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Jawad_Amr

Mutah with christian/jewish

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i was thinking that we are allowed to do a mutah with a christian/jewish girl/men but christian and jewish doesn't have mutah in their belief, so a real christian or jewish will refuse a mutah, right ? What do you think about this ?

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That is correct, the Bible says marriage is one per lifetime, so any Christian who consents to mutah is either hoping for more than the husband promises, or not following her stated beliefs. 

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2 minutes ago, zeesh_ali110 said:

Ahh most of them are not religious at all. So I do not think they will care at all. And I think a woman can not do muttah with a christian/jew men.

Ya but fathers permission is a problem 

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2 minutes ago, zeesh_ali110 said:

Father's permission ? You can read fatwas of marjas you follow regarding that issue.

Ya my marja says I have to ask for the virgin girls fathers permission 

virgin= never married

of Christian or Jew.

Edited by Al Hadi

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Just now, zeesh_ali110 said:

Which marja do you follow ?

Btw, i know the meaning of virgin :)

Sorry some people have a misconception that means never had sex in Islamic c law that doesn't apply having zina doesn't take away virginity.

my marja is SISTANI

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2 minutes ago, Jawad_Amr said:

just christian or jews ?

Muslims too that would be nice Lebanese girls are very beautiful 

or actually not nice cause it's haram without fathers permission  but if things went my way there I might like it. I would like it more in the halal way though of course. 

Btw not saying othe Muslim women aren't beautiful I have just been surrounded by Lebanese so that's what I am mainly exposed to. I'm sure other races have very beautiful women as well.

Edited by Al Hadi

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Just now, Al Hadi said:

Sorry some people have a misconception that means never had sex in Islamic c law that doesn't apply having zina doesn't take away virginity.

my marja is SISTANI

No problem bro you do not have to say sorry. TBH, i did not know that Zina does not take away virginity.

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3 minutes ago, zeesh_ali110 said:

No problem bro you do not have to say sorry. TBH, i did not know that Zina does not take away virginity.

Ya unfortunately If that were the case I would probably go wild maybe especially in this society.

but ya it's very limited lots of people don't know that. Mutah has a lot of rules actually. 

Edited by Al Hadi

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44 minutes ago, zeesh_ali110 said:

No problem bro you do not have to say sorry. TBH, i did not know that Zina does not take away virginity.

@Al Hadi erm.... I thought Zina does take away virginity?.... Of course it does?!... 

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Just now, YAli said:

@Al Hadi erm.... I thought Zina does take away virginity?.... Of course it does?!... 

No, a woman who has never been married is considered a virgin and you still need her father's consent to marry her. This law probably exists to protect the dignity (an in some cultures safety) of the girl. 

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3 minutes ago, notme said:

No, a woman who has never been married is considered a virgin and you still need her father's consent to marry her. This law probably exists to protect the dignity (an in some cultures safety) of the girl. 

Okay thanks

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Question: Some Western governments allow the daughter to be independent of her parents, after she has passed the age of sixteen. If she seeks her parents advice, it is only for seeking their opinion or out of respect for them. Is such a virgin girl allowed to marry, be it permanent or a temporary marriage, without the consent of her father?

Answer: If this means that the father has allowed her to marry whomsoever she wants or that he has withdrawn from interfering in the matter of her marriage, it is permissible for her to do so; otherwise, based on obligatory precaution, it is not permissible.

http://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01250/

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They just need to identify as Christians/Jews; there are no stipulations on how often they go to Church/Synagogue. You can convince them of the validity of mut`a. Most of them are dating anyway, mut`a is a step up from dating.

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24 minutes ago, notme said:

No, a woman who has never been married is considered a virgin and you still need her father's consent to marry her. This law probably exists to protect the dignity (an in some cultures safety) of the girl. 

Hmmm... I heard a talk where a scholar (I believe he was a sayyed)  said that if physical penetration takes place then the virginity is gone, whether married or unmarried. Obviously if it is never revealed then no one will find out. 

I can see how and why the logic you said would apply. But I can also see it open to serious abuse. And it is the first time I have heard of this. 

