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QUOTE: "Assalam-o-Alaikum Brothers and Sisters !

I posted a topic a long time ago when i needed some help regarding a friend who is Christian but a very good human being ; We used to talk about religion but it never ended well , neither was i so good at convincing nor she knew her religion good . Later we decided never to talk on this subject .

Recently we had a fight when i told her that Jesus was a man and a beloved prophet of Allah , she said she gets angry when i say this because i'm wrong so i said i'm firm on my belief and if you think i'm wrong you must convince me .

Now finally she is ready and she wants to talk to me about it , she is willing to discus faith . so now hopefully i have a chance to show her the truth ,

I need your help as where to begin and what all shall i discuss and how can i convince her to know that she is holding on to wrong belief . All i can do is to give it a try , since its my responsibility being her only and the closest friend , and may God help me show her the way of righteousness .

I expect my brothers and sisters who have knowledge , to guide me to pave a way for her to accept the ultimate truth . I hope i get you kind attention .

Thank you"

Well, if she's a good human being then you don't need to force so much on her religious doctrines as long as it doesn't offend her because respecting other faiths is our moral responsibility. Being a good person is enough.

 

You asked where to start from. You should ask her why she believes Jesus was the son of God. Obviously, she'll say she read it in Bible. Then you'll show him that Bible contains scientifically inaccurate statements and some of its verses contradict some others. You'll have to tell her the fact that the Christianity we know today is actually Pauline Christianity and another Christianity used to exist that was Judeo-Christianity. Why did she chose Pauline Christianity? Then again Bible is not Jesus's own words and some Christians scholars have agreed that when we read the New Testament, we're not listening to Jesus but to the authors of those Gospels. 

 

You are a Pakistani and it's not common for Christians there to indulge in religious issues in depth.

 

In the end, when Christians say that Jesus was son of God, they actually degrade him. Muslims upgrade him by calling him a man of God because a father/mother can't love their children more than God. God loves us more than seventy mothers. The love between a father and his son is nothing in front of the love between a man and God. 

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On 9/5/2013 at 0:36 PM, :Sami II said:

perhaps start with contracting :Mutah as a precautionary measure so when you are discussing truths , you don't have :Shaitan as a 3rd party .

than you can get into Ahmed Deedat debates , my favourite bro on such topics .

 

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac.htm

 

This website is awesome for such discussions.

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Hi OP,

 

I would think that if Muslims really have respect for the faith of others, then it is the negative approach to tell others how wrong their faith is.

The proper approach should be to forget the ‘right and wrong' discussion and concentrate on telling her how 'right' Islam is.

 

The fact that She believes in Jesus, --- then maybe you can share with her by reading portions in the Quran that mention Jesus, and compare the Gospel and the Quran. --- Perhaps you could read some verses together, --- like Surah 3:

45 Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God;

 

And then from Surah 19:

19 He said: "Nay, I am only an apostle from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.

20 She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?"

21 He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us': It is a matter (so) decreed."

 

Then she might remember that the Gospel says the same thing in Luke 1:

30  Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.

31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus.

32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest;

34  Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”

35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God

 --- (Notice that in both 32 and 35, it says, "He will be CALLED the Son of the Highest," and "He will be CALLED the Son of God." ---- GOD COULD NOT HAVE A LITERAL SON, --- but God could CALL Jesus the ‘Son of God,’ --- because He represented God on earth.

 

And again, --- it does say in Surah 19:

33 "So peace is on me (Jesus) the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"

34 Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute., 

35 It is not befitting to (the majesty of) God that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is.

--- It could be written that, "It is not befitting (or out of the ordinary) for Got to beget (by CALLING Jesus His Son). Glory be to Him. WHEN HE DETERMINES A MATTER, HE ONLY SAYS TO IT "BE" AND IT IS.

--- (So He could ‘beget’ a Son, by saying “Be” and He is.)

 

Remember, it said this in verse 21, Thy Lord saith, “That is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us': IT IS A MATTER SO DECREED."

--- So, since it was 'a matter so decreed,' --- God said "Be" and He was.  

Notice verse 34, "Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute., 

--- The Christians believe it as a ‘statement of truth,’ so it is only unbelievers who (vainly) dispute.

 

--- (However, Jesus was born on earth and was, "The Holy Child" and "the Messiah," who was CALLED the Son of God. --- And He said:

36 Verily God is my Lord and your Lord: Him therefore serve ye: this is a Way that is straight.

 

--- Now when the Quran says that Jesus was ‘ordained of God,’ --- and that following Him is a “Way that is straight.”

--- You will have to broaden your discussion with your friend, --- and you may both learn from it.

 

Placid  

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And No where it says, that Jesus is God.

Okay.

(salam)

 

The New Testament considers Jesus as God because the son of God would be a god himself just like the son of a human would be a human and that of a monkey would be a monkey.

:lol: :lol: :lol: good one

 

Are you a Jew?

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Quote

Now finally she is ready and she wants to talk to me about it , she is willing to discus faith . so now hopefully i have a chance to show her the truth ,

I need your help as where to begin and what all shall i discuss and how can i convince her to know that she is holding on to wrong belief . All i can do is to give it a try , since its my 

responsibility being her only and the closest friend , and may God help me show her the way of righteousness .

