Jump to content
  • 0
alimr313

Allah creating a rock He can't lift paradox?

Rate this question

Question

Some atheists usually use this paradox to belittle the Attributes of Allah, Him being the Creator and All-Powerful: Can Allah create a rock so heavy He can't lift? If He can, He isn't All-Powerful (naoozabillah). If He can't, He can't create anything (naoozabillah). I can't find an argument to combat this paradox. I'm not doubting, I want to be able to debunk this paradox if someone ever questions me about it. I hope no one has asked this before me. If they have, I'm sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

16 answers to this question

Recommended Posts

  • 0

Its an invalid question. Allah is not a creation to be bound or affected by his creation. A simpler way of looking at it, is if a programmer creates a digital rock in the game, world of warcraft. Could the programmer create a rock he cant lift? Is that even a valid question?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

From William Lane Craig: "God can do anything that's possible according to his nature. The distinction is important. God cannot perform logical absurdities; he cannot, for instance, make 1+1=3. Likewise, God cannot make a being greater than himself because he is, by definition, the greatest possible being. God is limited in his actions to his nature."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

In valid Question by logic. Allah is the Qawi and this Qowat is infinit. He can do anything which are logical. He can not do ZULM on someone.

Logically speaking It is not a servant who can test his Lord but it is Lord who can test his servants

This is a complete reply if you under stand

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

I think that Atheists must be given argument in the following way: This paradox fails in the beginning due to following point:

1. If you want God to create a rock, it should be weightless concept first and created out of nothing you have to assign properties to it. And anything that is weightless has to be carried by the one who thinks of it in mind so it lacks eternity. Every property can be assigned to creation except the property of eternity, so if a thing which is not eternal can be carried in fragments by destroying it and if it should be such that it cannot be carried, it must be eternal and must have existed before God. But since we knew that God is eternal and he creates, therefore, there can be nothing that can carry it for created things cannot match the power of eternal. If they can bring a stone which God cannot lift by destroying it, then they can argue that God is not powerful. God can create everything but nothing can survive without him and if there had been something that can survive without Him, God could not have lift it, now tell me which is that thing which he cannot carry. if there is nothing like that than know that Allah is that one whom none can carry. :D

Edited by Irfan1214

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

If they want God to create the rock, God can create it but since it is created, the rock lacks eternity and since themselves said can God create, yes God can create ? But can God create rock that it cannot lift the rock ? you can say that if you want something to be stronger than God, it must be eternal and existed before God, since you say can God create so you are saying that rock should come into existence by God, so it is not eternal and as I already told you something for being powerful have to be eternal but rock is not eternal. So, you are confusing yourself that can God create an eternal thing that has no beginning while you know that creation is the beginning. So creating a thing that has no beginning is out of context. I hope you understand this.

Mathematical symbol

Creation is not equal to eternal.

Edited by Irfan1214

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

In simple words, 

1.God can create a heavy rock, 

2.The rock lacks eternity.

3.eternity tells that God is strongest of all and also than heavy rock.

4.Rock have to be eternal to be heavier to be lifted to have eternal and immeasurable properties which render it impossible to lift.

5.But Rock is not eternal.

6.Rock cannot make itself eternal and did not existed before God

7.Therefore lack of eternity fails the creation.

One must ask is there anything that existed before God and is eternal, the answer is no. 

Edited by Irfan1214

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
6 hours ago, alimr313 said:

Some atheists usually use this paradox to belittle the Attributes of Allah, Him being the Creator and All-Powerful: Can Allah create a rock so heavy He can't lift? If He can, He isn't All-Powerful (naoozabillah). If He can't, He can't create anything (naoozabillah). I can't find an argument to combat this paradox. I'm not doubting, I want to be able to debunk this paradox if someone ever questions me about it. I hope no one has asked this before me. If they have, I'm sorry.

Ain't never heard of "Be and it was", kun fayakun ?

So Allah-swt can't speak again?

That should do it for you.

Afwan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

the question doesn't make any sense - "can Allah do something he cannot do"? it is a paradox. People get caught out by this question because no one really studies logic any more in this day and age. 

a good answer is here, breaking down logical impossibilities:

https://www.quora.com/Is-the-paradox-Can-God-create-a-stone-too-heavy-for-him-to-lift-a-true-paradox-or-is-it-fallacious
 

Quote

 

logical impossibilities are themselves divided into 2 sections, which are: A- Things impossible in their essence: These are matters which are impossible in their essence, without having to even come into existence in order to show their impossibility, for example, the co-existence of two contradictions. B- Things which aren't impossible in their essence, but their coming about necessitates something which is impossible in its essence (impossibilities in occurrence). For example, the existence of an effect without having a cause.

Ordinary impossibilities are matters, which are impossible according to natural laws, but they are not impossible logically. For example, the miraculous changing of a staff into a serpent or the curing of the sick without medicine, or various other miracles. None of these are impossible logically, but it is our ignorance about their causes which makes us count them as practical impossibilities.

 

the article gets a bit deep, but lets just talk about it in layman terms

- Allahs power is limitless
- the question is asking "can Allah limit his power"
- the answer is no. this is the same as saying "can Allah be unjust?" the answer is no, but this "no" does not mean he is limited

my undersanding is that Allah is no more able to create this rock any more than he could do zulm. these would be a paradox. you cannot have two contradictions existing at once, its a logical impossibility

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
11 hours ago, alimr313 said:

Some atheists usually use this paradox to belittle the Attributes of Allah, Him being the Creator and All-Powerful: Can Allah create a rock so heavy He can't lift? If He can, He isn't All-Powerful (naoozabillah). If He can't, He can't create anything (naoozabillah). I can't find an argument to combat this paradox. I'm not doubting, I want to be able to debunk this paradox if someone ever questions me about it. I hope no one has asked this before me. If they have, I'm sorry.

