Donald J. Trump [OFFICIAL THREAD]

[Haji 2003]

This is the full clip from Trump's recent Phoenix speech. The Republican party is pretty good at throwing up some real fruitcakes, remember Sarah Palin? But Trump comes across as savvy. 

He's taken a hit for his anti-immigration/anti-Mexican stance, so he brings up an African-American dude whose lost a son to an illegal immigrant criminal. Neat.

He's against Obamacare but he leavens that by emphasising that they need to help everyone, even if it angers Republicans.

What I can't understand is that if he's candidature fails what will be the knock-on effect on his businesses, because he'll have upset a lot of businesspeople along the way. He pulls no punches with Macy's.

[Khadim uz Zahra]

He's a joke and while preliminary polls do suggest him being second among the Republican armada, you can be sure that the American public won't be so stupid as to elect this guy as president, that's a done deal, not with Hillary also running. He's already a joke among them and this candidacy is a mere show; I would be surprised if even he believed he's getting anything out of this.

[Haji 2003]

On 7/12/2015 at 7:32 AM, Khadim uz Zahra said:

He's a joke ...

Well he may be, but IMHO he's landing punches that I've never seen any previous joke candidate attempt.

He's openly attacked the U.S. ambassador to Japan as being unfit for the job. He's naming blue-chip U.S. corporations' and their investment plans and how he plans to penalise them. He's coming across as being seriously anti-establishment. Added to which is his claim that he's funding himself and so won't be beholden to special interests.

As ever there's more to this than meets the eye. He's extremely anti-Iran and that suggests there is at least one special interest group he knows he needs to pander to.

[Reza]

He's been in the entertainment/TV business for a while.  Theatrics are in his blood.  He's also not a professional politician, so he's playing that card to distinguish himself from the lot. 

[Brained]

Unrelated, but it had me in fits:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420084/donald-trump-puts-camp-campaign

[Renaissance_Man]

Personally, I'm loving the trainwreck that is Donald Trump.  His open bigotry and general buffoonery is bringing down the Republican Party in flames and making the other GOP candidates irrelevant.

I think Trump is speaking the minds of many Republicans and that's why his poll numbers are surging.  If this keeps up, the Democrats will cruise to victory in 2016.

Only bad thing about that is we'll be stuck with Hillary Clinton..unless Bernie Sanders pulls off the impossible and wins it.

[Haydar Husayn]

I can't believe people still take politics seriously, especially in America, where they have just experienced 8 years of Obama. If that isn't enough to make someone lose faith in politics, nothing is. People might as well vote for a clown like Trump. It's not like he's ever be allowed to do anything dangerous anyway. From my point of view, I'd rather have politicians in power who are a little more honest about what they believe, even if I don't particularly like it, than a wolf in sheep's clothing like Obama. As for what Trump is saying, despite his inflammatory rhetoric, it's clear that illegal immigration is a serious problem in America, and it's one that is especially dangerous for the Republicans, since it changes the demographics in favour of the Democrats. Things have almost certainly passed the point of no return though, which is why the other Republican candidates are wishing Trump would stop talking about this stuff.

[baradar_jackson]

^ How does illegal immigration change the demographics in favor of Democrats?

Illegal immigrants don't vote. Not just because they can't, but because they really have no interest in voting. Maybe it could be a problem if these illegal immigrants' kids end up being voters.

But it's not a problem for American society. Vast majority of illegal immigrants in the US come from Mexico. Most of them come to work. They are law-abiding, and in fact remember the scandal when Bank of America was exposed for giving them loans? Well, it turns out they are more faithful to their loans than any other demographic group in these United States of Murica. 

Anyone who lives in California or Texas can tell you that illegal immigration is the least of Murica's problems.

[Haydar Husayn]

On 7/12/2015 at 10:33 PM, baradar_jackson said:

^ How does illegal immigration change the demographics in favor of Democrats?

Illegal immigrants don't vote. Not just because they can't, but because they really have no interest in voting. Maybe it could be a problem if these illegal immigrants' kids end up being voters.

