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In the Name of God بسم الله

If energy is eternal is God needed?

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There is two possibility. Either matters and energies were produced and created by themselves or an unlimited supreme being beyond human capacity and comprehension created these. According to the

So read this... According to science, "Matter doesn't exist until you observe it". So i exist because a person next to me is observing me, you exist so because someone over there is observing you and

Except the only Being who gives energy its unlimitedness is Allah. So, surely if Allah didnt exist, energy wouldn't either. 

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11 minutes ago, Follower of Truth said:

There is two possibility. Either matters and energies were produced and created by themselves or an unlimited supreme being beyond human capacity and comprehension created these.

According to the modern science findings and facts we know no new energy or matter can be created or produced by itself. This is called 'Law of conservation of matters and energy'. They can only change form. but no new matter or energy can be produced by itself. It is established fact in Physics.

So you have no option but admit that an unlimited supreme being with no beginning and no end has created all this matters and energy. Simple and Clear.

Total amount of energy in the universe is exactly zero. This is a direct consequence of the first law of thermodynamics.

Special theory of relativity states that energy and mass are interchangeable. First law of thermodynamics states that energy of a closed system cannot be created or destroyed. However the vacuum behaves like a "bubbling pool" which constantly creates and annihilates pairs of particles and anti-particles.  This bubbling is called quantum energy fluctuation. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle predicts that during the inflationary phase of the universe there were quantum fluctuations, which magnified to cosmic scale.

To sum up, total amount of energy in the universe does not change with time and it’s still zero. What is changing with time is just the entropy (energy dispersal) of the universe, which is still increasing.

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8 minutes ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

Total amount of energy in the universe is exactly zero. This is a direct consequence of the first law of thermodynamics.

 

Special theory of relativity states that energy and mass are interchangeable. First law of thermodynamics states that energy of a closed system cannot be created or destroyed. However the vacuum behaves like a "bubbling pool" which constantly creates and annihilates pairs of particles and anti-particles.  This bubbling is called quantum energy fluctuation. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle predicts that during the inflationary phase of the universe there were quantum fluctuations, which magnified to cosmic scale.

 

To sum up, total amount of energy in the universe does not change with time and it’s still zero. What is changing with time is just the entropy (energy dispersal) of the universe, which is still increasing.

 

Some people read the first law of thermodynamics and think it says energy is eternal when it clearly states it's only eternal in a closed system, and that closed system is our universe. Our universe is not eternal which means energy itself did not eternally exist.

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Just now, hayaah said:

So doesn't energy exist outside the universe? 

No one knows that except Allah. We humans know nothing about what exists outside our universe or if there is even anything that exists at all. The laws of physics can only be used after the Big Bang, not before it.

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Just now, Hassan Y said:

No one knows that except Allah. We humans know nothing about what exists outside our universe or if there is even anything that exists at all. The laws of physics can only be used after the Big Bang, not before it.

Is the outerspace inside the universe or outside? 

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12 minutes ago, hayaah said:

there must be some form of energy keeping the universe in its place ...otherwise wouldn't it collapse? 

Like I said, we can make all the assumptions in the world about what exists outside the universe but we dont know because we don't have any little evidence of it. We barely know 1% about our universe.

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43 minutes ago, hayaah said:

So doesn't energy exist outside the universe? 

We don't even know what does exist in universe. We just know about observable universe. Anything outside observable universe we can't say for sure. 

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36 minutes ago, hayaah said:

there must be some form of energy keeping the universe in its place ...otherwise wouldn't it collapse? 

So read this... According to science, "Matter doesn't exist until you observe it". So i exist because a person next to me is observing me, you exist so because someone over there is observing you and a person observing you exist because there is a 3rd force observing him...... so there are unlimited observations going on. and we all exist because there is someone who is observing all of us. does it make sense to you? its quantum physics... so there has to be some force who is observing all of us like entire universe. 

 

And i call him Allah

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Subhannallah, what an amazing topic..I have also heard that since Allah(SWT) is eternal, then names such as Khaliq (Creator) are actions that have and always will be occurring. If we say that there was any point that Allah (SWT) WASNT creating, then we have limited him, which we can not do since He can not be limited..This means "creation" is far more vast than we can ever fathom, as we are talking about a creation with no beginning and no end, since Allah has no beginning and no end, and since He has always been creating... Our universe exists as we know in the very least, within the realm of material, but according to Islam, there us more than just that,such as the realm of barzakh, the realm of malakut(angels) and so forth, so creation extends even to realms that are beyond our current place of existence. Hmmm...i guess the question i have now is, is barzakh and the realm of Malakut considered within our universe???   O.o

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I know who Allah swt is, but I don't know what is energy. Can somebody please tell me this word from the Qur'an, so I can understand?

