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Akbar673

Christians and Halal Meat in the Bible

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So I recently came across this passage of the Bible (on a conservative blog of all places) which many Christians (on the blog) claimed was their reason for having an issue with stores in the US selling meat as Halal meat. (As soon as its made public that a mainstream store sells Halal there's a huge outcry).

http://biblehub.com/acts/15-29.htm (the website lists multiple versions of this passage from various Bible listings)

Quote

You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.

I'm assuming that they are quoting this passage because they deem our version of God (Allah) to be a False Idol.

Would anyone care to offer info on this?

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Yes, that's it. Not even necessarily that they think Allah is an idol, but that Paul wrote about avoiding sacrificed meat because people might perceive it as supporting that religion. By extension, and just in case, they want to avoid halal meat so people don't think they support Islam. 

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26 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.

Isn't that we are supposed to do as Muslims? We don't pray to idols or eat food sacrificed to them. Nor do we eat the flesh of animals gored or strangled.

^That's basically halal meat what Paul described and we are also told to avoid sexual immorality as well.

They (conservative Christians) have absolutely no biblical proof whatsoever as why halal meat is against Christianity. 

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2 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

I was wondering if we could see a response to this from a Christian.

Doubt we have any conservative Christians on here but if we do I'd love to see their replies.

My mom is who told me what I wrote.  She's not all that conservative, but she's Christian.  She converted from Lutheran to Catholic when she was young, and is pretty knowledgeable about Catholic teachings.

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Quran 6:118 - So eat of that (meat) on which Allah's Name has been pronounced (while slaughtering the animal), if you are believers in His Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.).

Quran 6:121 - Eat not of (meats) on which Allah's name hath not been pronounced: That would be impiety. But the evil ones ever inspire their friends to contend with you if ye were to obey them, ye would indeed be Pagans.

Quran 2:173 - He has forbidden you only the Maytatah (dead animals), and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that which is slaughtered as a scrifice for others than Allah (or has been slaughtered for idols, etc., on which Allah's Name has not been mentioned while slaughtering). But if one is forced by necessity without wilful disobedience nor transgressing due limits, then there is no sin on him. Truly, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

I think the problem arises during the process of slaughtering the animal to MAKE it halal. We think doing certain rituals like the slaughterer having to be predominantly Muslim, having to chat a praise solely to Allah before killing it, abstaining from certain meats etc etc., makes it like a form of idolizing since God did not command these certain rituals to us. Shieks are also another religion that are prohibited to eating ritual slaughtered foods. Allah being considered a false idol MAY also have influence on deciding whether it is idolizing. (For more Ayats go to Surah 5:3, 5:5, 6:118, & 16:115.)

John 1:29 - The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. 

1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 

1 Timothy‬ ‭(4‬:‭3-5‬) -  Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.        

Doctrine of Christianity supports all meats being halal to eat and gives us a tradition, not a ritual, of giving blessings to the food and giving God thanks through a prayer. One of Jesus Christ's attributes or names is the perfect lamb of God as he was sacrificed for humanity so that God can be reconciled with us through atonement. Therefore, the laws of "halal" or "kosher" food according to the Sabbath are no longer in place as it was written when Jesus said, "It is finished".

Mark (2:27-28) - And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Colossians 2:16 - Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, The_Bible said:

Therefore, the laws of "halal" or "kosher" food according to the Sabbath are no longer in place as it was written when Jesus said, "It is finished".

Interesting to know.

So why no outcry by conservative Christians when it comes to Kosher meat being sold in the U.S.? Why go only after Halal?

I'm assuming its simply because Jews aren't viewed as Pagans/Heathens/etc...the way Muslims are.

That was sort of the basis of my original post. To clarify that conservative Christianity views Islam as a pagan or false idol religion.

I guess we're the only ones that believe that our God is the same as that of the Jews & Christians. 

Edited by Akbar673

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44 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

 

I'm assuming its simply because Jews aren't viewed as Pagans/Heathens/etc...the way Muslims are.

