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Moiz Shah

why do shia prefer ziarat over umra and hajj

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many of my shia friends and their families prefer going to ziarat then going to umrah or hajj i asked them why is it so and they replied as it is financially easier to go to ziarat then to umrah or hajj. Can anyone explain this thought?

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there are no limits to number of visas issued to ziarat, while hajj is limited to a few million. 

ziarat is 1/5 of the cost of hajj. most people simply cannot afford £6,000 per ticket apart from once or twice in their life

Edited by DigitalUmmah

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I would personally prefer going on ziyarat because the shrines of the imams are surrounded by shia's and the ziyarat money goes towards a good cause, whereas the ka'aba is based in saudi arabia (a country that sources terrorism ) so any money they recieve from ummrah/hajj would most likely go towards the saudi king or his supporters (who would then use it for their own luxuries or for terrorism) 

Edited by hayaah

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5 minutes ago, Moiz Shah said:

many of my shia friends and their families prefer going to ziarat then going to umrah or hajj i asked them why is it so and they replied as it is financially easier to go to ziarat then to umrah or hajj. Can anyone explain this thought?

Speaking from personal experience the overall cost of going to Iraq from the U.S. is almost 50% of what the cost is to go to Saudi from the U.S.

Its the fees that the Saudi govt. imposes which make the biggest difference. Everything else (Airfare, other costs, etc...) are relatively even to some degree.

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Just now, hayaah said:

I personally prefer going on ziyarat because the shrines of the imams are surrounded by shia's and the ziyarat money goes towards a good cause, whereas the ka'aba is based in saudi arabia (a country that sources terrorism ) so any money they recieve from ummrah/hajj would most likely go towards the saudi king or his supporters (who would then use it for their own luxuries or for terrorism) 

exactly. watch any youtube video of shias being beaten up, harrassed, arrested and opressed while performing hajj rituals. I am sure it was a TOTAL coincidence that the mina stampede happened when the Iranians were there the most. 

they harrass shia in hajj then ask "why do shia prefer to visit places where they are treated with love, dignity and friendship instead of going to saudi to be molested by salafi"

#SunniLogic

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6 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

exactly. watch any youtube video of shias being beaten up, harrassed, arrested and opressed while performing hajj rituals. I am sure it was a TOTAL coincidence that the mina stampede happened when the Iranians were there the most. 

they harrass shia in hajj then ask "why do shia prefer to visit places where they are treated with love, dignity and friendship instead of going to saudi to be molested by salafi"

#SunniLogic

my dear brother you dont have to be so offended as this is not a sunni logic i just wanted to gain knowledge i'm not here to judge anyone. SUNNI SHIA? Are you really in this day and age believe in this? I think we're muslims first and if one wants to know or and get information it doesnt mean he's giving a logic of a sect.

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3 minutes ago, Moiz Shah said:

SUNNI SHIA? Are you really in this day and age believe in this? I think we're muslims first and if one wants to know or and get information it doesnt mean he's giving a logic of a sect.

Do you pray salah according to a sunni madhab? if so, guess what: you are a sunni

I am proud to say I am a rafidhi mallang shia. alhamdulillah.

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I think this is an excellent answer to your question

 

Quote

* The limitation the Saudi government places on the number of people who travel to Mecca for the hajj pilgrimage.

* The limitations and difficulties the Saudi government creates for Shias visiting Mecca for pilgrimage.  Many times due to political reasons and enmity towards Shias the Saudi government limits the number of people who visit Mecca from Shia dominated areas.  They also place other forms of barriers.  For example, last year many Shias could not go to Mecca from New Zealand to perform their hajj pilgrimage because the Saudi government approved only one Sunni managed caravan from New Zealand.

* The treatment of people once they enter Arabia.  Discrimination based on ethnicity and country of citizenship is rampant.  Once inside the country there are limitations placed on the pilgrims based on the view of the Wahabi scholars which are in charge of affairs in that country.  For example, an incident which I was a witness to myself was when an African man (who I think was actually a Sunni) struggled through the dense population around Ka`bah to get to touch and rub a fabric for blessing (tabarrok) purposes on one of the walls of the Ka`bah.  Whether or not his action was correct (which would be the subject of another discussion) is less important than the treatment he received once  he reached the Ka`bah at which point he was faced with a Wahabi scholar who told him that he had wasted his time and subsequently made a noise with his mouth and tongue.

* A disorganized setup forced on pilgrims once there.  For example, when in Mina I had lost the area of my tent.  I was with a fellow pilgrim from Iraq.  There was no organized system of numbering the tents.  When we asked directions from an ambulance worker who was on duty giving him the number of our tent he said he had no idea where it was or even how to find any tent in Mina.  At that point I asked him how he would find individuals if there was an emergency medical situation.  The expression on his face indicated he did not like that question and needless to say that he did not continue to speak to us afterwards.