'End up' being voters? It's not like illegal immigration is a new phenomenon. They already have children who are voters, and some others obtained citizenship themselves either through marriage or the child itself. Not only that, but the increase in the population of the Latino population (both legal and illegal) increases the pressure to grant amnesty to illegals.

Quote

But it's not a problem for American society. Vast majority of illegal immigrants in the US come from Mexico. Most of them come to work. They are law-abiding, and in fact remember the scandal when Bank of America was exposed for giving them loans? Well, it turns out they are more faithful to their loans than any other demographic group in these United States of Murica. 

Anyone who lives in California or Texas can tell you that illegal immigration is the least of Murica's problems.

Of course most of them come to work. That's the reason most people try to get into more well-off countries. As for being more law-abiding, this is again not surprising, simply because of the fact that they are illegal. Getting arrested wouldn't be a very smart move. However, there are also those who come for criminal reasons, such as gang members, or people involved with drugs. That's the thing with illegal immigration, you have no idea who is coming in. The fact that most end up being law-abiding (aside from the fact that they broke the law to get/stay in the country in the first place) isn't much comfort if there turns out to be a significant minority who are criminals.

[Haji 2003]

Must say Trump's mockery of McCain and then getting away with it, is almost unbelievable.

[Kasem]

Trump is a phony. He's thought about running for President multiple times, and every time around, he changes ideologies.

He's not a Republican, and he's certainly not a Democrat (he was part of Ross Perot's Reform Party in the late 1990's I believe?)

He's just as bad as Hilary Clinton in regards to having a position and sticking to it. Complete and total flake/phony.

[King]

On 7/12/2015 at 8:00 PM, Haydar Husayn said:

I can't believe people still take politics seriously, especially in America, where they have just experienced 8 years of Obama. If that isn't enough to make someone lose faith in politics, nothing is. People might as well vote for a clown like Trump. It's not like he's ever be allowed to do anything dangerous anyway. From my point of view, I'd rather have politicians in power who are a little more honest about what they believe, even if I don't particularly like it, than a wolf in sheep's clothing like Obama. As for what Trump is saying, despite his inflammatory rhetoric, it's clear that illegal immigration is a serious problem in America, and it's one that is especially dangerous for the Republicans, since it changes the demographics in favour of the Democrats. Things have almost certainly passed the point of no return though, which is why the other Republican candidates are wishing Trump would stop talking about this stuff.

Illegal immigration is more of a blessing for the republicans than a curse, the US economy would literally collapse in 3 seconds if it wasn't for them.

You really think the US government, republican or otherwise couldn't put a stop to illegal immigration in pretty quick time if it really wanted to?

[Abu Hadi]

As if you needed another reason, and it's not as if he has a good chance anyway. 
 
But this is particularly disturbing, coming from a presidential candidate. 
 
The full story is here...
 
http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/17/politics/donald-trump-obama-muslim-new-hampshire/
 
Cnn is trying to make main issue of the comments about Obama, but it is even more than that. 
Here is a portion of the exchange between Donald Trump and a genocidal anti muslim zealot 
at his rally. 
 
"We have a problem in this country. It's called Muslims," an unidentified man who spoke at a question-and-answer town hall event in Rochester, New Hampshire asked the mogul at a rally Thursday night. "You know our current president is one. You know he's not even an American."
A seemingly bewildered Trump interrupted the man, chuckling, "We need this question. This is the first question."
"Anyway, we have training camps growing where they want to kill us," the man, wearing a "Trump" T-shirt, continued. "That's my question: When can we get rid of them?"
"We're going to be looking at a lot of different things," Trump replied. "You know, a lot of people are saying that and a lot of people are saying that bad things are happening. We're going to be looking at that and many other things."

[Hameedeh]

I am wondering if Donald Trump had met this man before or if he knew what he was going to say? Trump said: "This man. I like this guy." before the man even asked his anti-Muslim question.

