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Mohamed1993

Sick of these "liberal" Muslims

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I have been noticing a trend recently with many Muslim activists like Reza Aslan, Linda Sarsour in the West trying so hard to appease people and trying hard to prove that Islam is not what they think it is. Why have Muslims in the West reached a point where pleasing people is more important than pleasing God? It's amazing, we have people that are so incredibly fragile now that we need acceptance, validation, approval etc. It honestly infuriates me, have we learnt nothing from history? Our imams had very very few genuine followers and most people sided with their wealthy oppressors, but they stood their ground. But today we have Muslims willing to bend the rules of Islam, and willing to call out countries like Iran for example for oppressing women, saying that doesn't represent Islam blah blah blah, when funnily enough they should be asking questions like how liberated do women feel in the west when they are expected to wear makeup and use all sorts of products on themselves to be taken seriously at a job interview, and that men do end up judging their looks more than their intelligence, so the fact that they don't have to wear hijab and can dress however is hardly very liberating, when there is objectification from that angle taking place. Day by day I see Muslims trying so hard to bend rules and to normalize non-Islamic practices common in the west as Islamic. With such a loss of identity, what future can we hope for for our kids growing up in the West? I think we're going to reach a point where it'll be almost impossible to live in the west while holding on to our religion. 

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Whats wrong with Reza Aslan? Forgive me in advance, Ive only seen a few of his interviews, and only briefly know about him, but he seems like a great guy? Last I heard of him, hes hosting a show on CNN called believer 

Edited by magma
Long quote not necessary

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28 minutes ago, Bazzi_ said:

Whats wrong with Reza Aslan? Forgive me in advance, Ive only seen a few of his interviews, and only briefly know about him, but he seems like a great guy? Last I heard of him, hes hosting a show on CNN called believer 

He believes in creating a Muslim version of the show Will&Grace, which helped change the perception of the LGBT community in America, the problem with such shows is they will probably show a whitewashed version of Islam and paint Muslims as liberals, and we aren't liberals, we are Muslims, which means there are certain practices like homosexuality and abortion that are forbidden in Islam, and we cannot support these practices. Whether or not it's the state's job to legislate over it differs from Muslim to Muslim, but you cannot claim to be Muslim and then normalize these practices. We have a different moral code and we don't have to try and amend that moral code to fit in with the West, we really don't.

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We're living in the end times brother. Nothing that creates difference/fitna in Islam should come as a surprise anymore. Slowly and surely it will be like holding onto a burning rope. We must remain steadfast. This has all been prophesied.

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It is time to recognize/know/understand more deeply, broadly, highly, weightily, variously of Allah SWT for them. Otherwise, there is risk of forgetting themselves by themselves.

It is time for you who understand the problems to prepare and set readily the teaching method of recognizing/knowing/understanding more deeply, broadly, highly, weightily, variously of Allah SWT.

It is time for me who lacks of understanding of Allah SWT from Ahlul Bayt a.s.'s teaching to read, translate to my language many various old book from Ahlul Bayt a.s.'s teaching/hadith (right now reading and translating the book of al-Kafi by Kulayni).

Edited by magma
Long quote not necessary

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26 minutes ago, P. Ease said:

We're living in the end times brother. Nothing that creates difference/fitna in Islam should come as a surprise anymore. Slowly and surely it will be like holding onto a burning rope. We must remain steadfast. This has all been prophesied.

 

30 minutes ago, Mohamed1993 said:

He believes in creating a Muslim version of the show Will&Grace, which helped change the perception of the LGBT community in America, the problem with such shows is they will probably show a whitewashed version of Islam and paint Muslims as liberals, and we aren't liberals, we are Muslims, which means there are certain practices like homosexuality and abortion that are forbidden in Islam, and we cannot support these practices. Whether or not it's the state's job to legislate over it differs from Muslim to Muslim, but you cannot claim to be Muslim and then normalize these practices. We have a different moral code and we don't have to try and amend that moral code to fit in with the West, we really don't.

I posted this on another forum, but ill post it again

Quote 

there is psychological manipulation happening on an enormous scale, pushing for the acceptance of homosexuality and it being something normal. It's been happening for many years but it's now that the effects are starting to show greatly. It's not just happening in movies but also in music, cartoons, books, magazines, radio, and games etc.

Another example, and this is something I've seen myself many times, is how they're manipulating the minds of the viewers to think less of religion and disregard it completely, even hate it. For example, there'll be a main character talking to a friend about, let's say, an investigation, there'll be another good character with them who is also well known but perhaps not as likable as the rest of the characters, he'll offer his insight into the matter from a religious point of view or say something related to religion and suddenly the camera would show the face of one of the main characters, who the viewer has an emotional attachment to, rolling their eyes with a sigh in response and then the camera would go back to the person talking. This is just one example but it occurs in so many different ways. It's a very subtle gesture but has an immense impact upon the viewer especially if the viewer really likes the character. Of course it doesn't always mean there's some sort of agenda behind it, but this happens a lot and it's especially obvious when it's accompanied by specific dialogue and other actions, which I'm not going to get into detail about.