* Geographical location.  Iraq is Shia dominated and it is easier for them to travel without a passport and visa within Iraq than to visit another country.  It is also easier for Iranians to travel to Iraq than Arabia.

Hence, my point is that in and of itself more Shias visiting Karbala is not necessarily related how they view the shrine of Imam Husayn (S) in comparison to Mecca.

Before going any further, it must be mentioned that something being obligatory (wājib) does not make it more excellent than something which is recommended (mustaḥab).  There is no doubt that an act which is obligatory must be observed if all the conditions to do so are present and if one does not do so then one has sinned.  On the other hand, a person does not sin if they do not observe something which is recommended.  But it could be the case and there are many instances which it is the case that observing something which is recommended carries more reward than something which is obligatory, not as a replacement but as an independent act on its own.  Also, one has to keep in mind that it is obligatory for a person to perform the hajj only once in their lifetime and any other number of times a person performs the hajj he/she does so as a recommended act.  Hajj also becomes obligatory if one does a nadhr as pilgrimage to the shrine of Imam Husayn (S) would become obligatory if one does nadhr to go there.

Also, it should be remembered that if Shias consider the shrine of Imam Husayn (S) as more excellent than Mecca or the pilgrimage to the shrine of Imam Husayn (S) as more excellent than pilgrimage to the Ka`bah it does not mean that they do not give importance to Mecca and Ka`bah but that the shrine is considered more excellent whereas the Ka`bah is also a very important and excellent place.  In regards to the obligatory hajj Shia scholars narrate from Sheikh Kulaynī, Sheikh Ṣadūq, Sheikh Mufīd and Sheikh Ṭūsī who narrated from Imam Sadiq (S) who said: “Whoever dies and does not perform the Ḥajjat al-Islam (the obligatory hajj) and there was no extreme conditions or sickness because of which he/she cannot perform his/her hajj or the government or ruling authority does not prevent him/her from performing it then he/she might as well die as a Jew or a Christian (i.e., it would be as if he/she died as a Jew or a Christian).” (Reference: Grabd Ayatullah Vahid Khorasani. Manāsik Hajj.  Qom: Madreseye al-Imām Bāqir al-Ulūm, 1425 A.H., p.12.  In fact, it is only the Shia Imāmīyah scholars who are unanimous that one must face an animal which is being slaughtered in accordance with Islamic rules towards Ka`bah if it is possible to do so whereas Sunni schools of thought differ on whether it is necessary to face the animal towards the Ka`bah.

There is consensus among Shia scholars that the shrine of Imam Husayn (S) and in fact all the shrines of the Ahlul Bayt (S) which includes the Prophet (S) have a higher status than Mecca.  The discussion of why the shrines of Ahlul Bayt (S) has a higher status in regards to Mecca is quite in-depth and is related to the very core of the view Shias have about the Ahlul bayt (S).  Opposition towards the aforementioned view is also related to the very core of the view non-Shia have about the Ahlul Bayt (S).  Hence, when the issue becomes clear it will be seen that those who do not hold the aforementioned view have not yet realised the position of the Ahlul Bayt (S) in general let alone particularly related to visiting their shrines.  I will, however, limit my answer to a brief discussion related to the matter at hand.

Hence, our discussion will include the status of the shrines of Ahlul Bayt (S) in general and the shrine of Imam Husayn (S) in particular.  Then we will discuss the status of doing pilgrimage to the shrine of Imam Husayn (S) in comparison to doing pilgrimage to Mecca.

One must first consider on what basis one is deciding on the status of a place, a person etc.  For us Muslims the status of a person is decided by Allah, the most high, based on the qualities a place or a person has.

The reason why the shrine of Imam Husayn (S) has a higher status than Mecca is to do with the status of Imam Husayn (S) who is buried there and the event which occurred there.  According to tradition there are also prophets buried in Masjid al-Ḥarām in a place next to the Ka`bah known as Ḥajar al-Isma`īl.  But Imam Husayn (S) has a higher status than the prophets with the exception of Prophet Muhammad (S) who is the best of all creation.  Imam Husayn (S), like his father Imam Ali (for which the wall of the Ka`bah split in order for his mother to give birth to him inside of it) and like his grandfather Prophet Muhammad (S), is more important and has a higher status than Mecca and Ka`bah.  We should remember that the Prophet (S) said about Imam Husayn (S) that, “He is from me and I am from him”.  In fact, Mecca can in no way be compared with these blessed individuals.  If it was not for Imam Husayn’s sacrifice, Yazid would have eliminated Islam and Islamic thinking completely so that there would be no one left who would consider Mecca and Masjid al-Ḥarām important.  Yazid actually demolished the Ka`bah after the martyrdom of Imam Husayn (S).  If it was not for the sacrifice of Imam Husayn (S) which awoke the spirit of Islam within the hearts of the people everyone would have followed Yazid and Islam would have been completely eliminated.

