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In the Name of God بسم الله

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Fahad Sani

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54 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

Engr by profession.

Have basic knowledge of all subjects. Just like a laymen. But I dont follow any scholar without proper evidence from Quran and Sunnah.

how do you decide what is proper evidence of sunnah if you are not an expert in rijal?

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13 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

how do you decide what is proper evidence of sunnah if you are not an expert in rijal?

Those who are experts in rijal have already done that. Its the job of scholars to show authentic evidence in support of their rulings to public, at least show the evidence. Else such thing is mere their own opinion not as per sunnah. Because without knowledge we cant say for sure they are quoting from authentic Sunnah.

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15 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

Those who are experts in rijal have already done that. Its the job of scholars to show authentic evidence in support of their rulings to public, at least show the evidence. Else such thing is mere their own opinion not as per sunnah. Because without knowledge we cant say for sure they are quoting from authentic Sunnah.

how do you personally decide who is an expert in rijal? 

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2 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

I am proud to be a shia with manhaj of ahlul sunnah

You are not a Shi'a.

Oh I know I think I might become a Hindu but follow Shariah law. It doesn't work. If you believe it does then truly you are deluded. 

I have more respect for Yazid (la) than you because at least he doesn't pretend to be a Shi'a. 

I can see through you what Imam Reda (as) taught when he said that some people are more dangerous than the Dajjal.

And for your reading pleasure, here are some hadiths by the Imams (as) on your beloved:

Imam Jaffar Sadiq (as) says to Kumayl Ibn Ziyad : “Abu Bakar and Omar, that is not a bloodshed in Islam unless it is on their necks and not a bit of money it’s taken from its place.”

Source : Bihar Al Anwar, Volume 44, Chapter 18, Narration 1.

Imam Sadiq (as) was also asked about Abu Bakar and Omar: 
so he said: “I swear by Allah, those two are the first ones who oppressed us and took our rights they carried the people onto our necks (they make people hate us and they make people want to kill us). They sat in a position which belongs to us. Verily, Allah would not forgive their sin for them. To disbelievers (Kafir) whoever takes them as his master is a disbeliever.

Surah Nahl Verse 23: 
All oppression that happened and happening all will be carried as sins on these two.  (referring Omar and Abu Bakar).

Narrations of Imam (asws):

“Both Abu Bakar and Omar were Kuffar, whosoever loves them is similarly a Kafir.”

—   Imam Sajjad Ibn Hussain (as).
Source : Haq Al Yaqeen. Page 522

“By Allah, they (Abu Bakar and Omar) have taken our divine right. They have placed themselves in a position that belonged to us. They have steppen on our necks. They have allowed other people to step on our necks.”

—   Imam Hussain Ibne Ali (as).
Source : Taqreeb Al- Ma'arif by Al Halabi Page 243

“I shall go to my father, the prophet (saws), and tell him, Abu Bakar and Omar killed me.”

—   Imam Hussain Ibne Ali (as).
Sunni reference : Maqtal Al Hussain by Al Khawarizmi V:2, P:34 

Imam Jaffar Sadiq (as) cursed 4 Men and 4 Women after every obligatory prayer:
4 Men :                                         4 Women:
- Abu Bakar                                  - Aisha        
- Omar                                          - Hafsa
- Othman                                      - Hinda
- Muawiyah                                  - Umm Hakam

Source : Al Kafi, vol 3 pg 342. Tehzeeb vol 2 pg 341

Edited by zainabamy
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I can't believe this discussion is still going on.

A fatwa is the end result of a long research into Quran and ahadith and not the research itself.

For example, if I list out some Sunni Q&A site that only answers questions and does not go into the details - would you be willing to called them hypocrites too?

To all my shias brothers and sisters - if this is the best and only thing brother @Fahad Sani and his companions can come up with for "Hypocrisy of the Shia World", I think we can all pat ourselves on the back for being on the true and correct path of Allah, the Prophet (saw) and his AhlulBayt (as). Certainly, this topic was created in reaction to my topic "Hypocrisy of the Sunni World" but surely they could have come up with something worth discussing at least. Its quite comical that with their collective efforts, this is the best they could do.

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On 1/18/2017 at 4:08 AM, zainabamy said:

You are not a Shi'a.

Why? Do you have ilm e gaib? Do you know whats inside someones heart?

On 1/18/2017 at 4:08 AM, zainabamy said:

Oh I know I think I might become a Hindu but follow Shariah law. It doesn't work. If you believe it does then truly you are deluded. 

Why this analogy. What you mean sunnis are kafir like hindus? Are you takfiri like khawarij?

On 1/18/2017 at 4:08 AM, zainabamy said:

I have more respect for Yazid (la) than you because at least he doesn't pretend to be a Shi'a. 

More respect for yazid and at the same time la. Then what about me if I am more worse than him to you?

On 1/18/2017 at 4:08 AM, zainabamy said:

I can see through you what Imam Reda (as) taught when he said that some people are more dangerous than the Dajjal.

Yes. These are Scholars. All those who hide the truth. Many ayahs of Quran and ahadith of Prophet s.a.w.w testify this.

On 1/18/2017 at 4:08 AM, zainabamy said:

And for your reading pleasure, here are some hadiths by the Imams (as) on your beloved:

Imam Jaffar Sadiq (as) says to Kumayl Ibn Ziyad : “Abu Bakar and Omar, that is not a bloodshed in Islam unless it is on their necks and not a bit of money it’s taken from its place.”

Source : Bihar Al Anwar, Volume 44, Chapter 18, Narration 1.

Imam Sadiq (as) was also asked about Abu Bakar and Omar: 
so he said: “I swear by Allah, those two are the first ones who oppressed us and took our rights they carried the people onto our necks (they make people hate us and they make people want to kill us). They sat in a position which belongs to us. Verily, Allah would not forgive their sin for them. To disbelievers (Kafir) whoever takes them as his master is a disbeliever.

