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In the Name of God بسم الله

Are you Sincere to Islam?

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If our Prophet Muhammad (P.b.u.H) had been sent in this era, would you even consider His teachings?

If yes....

Have you been open-minded enough to consider other religions or ideas that are against the teachings of your forefathers?

:ideas-worth-pondering:

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I guess if it wasn't for Shia Islam, and didn't truly know the historic events that changed the course of Islam, I must have quitted 'Islam' for Christianity. 

As his highness (SAW) is represented in history and he truly was, Sadiq & Amin., I would definitely listen to., and I am 200% sure I'd have been the first one to embrace Islam, as to what we know of the 'uswa-Hussna' definitely it was his highness (SAW) 's moral character that had convinced people. 

Today the lack of religion can be chalked up to both religious extremism and even more truthfully the lack of 'true characters' among the clerics. I am not talking about noble Clerics such as Sistani and Khameini... but of those who are accessible to, in our neighborhood or in cities... as mostly people look out to them for help. It would have been very hard for them to convince me to embrace Islam therefore. 

But let's not go off-topic.. Yes given his (SAW) Noble Character, who would not have. I guess this question is legitimate, that you have raised, but I guess it's more to do with current state of Islam and Clerics (local mostly) ... than to do with Islam itself, that as we know, has gone through devastation over the past 1400 years.

Edited by ErikCartman
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Great question.

_ Yes, because I normally don't ask for paper degree /hawza qualifications, I go by " look what is being said, not who is saying it"

The prophet had no paper qualifications, accepting him was just based on trust and truthfulness.

I noticed with most people, even if they hear something sensible, they ask what are his paper qualifications. If there is no paper qualification of any kind, the content of what is being said is totally put aside.

There is an obession with degree/paper qualification.

Probably most would reject the prophet because he did not study in hawza to become an Alim or marja thru the way many scholars attain their status.

If he were to teach, everyone would ask him, are you a scholar or marja?

How can we believe you are in direct contact with God. Show us a miracle, if not show us your qualifications with stamp from Qum or Najaf.

Lets be honest to ourselves, who would we choose between a common layman like Mohammad without any formal education in hawza or a top ranking marja? Who would we follow and who would we disregard?

- Yes, I seeked and listened to various discussions and found levels of wisdom in each concept/ religion, but found full wisdom in Islam eventually by the grace of God Alhamdulilah.

Edited by certainclarity
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6 minutes ago, ErikCartman said:

But let's not go off-topic.. Yes given his (SAW) Noble Character, who would not have. I guess this question is legitimate, that you have raised, but I guess it's more to do with current state of Islam and Clerics (local mostly) ... than to do with Islam itself, that as we know, has gone through devastation over the past 1400 years.

4

Bro, the question has less to do with Islam and the Clerics. I want to know if you would be open minded to explore Islam if it was presented to you as a new religion. For example, imagine that you are a Hindu or a Christian. A person named Muhammed or his representatives comes to you to share the teachings of Islam. Will you be open-minded? If you think that you will be open minded to listen to the Prophet (P.b.u.H) or his representatives, can you really prove it by showing that you have actually considered/researched other religions?

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9 minutes ago, Abbas. said:

Bro, the question has less to do with Islam and the Clerics. I want to know if you would be open minded to explore Islam if it was presented to you as a new religion. For example, imagine that you are a Hindu or a Christian. A person named Muhammed or his representatives comes to you to share the teachings of Islam. Will you be open-minded? If you think that you will be open minded to listen to the Prophet (P.b.u.H) or his representatives, can you really prove it by showing that you have actually considered/researched other religions?

As far me, despite you would think I am barely 'relgious' in terms of practing one, but still I have sufficient knoweldge on all school of thoughts. it was actually due to my quest., to find out the truth... I have studied Sahih Bukhari extenseivley and so on.

Yes I gave very significant thought to all religions.... Juda/Christianity/Sunni ... if this is what you wanted to know.

Therefore I tend to praise Tahir Ul Qadri too. If you know who he is. Sunni Call him Shia., like that. 

But still Sunni or other faith didn't convince me enough to quit Shia faith..

I guess i did answer your basic question Yes definitely I am so open minded that I would make no hesitation to consider or even embrace a religion if that made sense according to my set of rules.

But again, you are confusing something., you are comparing 6th Century to 21st .... If Prophet (SAW) had to come in 2017 ... He would be on car, using Truth Brush, and eating KFC.... and having Youtube Channel and perhaps a  Doctor or engineer by profession.

Edited by ErikCartman
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29 minutes ago, ErikCartman said:

I am 200% sure I'd have been the first one to embrace Islam, as to what we know of the 'uswa-Hussna' definitely it was his highness (SAW) 's moral character that had convinced people. 