In his last will and testament the Prophet (S) said, “Verily I am leaving behind among you two precious things, the Book of Allah and my Ahlul Bayt”.  The Ahlul Bayt (S) includes, other than the Prophet himself, Fatimah al-Zahra and the twelve Imams.

Whereas Mecca will be completely destroyed, Imam Husayn (S) will be eternally living in heaven as one of the two masters of the youth of heaven (the other being Imam Hasan (S)).  Imam Husayn (S) being more important than Mecca and Ka`bah, the place he is buried is also more important than the other places.  In fact, the land of Karbala (i.e., the place he is buried) according to our traditions will be a place in heaven (i.e., the land will be placed in heaven).  In regards to Karbala being more important than Ka`bah there are many narrations.  But for the sake of brevity I will mention only a few of them here.

In the book Kāmil al-Zīyārāt by Ibn Qūlowayh Qommī (May Allah increase his status) it is narrated from Imam Mohammad Baqir (S) that: “Allah, the holy and the most high, created the land of Karbala twenty four thousand years before Ka`bah and made it blessed and sacred.  It was blessed and sacred before the creation [of what was created afterwards] until He made it the best land of heaven and the best housing and dwelling place for His friends (awlīyā).” (Ibn Qūluwayh Qommī.  Kāmil al-Zīyārāt.  Najaf: Enteshārāt Motazawi, 1356 A.H., p. 268).  In another narration in the same book the Imam is narrated to have said. “…and it remained blessed and sacred after what was created [afterwards].”(p.270).

In the same book it is narrated from Imam Sadiq (S) that: “The area in which Husayn ibn `Ali (S) was buried, on that day it was a garden from the gardens of Heaven.”  And said: “The place where Husayn (S) is buried is an elevated garden of the elevated gardens of Heaven.”(p.271)

There are many narrations in that book and others but we will limit ourselves to the above two.

There are also many narrations that state the pilgrimage to Karbala carries more reward and is more excellent than the hajj pilgrimage.  For example, Al-Kulaynī in Furū al-Kāfī narrates from Imam Sadiq (S) that: “Doing pilgrimage to the grave of Husayn (S) is equivalent to twenty hajj pilgrimages, nay it is more excellent than twenty hajj and umrah pilgrimages.” (Tehran: Dār al-Kutub al-Islāmīyah, 1384 H.S., v.4, p.580 and on p.581 with another narration saying better than twenty Hajj pilgrimages).

In another narration from Imam Baqir (S) the rewards is described as thus: “…Allah will write down one thousand accepted hajj and umrah for him/her and there will be written for him the reward and blessings of a thousand martyrs of badr [referring to the battle of badr] and the reward of a thousand people who are abstaining (ṣīyām), a thousand accepted charity (ṣadaqah) given and a thousand slaves freed and during the year he/she will be protected from calamity the least of which is satan.  On the day of resurrection he/she will have such a light from which east and west will be lit up from it and a caller will call out: “This is him/her who from excitement and longing [to visit Imam Husayn (S)] has visit Imam Husayn (S).  After this calling out no one is left but that he/she will implore so that they too can be of the pilgrims visiting Imam Husayn (S).” (Ḥurr al-Āmilī.  Wasa’il al-Shī`ah.  Qom: Mo’asseseye Āl al-Bayt, 1409 A.H., v.14, p.453).

In fact, according to authentic narrations pilgrimage to the grave of Imam Husayn (S) is equivalent to pilgrimage towards Allah in the Throne [metaphorically just as one would say visiting the House of Allah in Mecca but obviously Allah is not literally in that house] .  Sheikh Ṭūsī narrates an authentic tradition from Imam Sadiq (S) that: “Whoever visits the grave of Imam Husayn (S) on the day of Ashura while knowing his rights and rightful place it is as if he/she visited Allah in the Throne (`arsh)” (Tahdhīb al-Aḥkām.  Tehran: Dār al-Kutub al-Islāmīyah, 1365 H.S., V.6, p.51.)

Abū Hāshim Ja`farī narrates that: “Imam Hadi (S) while sick called me and Muhammad ibn Ḥamzah.  Muhammad ibn Ḥamzah preceded me and reached him earlier than me and later told me that he was constantly saying, ‘Send someone to the shrine of Imam Husayn so that he prays for me.’

