Surah Yaseen

[Ron_Burgundy]

Quote

لِتُنْذِرَ قَوْمًا مَا أُنْذِرَ آبَاؤُهُمْ فَهُمْ غَافِلُونَ {6}

[Shakir 36:6] That you may warn a people whose fathers were not warned, so they are heedless.

According to this verse, there were some people who never got warned. Does it mean there were some people who never got the message of Allah. So will they go to heaven? Since they never received a message of Allah so they cannot be judged. 

[Hassan-]

[62:1] "Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve."

[DigitalUmmah]

the message of monotheism has existed since the time of Adam (as), so if people were not warned personally, its still no excuse because the message and the proof and the right path has always been available to them. imagine a person somewhere in a western country born and raised a kaffir away from any muslims, and they found out about islam and reverted. the message was there, even though they were not warned. I believe this verse is talking about people on the opposite end of the spectrum - the message was readily available even if there was not a physical warner in front of them. 

one only becomes a munafiq if the complete argument of islam is presented to them, they accept it in their hearts but reject it out of fear/ arrogance etc. if someone has no idea about islam, or only partly shown the truth? or only knows what is shown on Fox news, rejects islam? then its a whole different matter. 

[Ron_Burgundy]

30 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

the message of monotheism has existed since the time of Adam (as), so if people were not warned personally, its still no excuse because the message and the proof and the right path has always been available to them. imagine a person somewhere in a western country born and raised a kaffir away from any muslims, and they found out about islam and reverted. the message was there, even though they were not warned. I believe this verse is talking about people on the opposite end of the spectrum - the message was readily available even if there was not a physical warner in front of them. 

one only becomes a munafiq if the complete argument of islam is presented to them, they accept it in their hearts but reject it out of fear/ arrogance etc. if someone has no idea about islam, or only partly shown the truth? or only knows what is shown on Fox news, rejects islam? then its a whole different matter. 

Now communication fast and everything is available over the net but what about 10 or 20k years ago when people were oblivious of their surroundings. Many communities, colonies and cities didn't even know there are people on the other side of continents what about them?  

[notme]

17 minutes ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

Now communication fast and everything is available over the net but what about 10 or 20k years ago when people were oblivious of their surroundings. Many communities, colonies and cities didn't even know there are people on the other side of continents what about them?  

Do we trust in divine justice? The message must have been available or the people who never knew can't be judged against it.

[DigitalUmmah]

23 minutes ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

Now communication fast and everything is available over the net but what about 10 or 20k years ago when people were oblivious of their surroundings. Many communities, colonies and cities didn't even know there are people on the other side of continents what about them?  

 

4 minutes ago, notme said:

Do we trust in divine justice? The message must have been available or the people who never knew can't be judged against it.

the further back we go in history, the easier it would have been for divine messages to have been delivered. less people, in less areas, meant that the hujjah could often be sent to their town or village personally. 

[Aladin from Azra tribe]

This ayet can also mean that there was no need to warn their fathers. Warning leads to destruction of some people or town, almost always. It comes when almost all of the community is doing very big sin. There's no punishment in Dunya w/o warning. 

Reading ayets about Muhammed's sawa people (from his home town) I got impression that they were destroyed.

Allah swt knows best

[Ron_Burgundy]

14 minutes ago, notme said:

Do we trust in divine justice? The message must have been available or the people who never knew can't be judged against it.

Its not like i dont trust Allah or his judgement. I was just thinking there could be some people who probably never got his message and did whatever they could and still be in Jannat. 

[Ron_Burgundy]

11 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

 

the further back we go in history, the easier it would have been for divine messages to have been delivered. less people, in less areas, meant that the hujjah could often be sent to their town or village personally. 

But that verse clearly says that warn the people whose father were not warned. 

[notme]

8 minutes ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

Its not like i dont trust Allah or his judgement. I was just thinking there could be some people who probably never got his message and did whatever they could and still be in Jannat. 

Like young children, for example? People will only be held accountable for what they know and understand, so yes it seems most likely there will be non-Muslims in Jannah. Allah is perfect in justice. 

There is a widely held belief that we innately understand monotheism and are taught to believe otherwise. Perhaps anyone who thinks deeply can be a believer even without knowledge. 

