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celestial

Ayatullah Khamanei as the leader of Muslims?

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@notme The best and satisfactory answer if you want . Then click this link : http://www.leader.ir/en/istifta

Make entries and select " Miscellaneous Issues " and ask you question. 

Ayatollah Khamenei (da) already said " I am not diplomat but revolutionist "  , and one more thing like to add for your info. Any scholar of Islam is property of Islam first. So asking him question is always welcome.

Simple.

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@notme 

I'm not "stressed out" or "frustrated" with anything. I'm just calling it out like I see it. Don't put words in my mouth. 

"Discussion" for its own sake is pointless, if little is learned or gained from it. For all long standing active members, you would think something would be learned over the years beyond the ABCs. I outlined a theory why this is the case.

If getting an answer to a question is really the goal of all this, there are many means to do so if the interest was there. It's all archived. Helpful posts are ignored and short soundbite one liners carry the discussion. That's the way it's always been. 

Clearly, it's all chattering for the sake of chattering. Nothing wrong with that, it's your human right, this is a discussion forum, etc, etc, therefore, by extension, I'll use my same "right of discussion" to call it out for what it is, which is that this is an empty, phony, vacuous discussion that's a poor man's equivalent to air hockey. 

Edited by magma

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@alirex

Thanks for your suggestion.

I'm still reading, but I found this which seems to indicate to me that the authority of Sayyid Khameini is only over Iran by law and over his followers by choice. Those who follow other marjae are obligated to follow their own marja, unless they are Iranian and it relates to public or legal affairs. Am I reading this right? If I am, I don't understand this claim of him being The Leader of all the world's Muslims. A leader, certainly, but it appears he doesn't claim to be the only.

Q 52: When the fatwā of the leader of Muslims on social, political, and cultural issues disagrees with that of another marji‘, what is the religious obligation of Muslims? And is there a dividing line between fatwās issued by marji‘ and those issued by the jurist leader? For example, if the opinion of a marji‘ concerning music differs with that of the jurist leader, which one is valid and obligatory to follow? And, in general, what are the wilā’ī edicts regarding which opinion of the jurist leader has priority over that of a marji‘? 
A: The edicts of the jurist leader must be followed with respect to the issues relating to the administration of the Islamic country and general affairs of Muslims. While, every mukallaf is obliged to follow his own marji‘ in absolutely personal issues. 

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@notme I said asked question to Istifta they will reply. Tell them and send the Pure Stream Media image where they mentioned Leader of Muslim Ummah. And ask Is Ayatollah Khamenei believes he is leader of Muslim Ummaha or not ?

Why i am suggesting you, have one valid reason from History.

When Prophet (saw) son's got die and same time Solar Eclipse happen. Ansar started Gossping that is due to Prophet's respect. When Prophet (saw) got this information he immediately came and gave khutba and clearify the misconception. And said Solar eclipse is natural and no connection with my son.

With this incident , you have a valid reason to judge your own scholars, If he is aware that people are calling him " Leader of Muslim Ummah " is he also agreed with that statement or not. Simple.

Keeping silence on such issue if he is aware then its clear he accepted as Leader, else not.

Is that not simple ? At least after his reply you will never get any single chance to suspect him.

Edited by alirex

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@alirex I like to know the published information that I can find first before I ask directly. I'll get there and I'll share the response, insha'Allah. Or if someone else reading here has asked, they can share their answer. Surely someone must have already asked. This discussion has been going on for at least 10 years that I know of, maybe much longer.

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@notme that means you are not interested in answer. Otherwise when Marja himself is available on net. And you have doubt then best is ask himself.

Pure Stream Media started writing this text recently after Hasan Nasrallah recent speaches. Also syrian Sunni scholars are calling Imam Khamenei instead of Ayatollah Khamenei , you can get video from Unity thread where Scholar was mentioning Imam Khomaini and Imam Khamenei.

I hope you will not feel shy and ask question to Marja directly. :grin:

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1 minute ago, alirex said:

@notme that means you are not interested in answer. Otherwise when Marja himself is available on net. And you have doubt then best is ask himself.

I hope you will not feel shy and ask question to Marja directly. :grin:

I do want the answer, but I actually (believe it or not) am a shy person. That's why I want to read published rulings first, fear of sounding like an ignorant fool. You should see the build up I have to do before I can make phone calls!

I'll get there, brother. It's been, what, a few hours? And then I'll share here, insha'Allah. 

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4 minutes ago, alirex said:

Also syrian Sunni scholars are calling Imam Khamenei instead of Ayatollah Khamenei ,

If this is the case then even non-muslims in the newspaper and articles call him as 'Imam Khamenei'. Let's change the title a little 'leader of the humanity'. How's that?

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4 minutes ago, Lover of Ahlulbait (ams) said:

If this is the case then even non-muslims in the newspaper and articles call him as 'Imam Khamenei'. Let's change the title a little 'leader of the humanity'. How's that?

Solution i gave already to sister @notme She will inform everyone what will be the reply from Ayatollah Khamenei (da) , till then Sabr.

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43 minutes ago, alirex said:

Solution i gave already to sister @notme She will inform everyone what will be the reply from Ayatollah Khamenei (da) , till then Sabr.