Another example, though not targeting religion in general but more specifically Islam, is how you'll see headlines on websites and newspapers like, "MUSLIM MAN DOES X" or "ISLAM DEMANDS X" etc, but sometimes right next to this you'll see a large picture of a woman who is probably almost naked. One of the reasons they do this is because they know that once such a bold and negative headline has been seen by the viewer his attention will immediately be drawn back to the woman and he'll forget about the headline, which then slips into his subconscious mind as something to always be aware of. When you place something negative and fearful next to something beautiful and pleasurable, especially something that relates to sex and causes excitement and sexual arousal, it generates greater anger and hatred towards the negative object in the person viewing it although no signs of this anger and hatred may manifest outwardly. This happens because the person sees it as a threat against his sexual desires. Thus, in this case, the person then develops a stronger hatred for Islam and Muslims. No human being wants to feel negative and fearful when they're excited and enjoying themselves, even if briefly. However, this sort of manipulation can be used against anything, like political issues, not just religion or Islam.

 

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In most cases, it's not about pleasing the public. They grew up with a different sense of right and wrong. How we read and understand religion (or any text for the matter) is a reflection of ourselves and the world view we hold. The difference boils down to accepted reason.

 

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37 minutes ago, yusur317 said:

In most cases, it's not about pleasing the public. They grew up with a different sense of right and wrong. How we read and understand religion (or any text for the matter) is a reflection of ourselves and the world view we hold. The difference boils down to accepted reason.

 

^Exactly 

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2 hours ago, Bazzi_ said:

Whats wrong with Reza Aslan? Forgive me in advance, Ive only seen a few of his interviews, and only briefly know about him, but he seems like a great guy? Last I heard of him, hes hosting a show on CNN called believer 

He's anti-Iran and Hezbollah.

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9 minutes ago, Hassan Y said:

He's anti-Iran and Hezbollah.

Yeah he's Iranian but his family moved to the US just around the time of the Islamic revolution, they're probably huge shah loyalists and he refers to the clerics in a derogatory way as the "mullahs".

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2 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

he refers to the clerics in a derogatory way as the "mullahs".

That's a big red flag, in my opinion. 

Few self-respecting Muslims would use the term "mullahs", even if they are sworn enemies of the IRI system. The word is a straight orientalist concoction for the media to use, akin  to old ones in the past like "Mohamedanism", etc. Words only non-Muslims use and understand. 

So for a Muslim to use it, they really have to be...

 

Edited by magma

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look at this 2008 thread, are we more lenient today than we were in the past? this is by some one named skylight1 in 2008

a liberal is usually pro-west/america and loves imitating the "west" and being a puppet of the "west" - a conservative is someone who is against imperialism, and wishes to imitate the Prophet (pbuh) and follows the Qur'an, and the ahlul-bayt.

and here is one by someone named guest,in same thread

 

Here are some examples:

"Conservative" Muslim - Will not go to any event that has something haram in it at all (ex: alcohol)

"Liberal" Muslim - Will go to the event, but will not engage in the haram (ex: alcohol)

"Conservative" Muslim - Going to Friday Prayers is a must if you are capable.

"Liberal" Muslim - Going to Friday Prayers is optional as long as your "intentions" are good.

"Conservative" Muslim - Islam is the only right path. (Anti-Religious Pluralism)

"Liberal" Muslim - All religions are good as long as you are a "good" person (Pro-Religious Pluralism)

These might be some of the differences people talk about. There obviously are a lot more.

 

Edited by sidnaq

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On 1/4/2017 at 8:08 PM, Mohamed1993 said:

He believes in creating a Muslim version of the show Will&Grace, which helped change the perception of the LGBT community in America, the problem with such shows is they will probably show a whitewashed version of Islam and paint Muslims as liberals, and we aren't liberals, we are Muslims, which means there are certain practices like homosexuality and abortion that are forbidden in Islam, and we cannot support these practices. Whether or not it's the state's job to legislate over it differs from Muslim to Muslim, but you cannot claim to be Muslim and then normalize these practices. We have a different moral code and we don't have to try and amend that moral code to fit in with the West, we really don't.

Theres sort of the same shpeal in Christianity.  People just do not hold identical views within a religion.  A pretty obvious case for this is with regards to ISIS.  You have to recognize that people view their respective religion in different ways. They come from different backgrounds and have different perspectives. As someone else posted in this topic, it isnt necessarily a matter of trying to fit in, any more than it is a matter of simply viewing their religion from an alternate perspective.

