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jmo

Umar died an unbeliever

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On 12/23/2016 at 3:46 PM, DigitalUmmah said:

the olden day version was fermented date juice. it was the alcohol of choice during the days of jahaliyyah. omar had a lifelong addiction to it, even asking for it on his deathbed. sunnis argue that there is an unfermented version, and a fermented version, but in their same books the Holy Prophet (S) called it "the devils drink" so by my understanding, its haram in both forms. 

Was it like non alcoholic malt beverage that is sold in Iran ?

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@DigitalUmmah

You are one of the most dumbest person here on SC, who make a fool out of himself most of the times and misguide others with his non-sensible logic and unacedemic posts.

Here is everything about NABIDH from authentic ahlul sunnah books. https://www.sunnah.com/search/?q=nabidh

Read carefully before making any judgements (of takfir, hypocrisy etc) on others. Do justice even if you hate them the most,  Surah Maida ayah 8

Here are few narrations regarding NABIDH.

Abu Qatada, on the authority of his father, reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) having said this: Do not prepare Nabidh by mixing nearly ripe dates and fresh dates together, and do not prepare Nabidh by mixing grapes and dates together, but prepare Nabidh from each (one of them) separately. Sahih Muslim 1988 a

Ibn Umar reported that he was forbidden to prepare Nabidh by mixing unripe dates and fresh dates, and dates with grapes. Sahih Muslim 1991 a

'Uqba b. Huraith said:

I heard Ibn 'Umar saying: The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) forbade (the preparation of Nabidh) in a green pitcher (besmeared with pitch), in varnished jar, and in gourd, and he said: Prepare Nabidh in small waterskins. Sahih Muslim 1997 l

Thumama b. Hazn Al-Qushairi reported:

I met 'A'isha and asked her (about the utensils in which) Nabidh (may be prepared). She narrated to me that a group of 'Abd al-Qais came to Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) and asked: Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) about Nabidh. He (the Holy Prophet) forbade them to prepare Nabidh in varnished jar, hollow stumps and gourd and green pitcher. Sahih Muslim 1995 d

'A'isha reported:

We prepared Nabidh for Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) in a waterskin, the upper part of which was tied and it (the waterskin) had a hole (in its lower part). We prepared the Nabidh in the morning and he drank it in the evening and we prepared the Nabidh in the night, and he would drink it in the morning. Sahih Muslim 2005 b
 
It was narrated that Bassam said:
"I asked Abu Ja'far about Nabidh and he said: " 'Ali bin Husain, may Allah be pleased with him, would have Nabidh made for him at night, and he would drink it in the morning, and he would have Nabidh made in the morning and he would drink it at night.'" Sunan an-Nasa'i 5741
 
May Allah guide us all to the true teachings of His beloved Prophet Muhammad S.A.W.W. Ameen

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On 12/22/2016 at 8:48 AM, jmo said:

Umar bin Khattab, the 2nd Khalif died as an unbeliever according to Quran 3:91 and his own testimony recorded in Sahih Bukhari.

The Quran is a miraculous book indeed.  Look how the unbeliever uttered the same words that Allah (swt) reserved for the unbelievers.

Furthermore, if Umar was promised paradise as Sunnis claim, then why was Umar terrified of Allah's punishment and why didn't Ibn Abbas remind him that he was promised paradise?

either Umar didn't believe or trust in the Messenger (saws) or the hadith of the 10 promised paradise is a fabrication.

In any case, here is the evidence that proves Umar died an unbeliever.

Quran: https://quran.com/3:91

Hadith: http://bit.ly/2h4b8s1

C0S1n9OXEAEOi6v.jpg:large

Assalam O Alaikum.

I think, quoting half narrations or quoting out of context and making such big conclusions of takfir etc on someone is a sign of hypocrisy. If you want to accept any narration then accept it fully without neglecting any thing from it else leave it completely.

Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama:

When `Umar was stabbed, he showed signs of agony. Ibn `Abbas, as if intending to encourage `Umar, said to him, "O Chief of the believers! Never mind what has happened to you, for you have been in the company of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and you kept good relations with him and you parted with him while he was pleased with you. Then you were in the company of Abu Bakr and kept good relations with him and you parted with him (i.e. he died) while he was pleased with you. Then you were in the company of the Muslims, and you kept good relations with them, and if you leave them, you will leave them while they are pleased with you." `Umar said, (to Ibn "Abbas), "As for what you have said about the company of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and his being pleased with me, it is a favor, Allah did to me; and as for what you have said about the company of Abu Bakr and his being pleased with me, it is a favor Allah did to me; and concerning my impatience which you see, is because of you and your companions. By Allah! If (at all) I had gold equal to the earth, I would have ransomed myself with it from the Punishment of Allah before I meet Him." Sahih al-Bukhari 3692