Surah Nahl Verse 23: 
All oppression that happened and happening all will be carried as sins on these two.  (referring Omar and Abu Bakar).

Narrations of Imam (asws):

“Both Abu Bakar and Omar were Kuffar, whosoever loves them is similarly a Kafir.”

—   Imam Sajjad Ibn Hussain (as).
Source : Haq Al Yaqeen. Page 522

“By Allah, they (Abu Bakar and Omar) have taken our divine right. They have placed themselves in a position that belonged to us. They have steppen on our necks. They have allowed other people to step on our necks.”

—   Imam Hussain Ibne Ali (as).
Source : Taqreeb Al- Ma'arif by Al Halabi Page 243

“I shall go to my father, the prophet (saws), and tell him, Abu Bakar and Omar killed me.”

—   Imam Hussain Ibne Ali (as).
Sunni reference : Maqtal Al Hussain by Al Khawarizmi V:2, P:34 

Imam Jaffar Sadiq (as) cursed 4 Men and 4 Women after every obligatory prayer:
4 Men :                                         4 Women:
- Abu Bakar                                  - Aisha        
- Omar                                          - Hafsa
- Othman                                      - Hinda
- Muawiyah                                  - Umm Hakam

Source : Al Kafi, vol 3 pg 342. Tehzeeb vol 2 pg 341

It means all sunnis are kafirs. Game over.

What else???

Sister you are so blind in the love of ahlebait that you dont even know what you are copy pasting. These are nothing but useless fabricated narrations.

On 1/18/2017 at 4:08 AM, zainabamy said:

Imam Hussain Ibne Ali (as).
Source : Taqreeb Al- Ma'arif by Al Halabi Page 243

“I shall go to my father, the prophet (saws), and tell him, Abu Bakar and Omar killed me.”

Imam Hussain Ibne Ali (as).
Sunni reference : Maqtal Al Hussain by Al Khawarizmi V:2, P:34 

Those who died before are the ones who killed the one who died later.

Today you have shown me a hidden side of twelver shia, i.e takfiri one, blind one, ignorant one.

btw. muawiya and yazid and umm hakam, marwan, abu sufyan, hinda etc are not my beloveds.

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On 1/18/2017 at 4:10 AM, DigitalUmmah said:

did the Imams (as) allow their shia to do this? 

Yes. Why not. Whats the problem in following the sunnah of Prophet s.a.w.w?

Rules taught by Ahlebayt...

Source: BOOK: UYUN AKHBAR REZA A.S, Volume 1, Chapter 30, Author: Shaikh  Sadooq.
https://www.al-islam.org/uyun-akhbar-ar-ridha-volume-1-shaykh-saduq/chapter-30-various-traditions-al-ridha#fref_6eb2e8c6_34

RULE #1: Prophet (S) never allowed what God forbade, never forbade  what God allowed, and never changed any of God’s Decrees or anything  which God made incumbent.

RULE #2: We Ahlulbayt never allow what God’s Prophet (S) has not allowed to do, and never order to do the opposite of what God’s  Prophet (S) has ordered to do. Since we are all the followers of God’s  Prophet (S). We submit to the Prophet’s (a.s.) orders and  admonishments, just as God’s Prophet (S) submitted to the Honorable  the Exalted Lord’s orders.

RULE #3: In case of conflicting traditions, use the narration which  agrees with the Quran. If you dont find it explicitly in Quran, then refer to Sunnah of the Prophet (S), and use the narration which agrees  with Sunnah of Prophet (S). But if you dont find anything clearly,  both in Quran and Sunnah then refer to us (Ahlulbayt).

Rules taught by other Imams...

Abu Haneefah said: “This is my opinion, but if there comes someone  whose opinion is better than mine, then accept that.”  And "It is not permitted for anyone to accept our views if they do not know from where we got them."

Maalik said: “I  am only human, I may be right or I may be wrong, so measure my words  by the Qur’aan and Sunnah.”

Al-Shaafa’i said: “If the hadeeth is  saheeh, then ignore my words. If you see well established evidence,  then this is my view.”

Imam Ahmad said: “Do not follow me blindly, and  do not follow Maalik or al-Shaafa’i or al-Thawri blindly. Learn as we  have learned.” And he said, “Do not follow men blindly with regard to  your religion, for they can never be safe from error.”

 

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On 1/18/2017 at 2:15 PM, shiaman14 said:

I can't believe this discussion is still going on.

A fatwa is the end result of a long research into Quran and ahadith and not the research itself.

For example, if I list out some Sunni Q&A site that only answers questions and does not go into the details - would you be willing to called them hypocrites too?

To all my shias brothers and sisters - if this is the best and only thing brother @Fahad Sani and his companions can come up with for "Hypocrisy of the Shia World", I think we can all pat ourselves on the back for being on the true and correct path of Allah, the Prophet (saw) and his AhlulBayt (as). Certainly, this topic was created in reaction to my topic "Hypocrisy of the Sunni World" but surely they could have come up with something worth discussing at least. Its quite comical that with their collective efforts, this is the best they could do.

Where is the blue print of such long research. I think there is no harm in sharing this to public. Knowledge should not be hidden. So that people can figure out who is correctly following ahlebait in a particular ruling. Quran and sunnah is authority not scholars. If they dont provide proof how will you verify their fatwas/statements.

There might be some sunni sites but the most official ones all show evidences when giving an answer.

No brother, its not the best and the only thing. There are many more. Like this one. Found recently.

13 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:
On 1/18/2017 at 4:08 AM, zainabamy said:

And for your reading pleasure, here are some hadiths by the Imams (as) on your beloved:

Imam Jaffar Sadiq (as) says to Kumayl Ibn Ziyad : “Abu Bakar and Omar, that is not a bloodshed in Islam unless it is on their necks and not a bit of money it’s taken from its place.”

Source : Bihar Al Anwar, Volume 44, Chapter 18, Narration 1.