[LeftCoastMom]

No thinking human should be voting for Trump, Abu Hadi.

Trumpo the clown trying to morph into Rambo the clown?

[monad]

The native should file a law suit and ask that man to leave america, after all, his forefathers, STOLE their land, while having their own training camps as history recalls.

[LeftCoastMom]

.

[Gypsy]

No thinking human should be voting for Trump, Abu Hadi.

Trumpo the clown trying to morph into Rambo the clown?

Donald Trump is/was republican front runner. It's very obvious that he has a lot of support among the people who may not be the best informed or prejudice against Muslim/Islam. You are seeing them popping out eagerly at the republican events, remember John McCain townhall in 2008 when a similar incident happened?

[LeftCoastMom]

Donald Trump is/was republican front runner. It's very obvious that he has a lot of support among the people who may not be the best informed or prejudice against Muslim/Islam. You are seeing them popping out eagerly at the republican events, remember John McCain townhall in 2008 when a similar incident happened?

True, but that is always the case with these things. IMHO, Trump is only interesting because he is plainly a corrupt business tycoon with zero moral compass who is just drumming up support among the ( you're right) terminally ignorant in this country. Speak a few key phrases and they'll follow you anywhere . I personally think he is just talking the talk and could care less about the Republican party's sacred cows. Not sure how prejudiced against Islam he actually is. If he could find a way to exploit Muslims for fun and profit ,he'd be great with them ....after the election. Right now they're only good for grinding up in the mix he's using to chum for votes. People could put revolving doors on the abortion clinics , take scads of drugs, and have carnal knowledge of each other in the streets for all he really cares. Better for the oligarchy if they do and never have a critical thought in their heads. If he ever walked into " his" church with a smidgen of real faith the roof would fall in from the shock. If he gets elected he'll stick it to the country AND his commoner followers. The uber-rich will benefit, no one else.

[Vito_Corleone]

One should never vote for anyone in any election, unless they've seen them do good things in the position they are running for. An incumbent who has actually done something.

[Gypsy]

Not voting for anyone is almost the same as voting because eventually the candidate you don't like the most could end up being the president, all because thanks to you for not voting.

[notme]

I can't tell yet which one is the lesser evil, but I like Sanders's position on the necessity of infrastructure improvement. Only idiots would vote for Trump. I just wish we didn't have so many idiots and I hope they don't end up being the majority.

[Wahdat]

Donald Trump is/was republican front runner. It's very obvious that he has a lot of support among the people who may not be the best informed or prejudice against Muslim/Islam. You are seeing them popping out eagerly at the republican events, remember John McCain townhall in 2008 when a similar incident happened?

If you poll me today...I would probably say that I'd vote for Trump because he simply is entertainment....but when I vote and things get serious I'd definitely take the issue more seriously. Trump is just a clown that brings life to a semi-dead process.

I can't tell yet which one is the lesser evil, but I like Sanders's position on the necessity of infrastructure improvement. Only idiots would vote for Trump. I just wish we didn't have so many idiots and I hope they don't end up being the majority.

 

Bernie Sanders all the way!!!

[LeftCoastMom]

Unfortunately Hillary's machine is going to get geared up soon to go after him. As far as the Republicans go, they still have traction with the older conservative white males and some other groups. For now...until they go extinct. It isn't unusual in any era for young people to poll to the left of their parents, but this time the change may stick. America is becoming more like Europe in its religious preferences ( none or more progressive) and when the Republicans went on a rampage a couple of decades back, bowed to the conservative or fundamentalist evangelicals, the Tea Partiers, etc., then purged the " RHINOS", they set themselves on a collision course with emergent American values. Even their youth tried to warn them...to no avail. Ergo...the present Clown Car. However, some of these clowns resemble the one in the Steven King novel.

[Ibn Al-Shahid]

The native should file a law suit and ask that man to leave america, after all, his forefathers, STOLE their land, while having their own training camps as history recalls.

 

 

I read somewhere (not sure if this is true or not) that not all land was stolen. Some of the land was actually traded for or bought. 