 

which is surprising being that Jews assert that Jesus was not the messiah and reject his entire prophethood in general.

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23 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

Interesting to know.

So why no outcry by conservative Christians when it comes to Kosher meat being sold in the U.S.? Why go only after Halal?

I'm assuming its simply because Jews aren't viewed as Pagans/Heathens/etc...the way Muslims are.

That was sort of the basis of my original post. To clarify that conservative Christianity views Islam as a pagan or false idol religion.

I guess we're the only ones that believe that our God is the same as that of the Jews & Christians. 

Lol I knew a jab at the Jews was going to come..I'm not sure I haven't heard no1 complain about halal or kosher food but it seems it has to be because Jews are a minority in the U.S. and do not partake in the same negative stigmas as Islam. Jews were the first to begin Judaism and according to Christian theology they still are viewed as the chosen people of God. Christianity was started by Jesus Christ  who was a Jew and his Jewish apostles so as the verses that I mentioned above he claims to be the fulfillment of the Sabbath. Islam came out of nowhere with a Arabic man that claimed he was a prophet 600 years after Christ so the burden of proof is really on Muslims to prove how and why it is the final correct revelation by God.

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7 minutes ago, Jafar moh said:

which is surprising being that Jews assert that Jesus was not the messiah and reject his entire prophethood in general.

God gave a promise to Abraham he needs to keep so we have to still consider them as the chosen people no matter how stubborn and wrong they are. The Bible also mentions fake Jews who claim the religion are part of the synagogue of satan. I would assume that would refer to the Zionist that have political power and enforce certain laws rather than the regular Jewish practicing Jews. There are still messianic Jews out there who accept Christian beliefs but retain their Jewish heritage. Christianity was created by Jews and the Bible also gives a prophecy about 12,000 Jews from EACH of the 12 tribes of Israel being spared from God's wrath after the rapture. Meanwhile, throughout history they have suffered alot of tribulations as well.

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2 hours ago, The_Bible said:

Islam came out of nowhere with a Arabic man that claimed he was a prophet 600 years after Christ so the burden of proof is really on Muslims to prove how and why it is the final correct revelation by God.

And...my point is proven.

Thanks for playing.

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anyone can interpret this passage in ways that justify opposition to halal. Youre probably coming in contact with people who just generally feel uncomfortable with Islam as a whole, to the extent that they wouldnt want halal regardless of what scripture did or did not say.

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3 hours ago, The_Bible said:

Jews were the first to begin Judaism and according to Christian theology they still are viewed as the chosen people of God. Christianity was started by Jesus Christ  who was a Jew and his Jewish apostles so as the verses that I mentioned above he claims to be the fulfillment of the Sabbath. Islam came out of nowhere with a Arabic man that claimed he was a prophet 600 years after Christ so the burden of proof is really on Muslims to prove how and why it is the final correct revelation by God.

 

Ibrahim was neither a jew nor a christian and was before Prophet Moses and Jesus.

He sacrificed a lamb.

Probably We should stick to Ibrahim and disregard all after him then?

Edited by certainclarity

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Probably lots of propaganda about "cruel" Muslim slaughtering practices, when most Christians willingly eat the animal torturing/machine slaughtered stuff. 

Or maybe "halal" means a weird oriental ritual of witchcraft, "koodies" were put on it, or it's part of some conspiracy to introduce poisonous alien food to innocent palates of the bright eyed. 

Or it serves as a reminder that Muslims are "different" and don't accept "our" food. Or a reminder that Muslims are human beings who dare to visibly placate their own preferences and will within mainstream society like others do freely and without controversy. We're not afforded that privilege, because by default, we're on the defensive with two strikes, and our social capital is near zero. Because apparently we're sub humans, and our crimes outweigh everyone else.

 

Edited by magma

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1 hour ago, certainclarity said:

 

Ibrahim was neither a jew nor a christian and was before Prophet Moses and Jesus.