Imam Sadiq (as) was also asked about Abu Bakar and Omar: 
so he said: “I swear by Allah, those two are the first ones who oppressed us and took our rights they carried the people onto our necks (they make people hate us and they make people want to kill us). They sat in a position which belongs to us. Verily, Allah would not forgive their sin for them. To disbelievers (Kafir) whoever takes them as his master is a disbeliever.

Surah Nahl Verse 23: 
All oppression that happened and happening all will be carried as sins on these two.  (referring Omar and Abu Bakar).

Narrations of Imam (asws):

“Both Abu Bakar and Omar were Kuffar, whosoever loves them is similarly a Kafir.”

—   Imam Sajjad Ibn Hussain (as).
Source : Haq Al Yaqeen. Page 522

“By Allah, they (Abu Bakar and Omar) have taken our divine right. They have placed themselves in a position that belonged to us. They have steppen on our necks. They have allowed other people to step on our necks.”

—   Imam Hussain Ibne Ali (as).
Source : Taqreeb Al- Ma'arif by Al Halabi Page 243

“I shall go to my father, the prophet (saws), and tell him, Abu Bakar and Omar killed me.”

—   Imam Hussain Ibne Ali (as).
Sunni reference : Maqtal Al Hussain by Al Khawarizmi V:2, P:34 

Imam Jaffar Sadiq (as) cursed 4 Men and 4 Women after every obligatory prayer:
4 Men :                                         4 Women:
- Abu Bakar                                  - Aisha        
- Omar                                          - Hafsa
- Othman                                      - Hinda
- Muawiyah                                  - Umm Hakam

Source : Al Kafi, vol 3 pg 342. Tehzeeb vol 2 pg 341

Meaning all followers of ahlul sunnah wal jamah are kuffar.

If these narrations are authentic as per their rules then twelver shias are takfiri in nature. If not then accepting such narrations is hypocrisy.

While the path of Imam Ali a.s is ...

 297 - ب : ابن طريف عن ابن علوان عن جعفر عن أبيه أن عليا ( عليه السلام ) كان يقول لاهل حربه : إنا لم نقاتلهم على التكفير لهم ولم نقاتلهم على التكفير لنا ولكنا رأينا أنا على حرق  ورأوا أنهم على حق

Ibn Tareef from Ibn Alwan from Imam Jafar ibn Sadiq from his Father  from Ali (alaihi salam) who said about those who fought against him:  "We don’t fight with them due to their takfir, and don’t fight with  them due to their takfir of us. But we see that we are upon truth, and  they see that they are upon truth." [Bihar al-Anwar 32/324, No. 297]

 إن عليا لم يكن ينسب أحدا من أهل حربه إلى الشرك ولا إلى النفاق ولكنه كان يقول: هم أخواننا بغوا علينا  - 298

Imam Jafar as-Sadiq a.s said: “Ali didn't attribute anyone from those who fought against him to shirk or hypocrisy, but he said: “The are our brothers, which rebel  against us”. [Bihar al-Anwar 32/324, No. 298]

Source: https://www.aqaed.com/ahlulbait/books/behar32/a33.html

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13 hours ago, humanbeing101 said:

Bro there is clearly some problem with you. I don't mean that in a rude way but you seem overly-obsessed with proving sunnism on a shia board. 

It means I am replying to everyone not running away.

No, I am not proving sunnism here. Only trying to show true path of ahlebait and their teachings.

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6 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

It means I am replying to everyone not running away.

No, I am not proving sunnism here. Only trying to show true path of ahlebait and their teachings.

so what are you? hanafi? hanbali? shafi? Identify yourself. you seem to have no clear position. 

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56 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

Yes. Why not. Whats the problem in following the sunnah of Prophet s.a.w.w?

Rules taught by Ahlebayt...

Source: BOOK: UYUN AKHBAR REZA A.S, Volume 1, Chapter 30, Author: Shaikh  Sadooq.
https://www.al-islam.org/uyun-akhbar-ar-ridha-volume-1-shaykh-saduq/chapter-30-various-traditions-al-ridha#fref_6eb2e8c6_34

RULE #1: Prophet (S) never allowed what God forbade, never forbade  what God allowed, and never changed any of God’s Decrees or anything  which God made incumbent.

RULE #2: We Ahlulbayt never allow what God’s Prophet (S) has not allowed to do, and never order to do the opposite of what God’s  Prophet (S) has ordered to do. Since we are all the followers of God’s  Prophet (S). We submit to the Prophet’s (a.s.) orders and  admonishments, just as God’s Prophet (S) submitted to the Honorable  the Exalted Lord’s orders.

RULE #3: In case of conflicting traditions, use the narration which  agrees with the Quran. If you dont find it explicitly in Quran, then refer to Sunnah of the Prophet (S), and use the narration which agrees  with Sunnah of Prophet (S). But if you dont find anything clearly,  both in Quran and Sunnah then refer to us (Ahlulbayt).

Rules taught by other Imams...

Abu Haneefah said: “This is my opinion, but if there comes someone  whose opinion is better than mine, then accept that.”  And "It is not permitted for anyone to accept our views if they do not know from where we got them."

Maalik said: “I  am only human, I may be right or I may be wrong, so measure my words  by the Qur’aan and Sunnah.”

Al-Shaafa’i said: “If the hadeeth is  saheeh, then ignore my words. If you see well established evidence,  then this is my view.”

Imam Ahmad said: “Do not follow me blindly, and  do not follow Maalik or al-Shaafa’i or al-Thawri blindly. Learn as we  have learned.” And he said, “Do not follow men blindly with regard to  your religion, for they can never be safe from error.”

 

 

What exactly is your problem with our fiqh system?

Are you trying to say it is not based on sound knowledge? Or is your problem with taqleed?

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2 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Sister you are so blind in the love of ahlebait that you dont even know what you are copy pasting. These are nothing but useless fabricated narrations.