[notme]

I read somewhere (not sure if this is true or not) that not all land was stolen. Some of the land was actually traded for or bought.

Sort of, but not in any reasonable way, and a lot more of it was just usurped by "manifest destiny".

[LeftCoastMom]

I read somewhere (not sure if this is true or not) that not all land was stolen. Some of the land was actually traded for or bought.

Treaties were made which ceded some land so that settlers could live on it in exchange for much of the remaining land and other promises from the US government. Almost all of the treaties were violated by the United States, but they still have the force of federal law which is why reservations are still "sovereign" entities. Some land was bought or traded , but most was simply taken by settlers and the US government was unable or unwilling to stop them. In some cases, treaties were signed in good faith by natives but never ratified by the US...and their land was stolen. It's a complex situation, but what Notme says correct...manifest destiny and all that. Fortunately, the native population is recovering and some reservations are taking more of their traditional land into trust or consolidating their holdings when they have been fragmented, even buying back land from settlers. :-)

[Soldiers and Saffron]

What did you guys think of Ron Paul? What happened to him?

[LeftCoastMom]

RonPaul would hate living in a world formed on his philosophy. Libertarians have a following, just not big enough.

[Vito_Corleone]

Not voting for anyone is almost the same as voting because eventually the candidate you don't like the most could end up being the president, all because thanks to you for not voting.

 

I respectfully disagree. Listen, every person is different and we all have our own issues by which we judge the candidates. There are some issues we consider more important than others when deciding. I understand that. But if a candidate openly says that they support the state of Israel(which almost all candidates on both sides of the aisle do) during a presidential election campaign, I am sorry but I cannot support that candidate, because I as a Muslim feel very strongly about the Israel/Palestine issue as a lot of other Muslims probably would too. That is just one example. I feel that if someone truly thinks the issue is important and is a humanitarian, yet they still vote for the candidate out of hype, to me that is just giving approval and they are indirectly acknowledging and siding with the occupier.

 

And its not just the Israel/Palestine conflict, but there is so many more issues to be decided on than that. Abortion, Gay rights, Iran and foreign policy in general, the Economy. However most of those, if we look at the candidates positions, morally, as a Muslim especially, Do I want to vote for a candidate who is pro-abortion and pro-gay rights? Do I want to vote for a party who has destroyed whole nations like Syria, Iraq, and Libya? Do I want to support a party who supports Israeli genocide? Either side you look at, would you want to give your seal of approval and essential be responsible indirectly for the Haram acts the person you vote into office will do? I wouldn't.

 

That is the difference. When someone who voted for Obama comes up to me and talks about the Israel/Palestine conflict, or Gay Marriage, or whatever issue, I will just look at them and say: "I am not the one that voted him into office" :)

[hasanhh]

Not voting for anyone is almost the same as voting because eventually the candidate you don't like the most could end up being the president, all because thanks to you for not voting.

 

And vote in the Primaries, also. Otherwise, the more "extreme" people wind up as the 'choice' at the General Election.

 

Register folks.

[HabirtheReader]

I expect Donald Trump will win the election and become president. The majority of Americans do not want another Bush or Clinton, and anti-socialist sentiment is too common for Sanders to win a general election.

The people who want Trump are largely White middleclass, the voters who will matter in the swingstates and make the final decision who becomes president. They have flocked to Trump because he promises to close the Mexican border, deport the illegals, and place large tariffs on Asian imports. He's pleasing to the Evangelicals and Islamophobes because he's promising to protect Christians abroad, he's promising to review the Obama-Iran deal, and he's promising to seize IS oil and gas assets in Iraq & Syria.

 

Closing the border with Mexico is appealing because it would end the flow of many drugs into the United States (and Canada), and the flow of weapons into Mexico. Without drugs to sell most gangs would evaporate along with the carnage they inflict. Without drugs to buy many addicts could get their lives on track and stop commiting theft, burglaries, and going into prostitution and pornography to pay for their drug habit. Most prisoners in the US are in for drug crimes, and so there would be far less people in prison and they could return to their families where they are needed. Mexico would benefit also because their massive drug cartels would be weakened and state authority could move into the places they rule. Mexico suffers an immense death toll yearly from its feuding drug cartels. The border certainly should be closed and entry should be strictly controlled.

