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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Mansur Bakhtiari

Shrines and Graves

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17 minutes ago, Al-Qibli said:

I actaully see no diffirences between loving the Imams in just my room, when I'm alone in the park or lay in my bed.

Visiting their graves out of respect is still understandable but to talk to them as in prayer sounds a little shirky to me. No offense.

Isn't Allah As-Samiul Alim?

Just provide us with reference so we could be like you. 

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47 minutes ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

Just provide us with reference so we could be like you. 

I must prove that there is no grave worship in Quran or what exactly?

If you claim that grave worship belongs to Islam then you must show me where that is said.

Not the other way around.

Edited by Al-Qibli

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1 hour ago, Al-Qibli said:

Strange logic.

The Quran tells us what to do. And visiting graves is not there.

Actually visiting a grave is so general in human history and Abrahamic religions, so in Islam Allah (swt) guides us to what not to do in graves and to whom we should not visit, this verse is talking about to not visit the hypocrites:

“And never offer prayer for anyone of them who dies and do not stand by his grave, surely they disbelieve in Allah and His Apostle and they shall die in transgression. (Tauba 19:84)”

If it was prohibited for all of us, then instead to only mention hypocrites ones, it should mentioned all of people.

Quote

grave worship or supplication I will never get used to.

 

What is an grave worship? How do you think people who visit the graves are actually worshiping the dead ones?

Edited by Dhulfikar

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18 minutes ago, Al-Qibli said:

I must prove that there is no grave worship in Quran or what exactly?

If you claim that grave worship belongs to Islam then you must show me where that is said.

Not the other way around.

I never said we should worship graves. Did I?

Edited by Ron_Burgundy

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10 hours ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

I never said we should worship graves. Did I?

Then what exactly is the meaning of visiting a grave besides giving the one buried some respect and do some prayers for, not to?

Edited by Al-Qibli

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10 hours ago, Dhulfikar said:

What is an grave worship? How do you think people who visit the graves are actually worshiping the dead ones?

I actually don't know bro'. You tell me.

 

10 hours ago, Dhulfikar said:

Actually visiting a grave is so general in human history and Abrahamic religions, so in Islam Allah (swt) guides us to what not to do in graves and to whom we should not visit, this verse is talking about to not visit the hypocrites:

“And never offer prayer for anyone of them who dies and do not stand by his grave, surely they disbelieve in Allah and His Apostle and they shall die in transgression. (Tauba 19:84)”

If it was prohibited for all of us, then instead to only mention hypocrites ones, it should mentioned all of people.

Yes doing suppliations for them but doing supplications to them is not what it says. That is one step further.

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Yes doing suppliations for them but doing supplications to them is not what it says. That is one step further.

Brother, clearly everyone who reads your post will understand that you hold beliefs that visiting graves is not allowed.  Specifically when you referred about visiting prophet grave or visiting a grave in general sense. Bit confusing but now I understand what you mean. Its about supplications.  It's about calling them and ask for their help.  No where in Shia Islam actually teach that calling to them is even allowed. Yes people may go too far to call them out of extreme love or ignorance but still it is not the teaching of Aimmah (as) nor what Allah have teached us:

So call not upon any one with Allah. 72:18

Say: Tell me if the chastisement of Allah should overtake you or the hour should come upon you, will you call (on others) besides Allah, if you are truthful? Nay, Him you call upon, so He clears away that for which you pray if He pleases and you forget what you set up (with Him). [6:40-41]

All forms of duas is only ment for Allah (SWT) and to Him we only talk in Duaa. 

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11 hours ago, Al-Qibli said:

Then what exactly is the meaning of visiting a grave besides giving the one buried some respect and do some prayers for, not to?

We make them wasila. Lets say we visit Imam Reza (a.s) shrine we make dua there and them wasila. 

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10 minutes ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

For me, I make dua to God but I visit the shrines for the reasons mentionedd in the hadith.

Well, I maybe don't know too much about the subject. Gimme some material to delve into.

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8 minutes ago, Al-Qibli said:

Well, I maybe don't know too much about the subject. Gimme some material to delve into.

For example, imagine if at these shrines, they let people learn about these scholars. Then it would help people find ways to make themselves better by following their example. For me, when I see a shrine named after someone, like Shaykh Saduq (ra), I want to learn about them, so I increase myself in knowledge, and I have someone to model myself after when I am in need of a solution to a problem. Of course, when I hear of people asking Imam Reza (as) for help in something, I completely reject that because dua is only for God.

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5 hours ago, Al-Qibli said:

I'm sorry bro' but to do supplications to someone else than Allah is the Danger Zone to me.

O ye who believe! Do your duty to Allah, seek the means of approach unto Him, and strive with might and main in his cause: that ye may prosper. [5:35]

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5 hours ago, Al-Qibli said:

I'm sorry bro' but to do supplications to someone else than Allah is the Danger Zone to me.

 

 

5_35.gif
5_35.jpg
'O believers! Fear Allah and seek the means of approach to Him and strive in His way haply you may getprosperity.

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1 hour ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

 

 

5_35.gif
5_35.jpg
'O believers! Fear Allah and seek the means of approach to Him and strive in His way haply you may getprosperity.

But why are these means in Twelver Shi'ism always persons making us dependent on them and not a way of life or certain conditions or deeds?

Isn't Islam a religion where there is total responsibility over self and everything between God and man is removed?

Edited by Al-Qibli

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14 hours ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

This justifies visiting shrines, but not making dua to creatures other than God.

I don't make dua to them i make them wasila and ask our Imams to pray for me. I just make them my reference.

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