@zainabamy - no doubt this is the highest compliment. I only wish someone accuses me of blind love for the AhlulBayt. There is AhlulBayt and then there is everything/everyone else. You are on the right side. While we can delve into reasons the 72 supported Imam Hussain (as), if you read the history books, they all say the same thing - the 72 didn't have lofty goals or ambitions or thirst for jannah - it was simply their love for Hussain (as).

2 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Where is the blue print of such long research. I think there is no harm in sharing this to public. Knowledge should not be hidden. So that people can figure out who is correctly following ahlebait in a particular ruling. Quran and sunnah is authority not scholars. If they dont provide proof how will you verify their fatwas/statements.

All around the world, DRs. prescribe medications to patients. Patients heed the Dr's advice and take the medication and hopefully get better. Patients do not question the Dr. about the thousands of hours of research that went into developing this medication. A few do and the DRs point them to the necessary research.

Similarly, a marja prescribes a fatwa. People can choose to follow it, reject it or ask for more information. The onus is on the patient or the muqallad to find out the reasoning/research behind a medication or fatwa.

Here is a simple test - can you please provide a list of all the medications you or a family member has ever taken and then the full, detailed research behind the creation of the medication. If you can't provide this, then my dear brother - you are a hypocrite.

2 hours ago, humanbeing101 said:

so what are you? hanafi? hanbali? shafi? Identify yourself. you seem to have no clear position. 

Hypocrisy would be following any of the 4 Sunni imams when there is no mention or criteria for choosing them. Further hypocrisy is that since they are dead, no one can even question them about a ruling or a fatwa.

2 hours ago, iraqi_shia said:

What exactly is your problem with our fiqh system?

Are you trying to say it is not based on sound knowledge? Or is your problem with taqleed?

The dear brother is going to save us from ourselves.

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Aww bless he decided to show his face again

3 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

It means all sunnis are kafirs. Game over.

What else???

And? You wahabis can pray as much as you want, its just exercise to you people. And you can recite as much Qur'an as you want, it means nothing if you don't have the Wilayah of Ameerulmumineen (as).

3 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

These are nothing but useless fabricated narrations.

Go on then prove they are fabricated.

3 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

btw. muawiya and yazid and umm hakam, marwan, abu sufyan, hinda etc are not my beloveds.

invalid.png

 

By the way everyone I'm changing my religion to Sikhism with the Jafari madhab because @Fahad Sani is my role model. 

Edited by zainabamy
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3 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Yes. Why not. Whats the problem in following the sunnah of Prophet s.a.w.w?

Rules taught by Ahlebayt...

Source: BOOK: UYUN AKHBAR REZA A.S, Volume 1, Chapter 30, Author: Shaikh  Sadooq.
https://www.al-islam.org/uyun-akhbar-ar-ridha-volume-1-shaykh-saduq/chapter-30-various-traditions-al-ridha#fref_6eb2e8c6_34

RULE #1: Prophet (S) never allowed what God forbade, never forbade  what God allowed, and never changed any of God’s Decrees or anything  which God made incumbent.

RULE #2: We Ahlulbayt never allow what God’s Prophet (S) has not allowed to do, and never order to do the opposite of what God’s  Prophet (S) has ordered to do. Since we are all the followers of God’s  Prophet (S). We submit to the Prophet’s (a.s.) orders and  admonishments, just as God’s Prophet (S) submitted to the Honorable  the Exalted Lord’s orders.

RULE #3: In case of conflicting traditions, use the narration which  agrees with the Quran. If you dont find it explicitly in Quran, then refer to Sunnah of the Prophet (S), and use the narration which agrees  with Sunnah of Prophet (S). But if you dont find anything clearly,  both in Quran and Sunnah then refer to us (Ahlulbayt).

Rules taught by other Imams...

Abu Haneefah said: “This is my opinion, but if there comes someone  whose opinion is better than mine, then accept that.”  And "It is not permitted for anyone to accept our views if they do not know from where we got them."

Maalik said: “I  am only human, I may be right or I may be wrong, so measure my words  by the Qur’aan and Sunnah.”

Al-Shaafa’i said: “If the hadeeth is  saheeh, then ignore my words. If you see well established evidence,  then this is my view.”

Imam Ahmad said: “Do not follow me blindly, and  do not follow Maalik or al-Shaafa’i or al-Thawri blindly. Learn as we  have learned.” And he said, “Do not follow men blindly with regard to  your religion, for they can never be safe from error.”

 

Is following sunnis, referring to the Ahlulbayt (as)?

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11 hours ago, humanbeing101 said:

so what are you? hanafi? hanbali? shafi? Identify yourself. you seem to have no clear position. 

Quran and Sunnah. And whatever agrees with it.

Quote

Abu Haneefah said: “This is my opinion, but if there comes someone  whose opinion is better than mine, then accept that.”  And "It is not permitted for anyone to accept our views if they do not know from where we got them."

Maalik said: “I  am only human, I may be right or I may be wrong, so measure my words  by the Qur’aan and Sunnah.”

Al-Shaafa’i said: “If the hadeeth is  saheeh, then ignore my words. If you see well established evidence,  then this is my view.”

Imam Ahmad said: “Do not follow me blindly, and  do not follow Maalik or al-Shaafa’i or al-Thawri blindly. Learn as we  have learned.” And he said, “Do not follow men blindly with regard to  your religion, for they can never be safe from error.”

 

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10 hours ago, iraqi_shia said:

 

What exactly is your problem with our fiqh system?

Are you trying to say it is not based on sound knowledge? Or is your problem with taqleed?

Taqleed is problematic when its without sound knowledge. Like blindly following scholars without knowing the truth behind their rulings. Its the duty of scholars to reveal the truth. And the job of followers is to atleast ask for evidence. Because we are bound to follow Prophet s.a.w.w not scholars.

[17:36] "And do not follow that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed!  the hearing and the sight and the heart - of each of these you will be  questioned"

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8 hours ago, shiaman14 said:
12 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Sister you are so blind in the love of ahlebait that you dont even know what you are copy pasting. These are nothing but useless fabricated narrations.

