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celestial

Ayatullah Khamanei as the leader of Muslims?

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8 minutes ago, Engineer73 said:

who made you the naib of Imam? Do you have any letter of authorization from Imam

IT DOESNT MATTER.

my followers think I am- therefore I am leader of the whole worlds muslims whether they accept me or not, and if you argue with me, you are an agent of the zionists. probably employed by mi5. 

if my followers want to call me "master of the affairs of all the worlds muslims" (wali e amr muslimeen e jehan) then they have every right to do so. and them calling me that, means its true. QED.

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46 minutes ago, Engineer73 said:

And I told you that only the company of Masomeen can bring such a change in a person and given the example of Salman Farsi (r.a). You mentioned Syeda Zainab & Mola Abbas a.s.

Only the Ahlul bait can grant such certificate to anyone. You & me cannot say that so & so are masoom or like masoom.

Ok..........sigh

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On 12/12/2016 at 12:24 PM, DigitalUmmah said:

la la la la laa not listening. I am still your leader k thnx bye. 

IT DOESNT MATTER.

my followers think I am- therefore I am leader of the whole worlds muslims whether they accept me or not, and if you argue with me, you are an agent of the zionists. probably employed by mi5. 

if my followers want to call me "master of the affairs of all the worlds muslims" (wali e amr muslimeen e jehan) then they have every right to do so. and them calling me that, means its true. QED.

So much for you claiming you have changed and matured....for the 18th time.

Edited by ShiaChat Mod
Fixed the huge extra spaces in the quote.

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1 minute ago, repenter said:

So much for you claiming you have changed and matured....for the 18th time.

I'm totally not mocking sayed khamenei at all - I'm mocking his most extreme online fanboys. As far as I can see, sayed khamenei has never himself said that he sees himself as the global leader of all the worlds muslims, or ever called himself the master of their affairs. 

 

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On 12/11/2016 at 2:00 PM, Lover of Ahlulbait (ams) said:

Now where did this come from? Where did I condemn Ayatullah Khamenei. Do you have comprehension problem. Do not haste in replying. Go and read original question and try to understand what I was asking. 

Well according to you he is claiming something to be he is not.

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12 minutes ago, Al-Qibli said:

Well according to you he is claiming something to be he is not.

I asked who gave him the title. Show me where I said 'he is claiming himself to be the leader of Muslim Ummah' or something like that. Online fan boys!

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4 minutes ago, Lover of Ahlulbait (ams) said:

I asked who gave him the title. Show me where I said 'he is claiming himself to be the leader of Muslim Ummah' or something like that. Online fan boys!

And what is wrong being a fan of him?

Which scholars or leaders do you adore?

Obama? Clinton? Modi maybe? Name me a leader who actually did something like Khameini.

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4 minutes ago, Al-Qibli said:

And what is wrong being a fan of him?

Nothing wrong dear, just don't spread misinformation and try to understand what others are saying. If I'm asking anything about him that doesn't mean I hate him. I even take his name with respect better than you. Don't get charged.

6 minutes ago, Al-Qibli said:

Which scholars or leaders do you adore?

Ayatullah Sistani, Shaikh al-Saduq, Allamah Mohammed Baqar Majlisi to name a few.

 

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7 minutes ago, Lover of Ahlulbait (ams) said:

Nothing wrong dear, just don't spread misinformation and try to understand what others are saying. If I'm asking anything about him that doesn't mean I hate him. I even take his name with respect better than you. Don't get charged.

Ayatullah Sistani, Shaikh al-Saduq, Allamah Mohammed Baqar Majlisi to name a few.

 

Well with all respect but I do respect those who actually did something more than those who only have knowledge.

Second of all. I'm sure that I am far more conscious and thankful for the efforts imam Khameini made for the Ummah.

Edited by Al-Qibli

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@kamyar

this is distracting from the argument, its a strawman. 

abu bakr al baghdadi (LA) claims to be leader of the worlds muslims. the arguments that his fanboys use to justify him being leader of the worlds muslims, are the exact same arguments used by WF online fanboys. 

the truth is - and this is a brick wall which you guys simply cannot pass - there is no global authority over all muslims, other than the Ahlulbayt (as). 

in terms of political power, sayed khamenei authority is bound and limited by the Iranian consititution. there is nothing in the iranian constitution that says that the WF is the master of the affairs of all the worlds muslims. this absurd, and frankly laughable, belief is not found anywhere but online by his fanboys. 

so you want to talk about damaging the credibility of shias? talk about this. shia online are basically becoming zaidi-lite (TM) in their excessive adoration of sayed khamenei. 