 

Deporting the illegal immigrants in the US is appealing to the blue collar, American working class because it would open plenty of jobs for them. Businesses hire illegal aliens because they're cheaper than hiring American citizens. Finally these jobs will have to hire Americans and for better wages.

 

Putting large tariffs on Asian imports would result in the return of American manufacturing and heavy industry. By resurrecting Made-In-America, the United States would be absolutely swollen with jobs. It would reverse the current trade balance and the US, already the world's top economy, would be soaring over the other powers.

 

Trump is able to promise all of these things because he is rich, and because he is rich he can't be bought. The American people understand this, and that's why they'll be behind him all the way into the Oval Office.

Edited September 20, 2015 by HabirtheReader

[Haji 2003]

This is an interview of Trump by Palin. Must say that I am impressed by the way she has improved over the previous few years. Contrast it with the next video of her, during her own run (4.25). Obviously not a fan of either of them, but interesting nevertheless. 

 

 

 

[LeftCoastMom]

I expect Donald Trump will win the election and become president. The majority of Americans do not want another Bush or Clinton, and anti-socialist sentiment is too common for Sanders to win a general election.

The people who want Trump are largely White middleclass, the voters who will matter in the swingstates and make the final decision who becomes president. They have flocked to Trump because he promises to close the Mexican border, deport the illegals, and place large tariffs on Asian imports. He's pleasing to the Evangelicals and Islamophobes because he's promising to protect Christians abroad, he's promising to review the Obama-Iran deal, and he's promising to seize IS oil and gas assets in Iraq & Syria.

 

Closing the border with Mexico is appealing because it would end the flow of many drugs into the United States (and Canada), and the flow of weapons into Mexico. Without drugs to sell most gangs would evaporate along with the carnage they inflict. Without drugs to buy many addicts could get their lives on track and stop commiting theft, burglaries, and going into prostitution and pornography to pay for their drug habit. Most prisoners in the US are in for drug crimes, and so there would be far less people in prison and they could return to their families where they are needed. Mexico would benefit also because their massive drug cartels would be weakened and state authority could move into the places they rule. Mexico suffers an immense death toll yearly from its feuding drug cartels. The border certainly should be closed and entry should be strictly controlled.

 

Deporting the illegal immigrants in the US is appealing to the blue collar, American working class because it would open plenty of jobs for them. Businesses hire illegal aliens because they're cheaper than hiring American citizens. Finally these jobs will have to hire Americans and for better wages.

 

Putting large tariffs on Asian imports would result in the return of American manufacturing and heavy industry. By resurrecting Made-In-America, the United States would be absolutely swollen with jobs. It would reverse the current trade balance and the US, already the world's top economy, would be soaring over the other powers.

 

Trump is able to promise all of these things because he is rich, and because he is rich he can't be bought. The American people understand this, and that's why they'll be behind him all the way into the Oval Office.

Well, maybe. People are tired of dynasties (can't wait for the Kennedys to get back in...lol) but not sure they will go for Trump. Too many people, of all groups and parties , have a bad taste in their mouth regarding the uber-wealthy after the bailouts and melt-downs. Plenty of very rich people who were " too rich to be bought" ( remember Mitt?) have been trounced at the polls.

" Being bought" is not just about money, it's about power and alliances. That's why there will be a lot of rhetoric, but borders won't be closed ( not really). It isn't the average small businessmen that drives the undocumented worker labor market . It's the giant corporations and agribusinesses whose owners are richer than Trump and even more influential and powerful. He won't cross them. They will let him talk all he wants, pretend to support him or remain silent, give him money with an " understanding" ,etc. If elected, they will let him get away with a few show raids to appease the hoi polloi, but he had better not interfere with the buses they send to pick up the undocumented at the corners to work in their factories. These disposable people keep their profit margin high and Trump will do nothing about that. The agribusinesses that can't move will pour their considerable resources into fighting any effort to interfere with their bottom line. The businesses that can move out of the US will pick up and do so in search of another population to exploit.