@zainabamy - no doubt this is the highest compliment. I only wish someone accuses me of blind love for the AhlulBayt. There is AhlulBayt and then there is everything/everyone else. You are on the right side. While we can delve into reasons the 72 supported Imam Hussain (as), if you read the history books, they all say the same thing - the 72 didn't have lofty goals or ambitions or thirst for jannah - it was simply their love for Hussain (as).

Nahjul Balagha, Sermon 126

Ali says:“With regard to me, two categories of people will be ruined, namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from rightfulness. The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority of Muslims because Allah’s hand of protection is on keeping unity. You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is a prey to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is a prey to the wolf. Beware! Whoever calls to this course [of sectarianism], kill him, even though he may be under this headband of mine.”
 

Its a general rule. Its not only limited to nusairis.

Is this unity.

On 1/18/2017 at 5:08 PM, zainabamy said:

Surah Nahl Verse 23: All oppression that happened and happening all will be carried as sins on these two.  (referring Omar and Abu Bakar).

Narrations of Imam (asws):

“Both Abu Bakar and Omar were Kuffar, whosoever loves them is similarly a Kafir.”

—   Imam Sajjad Ibn Hussain (as).
Source : Haq Al Yaqeen. Page 522

“By Allah, they (Abu Bakar and Omar) have taken our divine right. They have placed themselves in a position that belonged to us. They have steppen on our necks. They have allowed other people to step on our necks.”

—   Imam Hussain Ibne Ali (as).
Source : Taqreeb Al- Ma'arif by Al Halabi Page 243

“I shall go to my father, the prophet (saws), and tell him, Abu Bakar and Omar killed me.”

—   Imam Hussain Ibne Ali (as).
Sunni reference : Maqtal Al Hussain by Al Khawarizmi V:2, P:34 

This is blindness. Abu bakr and Umar killed Hussain a.s. They both were at karbala. Amazing love.

 

9 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

All around the world, DRs. prescribe medications to patients. Patients heed the Dr's advice and take the medication and hopefully get better. Patients do not question the Dr. about the thousands of hours of research that went into developing this medication. A few do and the DRs point them to the necessary research.

Similarly, a marja prescribes a fatwa. People can choose to follow it, reject it or ask for more information. The onus is on the patient or the muqallad to find out the reasoning/research behind a medication or fatwa.

Here is a simple test - can you please provide a list of all the medications you or a family member has ever taken and then the full, detailed research behind the creation of the medication. If you can't provide this, then my dear brother - you are a hypocrite.

I am talking about following Quran and Sunnah. Not about science. We will be accountable on Quran and Sunnah not on science.

[17:36] "And do not follow that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed!  the hearing and the sight and the heart - of each of these you will be  questioned"

 

9 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Hypocrisy would be following any of the 4 Sunni imams when there is no mention or criteria for choosing them. Further hypocrisy is that since they are dead, no one can even question them about a ruling or a fatwa.

No. Not at all. If anyone do opposite of this while they know then its hypocrisy.

Quote

Abu Haneefah said: “This is my opinion, but if there comes someone  whose opinion is better than mine, then accept that.”  And "It is not permitted for anyone to accept our views if they do not know from where we got them."

Maalik said: “I  am only human, I may be right or I may be wrong, so measure my words  by the Qur’aan and Sunnah.”

Al-Shaafa’i said: “If the hadeeth is  saheeh, then ignore my words. If you see well established evidence,  then this is my view.”

Imam Ahmad said: “Do not follow me blindly, and  do not follow Maalik or al-Shaafa’i or al-Thawri blindly. Learn as we  have learned.” And he said, “Do not follow men blindly with regard to  your religion, for they can never be safe from error.”

 

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9 hours ago, zainabamy said:

Aww bless he decided to show his face again

12 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

It means all sunnis are kafirs. Game over.

What else???

And? You wahabis can pray as much as you want, its just exercise to you people. And you can recite as much Qur'an as you want, it means nothing if you don't have the Wilayah of Ameerulmumineen (as).

Who is showing their face??

12 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:
12 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:
On 1/18/2017 at 4:08 AM, zainabamy said:

And for your reading pleasure, here are some hadiths by the Imams (as) on your beloved:

Imam Jaffar Sadiq (as) says to Kumayl Ibn Ziyad : “Abu Bakar and Omar, that is not a bloodshed in Islam unless it is on their necks and not a bit of money it’s taken from its place.”

Source : Bihar Al Anwar, Volume 44, Chapter 18, Narration 1.

Imam Sadiq (as) was also asked about Abu Bakar and Omar: 
so he said: “I swear by Allah, those two are the first ones who oppressed us and took our rights they carried the people onto our necks (they make people hate us and they make people want to kill us). They sat in a position which belongs to us. Verily, Allah would not forgive their sin for them. To disbelievers (Kafir) whoever takes them as his master is a disbeliever.

Surah Nahl Verse 23: 
All oppression that happened and happening all will be carried as sins on these two.  (referring Omar and Abu Bakar).

Narrations of Imam (asws):

“Both Abu Bakar and Omar were Kuffar, whosoever loves them is similarly a Kafir.”

—   Imam Sajjad Ibn Hussain (as).
Source : Haq Al Yaqeen. Page 522

“By Allah, they (Abu Bakar and Omar) have taken our divine right. They have placed themselves in a position that belonged to us. They have steppen on our necks. They have allowed other people to step on our necks.”

—   Imam Hussain Ibne Ali (as).
Source : Taqreeb Al- Ma'arif by Al Halabi Page 243

“I shall go to my father, the prophet (saws), and tell him, Abu Bakar and Omar killed me.”