I said to Muhammad, ‘Did you not tell him I will go to the shrine?!’

Then I went to him and said, ‘May I be sacrificed for you, I will go to the shrine for you.’

He said, ‘Be careful how you do this deed so no one finds out about it.’  Then he said, ‘Muhamad [ibn Ḥamzah] did not keep the secret of Zayd ibn `Ali and revealed it even though I disliked others to hear about it.’

Abū Hāshim Ja`farī then continues: “I said what the Imam had told me to `Ali ibn Bilal and told him the Imam had said to send someone on his behalf to the shrine to pray for him.  `Ali ibn Bilal said, ‘What does the Imam want with the shrine, he is himself a shrine [on his own merit].’

I went to Askar and went to the Imam and after being in his presence I got up to leave.  The Imam said, ‘Sit.’  When I saw the kindness of the Imam, I sat down and told him about what `Ali ibn Bilal had told me.  The Imam said, ‘The Messenger of Allah would circumambulate around the House of Allah and would kiss the Black Stone (Ḥajar al-Aswad) even though the position of the Messenger and the believers is higher than the House of God.  Also, Allah has commanded His Messenger to stay in Arafah even though the position of the Messenger is much higher than the Arafah and the secret of this is that there are such places that Allah likes to be remembered in.  Hence, I too like to have prayer done for me in a place which Allah likes prayers to be done there and the shrine of Imam Husayn (S) is one such place.’”(Ibn Qūluwayh Qommī.  Kāmil al-Zīyārāt.  Najaf: Enteshārāt Motazawi, 1356 A.H., p. 273)

It is noteworthy to also mention that the pilgrimage to Karbala is recommended even if one will have severe hardship in the process or afterwards.  Such a recommendation is not applicable for pilgrimage to Mecca.

The above narrations were only a sample of the ample narrations about the merits of the land where Imam Husayn (S) was buried and the excellence of the pilgrimage to that land.  It is important that we Shias know the position of Ahlul Bayt (S) and not subject ourselves to the beliefs of the non-Shia and assume due to their criticism of us as they make assumptions that Ka`bah should be more excellent than the shrine of Imam Husayn (S) or worse based our lack of understanding of our own belief we make such false assumptions.  It is important to study the Qur’an with the interpretation of the verses as given by the Ahlul Bayt and honest knowledgeable Shia scholars and the traditions of the Ahlul Bayt and using our reasoning ability first understand fully the issues surrounding our tenets of faith and then on that basis make judgments regarding different matters.

©Fatima Zahra Charitable Association.  All rights reserved.

 

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35 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

exactly. watch any youtube video of shias being beaten up, harrassed, arrested and opressed while performing hajj rituals. I am sure it was a TOTAL coincidence that the mina stampede happened when the Iranians were there the most. 

they harrass shia in hajj then ask "why do shia prefer to visit places where they are treated with love, dignity and friendship instead of going to saudi to be molested by salafi"

#SunniLogic

But Hajj is obligatory once in a life-time. Isn't it better to save money for Hajj instead of ziarah and then after performing obligatory Hajj do ziarah as per wish instead of recommended Umrah?

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Just now, Follower of Truth said:

But Hajj is obligatory once in a life-time. Isn't it better to save money for Hajj instead of ziarah and then after performing obligatory Hajj do ziarah as per wish instead of recommended Umrah?

People's goal is to do both and they usually start off with the one that is cheaper. Eventually, after they've saved up an insane amount of money then they do Haj.

As it stands right now Haj from the U.S. is around $7000 - $10,000 per head while Iraq from the U.S. is around $5000 (perhaps even cheaper depending on whether you join a khafilah or go on your own). Give or take some money but those are overall averages.

Everyone knows that Haj is wajib while Ziyarat is highly recommended so they do both as quickly as they can afford it.

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19 minutes ago, Follower of Truth said:

But Hajj is obligatory once in a life-time. Isn't it better to save money for Hajj instead of ziarah and then after performing obligatory Hajj do ziarah as per wish instead of recommended Umrah?

 

15 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

People's goal is to do both and they usually start off with the one that is cheaper. Eventually, after they've saved up an insane amount of money then they do Haj.

As it stands right now Haj from the U.S. is around $7000 - $10,000 per head while Iraq from the U.S. is around $5000 (perhaps even cheaper depending on whether you join a khafilah or go on your own). Give or take some money but those are overall averages.

Everyone knows that Haj is wajib while Ziyarat is highly recommended so they do both as quickly as they can afford it.

Dont forget visa restrictions too. if saudi restricts the numbers of hajji, there will naturally be less shia attending.

how are sunni blaming shia for this? if its saudi that sets the policy?