Right. And if someone else has already asked, please share. One can't realistically expect a very quick response.

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26 minutes ago, notme said:

Right. And if someone else has already asked, please share. One can't realistically expect a very quick response.

No worries , as you said it in your own post . We can wait for the reply then.

1 hour ago, notme said:

This discussion has been going on for at least 10 years that I know of, maybe much longer.

 

Edited by alirex

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6 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Do you believe sayed khamenei is Imam of all the worlds muslims? 

When you have answer by your own intelligence why asking me ? I am usooli not akhbari. So my mantiq you can't digest.

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2 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

I asked you a rather straightforward question - please reply. 

Straight forward answer is : Not interested in wasting my time. All the answers you can find in old comments. Even if you agree or disagree don't quote me. I am not interested in discussion with you.

Have a Good day.

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2 minutes ago, alirex said:

Straight forward answer is : Not interested in wasting my time. All the answers you can find in old comments. Even if you agree or disagree don't quote me. I am not interested in discussion with you.

Have a Good day.

funny how WFers are suddenly acting all shifty isnt it. 

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9 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

funny how WFers are suddenly acting all shifty isnt it. 

We have gulf-states against us, zionist-western corrupt forces against us, salafi-takfiri's against us, midguided masses, please by Allah, stop wedging further divides by constantly bringing in the 'WFers' and labels brother, i ask this sincerely, please stop. 

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1 minute ago, uponthesunnah said:

We have gulf-states against us, zionist-western corrupt forces against us, salafi-takfiri's against us, midguided masses, please by Allah, stop wedging further divides by constantly bringing in the 'WFers' and labels brother, i ask this sincerely, please stop. 

Do you see sayed khamenei as leader of all the worlds muslims?

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24 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Do you see sayed khamenei as leader of all the worlds muslims?

Stop harassing people. 

The answer was already given. Stop obfuscating this and pretending it wasn't given. There is a difference between power and authority, and formal and informal, if you'd bother to read others posts. Nobody is forcing anything upon you. 

Today, on Wed Dec 14 (not in the future, but today) tell us who your leader is, and who you think all Muslims should trust as an authority. Bring someone forward, and discuss it on those terms. If you have nobody in mind, how is that a stronger position than those who have somebody? That's called cowardice and disingenuous as far as I'm concerned. 

What I said earlier that was glossed over in favor of the echo chamber: 

"Leader" means an authority who has received legitimacy to represent the interpretation and expression of certain views and beliefs. Leaders are everywhere, in all capacities. That's called nature. 

People are so caught up in peculiar formalities, semantics, and particularities here, that it blinds their vision to context and substance. People wrapped up in the idolatry of words rather than reflecting on their essence and applicability. 

 

 

Edited by magma

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50 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Do you see sayed khamenei as leader of all the worlds muslims?

He doesn't have authority or power over all the worlds muslims, nor does he seek authority or power over them, nor do people who respect him or follow him or revere him believe this. He has expressively stated each nation to govern by people of their own choosing.

'Leader of the Muslim Ummah' is a title that is perhaps more honorific, in that he represents the only current decent and legitimate leading voice of Islam, as a leading supreme authority.That's my interpretation.

Anyone who disagree's he is a legitimate leader in the sense he should not have the powers he has, or the authority over Iran he does, or in WF are by his own words, absolutely entitled to it, so long as they are not enemies i.e actively plotting the destruction.

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9 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

Come on guys... whats the point of having this argument? To each his own.

The point is that IF people are claiming that Sayyid Khameini is the only legitimate leader of the Ummah, it's rather disrespectful to other marjae unless they also support this claim, in which case we can't choose anyone else for taqleed so there are no other marjae. 

As I read it, he never made that claim himself, but perhaps someone can show me where he did. I asked, but nobody answered. 

I'm really just trying to understand precisely what claim is being made so I know whether I agree or disagree, but instead of answering everyone is evading. Is it so difficult a question? 

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6 minutes ago, Lover of Ahlulbait (ams) said:

If some people here can use less jargon and more logic it will be more helpful.

We are not enemies of any maraja.

Or just answer a simple question.

Sayyid Khameini, may Allah prolong his life, is a marja taqleed and The Religious Leader of Iran. As far as I can tell that is undisputed. Some people appear to claim that he is The Leader of the entire worldwide Muslim Ummah. 

Is this claim being made? 

Who is the originator of this claim?

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6 minutes ago, notme said:

The point is that IF people are claiming that Sayyid Khameini is the only legitimate leader of the Ummah, it's rather disrespectful to other marjae unless they also support this claim, in which case we can't choose anyone else for taqleed so there are no other marjae. 

Hardly any of the the most eminent scholars that have existed in our lives (like Ayatollah Khoei or Sistani) believe that Khamenei is the only legitimate leader because 1: the idea of WF actually has no roots in the hadith of the Prophet and his Ahlulbait. and 2: the only time in our lives that there will be only one legitimate leader is when Imam Mehdi (afs) arrives among us. 

The reason why many of us follow different scholars today is because the Imam is not among us yet in the first place! 

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