—   Imam Hussain Ibne Ali (as).
Sunni reference : Maqtal Al Hussain by Al Khawarizmi V:2, P:34 

Imam Jaffar Sadiq (as) cursed 4 Men and 4 Women after every obligatory prayer:
4 Men :                                         4 Women:
- Abu Bakar                                  - Aisha        
- Omar                                          - Hafsa
- Othman                                      - Hinda
- Muawiyah                                  - Umm Hakam

Source : Al Kafi, vol 3 pg 342. Tehzeeb vol 2 pg 341

I was just confirming your views.

Wilayah of Ali a.s means muwadat (love). Its part of Iman. There is ijma on it between shia and sunni. Except true nasibis.

If wilayah mean divine authority then its not proven.

 

9 hours ago, zainabamy said:
12 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

These are nothing but useless fabricated narrations.

Go on then prove they are fabricated.

Narrations themselves say we are fabrications.

12 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:
On 1/18/2017 at 5:08 PM, zainabamy said:

Imam Hussain Ibne Ali (as).
Source : Taqreeb Al- Ma'arif by Al Halabi Page 243

“I shall go to my father, the prophet (saws), and tell him, Abu Bakar and Omar killed me.”

Imam Hussain Ibne Ali (as).
Sunni reference : Maqtal Al Hussain by Al Khawarizmi V:2, P:34 

Those who died before are the ones who killed the one who died later.

 

Check the rest for yourself.

9 hours ago, zainabamy said:

By the way everyone I'm changing my religion to Sikhism with the Jafari madhab because @Fahad Sani is my role model. 

Sikhism is kufr. Shiaism/Sunnism is not. How am I your role model. Dont put the burden of your wrong decisions on me. Not even as a joke.

 

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9 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Is following sunnis, referring to the Ahlulbayt (as)?

Follow Quran and Sunnah from authentic sources. Whether it be from sahabah or from ahlebayt. Testing tool is Quran and ahadith of Prophet Muhammad s.,a.w.w

 

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4 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Taqleed is problematic when its without sound knowledge. Like blindly following scholars without knowing the truth behind their rulings. Its the duty of scholars to reveal the truth. And the job of followers is to atleast ask for evidence. Because we are bound to follow Prophet s.a.w.w not scholars.

[17:36] "And do not follow that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed!  the hearing and the sight and the heart - of each of these you will be  questioned"

So to be clear, your issue is with taqleed as a concept?

 

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7 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Sikhism is kufr. Shiaism/Sunnism is not. How am I your role model. Dont put the burden of your wrong decisions on me. Not even as a joke.

You are such a joke I don't even know whether to laugh or cry. 

 

Serious question do you think claiming to be both wahhabi and Shi'a will save you on Judgement day?

'Oh Allah I swear I wasn't one of them, I was only half!'

 

By the way I'm still waiting for those hadiths from the Imams (as) that claim we must love your buddies. 

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8 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Follow Quran and Sunnah from authentic sources. Whether it be from sahabah or from ahlebayt. Testing tool is Quran and ahadith of Prophet Muhammad s.,a.w.w

that makes no sense. 

what do you do then if sahaba contradict the Ahlulbayt (as) and both hadith are "sahih"? 

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13 hours ago, zainabamy said:

If you really are a Shi'a @Fahad Sani then who are your 12 Imams/caliphs? Do they include the abu bakr, umar and uthman? If they do then where do the Imams (as) fit in?

I have said many times on this forum that I am just shia of Ali a.s, but not twelver, fiver or sevener etc. Just like Ammar bin Yasir r.a, Ibn Abbas r.a. They were his shia but not twelvers.

Hadith of twelve caliphs is a prophecy/news. It do not say you have to believe or recognize twelve caliphs otherwise you will be unsuccessful.

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15 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

that makes no sense. 

what do you do then if sahaba contradict the Ahlulbayt (as) and both hadith are "sahih"? 

 

Quote

Ahmad ibn Al-Hassan al-Maythami added, “I asked the Imam (a.s.), ‘What should we do in instances in which there is a ruling on something from you - the Members of the Holy Household - which does not exist in God’s Book, but it is in the traditions and there is also an opposite tradition narrated on your authority.” The Imam (a.s.) answered, “Yes, sometimes God’s Prophet (S) admonished against something. That is a kind of admonishing which is like that of God. It is no longer permitted to do what the Prophet (S) has admonished against. He (a.s.) has also ordered to do things which are considered to be like the orders of the Sublime God’s. His orders are according to the Sublime God’s orders. Therefore, whenever there is an admonishment by God’s Prophet (S) for which there is a tradition which opposes it, acting according to that tradition is not permissible. The same holds true for what the Prophet (S) has allowed. That is because we (Members of the Holy Household) never allow (the people to do) what God’s Prophet (S) has not allowed (them) to do, and never order (the people) to do the opposite of what God’s Prophet (S) has ordered (the people) to do - except for in conditions in which there is some fear of harm (cases of concealment of faith ). It will never be the case that we allow what God’s Prophet has forbidden or forbid what God’s Prophet (S) has allowed, since we (- Members of the Holy Household -) are all the followers of God’s Prophet (S). We submit to the Prophet’s (a.s.) orders and admonishments, just as God’s Prophet (S) submitted to the Honorable the Exalted Lord’s orders. The Honorable the Exalted God said, …So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you…’34 Indeed God’s Prophet (S) has admonished against things, which are not forbidden, but are not good to do. He (a.s.) has also ordered to do things, which are not incumbent upon one to do, but are better to be done to be more noble. He (a.s.) has then left the people free to chose to do them or not, whether or not they are excused from doing those things. There are cases in which God’s Prophet (S) has admonished against something since it is not good to do, or has ordered to do what is not forbidden to do or not incumbent upon one not to do. Therefore, if there are two traditions from us (Members of the Holy Household) in which one has ordered you to do something, while in the other one he (a.s.) has admonished you against doing it, and someone has compiled both these traditions in the same book and has not denied either one of them; then you can follow either one if the tradition narrators are reliable. You are allowed to submit to God’s Prophet’s (a.s.) words or reject his knowledge and ours on that issue whenever the duty is not clear. Whoever refuses to submit due to being stubborn or wanting to deny God’s Prophet (S) is, in fact, a polytheist regarding the Majestic God. Therefore, you should first review the traditions that are narrated to you for which there is also an opposite tradition related to what is in God’s Book. Then use the one which agrees with God’s Book regarding what is forbidden and what is allowed and act accordingly. If you cannot find it in God’s Book, then refer to the traditions of the Prophet (S). Use the tradition which is in agreement with the traditions of the Prophet (S) regarding its being allowed or forbidden. However, when there is something which has been admonished against in the traditions, but then a tradition has come opposite to that, this is a permission to do what God’s Prophet (S) has admonished against, but has not forbidden to do. In such cases you can rely on either one. The person is allowed to chose, since both traditions are narrated on the authority of God’s Prophet (S). However, in cases which are neither of the above, you should leave the knowledge regarding them to us - Members of the Holy Household - and do not issue your own decrees, since we are more deserving to do so. You must be careful and stop at the doubtful instances, wait to understand them and search about them, until you get enough clarifications on them by us – Members of the Holy Household.”