What if you had to choose between a layman with no hawza qualifications and a very learned scholar (marja)?

For example the marjas you stated and a layman who is rather unknown and without any qualifications to prove himself?

Which would you choose? The marjas you stated or a layman like Mohammad?

Edited by certainclarity
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Just now, ErikCartman said:

But again, you are confusing something., you are comparting 6th Century to 21st .... If Prophet (SAW) had to come in 2017 ... He would be on car, using Truth Brush, and eating KFC.... and having Youtube Channel and perhaps a very Doctor or engineer by profession.

3

No, I am not. Say, if a member of Jehovah's witness knocks your door.... would you welcome him? If an Ismaili/Mirza'i/waqifi presents an argument to you ..... would you be willing to consider it? They all brush their teeth, eat KFC and browse Youtube.....

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17 minutes ago, certainclarity said:

Which would you choose? The marjas you stated or an a layman like Mohammad?

Again, if you are going to compare 6th century with the 21st Century .. it's not going to lead this conversation anywhere... just hold your breathe.. his highness  Imam Mahdi (AS) will blow your mind away... he is going to be most modern dude of 21st Century. 

If you look at Prophet Muahmmad (SAW) he was the most modern dude of 6th Century....

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6 minutes ago, Abbas. said:

No, I am not. Say, if a member of Jehovah's witness knocks your door.... would you welcome him? If an Ismaili/Mirza'i/waqifi presents an argument to you ..... would you be willing to consider it? They all brush their teeth, eat KFC and browse Youtube.....

I told I was so open minded, I even pondered over these faiths without them to visit me... got it????

I studies extensively.. on the same premise.... that I just didn't want to be a Shia Muslim just because I was born to a Shia family .... I asked myself what if Had I born to Sunni family? Had I ever converted to Shia?

Yes in that sense I am not Shia just because I was born to a one.

I have studies Marizai too... you name it bruv! :) He made few flawed arguments like calling himself Mahdi and Jesus at the same time... and also didn't have a character... that apparently I know... and he never added a 'tangible' thing as a 'nabi' nazubillah to religion... they are at best or worst another sect of Islam who went bit 'overboard'.

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7 minutes ago, ErikCartman said:

Again, if you are going to compare 6th century with the 21st Century .. it's not going to lead this conversation... just hold your breathe.. his highness (AS) will blow your mind away... he is going to be most modern dude of 21st Century. 

If you look at Prophet Muahmmad (SAW) he was the most modern dude of 6th Century....

Maybe not, what if he was a simple farmer. There are still people who dont have access to any of what you mentioned.

What if he just had great wisdom and was illiterate ?

Which would you choose  and accept? The marja or the one who just has no degree qualifications but great wisdom?

 

Edited by certainclarity
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2 minutes ago, certainclarity said:

What if he just had great wisdom and was illiterate ?

 

Bruv!! Again you are going back to 6th Century ... you are making a supposition that only worked in 6th Century .... if Allah had to sent a Nabi in 2017 he will be top-notch like all of his Nabi were... in their period.... in 2017 who could be a top-notch hmmmm10 x phds.... and the most most modern one....

Edited by ErikCartman
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I obviously don't speak for others, but I suspect the answer for most of us would be no, as much as we may convince ourselves otherwise. 

Its a matter of common sense probability, even if it's unfortunate. 

Edited by magma
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31 minutes ago, ErikCartman said:

Bruv!! Again you are going back to 6th Century ... you are making a supposition that only worked in 6th Century .... if Allah had to sent a Nabi in 2017 he will be top-notch like all of his Nabi were... in their period.... in 2017 who could be a top-notch hmmmm10 x phds.... and the most most modern one....

Is our century the utmost technolgy from God's point of view?

A prophet could dress up and live the most primitive looking life, but his technology is way advanced then ours.

He may not need a mobile or a car to transport, and be gifted with super natural abilities which technology wont be able to match.

The issue is prophets dont require to attend hawza or uni for a phd degree, they are given the knowledge by God, and as you said, phd x 10 or more.

With all the modern technology in 2017, no one has achieved splitting the Ocean with a shaft like Moses did even way before Muhammad. Jesus revived the dead after 60 years of death, can modern technology and medicine compete with that although Jesus was even way before Muhammad?

So we are still behind Moses and Jesus up to this day even though they lived before the 6th century!

Our technology is like a joke for those prophets who lived way before even the 6th century lol

But thats not the point.

The point is, if a layman talked with more wisdom than a marja but has no degree to show you, would you accept the wiser explanation or ask him to show you a degree?

I don't know if you are aware, Avicenna's mentor in irfan was an illiterate man named Abu Saeed Abul kheyr!