Edited by magma
Replaced quote with tag

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@DigitalUmmah

Is there a power other than the IRI that is defending Shia muslims in oppresion or persecution, defending Palestine and promoting unity in diversity?

Come with solutions. Not with theoretical abstractions.

Edited by magma
Replaced quote with tag

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4 minutes ago, Al-Qibli said:

Is there a power other than the IRI that is defending Shia muslims in oppresion or persecution, 

what, like the non existent defence aginst shia genocide in pakistan over the last 2 decades, you mean? 

 

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Just now, Al-Qibli said:

are you serious right now?

(1) is this equal to the support given to (sunni/ salafi) palestine?
(2) has it had any success?
(3) is it any sort of force to prevent shia genocide?
(4) is it promoted on a government/ national level as a cause?
(5) does it have any political influence at all?
(6) is there any actual iranian support of it? 

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28 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

are you serious right now?

(1) is this equal to the support given to (sunni/ salafi) palestine?
(2) has it had any success?
(3) is it any sort of force to prevent shia genocide?
(4) is it promoted on a government/ national level as a cause?
(5) does it have any political influence at all?
(6) is there any actual iranian support of it? 

The anwsers are in the article itself.

Excpet for 4) and 5) the anwsers are all yes.

You should be aware of the fact that Iran is not a world power and is opposed and thwarted by the international community/worldpowers. Keeping this in mind, Iran is actually doing most and sacrificing its position compared with other countries.

Edited by Al-Qibli

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2 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

I'm totally not mocking sayed khamenei at all - I'm mocking his most extreme online fanboys. As far as I can see, sayed khamenei has never himself said that he sees himself as the global leader of all the worlds muslims, or ever called himself the master of their affairs. 

 

Sure

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3 hours ago, Engineer73 said:

So everyone is masoom (infallable) in your point of view. Gr8

Shiachat indeed surprising me! 

 

 

Because that's what I said, right? It's not a good characteristic to twist others' words.

 

 

Let's put it this way:

 

Do you believe Imam Ali is masoom? 

 

Do you believe the Holy Prophet is masoom?

 

Now... which one of them is superior?

 

Our belief is that both are masoom but that one (the latter) is superior. How can they both be masoom but one of them being superior to the other? This shows that ismah is not a binary yes/no categorization but rather a gradient. 

 

The ismah of the Holy Prophet is not the same as the ismah of the Imams, which is not the same as the ismah of the arch prophets, which is not the same as the ismah of the other, lesser prophets. 

 

But the lesser type of ismah - that is, not sinning - is attainable to everyone. Please re-read br @repenter's post as he explains it very well.

 

Do you think Allah would create you with the metaphysical obligation to sin... and then punish you for it?

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By Allah, i have travelled in parts of the world [asia] where shia's can not even openly practise, and the only reason shia islam has touched that area is due to Iran, the Dawah work, and the islamic revolution. The same applies for Nigeria. Syria would have now fallen to takfiri extremists, Lebanon taken over, Yemen another puppet regime with no voice or support, and Iraq greatly weakened had it not been for Iran.

I must warn the rest of the brothers here, there is a growing movement in the indo-pak region, transferring to indian and pakistani communities here [not everyone, let me add, not even most of them either, but just a strong enough minority element] who:

1. Believe Ay.Khamanei is unqualified, a batri, and a muqassir, and they dislike him for his banning on self-mutilation rituals.

Even some of our Iraqi brothers are being brainwashed into thinking Iran wants to take over Iraq!  

This is all a plot coined to divide an already divided and minority group. Open your eyes.

Edited by uponthesunnah

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Can we complain about shia genocide if we :

1. Abuse and insult mock and curse revered symbols of other schools.

2. Perform and encourage self-mutilation rituals.

3. Refer to non-shia's as 'bakri's' and openly abuse and insult them.

 

Ofcourse, doing the above is no justification for anything, but whoever does the above is a massive part of the problem here.

Edited by uponthesunnah

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3 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

I'm totally not mocking sayed khamenei at all - I'm mocking his most extreme online fanboys. As far as I can see, sayed khamenei has never himself said that he sees himself as the global leader of all the worlds muslims, or ever called himself the master of their affairs. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Lover of Ahlulbait (ams) said:

I asked who gave him the title. Show me where I said 'he is claiming himself to be the leader of Muslim Ummah' or something like that. Online fan boys!

This all stems down to the anti tatbir fatwa and the naive well meaning shias being used as fodder. 