https://www.al-islam.org/uyun-akhbar-ar-ridha-volume-1-shaykh-saduq/chapter-30-various-traditions-al-ridha#fref_6eb2e8c6_34

 

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11 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Quran and Sunnah. And whatever agrees with it.

Correct me if I am wrong but Hadith Thaqlayn was Quran and AhlulBayt, Hadith-e-Umar was "hasbona kitabullah" (Book of Allah is sufficient) hadith-e-muawiya was Quran and Sunnah. Aren't you the one telling us not to follow Muawiya?

11 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Taqleed is problematic when its without sound knowledge. Like blindly following scholars without knowing the truth behind their rulings. Its the duty of scholars to reveal the truth. And the job of followers is to atleast ask for evidence. Because we are bound to follow Prophet s.a.w.w not scholars.

[17:36] "And do not follow that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed!  the hearing and the sight and the heart - of each of these you will be  questioned"

[Quran 9:122] And it does not beseem the believers that they should go forth all together; why should not then a company from every party from among them go forth that they may apply themselves to obtain understanding in religion, and that they may warn their people when they come back to them that they may be cautious?

11 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Nahjul Balagha, Sermon 126

Ali says:“With regard to me, two categories of people will be ruined, namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from rightfulness. The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority of Muslims because Allah’s hand of protection is on keeping unity. You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is a prey to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is a prey to the wolf. Beware! Whoever calls to this course [of sectarianism], kill him, even though he may be under this headband of mine.”
Its a general rule. Its not only limited to nusairis.

Loving Ali too much is when someone makes him a deity; No one has done that here so it is a pointless quote here but thanks for it any way.

11 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

This is blindness. Abu bakr and Umar killed Hussain a.s. They both were at karbala. Amazing love.

Those with an eye on history will tell you that he groundwork for Karbala was laid at Saqifa.

11 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

I am talking about following Quran and Sunnah. Not about science. We will be accountable on Quran and Sunnah not on science.

[17:36] "And do not follow that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed!  the hearing and the sight and the heart - of each of these you will be  questioned"

Isnt Islam a way of life and as such the rules of Islam are universal and applicable in all walks of life. The ayah quoted above does not say "And do not follow that of which you have no knowledge in Quran and Sunnah" It is general so should be applicable to medicine as well. Is it safe to assume you are a medical-hypocrite meaning you take medicine without research?

20 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Hypocrisy would be following any of the 4 Sunni imams when there is no mention or criteria for choosing them. Further hypocrisy is that since they are dead, no one can even question them about a ruling or a fatwa.

 

11 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

No. Not at all. If anyone do opposite of this while they know then its hypocrisy.

You follow Quran and Sunnah based on what? More importantly, isn't it hypocritical that neither the Quran nor the Sunnah mention any of the 4 Sunni Imams and yet you follow them?

Finally, I asked you 3 times to let this go because there are tons of fatwas issued by Sunni clerics and professors where they do not go into the research either but it seems like you are either not able to or not willing to understand. I will give you one analogy and 1 example:

A judge issues a guilty/not-guilty verdict at the end of a court case. What the judge does not do is read out the entire case made by the defense and prosecutor and at the end announces his verdict. That would be stupid and a complete waste of time. Similarly, a marja issues a fatwa at the end of a detailed and thorough research. People are free to ask for that research but not obliged to.

The following Sunni clerics have issued fatwas or statements (verbal and/or written) about the issue of adult breastfeeding:

  • Dr. Izzat Atiya (pro)
  • Sheikh Abdul Mohsin al-Abaican (pro)
  • Sheikh Jamal al-Murakbi (pro)
  • Sheikh Nazim Misbahi (pro)
  • Saudi Mufti Sheikh 'Abd Al-'Aziz Bin 'Abdallah Aal Al-Sheikh (against)
  • Dr. Muhammad Al-Nujeimi  (against)
  • Sheikh 'Abd Al-Rahman Al-Sudayyis (against)
  • Sheikh Dr. Saleh Al-Sadlan (pro)

None of them gave their detailed research behind their respective rulings. 1 issue, multiple rulings - no research evidence.

I can cite example after example of similar cases on a variety of topics. You need to give this one up brother.

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On 1/20/2017 at 8:52 AM, shiaman14 said:
On 1/19/2017 at 9:28 PM, Fahad Sani said:

Quran and Sunnah. And whatever agrees with it.

Correct me if I am wrong but Hadith Thaqlayn was Quran and AhlulBayt, Hadith-e-Umar was "hasbona kitabullah" (Book of Allah is sufficient) hadith-e-muawiya was Quran and Sunnah. Aren't you the one telling us not to follow Muawiya?

Quran and sunnah is as per Quran. Many verses confirm. No need of any hadith to testify this. Nisa 59 also testify that the ultimate authority is quran and sunnah, not ulil amrs.