I can bring you another real example right away. Not so long ago about an illitrate farmer, although most marjas said he was a miracle, most did not ask him questions out of fear.

His story is documented in Iran as an illiterate farmer, and complained against scholars.

Here is his brief documentary if you wish to see, his complain towards the end is something to really ponder on:

 

Edited by certainclarity
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1 hour ago, Abbas. said:

 

Have you been open-minded enough to consider other religions or ideas that are against the teachings of your forefathers?

:ideas-worth-pondering:

No with regards to other religions, but I have been inclined to adopt other ideas and teachings within the religion, that go against what I've been taught. 

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In the time of the prophet (pbuh) people generally became muslim for a few negative reasons:

- they were slaves who wanted to be free of slavery
- they were low class and wanted to be given respect
- they were alone and wanted companions
- they were poor and saw an opportunity for wealth

there were also people who became muslim for positive reasons

- they saw the Prophet (S) and knew he was truthful
- they believed his arguments and accepted his arguments
- they followed what their leaders did
- they came to debate, but were defeated

there was also a group of people who

- only believed in islam after witnessing miracles
- only believed in islam after the conquest of mecca

if I was born a kaffir, I think I would fall into the category of those who would try and debate, but would be defeated and forced to accept the truthfulness

Edited by DigitalUmmah
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2 minutes ago, Pearl178 said:

No with regards to other religions, but I have been inclined to adopt other ideas and teachings within the religion, that go against what I've been taught. 

If you have gone that far, why not go an extra mile of considering other religions too?

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Just now, Pearl178 said:

I think i'm too scared to go that far. The fear of not knowing what i'll find out. 

If the intention to go far enough is to please Allah and to remain steadfast to the principle of following the religion of reason/haq, why create obstacles of fear?

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@Abbas. If you saw the Earth from space as curved would you question yourself if somebody said it was flat?

I do think, however, that often the "faith" of the faithful isn't really faith but just the result if amassing a tonne of cultural practices.

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How exactly we missed our Ali(as). Hmm even 1400 years later. We have yet to see a man who was as knowledgeable, mighty and warrior and politician, and techy. 

The sole point I am trying to make again. How exactly Allah will choose a person for a job who is not at least 100 light years ahead of you in 2017  like Ali was in 6th century   who was even lower in rank than prophet saw

All the confusion is because of the Dawah who are still stuck in 6th century using truth brush does not count as 21st century compatible. 

Yes if God had to sent a prophet and new religion it was going to be according to 2017 people and coveyed a message in suit in a pure American accent and perhaps some one more capable of than the CEO of Apple or google. 

All the confusion is because of 6th century traditions that have made it to 2017 by religious g folks. Like turbans I meant even Christian an Jews wore turbans back then it never had anything to do with Islam 

*mobile on

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26 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

if I was born a kaffir, I think I would fall into the category of those who would try and debate, but would be defeated and forced to accept the truthfulness

Thats great!

So, if you were to have a discussion & debate and there were two top notch marja you have deep respect for and a unknown person without degree, and if He answers all you questions with full logic that blows your mind and even defeats your marja and prove them wrong , who would you accept and follow?

Edited by certainclarity
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1 hour ago, Abbas. said:

If our Prophet Muhammad (P.b.u.H) had been sent in this era, would you even consider His teachings?

If yes....

Have you been open-minded enough to consider other religions or ideas that are against the teachings of your forefathers?

:ideas-worth-pondering:

Only an idiot would disbelieve after witnessing miracles.

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11 minutes ago, certainclarity said:

So, if you were to have a discussion & debate and there were two top notch marja you have deep respect for and a unknown person without degree, and if He answers all you questions with full logic that blows your mind and even defeats your marja and prove them wrong , who would you accept and follow?

good question. 

If I was to ask someone who claimed to be Masum (as), I would ask a question that only a Masum (as) could answer. 

- Something personal about me that no one else could know
- something related to secret knowledge of the universe

along these sorts of questions. 

the respected Maraji would not be able to answer, while the Masum (S) definitely would. 

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1 minute ago, DigitalUmmah said:

If I was to ask someone who claimed to be Masum (as), I would ask a question that only a Masum (as) could answer. 

People did that, and still disbelieved, calling it a coincidence, witchcraft, magic, etc, so that's no 100% guarantee. To some, no answers were sufficient. 

What else you got to be sure?

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Just now, magma said:

People did that, and still disbelieved, calling it a coincidence, witchcraft, magic, etc, so that's no 100% guarantee. To some, no answers were sufficient. 

What else you got to be sure?

I have unfortunately spent most of my life around fake peers, and fake gurus. I have spent years sitting with them and proving them false. I know what questions to ask which only someone truthful would be able to answer. 