I've met some pretty liberal sufis, and ive met liberal shia and sunnis as well.  But they are just as much muslim as any other ive come across, just with different perspectives.

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Reading his backround 

 

"At the age of 15 he converted to evangelical Christianity. He converted back to Islam the summer before attending Harvard" 

 

His wife is Christian as well.... I thought you had to convert?

 

Pretty bright guy though, Harvad educated, Phd in Soc-, I mainly know him from msm interviews, nothing more

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1 hour ago, iCambrian said:

Theres sort of the same shpeal in Christianity.  People just do not hold identical views within a religion.  A pretty obvious case for this is with regards to ISIS.  You have to recognize that people view their respective religion in different ways. They come from different backgrounds and have different perspectives. As someone else posted in this topic, it isnt necessarily a matter of trying to fit in, any more than it is a matter of simply viewing their religion from an alternate perspective.

I've met some pretty liberal sufis, and ive met liberal shia and sunnis as well.  But they are just as much muslim as any other ive come across, just with different perspectives.

The problem is why does there even have to be an alternative perspective? Surely the ignorant people will just continue to be ignorant and hold their biases? Many intelligent people are well aware of distinctions across the board. So the creation of such shows only serves to appeal to the ignorant people who already have a bias, which will be very difficult to change, so what good will that even do? Also, I find it a bit problematic that a muslim would have a show on what muslims are like? None of us here are perfect muslims, we try but we're nowhere near what a perfect muslim is, only the prophet, some of his family and his closest companions were perfect, so given that, I don't think its fair to make a show about how people are and then link that to Islam or being a Muslim. It is how Reza Aslan is and maybe a few other people, they may identify as muslim but not everything they do will be in accordance with Islamic teachings, so I think its rather misleading to have such a show as well. 

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1 hour ago, Bazzi_ said:

Reading his backround 

 

"At the age of 15 he converted to evangelical Christianity. He converted back to Islam the summer before attending Harvard" 

 

His wife is Christian as well.... I thought you had to convert?

 

Pretty bright guy though, Harvad educated, Phd in Soc-, I mainly know him from msm interviews, nothing more

I used to think of people who were educated with all sorts of degrees as intelligent, with time I have grown to realise formal education is only one piece of the puzzle. I went to a pretty good school for my undergrad, you wouldn't believe some of the stuff I heard coming out of people's mouths, in fact I had much more intelligent conversations with Uber drivers, who weren't necessarily educated but they had very interesting life experiences and backgrounds that made it fun to engage in intellectual conversations with them. It really depends, I mean formal education is important for sure, but its not everything that goes into determining intelligence and credibility. 

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5 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

I used to think of people who were educated with all sorts of degrees as intelligent, with time I have grown to realise formal education is only one piece of the puzzle. I went to a pretty good school for my undergrad, you wouldn't believe some of the stuff I heard coming out of people's mouths, in fact I had much more intelligent conversations with Uber drivers, who weren't necessarily educated but they had very interesting life experiences and backgrounds that made it fun to engage in intellectual conversations with them. It really depends, I mean formal education is important for sure, but its not everything that goes into determining intelligence and credibility. 

 
 
 
 
 

Some of the stupidest things I have ever heard in my life was at the University campus and this wasn't necessarily by the bad students.

Edited by ShiaBwoy

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9 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

The problem is why does there even have to be an alternative perspective?

 

Religion is inherently subjective. Your question is like asking why some people like chocolate icecream while others like vanilla.

9 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

 

Surely the ignorant people will just continue to be ignorant and hold their biases? Many intelligent people are well aware of distinctions across the board. So the creation of such shows only serves to appeal to the ignorant people who already have a bias, which will be very difficult to change, so what good will that even do? Also, I find it a bit problematic that a muslim would have a show on what muslims are like? None of us here are perfect muslims, we try but we're nowhere near what a perfect muslim is, only the prophet, some of his family and his closest companions were perfect, so given that, I don't think its fair to make a show about how people are and then link that to Islam or being a Muslim. It is how Reza Aslan is and maybe a few other people, they may identify as muslim but not everything they do will be in accordance with Islamic teachings, so I think its rather misleading to have such a show as well. 

Well, sorry. That's just the way the world is. Not everyone likes trump either, yet here we are with him representing out whole country. 

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There are also benefits in competitive views, thoughts and interpretations.  

Similar to evolution by natural selection, competition can lead to the defeat of falsehood or less true ideas with simultaneous growth and development of truth. 

This could be the reason pagans are no longer present as they were in the past.

though the subjective nature of beliefs and religion weaken people's ability to reach agreement or conclusions. So you have long periods of sectarian disagreement .

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