The jobs that require some level of skill, the traditional blue collar jobs, are already long gone overseas and it will be difficult to get them back as long as they have an entire planet to search for workers. That's something else the politicians of both parties failed to prevent or punish. Interestingly enough, there was an experiment run down in SoCal about a few years back where a farmer decided not to hire any undocumented workers for the harvest, but openly offered the jobs at regular pay to American citizens . No one showed up and he had a crop to get in. So the undocumented got the jobs.

The Evangelicals are a shrinking minority losing in power by the day. Their movement stagnated years ago. The young adults in every group are NOT going to anyone's church/synagogue/whatever in growing numbers. America is becoming post-religion. There will always be pockets of the nation where religion is important, but in general the demographics don't look good for Christians of any stripe, except possibly for the moment the Latino Catholics, many of whom ,except the Cubans, won't vote Republican because of the border issue. He's not going to protect Christians or get IS oil abroad because he can't without another war. The American people are tired of war. The young people, who have to fight it, especially are. The only thing keeping that damped down is an all-volunteer military. Any talk of conscription to fill the ranks will jolt them out if their relative complacency tout suite.

"White, middle class "is also a shrinking demographic. The " white" because of the birth rate of minorities and the " middle class" because that category is fast becoming toast due to the policies of both parties, but a lot due to Republicans. The next generation has a nihilistic vision of the future due to high college debt, a service economy ( no longer a manufacturing economy) with jobs not sufficient to pay that debt, much less to buy a house, etc. to build an economic future upon, and very little chance of having the lifestyle their parents had. The white middle class will have some punch for a few more election cycles until the older white middle classers die off ( especially the males). After that, you'd better be brown or mixed like our current President or a white incredibly astute in minority/majority politics, speak Spanish and a scad of other languages fluently, know your way around multiple complex cultures without saying something completely stupid ( Ted Cruz at the Eastern Church leaders meeting),be willing to dump things like AIPAC and realize we have to stop propping up [Edited Out]py regimes for our own gain, and drive a solar-powered car. I'm looking forward to it.

Putting huge tariffs on Asian imports ....well, could work in theory,but there are a lot of issues with that, not the least of which is that prices in the US would likely shoot up. The economies are intertwined. Even American businesses would lose access to cheap parts and shred their profit margin. But, mostly, the rich American owners of Asian-based American multi-national businesses do not want to go through the trouble of relocating back to the land where they have to treat workers like actual human beings and will not let their golfing buddy Trump misbehave too much ( see above).That's why it's not done. Other reasons: the Chinese could retaliate and they have more stamina to win a trade war, they will call in their loans, they will flood other markets and shut the US out.

So....I'm thinking Hillary will be the next Prez. even though I want Sanders and this depresses me. Unlike some of my friends, I will vote even if my favored candidate doesn't get the nod. Sanders won't split the vote and run as an independent. Hillary is a massive sell-out but she is smart and experienced. She'll shred Trump in any debate and can run circles around him in policy. She'll outshine him as a credible candidate in any venue for the average thinking person. Just my two cents.

[LeftCoastMom]

Illegal immigration is more of a blessing for the republicans than a curse, the US economy would literally collapse in 3 seconds if it wasn't for them.

You really think the US government, republican or otherwise couldn't put a stop to illegal immigration in pretty quick time if it really wanted to?

This is true. They could make it much harder to get into this country at any time. The corporations / agribusinesses who exploit the undocumented want them here....and those corporations/agribusinesses buy politicians. They let them pop off at the mouth all they want during elections with anti-immigration rhetoric ( if elected, it serves the corporations purposes of keeping the undocumented from getting more rights)but they'd better not interfere with the steady supply of cheap labor.