I expect my brothers and sisters who have knowledge , to guide me to pave a way for her to accept the ultimate truth

Salam and Shalom!

While your intentions are noble--do be careful. For one, men and women have very different ways of viewing everything in life, including religion. So while you may think you're making a logical argument, that might not be what she is looking for. If this is something that could destroy your friendship, perhaps just leave it alone. You wrote: "may God help me show her the way" and you needed help that you may "pave a way for her to accept the ultimate truth". I think that's the wrong approach. Pray and beg God that he himself shows her his ways, his truth, and his love. Be patient, just as God is patient. Each of us as individuals have a special and unique connection with God, each different from everybody else! So for her to "find" truth, it really has to be between her and God.

That being said:

The best way to approach the subject isn't to attack the Bible, use Ahmad Deedat debates, or try to show her "Islam" is the correct religion. If you want to help her return to the true monotheistic ways that Jesus taught, use his own words! Don't worry about the rest (for now). To give you an example:

 One of the teachers of the Torah came and heard them debating. Noticing that Yehoshua had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

 “The most important one,” answered Yehoshua, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.  Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

 “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”

When Yehoshua saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God." And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.  (Mark 12:28-34)

Jesus said the "Shema" and "V'ahavta" was the most important commandment! Observant Jews recite this at least twice a day, and it's one of the prayers that the Siddur (Jewish prayer book) is centered around. So, deifying Jesus goes against his own teachings. 

Hope this is a good start. Just remember, submitting to God is more important than acquiring a religious label.

Salam and Shalom!

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Salam and Shalom!

While your intentions are noble--do be careful. For one, men and women have very different ways of viewing everything in life, including religion. So while you may think you're making a logical argument, that might not be what she is looking for. If this is something that could destroy your friendship, perhaps just leave it alone. You wrote: "may God help me show her the way" and you needed help that you may "pave a way for her to accept the ultimate truth". I think that's the wrong approach. Pray and beg God that he himself shows her his ways, his truth, and his love. Be patient, just as God is patient. Each of us as individuals have a special and unique connection with God, each different from everybody else! So for her to "find" truth, it really has to be between her and God.

That being said:

The best way to approach the subject isn't to attack the Bible, use Ahmad Deedat debates, or try to show her "Islam" is the correct religion. If you want to help her return to the true monotheistic ways that Jesus taught, use his own words! Don't worry about the rest (for now). To give you an example:

 One of the teachers of the Torah came and heard them debating. Noticing that Yehoshua had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

 “The most important one,” answered Yehoshua, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.  Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

 “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”

When Yehoshua saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God." And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.  (Mark 12:28-34)

Jesus said the "Shema" and "V'ahavta" was the most important commandment! Observant Jews recite this at least twice a day, and it's one of the prayers that the Siddur (Jewish prayer book) is centered around. So, deifying Jesus goes against his own teachings. 

Hope this is a good start. Just remember, submitting to God is more important than acquiring a religious label.

Salam and Shalom!

 

Nice to see a Jew here. Jews and Muslims are cousins in faith. I like Jews.

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In His Name, Most High. Salam..

 

These two booklets can be useful as a start for all of us:

 

"A Closer Look at Christianity" by Mohamed Qasem:



 

"Invitation to Islam" by Moustafa al-Qazwini



 

ma salam

Edited by HamzaTR

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Salam and Shalom!

While your intentions are noble--do be careful. For one, men and women have very different ways of viewing everything in life, including religion. So while you may think you're making a logical argument, that might not be what she is looking for. 

 

<snip>

 

 

To give you an example:

 One of the teachers of the Torah came and heard them debating. Noticing that Yehoshua had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

 “The most important one,” answered Yehoshua, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.  Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

 “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”

When Yehoshua saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God." And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.  (Mark 12:28-34)

Jesus said the "Shema" and "V'ahavta" was the most important commandment! Observant Jews recite this at least twice a day, and it's one of the prayers that the Siddur (Jewish prayer book) is centered around. So, deifying Jesus goes against his own teachings. 

Hope this is a good start. Just remember, submitting to God is more important than acquiring a religious label.

Salam and Shalom!

This is a very well constructed post, but I wonder if I could suggest the following.

 

The Early Church, Paul included, were Jews. They would never have contradicted the Shema, and it is important to bear this in mind when reading the New Testament.

 

In Judaism, the concept of God as unknowable comes alongside the means by which He communicates with humanity in our world. These would be such things as the burning Bush, the Pillar of Fire/Cloud and the Torah. Now none of these contradict the view of God as One.

 

It is essential to understand that when Christianity talks about Jesus as divine, it is talking about Him in the same way. He is God in human form, rather than in Burning Bush form. The principle is the same.

 

For Jesus to re-affirm the Shema is not in any way a denial of his divinity. He is repeating the eternal message, not talking about Himself.

 

It is worth remembering Paul's repeat of the Shema in 1 Corinthians 8:

 

"We know that...there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live."

 

He is declaring the Shema, but with an improved understanding of its meaning.

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