[Ron_Burgundy]

4 minutes ago, notme said:

Like young children, for example? People will only be held accountable for what they know and understand, so yes it seems most likely there will be non-Muslims in Jannah. Allah is perfect in justice. 

There is a widely held belief that we innately understand monotheism and are taught to believe otherwise. Perhaps anyone who thinks deeply can be a believer even without knowledge. 

Hmmm

[Engineer73]

22 hours ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

According to this verse, there were some people who never got warned. Does it mean there were some people who never got the message of Allah. So will they go to heaven? Since they never received a message of Allah so they cannot be judged. 

Surah Ya Seen, Verse 6:

لِتُنذِرَ قَوْمًا مَّا أُنذِرَ آبَاؤُهُمْ فَهُمْ غَافِلُونَ

That you may warn a people whose fathers were not warned, so they are heedless.

(English - Shakir)

It looks strange that Shakir has traslated the "Ma" in negative form. There are 10 types of "Ma" in Arabic grammer.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) came to warn people of Macca (in the first place). There was Ka'aba which was built by Prophet Ibrahim & Ismail (pbuh), so would it correct to say "whose fathers were not warned".? It can also be translated as "that you may warn a people how/like their fathers were warned" (ma unzira a'abaoohum)

Second problem in this translation is the word "ghafiloon". This word is repeated 8 times in Quran in different verses. To become "ghafil", there has to be something present or something explained/ warned. I mean that "ghafiloon" is also indicating that the translation should be "fathers were warned" instead of "not warned".

Here are the verses for your reference, in which ghafiloon is present:

Surah Al-Anaam, Verse 131:

ذَٰلِكَ أَن لَّمْ يَكُن رَّبُّكَ مُهْلِكَ الْقُرَىٰ بِظُلْمٍ وَأَهْلُهَا غَافِلُونَ

This is because your Lord would not destroy towns unjustly while their people were negligent.

(English - Shakir)

Surah Yunus, Verse 7:

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ لَا يَرْجُونَ لِقَاءَنَا وَرَضُوا بِالْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا وَاطْمَأَنُّوا بِهَا وَالَّذِينَ هُمْ عَنْ آيَاتِنَا غَافِلُونَ

Surely those who do not hope in Our meeting and are pleased with this world's life and are content with it, and those who are heedless of Our communications:

(English - Shakir)

Surah Yunus, Verse 92:

فَالْيَوْمَ نُنَجِّيكَ بِبَدَنِكَ لِتَكُونَ لِمَنْ خَلْفَكَ آيَةً وَإِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِّنَ النَّاسِ عَنْ آيَاتِنَا لَغَافِلُونَ

But We will this day deliver you with your body that you may be a sign to those after you, and most surely the majority of the people are heedless to Our communications.

(English - Shakir)

Surah Yusuf, Verse 13:

قَالَ إِنِّي لَيَحْزُنُنِي أَن تَذْهَبُوا بِهِ وَأَخَافُ أَن يَأْكُلَهُ الذِّئْبُ وَأَنتُمْ عَنْهُ غَافِلُونَ

He said: Surely it grieves me that you should take him off, and I fear lest the wolf devour him while you are heedless of him.

(English - Shakir)

Surah An-Nahl, Verse 108:

أُولَٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ طَبَعَ اللَّهُ عَلَىٰ قُلُوبِهِمْ وَسَمْعِهِمْ وَأَبْصَارِهِمْ وَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الْغَافِلُونَ

These are they on whose hearts and their hearing and their eyes Allah has set a seal, and these are the heedless ones.

(English - Shakir)

Surah Ar-Room, Verse 7:

يَعْلَمُونَ ظَاهِرًا مِّنَ الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا وَهُمْ عَنِ الْآخِرَةِ هُمْ غَافِلُونَ

They know the outward of this world's life, but of the hereafter they are absolutely heedless.

(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Ahqaf, Verse 5:

وَمَنْ أَضَلُّ مِمَّن يَدْعُو مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ مَن لَّا يَسْتَجِيبُ لَهُ إِلَىٰ يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ وَهُمْ عَن دُعَائِهِمْ غَافِلُونَ

And who is in greater error than he who calls besides Allah upon those that will not answer him till the day of resurrection and they are heedless of their call?