Hadith e saqlian itself is part of sunnah. By sunnah I mean words and acts of Prophet s.a.w.w. Hadith e saqlian says take care of ahlebait i.e wilayah or love. Read the one mentioned in sahih muslim. Its very explicit in meaning.

Muaiwyah had nothing to do with sunnah. He was the first caliph who openly violated the sunnah. Remember my thread on twelvershia forum. Rightly guided caliphs are only 5 from abu bakr r.a to hassan r.a. Those from ahlul sunnah who believe contrary to this are ignorant.

On 1/20/2017 at 8:52 AM, shiaman14 said:

Loving Ali too much is when someone makes him a deity; No one has done that here so it is a pointless quote here but thanks for it any way.

What are the things which make someone a deity. Read Naml 59-64.

On 1/20/2017 at 8:52 AM, shiaman14 said:

Those with an eye on history will tell you that he groundwork for Karbala was laid at Saqifa.

History? Any twelver shia book on history?

Blue print of correct history of caliphs is in this book

خلافت و ملوکیت از مولانا مودودی

On 1/20/2017 at 8:52 AM, shiaman14 said:

You follow Quran and Sunnah based on what? More importantly, isn't it hypocritical that neither the Quran nor the Sunnah mention any of the 4 Sunni Imams and yet you follow them?

Finally, I asked you 3 times to let this go because there are tons of fatwas issued by Sunni clerics and professors where they do not go into the research either but it seems like you are either not able to or not willing to understand. I will give you one analogy and 1 example:

A judge issues a guilty/not-guilty verdict at the end of a court case. What the judge does not do is read out the entire case made by the defense and prosecutor and at the end announces his verdict. That would be stupid and a complete waste of time. Similarly, a marja issues a fatwa at the end of a detailed and thorough research. People are free to ask for that research but not obliged to.

The following Sunni clerics have issued fatwas or statements (verbal and/or written) about the issue of adult breastfeeding:

  • Dr. Izzat Atiya (pro)
  • Sheikh Abdul Mohsin al-Abaican (pro)
  • Sheikh Jamal al-Murakbi (pro)
  • Sheikh Nazim Misbahi (pro)
  • Saudi Mufti Sheikh 'Abd Al-'Aziz Bin 'Abdallah Aal Al-Sheikh (against)
  • Dr. Muhammad Al-Nujeimi  (against)
  • Sheikh 'Abd Al-Rahman Al-Sudayyis (against)
  • Sheikh Dr. Saleh Al-Sadlan (pro)

None of them gave their detailed research behind their respective rulings. 1 issue, multiple rulings - no research evidence.

I can cite example after example of similar cases on a variety of topics. You need to give this one up brother.

Views of four imams. Final authority is Quran and sunnah, not our fatwas. Those who do the opposite are not their true followers.

Abu Haneefah said: “This is my opinion, but if there comes someone  whose opinion is better than mine, then accept that.”  And "It is not permitted for anyone to accept our views if they do not know from where we got them."

Maalik said: “I  am only human, I may be right or I may be wrong, so measure my words  by the Qur’aan and Sunnah.”

Al-Shaafa’i said: “If the hadeeth is  saheeh, then ignore my words. If you see well established evidence,  then this is my view.”

Imam Ahmad said: “Do not follow me blindly, and  do not follow Maalik or al-Shaafa’i or al-Thawri blindly. Learn as we  have learned.” And he said, “Do not follow men blindly with regard to  your religion, for they can never be safe from error.”

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6 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Quran and sunnah is as per Quran. Many verses confirm. No need of any hadith to testify this. Nisa 59 also testify that the ultimate authority is quran and sunnah, not ulil amrs.

Hadith e saqlian itself is part of sunnah. By sunnah I mean words and acts of Prophet s.a.w.w. Hadith e saqlian says take care of ahlebait i.e wilayah or love. Read the one mentioned in sahih muslim. Its very explicit in meaning.

Muaiwyah had nothing to do with sunnah. He was the first caliph who openly violated the sunnah. Remember my thread on twelvershia forum. Rightly guided caliphs are only 5 from abu bakr r.a to hassan r.a. Those from ahlul sunnah who believe contrary to this are ignorant.

Based on the Sunni interpretation of Nisa:59, Muawiya was in authority and should be obeyed too. Wasn't it Muawiya who coined the term Ahle-Sunnah wal Jamat and this was based on following the Quran, Prophet and Sunnah of the Caliphs?

6 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

What are the things which make someone a deity. Read Naml 59-64.

I know exactly where you are going with this but let me ask you anyway, when did the sister or a 12er shia say those things about Ali?

6 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

 

History? Any twelver shia book on history?

Blue print of correct history of caliphs is in this book

خلافت و ملوکیت از مولانا مودودی

We can start a separate topic -  Saqifah to Karbala

6 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Views of four imams. Final authority is Quran and sunnah, not our fatwas. Those who do the opposite are not their true followers.

Abu Haneefah said: “This is my opinion, but if there comes someone  whose opinion is better than mine, then accept that.”  And "It is not permitted for anyone to accept our views if they do not know from where we got them."

Maalik said: “I  am only human, I may be right or I may be wrong, so measure my words  by the Qur’aan and Sunnah.”

Al-Shaafa’i said: “If the hadeeth is  saheeh, then ignore my words. If you see well established evidence,  then this is my view.”

Imam Ahmad said: “Do not follow me blindly, and  do not follow Maalik or al-Shaafa’i or al-Thawri blindly. Learn as we  have learned.” And he said, “Do not follow men blindly with regard to  your religion, for they can never be safe from error.”

Same with shias. Your 4 imams have no basis within the Quran and Sunnah but you choose to follow them. They issue fatwa based on Quran and Sunnah which exactly how the shia marajae do it. In fact you do taqleed of one of the 4 imams and then turn around and say taqleed is wrong. What gives?

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