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29 minutes ago, silasun said:

@Abbas. If you saw the Earth from space as curved would you question yourself if somebody said it was flat?

 

I think that this is a wrong analogy. The right analogy is that if I had observed the Earth to be flat (as it appears to be on first sight) and someone told me that it was not flat, would I be open minded to consider the counter-argument?

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15 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

good question. 

If I was to ask someone who claimed to be Masum (as), I would ask a question that only a Masum (as) could answer. 

- Something personal about me that no one else could know
- something related to secret knowledge of the universe

along these sorts of questions. 

the respected Maraji would not be able to answer, while the Masum (S) definitely would. 

What if it were a situation like peshawar nights,or the discourses Jafar and Reza had with people on religion, not something personal about you ( I say Jafar and Reza just to remove the notion of precondition thinking)

Simply based on strong logic.

Would you still accept a person who speaks absolute pure logic with strong indications of superior wisdom, but without any formal degree to show you, or would you incline with a top notch marja but cannot compete  with the person without a degree from hawza and years of study?

As you know people chosen by God don't need to attend hawza to learn knowledge, they can even correct all the errors in the system.

Edited by certainclarity
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Just now, certainclarity said:

What if it were a situation like peshawar nights,or the discourses Jafar and Reza had with people on religion, not something personal about you ( I saw Jafar and Reza just to remove the notion of a precondition thinking)

Simply based on strong logic.

Would you still accept a person who speaks absolute pure logic with strong inications of superior wisdom, but without any formal degree to show you, or would you incline with a top notch marja but cannot compete  with the person without a degree from hawza and years of study?

As you know people chosen by God don't need to attend hawza to learn knowledge, they can even correct all the errors in the system.

Logic is a slippery slope. especially to a layman. 

for example where is the logic that the prophet (S) rode a winged horse made of lightening with the face of a woman up to heaven?

instead of logic, we can use something actually measurable and provable and practical. for example if lets say I had a grandparent who buried a treasure chest before death, and told no one. in years of searching no one could find it. would a marja be able to tell me exactly where it was buried? would a magician? would someone who controlled jinn? 

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4 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Logic is a slippery slope. especially to a layman. 

for example where is the logic that the prophet (S) rode a winged horse made of lightening with the face of a woman up to heaven?

instead of logic, we can use something actually measurable and provable and practical. for example if lets say I had a grandparent who buried a treasure chest before death, and told no one. in years of searching no one could find it. would a marja be able to tell me exactly where it was buried? would a magician? would someone who controlled jinn? 

Have you heard the discourse of Imam Reza with the christians , jews and the Sabian? 

It was pure logic and discource. Only the Sabian accepted the Imam. This is what I am talking about.

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Just now, certainclarity said:

Have you heard the discourse of Imam Reza with the christians , jews and the Sabian? 

It was pure logic and discource. Only the Sabian accepted the Imam. This is what I am talking about.

yes of course, also see the hadith of the myrobalan fruit (my personal favourite) with Imam Jaafar Sadiq (as)

I think different people need different arguments, but ultimately all of them come back to the Masum (as) proving their ilm ghayb.

for example the christians had knowledge of their book that they did not share, which the Imam (as) proved he knew, which is what convinced them. this is something a Masum (as) would do, to prove that only they would know such a thing. 

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32 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

- Something personal about me that no one else could know
- something related to secret knowledge of the universe

along these sorts of questions. 

Hey the first one is very easy answer by even a student of Sufism. So don't count on them. The second one require wali Ullah status. 

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Are you Sincere to Islam?

Most of the answers given to the question are unfortunately irrelevant. The question does not ask you whether or not you are open-minded. As I understand, the question asks as to whether or not you are sincere towards your religion, following its directives one by one. In other words, the question intends to know whether you practice Islamic teachings or just claiming that you are a Muslim. If my understanding of the question is correct, I am of the view that unfortunately most of the Muslims are not that much sincere towards their religion. They verbally accept Islamic teachings; they propagate Islamic teachings; they defend Islamic teachings against rival religions, but when it comes to practice many are lagging far behind. Islam is very concerned about speaking the truth. But how many Muslims do you know who are strictly faithful to this principle? People might speak the truth but as long as it does not harm their interests. However the moment their interests are in conflict with honesty they will abandon the principle of honesty or speaking the truth. This is not sincerity. If we are sincere towards our religion we must stand by it through thick and thin. Islam is also very much mindful of the principle of justice. But how many Muslims are there who really follow this principle at home and abroad? I suppose we follow this principle as long as it does not clash with our vested interests and as long as it does not threaten ourselves and our kin. However as soon as we sense that we are threatened by this principle we will not stop short of putting it aside. Therefore I wonder if we are really sincere towards the teachings of our religion.

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