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In the Name of God بسم الله

A Shia cleric is spreading the belief of tafviz !?

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Salamun Alaikum va Rahmatullah

I would like to share a video that in this video it seems a Shia mullah is teaching and declaring the belief of tafviz, tafviz is considered shirk and kufr in the view of Ahlul Bait (AS). Through out history such groups have been always cursed and rejected by Ahlul Bait (AS).

من زعم ان اللَّه عزوجل فوّض امر الخلق والرزق الى حججه فقد قال بالتفويض والقائل بالتفويض مشرك».
عيون الاخبار الرضا، ص 124

Ali ibn Musa al-Riza (the eight imam of twelvers) said : Whoever believes that Allah (Azza wa Jalla) has submitted (given the authority of) the affairs of creation and rizgh to his hujjats (prophets or imams) he has believed in tafviz and whoever believes in tafviz he is a mushrik (polytheist).

I want to know whether this video is fake or anybody knows this mullah. I want to know whether I am misunderstanding this man or not.

It seems he is saying that nowadays the affairs of everything is submitted to Imam Mahdi (AS) excluding Allah. While the true belief of Shia is that Mahdi (AS) is only the mediate between earth and sky. And he is the servant of Allah and he does everything by the permission of Allah. There is a big difference.    

Please watch the all video and pay attention to what he says carefully.

Thank You in Advance

Edited by maes
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15 minutes ago, maes said:

Salamun Alaikum va Rahmatullah

I would like to share a video that in this video it seems a Shia mullah is teaching and declaring the belief of tafviz, tafviz is considered shirk and kufr in the view of Ahlul Bait (AS). Through out history such groups have been always cursed and rejected by Ahlul Bait (AS).

من زعم ان اللَّه عزوجل فوّض امر الخلق والرزق الى حججه فقد قال بالتفويض والقائل بالتفويض مشرك».
عيون الاخبار الرضا، ص 124

Ali ibn Musa al-Riza (the eight imam of twelvers) said : Whoever believes that Allah (Azza wa Jalla) has submitted (given the authority of) the affairs of creation and rizgh to his hujjats (prophets or imams) he has believed in tafviz and whoever believes in tafviz he is a mushrik (polytheist).

I want to know whether this video is fake or anybody knows this mullah. I want to know whether I am misunderstanding this man or not.

It seems he is saying that nowadays the affairs of everything is submitted to Imam Mahdi (AS) excluding Allah. While the true belief of Shia is that Mahdi (AS) is only the mediate between earth and sky. And he is the servant of Allah and he does everything by the permission of Allah. There is a big difference.    

Please watch the all video and pay attention to what he says carefully.

Thank You in Advance

You know they can edit the videos and mistranslate their lectures, right?? I don't waste my time on these anti Majoos videos, they are all anti Islam and anti Muslim and lie and hide the truth.

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1 minute ago, Endtimes said:

You know they can edit the videos and mistranslate their lectures, right?? I don't waste my time on these anti Majoos videos, they are all anti Islam and anti Muslim and lie and hide the truth.

The unedited clip has been online for a little while,  it wasn't distorted this person did say that.

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1 minute ago, Endtimes said:

Thanks brother, I just watched it and he is committing shirk! I personally reject this, where is Ayatulla Sistani on this?

You can only criticise someone who appears to be doing taqsir, the ghulat are too noble to be criticised.

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Just now, Endtimes said:

Pardon my ignorance my brother, but whats taqsir and ghulat?

Taqsir is lowering the status of the imams, ghulu is exaggerating it.

On a side note though,  sayed Sistani is silent on most issues,  there is no reason for him to speak out about this, I doubt that he checks out youtube.

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1 minute ago, Endtimes said:

Thank you brother for the explanation, May Allah swt reward you and Bless you In Sha Allah. But this lecture was given in Iraq, no? I am sure someone heard this and let Ayatullah Sistani know about .... taking a wild guess.

I don't know, I would imagine that this was in Karbala  (?) This kind of talk seems to be quite normal there.

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6 minutes ago, Ali_Hussain said:

I don't know, I would imagine that this was in Karbala  (?) This kind of talk seems to be quite normal there.

I have heard an Hadith that Imam Ali a.s says: Some of my Shias will love me so much that they  will commit shirk and praise me above Allah (astaghfurillah). Its something like but not sure....

Edited by Endtimes
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Yeh from what I gather the Imam al Mahdi will be in communication with Allah and carrying out his will, however Allah would have chosen an al Mahdi that he wont have to spoon feed if you know what I mean.  He will choose someone he trusts to do the right thing as a leader and live up to everyones expectations of his ruler ship. 

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1 hour ago, alirex said:

Too much Majoosing. Shia will make his channel income. He enjoyed that means.

If Shia themselves are promoting his videos and increasing his views. What else enemy want ?

 

When we remain silent on the corruptions, enemies pretend the corruption of an absolute minority of Shias is the true beliefs of millions of Shias.

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1 minute ago, maes said:

When we remain silent on the corruptions, enemies pretend the corruption of an absolute minority of Shias is the true beliefs of millions of Shias.