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The real leader of the muslims is Imam Mehdi (afs). From what I have seen in the hadith of the Prophet and Ahlulbait (peace be upon them all), there is nothing that says anything about an idea known as 'wilayatul faqih' that should be established in the occultation, because this is only for the infallibles. People today should just simply follow a scholar who is most clearly well learned, and has no doubt in their status as a marja, like Ayatollah Sistani, the marja of the huge majority of Muslims worldwide. There is no point tiring yourself out in wondering whether someone like Khamenei is qualified or not. Just simply follow someone who is evidently a qualified scholar, and makes your life easy! 

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At first the title didn't make sense because there are people in Ummah who don't consider him as their leader. When it was explained that by this logic we can't say that Imam Ali is the Imam of all people either, now the title is wrong, because it's not embedded in the Constitution or it can just be applied to Ahlulbayt etc.

I don’t understand what is theoretically and Islamically wrong with “the whole Ummah being under one righteous flag and one righteous leader", whether or not the concept is applicable at the moment.

I know arguing with some people is harder than making a hole in a thick concrete slab by nail!

Edited by kamyar

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@E.L King and @Al-Qibli This is the second time I am asking you to post Seyed Qutb posts in another topic, not here in this topic about Ayatullah Khamenei. 

[Sayed Qutb] is Off-Topic here. Post about Sayed Qutb in another topic:

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1 hour ago, notme said:

Question: has Sayyid Khameini declared himself The Leader or a leader, or have other people declared him The Leader? What have other marjae said on the matter? 

The answers to these will resolve the matter. 

sayed khamanei occupies the position of the WF. this is a political/ religious office created and laid out within the Iranian constitution. the WF authority (like any government official) is described and limited according to the constitution. this is the basis of his authority and leadership as WF. 

for those who see him as their marja, the laws of taqleed apply to his leadership over them. 

he is not "the leader of the worlds muslims". this is idiocy. and offensive to everyone. and nothing at all to do with the WF position which was basically a political framework to run iran post revolution. 

ask the herpyderp WFers to show us anything from the WF official office where he is described as the global leader. 

all this argument "oh well Imam Ali (as) was global leader even if people didnt accept him" is nothing more than qiyas. the situations are completely different. for a start Imam Ali (as) was divinely appointed. 

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30 minutes ago, notme said:

@DigitalUmmah thanks, but I was hoping someone who believes Sayyid Khameini to be The Leader of the Ummah would provide a detailed answer. 

 

I did that before and people here just wants to put illogical statement if ask a question about Ayatullah Khamenei and then behaves like we hate him. 

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Just now, Lover of Ahlulbait (ams) said:

I did that before and people here just wants to put illogical statement if ask a question about Ayatullah Khamenei and then behaves like we hate him. 

I do not hate him, I respect him as a religious authority, and I've never at any time given anyone reason to think otherwise. I just asked a very simple and straightforward question. Let's give people time to answer. 

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This has all been explained multiple times in multiple threads over multiple years, why do some of you act like you're all hearing about it for the first time and have never been given clear answers, when some of you have been here for years

Its not just this issue, but many others as well. And we should all be ashamed of ourselves. 

My theory is that as a chronic habit, people only carefully read from members they agree with and like, and gloss over who they don't agree with, especially the longer and more detailed posts that just get buried in the fast paced muck. They spend little time reading or reflecting on the entirety of the posts, and at most cherry pick one sentence to attack they find funny or strange. In other words, a self-made echo chamber. 

If you can't properly articulate or summarize another's perspective or point of view after all this time, and that person doesn't feel like you described it accurately, and have nothing but a dumbstruck look on your face asking questions at square one, then you have failed as a discussor. You didn't read, you didn't care. It's a waste of everyone's time, and an insult to what people (many Shias) hold dear. At least have some humility, use the search function, and read what others have put their time into typing, and begin the discussion to at least a Step 2 stage. 

 

Edited by magma

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@magma this is a discussion forum not Wikipedia. Why get stressed out over people asking questions? Questions cause discussions. 

I'd like to see a succinct answer to my question. Did Sayyid Khameini name himself The Leader of the Ummah? Or did someone else? Or is he not The Leader, but a leader? What do other marjae say on his leadership or Leadership? And can we see the words if they were written or videoed? I don't understand Farsi, but we've got lots of members here who are very good at translation. 

I don't read every single topic here, nobody does, it would be too much and all of us have other responsibilities. I read this thread and didn't see the answer. So if my question has been answered before in another topic, instead of getting frustrated just link the previous post. It's all part of discussion. 

I know some of you young folks haven't experienced discussion before, but it used to be way cooler than Facebook memes or Wikipedia articles. :verryhappy:

Edited by notme

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