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2 hours ago, Moiz Shah said:

many of my shia friends and their families prefer going to ziarat then going to umrah or hajj i asked them why is it so and they replied as it is financially easier to go to ziarat then to umrah or hajj. Can anyone explain this thought?

I don't know for personal reasons, but I'll tell what I know.

Ziaret is wrong, because it's pointless to visit somebody's grave.

Umrah and hajj are pointless, because umrah and hajj are to Ibrahim a.s. and his pure progeny a.s., not to some black stone. So, umrah and hajj were ziaret to Resulullah sawa and his progeny a.s. while they were alive.

If you know anybody from Ehl-ul-Beyt a.s. you can do ziaret to them and it will be your umrah and/or hajj. If you do so, please ask them to confirm what I just said and send my selam to them.

Allah swt knows best

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21 minutes ago, Aladin from Azra tribe said:

I don't know for personal reasons, but I'll tell what I know.

Ziaret is wrong, because it's pointless to visit somebody's grave.

Umrah and hajj are pointless, because umrah and hajj are to Ibrahim a.s. and his pure progeny a.s., not to some black stone. So, umrah and hajj were ziaret to Resulullah sawa and his progeny a.s. while they were alive.

If you know anybody from Ehl-ul-Beyt a.s. you can do ziaret to them and it will be your umrah and/or hajj. If you do so, please ask them to confirm what I just said and send my selam to them.

Allah swt knows best

Just for note this guy is a semi-Qur'anist so watch out.

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10 minutes ago, Aladin from Azra tribe said:

According to? Scholars? I don't know... Allah swt didn't mention any pillar as 5 of them. Check if you don't believe. Sheikhs of bedouins and fire-worshippers made it up.

So just out of curiosity do you...

  1. Pray regularly ?
  2. Fast in Ramadan?
  3. Pay Khums ?
  4. Pay Zakat ?

We already know your view of Haj.

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You guys are funny. Your elite scholar said, as I heard today, that sunni are above you in knowing Qur'an. Are you ashamed for that?

On the other hand you have same reality (haqq) from 'imams a.s., but you can't recognize it, since you don't know the Qur'an.

So, when any of 'imams a.s. said that THEY ARE KA'ABA, THEY ARE QIBLA and so on, you will reject it, even the Qur'an states same. And you will call me by names I don't like to be called, and you're forgetting that Allah swt forbids that... but, as you wish. You can worship scholars and reject Qur'an and 'imams a.s.

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3 hours ago, Moiz Shah said:

many of my shia friends and their families prefer going to ziarat then going to umrah or hajj i asked them why is it so and they replied as it is financially easier to go to ziarat then to umrah or hajj. Can anyone explain this thought?

Salaam brother,

Hajj is wajib but the biggest criteria is that one has to be debt-free and financially able to afford it. The rising costs make it much harder.

Ziarah from the US can be done for $2,000 - $4,000 as compared to $7,000+ for hajj.

The constraints around the eligibility of hajj make ziarat more appealing. Nevertheless, hajj is wajib while ziarah is not.

39 minutes ago, Aladin from Azra tribe said:

I don't know for personal reasons, but I'll tell what I know.

Ziaret is wrong, because it's pointless to visit somebody's grave.

Umrah and hajj are pointless, because umrah and hajj are to Ibrahim a.s. and his pure progeny a.s., not to some black stone. So, umrah and hajj were ziaret to Resulullah sawa and his progeny a.s. while they were alive.

If you know anybody from Ehl-ul-Beyt a.s. you can do ziaret to them and it will be your umrah and/or hajj. If you do so, please ask them to confirm what I just said and send my selam to them.

Allah swt knows best

we could have so much fun. For now, as a Quranist, I would think you would be all over hajj since it is clearly mentioned in the Quran:

[Quran 22:27] "And proclaim that the people shall observe Hajj pilgrimage. They will come to you walking or riding on various exhausted (means of transportation). They will come from the farthest locations."
[Quran 2:125] We have rendered the shrine (the Kaba) a focal point for the people, and a safe sanctuary. You may use Abraham's shrine as a prayer house. We commissioned Abraham and Ismail: "You shall purify My house for those who visit, those who live there, and those who bow and prostrate."
[Quran 2:158] The knolls of Safa and Marwah are among the rites decreed by God. Anyone who observes Hajj or `Umrah commits no error by traversing the distance between them. If one volunteers more righteous works, then God is Appreciative, Omniscient.
[Quran 2:189] They ask you about the phases of the moon! Say, "They provide a timing device for the people, and determine the time of Hajj." It is not righteous to beat around the bush; righteousness is attained by upholding the commandments and by being straightforward. You shall observe God, that you may succeed.
[ 2:196] You shall observe the complete rites of Hajj and `Umrah for God. If you are prevented, you shall send an offering, and do not resume cutting your hair until your offering has reached its destination. If you are ill, or suffering a head injury (and you must cut your hair), you shall expiate by fasting, or giving to charity, or some other form of worship. During the normal Hajj, if you break the state of Ihram (sanctity) between `Umrah and Hajj, you shall expiate by offering an animal sacrifice. If you cannot afford it, you shall fast three days during Hajj and seven when you return home - this completes ten -provided you do not live at the Sacred Masjid. You shall observe God, and know that God is strict in enforcing retribution.
[Quran 2:197] Hajj shall be observed in the specified months. Whoever sets out to observe Hajj shall refrain from sexual intercourse, misconduct, and arguments throughout Hajj. Whatever good you do, God is fully aware thereof. As you prepare your provisions for the journey, the best provision is righteousness. You shall observe Me, O you who possess intelligence.
[Quran 2:198] You commit no error by seeking provisions from your Lord (through commerce). When you file from `Arafaat, you shall commemorate God at the Sacred Location (of Muzdalifah). You shall commemorate Him for guiding you; before this, you had gone astray. [Quran 2:199] You shall file together, with the rest of the people who file, and ask God for forgiveness. God is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
[Quran 2:200-201] Once you complete your rites, you shall continue to commemorate God as you commemorate your own parents, or even better. Some people would say, "Our Lord, give us of this world," while having no share in the Hereafter. [Quran 2:201] Others would say, "Our Lord, grant us righteousness in this world, and righteousness in the Hereafter, and spare us the retribution of Hell."
[Quran 2:203] You shall commemorate God for a number of days (in Mena); whoever hastens to do this in two days commits no sin, and whoever stays longer commits no sin, so long as righteousness is maintained. You shall observe God, and know that before Him you will be gathered.
[Quran 3:96-97] The most important shrine established for the people is the one in Becca; a blessed beacon for all the people. In it are clear signs: the station of Abraham. Anyone who enters it shall be granted safe passage. The people owe it to God that they shall observe Hajj to this shrine, when they can afford it. As for those who disbelieve, God does not need anyone.
[Quran 5:1] O you who believe, you shall fulfill your covenants. Permitted for you to eat are the livestock, except those specifically prohibited herein. You shall not permit hunting throughout Hajj pilgrimage. God decrees whatever He wills. 
[Quran 5:2] O you who believe, do not violate the rites instituted by God, nor the Sacred Months, nor the animals to be offered, nor the garlands marking them, nor the people who head for the Sacred Shrine (Ka'ba) seeking blessings from their Lord and approval. Once you complete the pilgrimage, you may hunt. Do not be provoked into aggression by your hatred of people who once prevented you from going to the Sacred Masjid. You shall cooperate in matters of righteousness and piety; do not cooperate in matters that are sinful and evil. You shall observe God. God is strict in enforcing retribution.
[Quran 5:94] O you who believe, God will test you with some game within reach of your hands and your arrows (during pilgrimage). God thus distinguishes those among you who observe Him in their privacy. Those who transgress after this have incurred a painful retribution.
[Quran 5:95] O you who believe, do not kill any game during pilgrimage. Anyone who kills any game on purpose, his fine shall be a number of livestock animals that is equivalent to the game animals he killed. The judgment shall be set by two equitable people among you. They shall make sure that the offerings reach the Ka'ba. Otherwise, he may expiate by feeding poor people, or by an equivalent fast to atone for his offense. God has pardoned past offenses. But if anyone returns to such an offense, God will avenge it. God is Almighty, Avenger. 
[Quran 5:96] All fish of the sea are made lawful for you to eat. During pilgrimage, this may provide for you during your journey. You shall not hunt throughout the pilgrimage. You shall reverence God, before whom you will be summoned.
[Quran 9:2] Therefore, roam the earth freely for four months, and know that you cannot escape from God, and that God humiliates the disbelievers.
[Quran 9:36] The count of months, as far as God is concerned, is twelve. This has been God's law, since the day He created the heavens and the earth. Four of them are sacred. This is the perfect religion; you shall not wrong your souls (by fighting) during the Sacred Months. However, you may declare all-out war against the idol worshipers (even during the Sacred Months), when they declare all-out war against you, and know that God is on the side of the righteous.
[Quran 9:37] Altering the Sacred Months is a sign of excessive disbelief; it augments the straying of those who have disbelieved. They alternate the Sacred Months and the regular months, while preserving the number of months consecrated by God. They thus violate what God has consecrated. Their evil works are adorned in their eyes. God does not guide the disbelieving people. [Quran 22:26-27] We appointed Abraham to establish the Shrine: "You shall not idolize any other god beside Me, and purify My shrine for those who visit it, those who live near it, and those who bow and prostrate." And proclaim that the people shall observe Hajj pilgrimage. They will come to you walking or riding on various exhausted (means of transportation). They will come from the farthest locations."
[Quran 22:28-29] They may seek commercial benefits, and they shall commemorate God's name during the specified days for providing them with livestock. "Eat therefrom and feed the despondent and the poor." They shall complete their obligations, fulfill their vows, and visit the ancient shrine.
[Quran 22:33] The (livestock) provide you with many benefits for a period, before being donated to the ancient shrine.
[Quran 22:36] The animal offerings are among the rites decreed by God for your own good. You shall mention God's name on them while they are standing in line. Once they are offered for sacrifice, you shall eat therefrom and feed the poor and the needy. This is why we subdued them for you, that you may show your appreciation.
[Quran 48:27] God has fulfilled His messenger's truthful vision: "You will enter the Sacred Masjid, God willing, perfectly secure, and you will cut your hair or shorten it (as you fulfill the pilgrimage rituals) there. You will not have any fear. Since He knew what you did not know, He has coupled this with an immediate victory."