Umar r.a wa a.s utterred those words out of fear of Allah. The same fear which every true believer including ahlebait had and will remain always even if they know they are the most pious of all, the chosen one etc.

http://www.duas.org/sajjadiya/s16.htm

http://www.duas.org/sajjadiya/s09.htm

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3 hours ago, Abraram said:

I don't know about others but It freshens the faith of mine. Its works like a c charger for my weaker concepts, secondly, it increased my knowledge about Quran. Why do you go to majalis and cry on Hussain every year, doesn't crying on Hussain freshens your faith? I really couldn't find your comment useful. Sorry.

Personally, I find no value in beating a dead horse, especially one that is long buried. These discussions give the appearance "the case isn't closed", and we have to keep digging, even at the bottom of the barrel, for further confirmation. It makes us look petty, desperate, and insecure. For strategic reasons, it misses every mark. 

Like I said, the pleasure is in the ego, although we may be deceived into believing this is authentic spiritual building. It's not. 

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4 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Umar r.a wa a.s utterred those words out of fear of Allah. The same fear which every true believer including ahlebait had and will remain always even if they know they are the most pious of all, the chosen one etc.

The similarities between Umar's dying words and what Allah told us what the unbelievers will say as they die in Quran 3:91 are like a mirror copies of one another. If you accept Quran 3:91 as true, then Umar's testimony is the materialization of this Ayah.

Given this is a Quranic Ayah, one would have to come with another Quranic ayah to support an alternative explanation for what Umar said before he perished.

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On 12/24/2016 at 4:56 PM, magma said:

This discussion is just self serving diatribe to make people feel good about themselves. 

What difference does any of this make in your life? You already don't accept him as a valid representative of Islam anyway for a variety of valid reasons, why the need to weaken the case by heaping on speculative nonsense, when it serves no purpose whatsoever, other than ego peddling?

Because they want to show Sunnis their Umar is unbeliever, when the hadith for Sunnis is nothing but an merit of Umar.

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7 hours ago, magma said:

Personally, I find no value in beating a dead horse, especially one that is long buried. These discussions give the appearance "the case isn't closed", and we have to keep digging, even at the bottom of the barrel, for further confirmation. It makes us look petty, desperate, and insecure. For strategic reasons, it misses every mark. 

Like I said, the pleasure is in the ego, although we may be deceived into believing this is authentic spiritual building. It's not. 

 

Salam

I think most of the bigger Surahs revolve around Ali and the Imams. I like to keep digging because then the Quran comes together like that.

I think the deeper we see Ali and Imams, then comes the next step, what does Quran guide and teach regarding adhering to their Wilayah during their being here with us and in their absence (like right now).

I think we have to understand that Quran could of just had a Surah that said "Ali and 11 Imams from his offspring are chosen, follow them", but taught in a way we have to understand the philosophy of guidance of the leaders appointed by God while negating the Jibt and Taghut and the false authority that always tries to claim Caliphate and Imamate "Or do they have a share in the authority?..."

I am truly humbled how Allah [swt] proves the philosophy of his religion and even has this Umma as a proof of why we need guidance and Imams from him implicitly taught in Quran.

I love delving deep, because the more deeper I go, the more illuminated the book becomes, and the more it comes together, and I find in teaching and sharing the notes I make on Quran, helps me understand better as well.

However, that is just to verify certainty upon certainty. While as you said looking for ambiguous or non-established hadiths to prove Shiism does make us look weak.

 

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2 hours ago, LinkZelda said:

Salam

I love delving deep, because the more deeper I go, the more illuminated the book becomes, and the more it comes together, and I find in teaching and sharing the notes I make on Quran, helps me understand better as well.

However, that is just to verify certainty upon certainty. 

 

Salam,

Exactly, the Quran has many meanings both apparent and hidden.  Many of those hidden meanings behind the verses are related to Ahl Albayt (as) and this ayah is one example.  I now have a whole new appreciation for this Quranic Ayah 3:91 and it's connection to to the Ahl Albayt (as) and their enemies. 

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Just a tip. If you want to bring forward evidences against Sunni Islam and its revered figures, do so with justice. Don't bring forward half-truths, half-lies and incomplete ahadith taken out of context. This is the behaviour of islamophobes who use the exact same strategy.

It makes your own standpoint less credible and strengthens the standpoint of the opponent.

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