I was asked this question before during my teens (first grade university):

Can Allah create Allah which has higher quality than Himself ?

Honestly, this trouble me in my life.

But, i then think that :

a. I should said to the questioner that :

1. "Who are you darely to ask Allah to do something when all of your elements, algorithms of thinking is created by Allah !".

"We, Muslim, who asked Allah for forgiveness, rizqi, help etc, is not to judge Allah but it means asking to have situation that is possible for attaining the request (i.e. forgiveness, rizqi, help etc.)

2. Show his question is a stupid question (but i cannot right now think about the statement for this).

Anyway, i agree with some above answer that we cannot limit Allah except what is told in Al-Qur'an by the teaching from Ahlul Bayt a.s.

That is all for now, because i cannot recall right now the better answer.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
13 hours ago, alimr313 said:

Some atheists usually use this paradox to belittle the Attributes of Allah, Him being the Creator and All-Powerful: Can Allah create a rock so heavy He can't lift? If He can, He isn't All-Powerful (naoozabillah). If He can't, He can't create anything (naoozabillah). I can't find an argument to combat this paradox. I'm not doubting, I want to be able to debunk this paradox if someone ever questions me about it. I hope no one has asked this before me. If they have, I'm sorry.

While they are at it, enlighten them some more with these facts:

  • Allah can't lie
  • Allah cannot be unjust
  • Allah cannot create a being greater than Allah

and so on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
1 hour ago, myouvial said:

That is all for now, because i cannot recall right now the better answer.

its a similar question brother - it cannot be answered because it is just a cleverly hidden paradox. 

the best way to think about things like these, are that "if I cannot explain my answer to a child, my answer is wrong". 

lets break this down. 

can Allah create a being more superior than himself?

imagine you have a glass, filled with water. can you pour more water in the glass without it over flowing? 

if you cant, does this mean that the glass is flawed, that it cannot take more water?

imagine the glass is the universe, and allahs power is the water. if his power fills every part of the glass, is there room for more?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

 

Copied from here which I think answers clearly

http://www.medinaminds.com/can-god-make-a-stone-so-heavy-he-cant-lift-it/

From the statement we know the subject is about a stone, the property of the stone is that it is so heavy that even an all powerful being can not lift it. The paradox is that God should be able to do and make anything, but if He makes the stone, but then can not lift it, He is not all powerful. If he does not make such a stone, then He is not all powerful, so either option leads to the conclusion that God is not all powerful. How can this be paradox be resolved?

The issue here is the properties of the stone have a contradiction, this stone can not exist, the properties that define it are in contradiction, so the riddle is null and void as there is no such stone for God to make. It would be the same as saying “Can God make a shape which is a triangle and a square in the same respect?”, there is no such shape as the definition of a triangle is incompatible with that of a square, its essence is different, and if we changed the essence, then the triangle wouldn’t be a triangle and the square wouldn’t be a square. These examples do not mean that God is weak, or unable to effect the outcome He wants, but that there is no outcome for Him to desire in this case, not because God is not powerful but because there is nothing to exercise His power over.

One could argue that God could change the essence of the stone, or the triangle and square, however that would not satisfy the question, as if the question stipulates a stone, with a known essence, it is not acceptable to change the essence of a stone in order to complete the challenge. So essentially these types of riddles exposes the concept of essences, or haecceity,  whereby all things have definition and parameters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
On 1/13/2017 at 9:52 PM, myouvial said:

I was asked this question before during my teens (first grade university):

Can Allah create Allah which has higher quality than Himself ?

Honestly, this trouble me in my life.

But, i then think that :

a. I should said to the questioner that :

1. "Who are you darely to ask Allah to do something when all of your elements, algorithms of thinking is created by Allah !".

"We, Muslim, who asked Allah for forgiveness, rizqi, help etc, is not to judge Allah but it means asking to have situation that is possible for attaining the request (i.e. forgiveness, rizqi, help etc.)

2. Show his question is a stupid question (but i cannot right now think about the statement for this).

Anyway, i agree with some above answer that we cannot limit Allah except what is told in Al-Qur'an by the teaching from Ahlul Bayt a.s.

That is all for now, because i cannot recall right now the better answer.

 

This is from al-Kafi :

H 347, Ch. 22, h 2
Ali ibn Muhammad has narrated from Salih ibn Hammad from al-Husayn ibn Yazid from alHassan
ibn Ali ibn abu Hamza from Ibrahim from abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) Who has said the
following.

"Allah, the Most Holy is Whose name, the Most High is Whose praise, the Most Glorious are Whose attributes. He is the Most Sacred, the Most Holy, the only One in oneness. He is
eternal, the First and the Last, the Manifest and the Hidden. There is no beginning for Him.
He is the Most Exalted in His highness. The Highest in power, Exalted in authority, the
greatest in kingdom, the Most bountiful, His Highness is the Most High. He is the One whose
praise no one can complete, and can not bear the knowledge of His Lordship. No one is able
to limit Him because it is not possible to reach Him with qualities.
"

=====

With the quality that noone/nobody/nothing can bear the knowledge of His Lordship, what is your conclusion ?

My conclusion right now is that noone/nobody/nothing can ask Him to do something except what is His commanded us to do to ask Him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Answer this question...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×