 

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1 minute ago, Akbar673 said:

So just out of curiosity do you...

  1. Pray regularly ?
  2. Fast in Ramadan?
  3. Pay Khums ?
  4. Pay Zakat ?

We already know your view of Haj.

1. you mean: am I "doing" es-salat? yes, I have to

2. I do, but do you know what is Ramadhan?

3. If you know anybody of Ehl-ul-Beyt a.s. please inform me

4. What is zakat? I thought it has something with "being clean", how can I pay it?

5. I'd like to do hajj and I hope I'll be alive for that.

Do you have more pillars?

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My dear brother @shiaman14 Hajj is reality, only a crazy man can say opposite. But Hajj is not to some black stone (you had to put Kaaba in brackets). Hajj is to Ibrahim a.s. and his pure family a.s. If you don't believe in Qur'an and you're reading only translations and opinions about it, then please try to search about it in ahadith, maybe you'll find what I'm talking about.

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3 minutes ago, Aladin from Azra tribe said:

My dear brother @shiaman14 Hajj is reality, only a crazy man can say opposite. But Hajj is not to some black stone (you had to put Kaaba in brackets). Hajj is to Ibrahim a.s. and his pure family a.s. If you don't believe in Qur'an and you're reading only translations and opinions about it, then please try to search about it in ahadith, maybe you'll find what I'm talking about.

Allah has made the Ka'bah, the Sacred House, standing for the people and [has sanctified] the sacred months and the sacrificial animals and the garlands [by which they are identified]. That is so you may know that Allah knows what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and that Allah is Knowing of all things.

Al-Ma'ida 95

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1 minute ago, E.L King said:

Allah has made the Ka'bah, the Sacred House, standing for the people and [has sanctified] the sacred months and the sacrificial animals and the garlands [by which they are identified]. That is so you may know that Allah knows what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and that Allah is Knowing of all things.

Al-Ma'ida 95

So, when 'imam a.s. said that They're Ka'aba, you will say that it's not truth?

What is Ka'aba?

Are you sure that El-Beyt is House?

Have you noticed how much words they had to put in brackets to convince you that you have to worhip some black stone?

Do you know that that black stone was taken for 20+ years and returned in pieces? Shi'as done so ;)

So, Allah swt ordered us something but the whole generation is not able to do as He ordered?

Was hajj in Eastern Arabia or it was in Mekka in those years?

Have you found how many times 'imams a.s. were in Mekka, for any "business"?

I can ask more, but if you don't wanna read the Qur'an, other questions are pointless, more-less.

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please explain to me?  On the one hand you are saying one has to be crazy to deny hajj; but you are also saying hajj is pointless. Which is it?

1 hour ago, Aladin from Azra tribe said:

Hajj is reality, only a crazy man can say opposite. 

 

2 hours ago, Aladin from Azra tribe said:

Umrah and hajj are pointless,

 

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1 minute ago, Aladin from Azra tribe said:

So, when 'imam a.s. said that They're Ka'aba, you will say that it's not truth?

What is Ka'aba?

Are you sure that El-Beyt is House?

Have you noticed how much words they had to put in brackets to convince you that you have to worhip some black stone?

Do you know that that black stone was taken for 20+ years and returned in pieces? Shi'as done so ;)

So, Allah swt ordered us something but the whole generation is not able to do as He ordered?

Was hajj in Eastern Arabia or it was in Mekka in those years?

Have you found how many times 'imams a.s. were in Mekka, for any "business"?

I can ask more, but if you don't wanna read the Qur'an, other questions are pointless, more-less.