(English - Shakir)

8th verse is of Yaseen, you can see in all verses, people are ghafil with 1) ayaat 2) Prophet Yousuf  3) Kafir 4) majority of people 5) Mushrik

So one can be "ghafil" only with the present or mentioned thing. Otherwise "jahiloon" will be the correct word to use. And below are the verses where "jahiloon" is used:

Surah Yusuf, Verse 89:

قَالَ هَلْ عَلِمْتُم مَّا فَعَلْتُم بِيُوسُفَ وَأَخِيهِ إِذْ أَنتُمْ جَاهِلُونَ

He said: Do you know how you treated Yusuf and his brother when you were ignorant?

(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Furqan, Verse 63:

وَعِبَادُ الرَّحْمَٰنِ الَّذِينَ يَمْشُونَ عَلَى الْأَرْضِ هَوْنًا وَإِذَا خَاطَبَهُمُ الْجَاهِلُونَ قَالُوا سَلَامًا

And the servants of the Beneficent Allah are they who walk on the earth in humbleness, and when the ignorant address them, they say: Peace.

(English - Shakir)

Surah Az-Zumar, Verse 64:

قُلْ أَفَغَيْرَ اللَّهِ تَأْمُرُونِّي أَعْبُدُ أَيُّهَا الْجَاهِلُونَ

Say: What! Do you then bid me serve others than Allah, O ignorant men?

(English - Shakir)

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

28 minutes ago, Engineer73 said:

Surah Ya Seen, Verse 6:

لِتُنذِرَ قَوْمًا مَّا أُنذِرَ آبَاؤُهُمْ فَهُمْ غَافِلُونَ

.........

 

Interesting but if we look at the time between Hazrat Ibrahim (P.B.U.H) and Hazrat Muhammad (P.B.U.H) there has to be at least 20 generations gap. What about the time between that?

On the other hand I was looking for tafseer of this ayat, but i couldn't find anything on almizan. However, i found something very interesting on Hubeali.com. Check this tafseer of verse 6 to 11.

Quote

VERSES 6 - 11 ُه ْم غافِلُو ن } ْنِذ ر آ باُؤ ُه ْم ف ُ ْو ًما ما أ لِ 6ْ }د ح هق ا ُتْنِذ ر ق ُه ْم َل ل ُيْؤ ِمُنو ن } ق ِه ْم ف ِ ْكث ر ْولُ عل َٰى أ ْغ َلًَل ل 7ْ ق ِه ْم أ ْع ناقِ هنا ج علْ نا فِي أ ِ { إ م ُحو ن } ُه ْم ُمقْ ِن ف ا ق ذْ ل ى اْْل ِ ِه ي إ ف 8ُ }ه ْم َل ُيْب ِص ُر ْغ شْي نا ُه ْم ف أ ا ف ِه ْم س دً ا و ِم ْن خلْفِ ِه ْم س دً ْيِدي ِن أ و ج عل و ن }9 ْ }نا ِم ْن بْي ْم ُتْنِذْر ُه ْم َل ُيْؤ ِمُنو ن } ْم ل ْر ت ُه ْم أ ْنذ أ ِه ْم أ ْي م ْغ و س وا ٌء عل 10 }فِ ر ٍة ِ ب ِّش ْرهُ ب ۖ ف الْ غْي ِب ِ ن ب ْك ر و خ ِش ي ال هر ْح م َٰ ِن اهت ب ع الذِّ هن ما ُتْنِذُر م ِ إ { ٍ يم ِ كر ٍ ْجر وأ 11 } [36:6]

[36:6]That you may warn a people (with) what their fathers were warned about, so they are heedless [36:7] The Word has proved to be True for most of them, but they are not believing [36:8] Surely We have placed chains on their necks, and these reach up to their chins, so they have their heads raised aloft [36:9] And We have made in front of them a barrier and a barrier behind them, so We have Covered them over, so they are not seeing [36:10] And it is alike to them whether you warn them or do not warn them, they will not be believing [36:11] But rather, You can only warn him who follows the Reminder and fears the Beneficent in secret; so announce to him the good news of Forgiveness and an honourable Recompense