He sacrificed a lamb.

Probably We should stick to Ibrahim and disregard all after him then?

Abraham was a Hebrew but is attributed as the father of Judaism so yes he is a Jew bc he started Judaism. In Christian theology he is called the father of faith. Abraham sacrificing a lamb was also a prophecy of Jesus Christ

Edited by The_Bible

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1 hour ago, magma said:

Probably lots of propaganda about "cruel" Muslim slaughtering practices, when most Christians willingly eat the animal torturing/machine slaughtered stuff. 

Or maybe "halal" means a weird oriental ritual of witchcraft, "koodies" were put on it, or it's part of some conspiracy to introduce poisonous alien food to innocent palates of the bright eyed. 

Or it serves as a reminder that Muslims are "different" and don't accept "our" food. Or a reminder that Muslims are human beings who dare to visibly placate their own preferences and will within mainstream society like others do freely and without controversy. We're not afforded that privilege, because by default, we're on the defensive with two strikes, and our social capital is near zero. Because apparently we're sub humans, and our crimes outweigh everyone else.

 

LOL what are you talking about? Christians eat any food bc none is prohibited. We are not held responsible for how governments in certain parts of the world want to slaughter and distribute the food. According to our scriptures it is a form of idolizing whether by your theology makes it halal or w.e is irrelevant. Now yes there are other forms that people's government may allow idolization but that is not the argument we are speaking about RITUALS done by certain individuals and even worse when is promoted by a religion. Muslims can do what they want but Muslims also do not stay in their countries but travel and they have to accept the governmental laws that the country offers just like any other citizen has. 

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2 hours ago, The_Bible said:

It's truth.

From the Christian perspective (or any other religion for that matter), the same as how we view Christianity and Judaism as corrupted religions.

but then we could go back and forth on this endlessly...you to your beliefs and we to ours.

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1 hour ago, magma said:

Or it serves as a reminder that Muslims are "different" and don't accept "our" food. Or a reminder that Muslims are human beings who dare to visibly placate their own preferences and will within mainstream society like others do freely and without controversy. We're not afforded that privilege, because by default, we're on the defensive with two strikes, and our social capital is near zero. Because apparently we're sub humans, and our crimes outweigh everyone else.

 

You hit the nail on the head. However, we need to keep in mind that the US is their country and Muslims are just the immigrants.

We're just the heathen pagan foreigners the same as how Christians are in Muslim countries. Only difference is that when we see a Christian in one of our countries we don't attempt to shut down their practices.

Religion battles will lead to WWIII.

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8 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

You hit the nail on the head. However, we need to keep in mind that the US is their country and Muslims are just the immigrants.

We're just the heathen pagan foreigners the same as how Christians are in Muslim countries. Only difference is that when we see a Christian in one of our countries we don't attempt to shut down their practices.

Religion battles will lead to WWIII.

You don't try to shut down our practices ehh? Have you done ANY research around the world to see how this religion is affecting people outside of comfy America? Every day people are killed for going against sharia law by being apostates, being violated, being homosexual, practicing a different faith and many more "crimes" that shouldn't be crimes punishable by death.

Let's not overlook all of the horrors that Islam harbors overseas in favor of a limited and comfortable view of a religion that does not offer that same comfort to millions upon millions overseas. Christians aren't actively persecuting or beheading people in the name of Jesus Christ in our judicial systems as A LOT of countries who practice Islam/ Sharia law do. Saying something's a sin and killing people for it are far two different things and it's driving a propaganda that millions of Muslims believe. I do agree that religion & government will have MOST to do with WWIII.

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9 minutes ago, The_Bible said:

You don't try to shut down our practices ehh? Have you done ANY research around the world to see how this religion is affecting people outside of comfy America? Every day people are killed for going against sharia law by being apostates, being violated, being homosexual, practicing a different faith and many more "crimes" that shouldn't be crimes punishable by death.