Open your own video channel for proper reply. Simple.

I am also preparing my channel for IRC ( Islamic Research Center ) replies in views of Maktab-e-Ahle Bait (as)

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3 hours ago, E.L King said:

Many Shaykhs have spoken out against him. What is mentioned in the video ain't even the worst thing he has said.

Would you elaborate more, who is he and what are his beliefs and who are supporting such clerics. I thought the video was fake but it seems you know that it is not. I was shocked. However I had been shocked before too. I had seen similar to such things too. Is he really one the Ghulat ! this means he is out of Islam !!

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12 hours ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

Did we not discuss this before?

That filthy youtube channel has 148 videos. I'm sure that ShiaChat members have seen many of them, and discussed them, too. When people keep clicking on their videos, they get more views and more proud of their view count. 

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1 hour ago, hameedeh said:

That filthy youtube channel has 148 videos. I'm sure that ShiaChat members have seen many of them, and discussed them, too. When people keep clicking on their videos, they get more views and more proud of their view count. 

So what is your suggestion, madam.

I think some one or some groups should make a channel to answer them.

Or may be there is such channels that I do not know.

For example about the dangerous belief of tafviz, has anyone made any clip or  something in English. 

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2 hours ago, maes said:

I think some one or some groups should make a channel to answer them.

Brother, this is a good idea. I support this concept to create a youtube channel to popularize Shia Islam and refute anti-Shia videos.

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45 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

When many Shias argue that as long as you don't say the Imams are equal to Allah or independent of Him, then it's not shirk, I don't really know on what basis they can condemn tafwid anyway. The guy in the video didn't say Imam Mahdi (a) was independent of Allah either. He just said that He has delegated things to the Imam.

The OP mention tafviz so I was not understanding that the issue was tafwid. Thank you for making that clear, Haydar.   

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9 hours ago, Haydar Husayn said:

The guy in the video didn't say Imam Mahdi (a) was independent of Allah either. He just said that He has delegated things to the Imam.

If this is not tafviz then what is tafviz (tafwid) !?

Allah delegated things, even decisions to imam and then he remained idle somewhere !

Maybe he has not used the word independent explicitly but what he says is showing this.

I understand that he may want to say Mahdi is the meditate between earth and sky but he is in fact saying irrelevant things and he is exaggerating badly.

In any case such clerics should get a good lesson from marajeh, one should not be allowed to play with the beliefs of people so easily. I can not rely even on one word of such clerics.

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11 minutes ago, maes said:

If this is not tafviz then what is tafviz (tafwid) !?

Allah delegated things, even decisions to imam and then he remained idle somewhere !

Maybe he has not used the word independent explicitly but what he says is showing this.

I understand that he may want to say Mahdi is the meditate between earth and sky but he is in fact saying irrelevant things and he is exaggerating badly.

In any case such clerics should get a good lesson from marajeh, one should not be allowed to play with the beliefs of people so easily. I can not rely even on one word of such clerics.

I agree with the you. I'm just showing where this kind of definition of shirk can cause problems. I made a tongue-in-cheek thread about this once: 

 

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23 hours ago, Haydar Husayn said:

 

I'm sure you've read this before as it was in the thread you quoted. This information was posted by @Nader Zaveri:

 

Actually the first person to come up with this theory of Wilaayah al-Takwiniyyah was al-Na'ini (b. 1273- d. 1355), in his book al-Makaasib wa al-Bay`.

Here is al-Na'ini explaining two types of wilaayah. (1) Wilaayah al-Takwiniyyah. (2) Wilaayah al-Tashree`iyyah.

(فاعلم) أن لولايتهم مرتبتين (إحديهما) الولاية التكوينية التي هي عبارة عن تسخير المكونات تحت إرادتهم ومشيتهم بحول الله وقوته، كما ورد في زيارة الحجة أرواحنا له الفداء بأنه ما من شئ إلا وأنتم له السبب، و ذلك لكونهم عليهم السلام مظاهر أسمائه وصفاته تعالى فيكون فعلهم فعله وقولهم قوله، وهذه المرتبة من الولاية مختصة بهم وليست قابلة للاعطاء إلى غيرهم لكونها من مقتضيات ذواتهم النورية ونفوسهم المقدسة التي لا يبلغ إلى دون مرتبتها مبلغ

Source:

al-Na'ini, al-Makaasib wa al-Bay`, written by Muhammad Taqi al-Aamuli, (Qum: Mu'assasah al-Nashr al-Islaami), vol. 2, pg. 332

Before al-Na'ini, you won't find a scholar ever use the term wilaayah al-Takwiniyyah, or even hold that belief.

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Discussions like these are so revealing. My thanks to all the participants here and those who discussed this subject in the past. I realize that these innovations among Shia are being powered by so-called Shia clerics at least here in Pakistan. And they are doing a monumental disservice to the religion and the human race. People like Taunsvi to name one of them. They are Ghalis. They are also powerful Ghalis because misguided people follow them and believe in their polytheistic filth. As long as these figure heads exist I am afraid innovation will only keep spreading and nahi anil munker will have little effect overall if any. What can be done?

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