you tried turning 2016 off and on again?"

"It's ok America, Kanye West 2020 will fix everything."

"'A singer got Nobel for literature. Trump got presidency. Son, it's a land of possibilities. Don't come back.' An Asian mother on phone to her son."

"Americans do need to build a wall. Around the White House." (that's mine)

"I am sorry America hahahaha! But I hope you will stop telling the world how to rule itself."

The following is not a joke.

A tweet by The Times of India reads (link)

"It’s official, Donald Trump grabs America by the…, Congratulations Mr President-elect!"

Finally:

nv.jpg

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10 minutes ago, notme said:

True, but nearly half the population chose him. I find that frightening. 

Not half the population. Only about 115M people out of 350M voted in this election, and half of that voted for trump. About 16% of Americans voted for Trump.

Edited by Sayed Hassan Y.

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18 minutes ago, hameedeh said:

Donald Trump is the president-elect, but he didn't get more popular votes than her. Not yet. The final vote count hasn't been established. Tim Kaine said Hillary was ahead by 200,000 votes, but a website that I saw had her ahead in the popular vote by 175,000. Those numbers have probably changed by now.  

Having the popular vote doesn't mean anything if the Electoral College pts don't work out. This is the same thing that happened with Al Gore in 2000. He won the popular vote but lost in the Electoral College. Its a flawed system.

6 minutes ago, Sayed Hassan Y. said:

Not half the population. Only about 115M people out of 350M voted in this election, and half of that voted for trump. About 16% of Americans voted for Trump.

Lowest voter turnout in a few election cycles. However, a 40% voter turnout is considered high in the US. As it stands right now the turnout is around 35% and that's an average amount for the US.

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11 minutes ago, Sayed Hassan Y. said:

Not half the population. Only about 115M people out of 350M voted in this election, and half of that voted for trump. About 16% of Americans voted for Trump.

200m are registered to vote. Why are you counting the rest, most of whom would be underage and others who don't bother taking part in the process. 

Half of those who voted, voted for Trump. And he leads the popular vote count too. The last I checked it was 48% against Hilary's 47%.

This is a huge number of people wanting to see Trump at the helm. They have their wish. Let's see how long before they pull their head out of the sand.

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1 minute ago, Marbles said:

200m are registered to vote. Why are you counting the rest, most of whom would be underage and others who don't bother taking part in the process. 

Half of those who voted, voted for Trump. And he leads the popular vote count too. The last I checked it was 48% against Hilary's 47%.

This is a huge number of people wanting to see Trump at the helm. They have their wish. Let's see how long before they pull their head out of the sand.

Yes I know but notme said 'almost half  the population' voted for trump so I was just trying to correct him

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1 minute ago, Sayed Hassan Y. said:

Yes I know but notme said 'almost half  the population' voted for trump so I was just trying to correct him

Okay. She should have said half the 'voting electorate.'

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Here's a very interesting essay if someone is in a mood for a long read.

"Democracies End...when they are too democratic. And right now, America is a breeding ground for tyranny."

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trump.html

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5 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

I think behavioural science explain this and explains why it is actually deliberate rather than a mistake.

You see, if people think that lots of other people are voting in a particular way, they are more likely to vote that way themselves. People like voting with the crowd. So the MSM would never declare just how much support Trump had.

You can see this also with their coverage of countries like Iran, and that's why I alluded to the similarities between Ahmedinejad and Trump in my prediction post.

I agree with your analysis but I wonder if that strategy had the unintended affect of making potential Clinton voters complacent.

In the case of Ahmadinejad the MSM went as far as not mentioning the opinion polls. In that election the polls were accurate.

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24 minutes ago, Muhammed Ali said:

I agree with your analysis but I wonder if that strategy had the unintended affect of making potential Clinton voters complacent.

Yes that is the risk, but I think the approach works on the assumption that even if highlighting the danger would galvanise Clinton voters, the risk of normalising Trump was too great.

If you look at some articles today, the fear now is that the genie is out of the bottle and this election will encourage more far-right voters in other countries.

 

24 minutes ago, Muhammed Ali said:

In the case of Ahmadinejad the MSM went as far as not mentioning the opinion polls. In that election the polls were accurate.

Yes, I think that is explained by (my assumption) that there was no shame in admitting that you wanted to vote for Ahmedinejad, whereas I'd say some people may have been embarrassed admitting to voting for Trump.

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Trump is a smart and savvy businessman and not the lunatic he pretends to be.

He found a core voting group and exploited them to get their votes - the white-hetero-male is the most disenfranchised member of the population and his message appealed to them. His message was simply. The whole world is against you. Speak now or forever hold your peace. And his core demographic spoke.

His actual policies will turn out to be quite different from his rhetoric.

BTW, I voted for Hillary.

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