Let's not overlook all of the horrors that Islam harbors overseas in favor of a limited and comfortable view of a religion that does not offer that same comfort to millions upon millions overseas. Christians aren't actively persecuting or beheading people in the name of Jesus Christ in our judicial systems as A LOT of countries who practice Islam/ Sharia law do. Saying something's a sin and killing people for it are far two different things and it's driving a propaganda that millions of Muslims believe. I do agree that religion & government will have MOST to do with WWIII.

You're just another bigot.

You take the actions of a small number of extremists and paint the entire religion with it.

Either way this discussion is a waste of time.

Best to you in your search for whatever truth you search for (or claim to have found)

Edited by Akbar673

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1 hour ago, The_Bible said:

Galatians 4:16 - Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

I will admit that you have been more respectful in your talk and dialogue in these past week or two, however I still think it is necessary to point out the obvious when it is being shown; I do not think that you are being fair when we can find endless examples of atrocities done in the name of religion, including Christians.

I love how you said we don't actively persecuting and killing in the name of Jesus... so you admit it has been done before? Listen Galatians 4:16 is beautiful and all but I really don't see that you are being truthful here... much less fair.

watch this as it is important, 

 

 

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4 hours ago, The_Bible said:

You don't try to shut down our practices ehh? Have you done ANY research around the world to see how this religion is affecting people outside of comfy America? Every day people are killed for going against sharia law by being apostates, being violated, being homosexual, practicing a different faith and many more "crimes" that shouldn't be crimes punishable by death.

In a previous discussion, you arrogantly told us who's a real Muslim and who isn't. Now you're preaching to us what our religion supposedly is. It doesn't work that way. 

Your tactic of painting some undesirable elements as representives of Islam, defining and imposing the terms of others for them, and smear tactics, all reek of the worst of global media propaganda, religious charlatans, and mischief makers. Does the Bible make any reference to creating false and dishonest discord in the Earth? Is there a Biblical equivalent to the concept of fitnah?

We know more about our religion than you. So quiet down, and learn. That's what I would do in unfamiliar waters. You're not going to convert anyone here, especially with these cheap evangelical tactics. We're all way too smart for that here. We have the internet, and we're not unsuspecting and destitute masses in colonial Africa, where this nonsense went unabated for centuries.

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On 1/9/2017 at 4:12 PM, The_Bible said:

Doctrine of Christianity supports all meats being halal to eat and gives us a tradition, not a ritual, of giving blessings to the food and giving God thanks through a prayer. One of Jesus Christ's attributes or names is the perfect lamb of God as he was sacrificed for humanity so that God can be reconciled with us through atonement. Therefore, the laws of "halal" or "kosher" food according to the Sabbath are no longer in place as it was written when Jesus said, "It is finished".

Mark (2:27-28) - And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Colossians 2:16 - Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days

But this doesn't reconcile with the fact that James, the brother of Jesus, ordered non-Jews to abstain from blood and certain meats after Jesus supposedly did away with all the laws.

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Atrocities all over the world in how meat has been prepared. None of the extreme examples reflect the norm.

There's a much simpler reason why the US, and Canada for that matter, reject Halal meats. It's an illegal practice to kill without rendering the animal unconscious first. Chances are good the vast majority of Americans have no idea why halal slaughter is illegal in their country. They just don't like the reminder that Islam is that close to home.

By knocking out a cow before slaughter it doesn't go through the stress of watching itself die and therefore the muscles are relaxed leaving the flesh more tender than stressed. The thing that makes Muslims look for halal meats is the illusion of all the ugly things evil people did to kill it, but seriously, American beef is not prayed over, (halal/kosher) Halal is prayed over at time of slaughter, kosher is a prayer link in the distribution chain.

The Christian thing to do is to pray and give thanks when it is prepared and on the table. If Muslims were willing to give thanks and ask blessing with their own prayers there should be no problem with American meats. 

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