There is no bracket in this Verse my friend, it says Al-Ka'aba is the Sacred House - Al-Bayt Al-Haram - here is the Arabic text if you don't believe:

 جَعَلَ اللّهُ الْكَعْبَةَ الْبَيْتَ الْحَرَامَ قِيَامًا لِّلنَّاسِ وَالشَّهْرَ الْحَرَامَ وَالْهَدْيَ وَالْقَلاَئِدَ ذَلِكَ لِتَعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ يَعْلَمُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الأَرْضِ وَأَنَّ اللّهَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ

 

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OK, what is El-Ka'abah and what is El-Beyt and what is El-Haram?

You probably know that these words with El are not same as words without it.

And if you know to read this ayet then you should know that Allah swt didn't make El-Ka'aba to be El-Beyt-ul-Haram, He made El-Ka'abet-ul-Beyt-ul-Haram to be qiyam for all of the people. Read it again and come back with "sorry, for calling you semi-Quranist".

Edited by Aladin from Azra tribe

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1 minute ago, Aladin from Azra tribe said:

OK, what is El-Ka'abah and what is El-Beyt and what is El-Haram?

You probably know that these words with El are not same as words without it.

And if you know to read this ayet then you should know that Allah swt didn't make El-Ka'aba to be El-Beyt-ul-Haram, He made El-Ka'ab-el-Beyt-ul-Haram to be qiyam for all of the people. Read it again and come back with "sorry, for calling you semi-Quranist".

The Ka'bah is that cube in Mecca which you have been blaspheming. Al-Bayt means "The House" and "Al-Haram" means "The Sacred". Simple really.

As for your second paragraph I don't know what you're trying to say, please speak in English.

And yes you are a semi-Qur'anist lol 

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What made you think that El-Ka'aba is some black stone? This ayet?

What I said and you didn't understood is that El-Haram and El-Beyt are adjectives for El-Ka'aba in that ayet.

I hope you'll see the reality (haqq) before you die, there's not much kings here.

I'm a Muslim, who recognized that the Qur'an is an ultimate source reality (haqq) and that Allah swt chosen Ibrahim a.s. and his pure progeny a.s. to be our guides, and none of them said or done anything opposite to the Qur'an. So, calling me Quranist in any percantage is not nice, I haven't used bad names for anybody here. And I know that it'll be easier for you to put me in some group, so you can attack me whenever you attack them. But I don't care for groups and I won't. Anybody who claims he's a Muslim and mu'min is my brother. And any women who claims that she's Muslima and mu'mina she's my weliy.

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1 hour ago, shiaman14 said:

please explain to me?  On the one hand you are saying one has to be crazy to deny hajj; but you are also saying hajj is pointless. Which is it?

 

 

You have to quote all, otherwise you can't understand. Hajj is pointless to some black stone, but hajj as it is prescribed to us is something I dream about.

I won't discuss further about this, unless somebody quotes me, because I may be misunderstood. Please refer to anything what you put in your qalb; if you're satisfied with that I have nothing against it. Just try not to be fooled, it's very hard not to be fooled nowadays.

Selam to Ibrahim a.s. and his pure progeny a.s.

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2 hours ago, Aladin from Azra tribe said:

You have to quote all, otherwise you can't understand. Hajj is pointless to some black stone, but hajj as it is prescribed to us is something I dream about.

I won't discuss further about this, unless somebody quotes me, because I may be misunderstood. Please refer to anything what you put in your qalb; if you're satisfied with that I have nothing against it. Just try not to be fooled, it's very hard not to be fooled nowadays.

Selam to Ibrahim a.s. and his pure progeny a.s.

Hajj as prescribed is good otherwise it's pointless. Same can be said about Salah, sawn, etc.

So what your point? How to do hajj?

Having been to hajj and seen millions doing it, I can assure you no one goes to Mecca for the Black Stone (Hajr Aswad) only.

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9 hours ago, Follower of Truth said:

But Hajj is obligatory once in a life-time. Isn't it better to save money for Hajj instead of ziarah and then after performing obligatory Hajj do ziarah as per wish instead of recommended Umrah?

This.  I don't understand it either.  People saying things like "doing one ziyarat is like doing hajj 50 times."  That makes no sense to me.  One is an obligatory action according to just about every Muslim ever, in the history of Islam.  The other is something completely made up after Islam was established.  If one is obligatory, why wouldn't you save up the money to do the obligatory one instead of doing the non-obligatory one multiple times?

 

Personally, I think Umrah is better than ziyarat.  In fact I really don't see any point in ziyarat from an Islamic perspective.  If you think that it makes you feel more religious, then that's cool.  But Islamically, one is required, one isn't.

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