Is it Khalid ibn Welid? Because Khalid means "eternal".

I hope you are not getting batil (illusion) as haqq (reality).

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3 hours ago, hayaah said:

Science states ' energy cannot be created or destroyed ' hence making it eternel. 

That is contradicting the Big Bang Theory which states all "energy" was created via the Big Bang. There was nothing in the Universe that existed before this. Allah is outside the boundaries and limitations of this Universe (which He created), thus Allah existed "before" the Big Bang (since He caused it).

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6 hours ago, humanbeing101 said:

If energy is unlimited does that mean we don't need God in the equation? 

Before life and humans, was just energy in its various forms and shapes in their patterns working their course, perhaps infinitely, perhaps not.

Humans weren't a mistake of those energies randomly clashing and all of a sudden there was a man or a squiggle of life.  Answer is Obvious.

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We define energy as the ability to do work. Ability of what? This relates energy to the existence of something at least and that something is non-eternal. 

If energy is understood as "eternal", how it got mass & speed? And are we sure that there is nothing faster than the square of the speed of light? 

In the state of nothingness, what would be the role of energy?

Energy is a building block of creation according to our understanding of energy. In this physical world, everything need energy to do any sort of work. Without energy there will be nothing which occupy space & has mass. Because occupying space is a work.

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14 hours ago, humanbeing101 said:

If energy is unlimited does that mean we don't need God in the equation? 

Energy is not eternal because it changes into different forms and anything that changes into different forms must have come out of a change that is from being nothing to something. For maintaining its eternity energy must had to have all the Godly qualities and complete in all sense, in other words, you are calling God as energy. Why are you twisting you head with these names when you can believe in God and you know that Energy is creation which is not eternal, so what is the point of using if ???????

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10 hours ago, TheLittleServant said:

That is contradicting the Big Bang Theory which states all "energy" was created via the Big Bang. There was nothing in the Universe that existed before this. Allah is outside the boundaries and limitations of this Universe (which He created), thus Allah existed "before" the Big Bang (since He caused it).

Energy was needed to start off the big bang actually....  and since when did I say the big bang came before Allah? Lol. 

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17 hours ago, Follower of Truth said:

There is two possibility. Either matters and energies were produced and created by themselves or an unlimited supreme being beyond human capacity and comprehension created these.

According to the modern science findings and facts we know no new energy or matter can be created or produced by itself. This is called 'Law of conservation of matters and energy'. They can only change form. but no new matter or energy can be produced by itself. It is established fact in Physics.

So you have no option but admit that an unlimited supreme being with no beginning and no end has created all this matters and energy. Simple and Clear.

Yes but the only thing we know exists is our universe and nothing outside of it. Secondly that is exactly what I was referring to the 'Law of conservation...', I mean it clearly shows energy cannot be destroyed or newly created, thus it must be eternal.

Secondly that means God could not of created it because the energy cannot be created. 

Thirdly you are negating string theory. String theory tells us there is 11 hyper-dimensional out there that cannot be seen. 

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17 hours ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

Total amount of energy in the universe is exactly zero. This is a direct consequence of the first law of thermodynamics.

 

Special theory of relativity states that energy and mass are interchangeable. First law of thermodynamics states that energy of a closed system cannot be created or destroyed. However the vacuum behaves like a "bubbling pool" which constantly creates and annihilates pairs of particles and anti-particles.  This bubbling is called quantum energy fluctuation. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle predicts that during the inflationary phase of the universe there were quantum fluctuations, which magnified to cosmic scale.

 

To sum up, total amount of energy in the universe does not change with time and it’s still zero. What is changing with time is just the entropy (energy dispersal) of the universe, which is still increasing.

 

So what are you exactly saying here? There are are bubbles? Namely the multiverse? 

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Just now, Engineer73 said:

How can you say that? When we know that universe has a beginning. It sounds atheistic to me, are you trying to say that universe originated spontaneously out of nothing? 

No the point is the big bang caused all our stars and planets to form etc... However prior to that it was a vacuum of space which on a quantum level still has energy. 

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4 minutes ago, humanbeing101 said:

mean it clearly shows energy cannot be destroyed or newly created, thus it must be eternal.

WE cannot destroy energy because it changes forms. The One who has created it & made it our necissity to do work, certainly able to do that. Similarly, see the state of singularity from which universe expanded. What caused expansion & what caused it to be in the state of singularity?

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