محمد بن يعقوب: عن محمد بن يحيى، عن سلمة بن الخطاب، عن الحسن بن عبد الرحمن، عن علي بن أبي حمزة، عن ُو َن. ِذ َر آباُ ُه ْم َف ُهْم غاِفل نْ ُ ِذ َر َقْوماً ما أ نْ أبي بصير، عن أبي عبد هللا )عليه السالم(، قال: سألته عن قول هللا: لِت قال: »لتنذر ُ َ َقْو ُل َعلى أ ْ القوم الذين أنت فيهم كما انذر آبا هم فهم غافلون عن هللا، و عن رسوله، و عن وعيده ل ِه ْم ممن ال ََقْد َح َّق ال ِ َر ْكث يقرون بوالية أمير الم منين )عليه السالم( و األئمة من بعده َف ُهْم ال ُيْ ِمنُو َن بإمامة أمير الم منين و األوصياء، من بعده،

Muhammad Bin Yaqoub, from Muhammad Bin Yahya, from Salmat Bin Al-Khataab, from Al-Hassan Abdul Rahman, from Ali Bin Abu Hamza, from Abu Baseer, ‘I asked Abu Abdullahasws about the Words of Allahazwj [36:6] That you may warn a people (with) what their fathers were warned about, so they are heedless. Heasws said: ‘Warn the people in which youas are amongst them, just as their forefathers were warned, so they were oblivious from Allahazwj, and from Hisazwj Rasool, and from Hisazwj Promises. [36:7] The Word has proved to be True for most of them, from the ones who are not accepting the Wilayah of Amir-ulMomineen asws, and the Imams asws from after himasws but they are not believing in the Imamate of Amir-ul-Momineen asws and the successors asws from after him asws’.

The translation of verse 6 is totally different, I dont know arabic so maybe an arabic speaker here could help us out here. 

Edited January 20, 2017 by Ron_Burgundy

[Aladin from Azra tribe]

It should be "bi-ma" if it means "with what". Many translators and commentators are putting words which are not in Allah's Qawl.

Maybe we were lied that Arabs were pagans for centuries before Islam came to them, and for many other things, for which the Qur'an claims opposite them the people.

[Ron_Burgundy]

1 hour ago, Aladin from Azra tribe said:

It should be "bi-ma" if it means "with what". Many translators and commentators are putting words which are not in Allah's Qawl.

Maybe we were lied that Arabs were pagans for centuries before Islam came to them, and for many other things, for which the Qur'an claims opposite them the people.

well historians have mentioned that arabs were pagans. 

[Aladin from Azra tribe]

As I understand from the Qur'an, they (Arabs, Muhammed's sawa qawm) had 'iman for Allah swt, but their kufr was in rejecting (kefere) Muhammed Mustafa sawa and his family a.s.. I can quote ayets for this if you like.

So, this ayet you're asking about should really mean that their fathers weren't warned because there was no need for warning them.

It would be good if there's some tefsir in which all words from ayet are explained then translation/explanation was offered.

[Engineer73]

14 hours ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

Interesting but if we look at the time between Hazrat Ibrahim (P.B.U.H) and Hazrat Muhammad (P.B.U.H) there has to be at least 20 generations gap. What about the time between that?

The elder son (Prophet Ismail) of Prophet Ibrahim (a.s) settled nearby Ka'ba.

Prophet Ismail had many sons and daughters who migrated to several parts of the Arabian peninsula and they imparted the teachings of Ibrahim wherever they settled.

Ismail is also known as the patriarch of the Arabs. Abul Arab. The last of the messengers of Allah, the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad, was bom in the clan of Quraish who descended from Ismail and were amongst the most powerful people of Arabia. 

Have you ever found that Abdul Muttalib (a.s), the grand father of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and Abu Talib (a.s), the uncle of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned anywhere in Islamic history for worshipping idols? No, they never worshipped idols.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Engineer73

[maghrebishia]

Allah won't judge unjustly against people who are ignorant or incapable of understanding His religion. Kufr (Disbelief) is when someone who has faced the truth, knows the truth, and decides to turn away from it. So it's very plausible that non-Muslims will go to Jannah!