Edited by YAli

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4 minutes ago, YAli said:

I can see how and why the logic you said would apply. But I can also see it open to serious abuse. And it is the first time I have heard of this. 

Per Sayyid Sistani. If your marja says differently, go with that. 

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32 minutes ago, Jawad_Amr said:

And the girl must tell to her father "can i do a mutah with this person ?" Or just "if i want to marry someone, will you let me get married ?"

I'm not sure I wish I had a straight answer

someone told me once you can say if your parents let you date?

and if they say yes you can assume you have parents permission(including fathers) but I want to double check on that. It sounds legitimate.

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1 hour ago, Al Hadi said:

I'm not sure I wish I had a straight answer

someone told me once you can say if your parents let you date?

and if they say yes you can assume you have parents permission(including fathers) but I want to double check on that. It sounds legitimate.

There is a difference between parents allowing a girl to date and parents allowing a girl to date a specific man, and another difference between allowing a girl to date and allowing her to have sex. Most modern Christian or secular parents don't forbid their daughters from dating, but still want to meet and approve of the guy before things get "too serious". Also most Christian parents don't allow their daughter to have sex outside of marriage. She might do it without their consent, but it's unlikely you'll meet many Christian parents who allow it. 

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2 hours ago, YAli said:

Hmmm... I heard a talk where a scholar (I believe he was a sayyed)  said that if physical penetration takes place then the virginity is gone, whether married or unmarried. Obviously if it is never revealed then no one will find out. 

I can see how and why the logic you said would apply. But I can also see it open to serious abuse. And it is the first time I have heard of this. 

A woman who loses her virginity due to zina is still considered a virgin aa far as I remember

Edited by E.L King

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59 minutes ago, notme said:

Most modern Christian or secular parents don't forbid their daughters from dating, but still want to meet and approve of the guy before things get "too serious". Also most Christian parents don't allow their daughter to have sex outside of marriage. She might do it without their consent, but it's unlikely you'll meet many Christian parents who allow it. 

Yeah this might be applicable maybe 10-15 years ago but not now. I have met Christian parents who don't hold this view at all. A very small minority of them may have this belief but sex, dating and all this is talked about openly and encouraged in these households with the focus on "safe sex" 

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8 minutes ago, Mushkil Kusha said:

Yeah this might be applicable maybe 10-15 years ago but not now. I have met Christian parents who don't hold this view at all. A very small minority of them may have this belief but sex, dating and all this is talked about openly and encouraged in these households with the focus on "safe sex" 

I'm sure that also depends on where in the world you live. American Christians are much more conservative than European ones, and rural or small town Christians tend to be more conservative than urban ones.

My Christian relatives are absolutely not OK with their teenage daughters having sex, and will forbid her seeing any man they don't approve. 

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2 hours ago, notme said:

There is a difference between parents allowing a girl to date and parents allowing a girl to date a specific man, and another difference between allowing a girl to date and allowing her to have sex. Most modern Christian or secular parents don't forbid their daughters from dating, but still want to meet and approve of the guy before things get "too serious". Also most Christian parents don't allow their daughter to have sex outside of marriage. She might do it without their consent, but it's unlikely you'll meet many Christian parents who allow it. 

Well I am speaking from a legal perspective I got this from a sayed who attended hawza for a few years and is very knowledgeable so I do feel he knows what he is talking about. From a legal perspective I know the comparison might sound strange to some of us but look at meat we don't analyze specifically were this meat came from and if its actually halal or not we know legally speaking its okay to eat meat sold by a muslim who says its halal.

Similarly in this society where lots of Christian women include sex in dating so when they're parents allow her to date you can assume they gave them independence to choose the person regardless of who they are. Sure theyre might be parents who don't allow sex in dating but similar to the meat scenario you dont have to investigate. If she takes it to that level with you by herself you know its ok you don't have to assume anything.I am not saying woman are pieces of meat I am just trying to explain the answer the sayed gave me by using this example.

This is how I imagine the answer the sayed gave me to work like. But I would want to send this over to sayed sistanis office and ask a few scholars I have on whattsapp if I have the thinking right this isn't for sure so I don't encourage anyone to just rely on this unless they have this confirmed by their local alims , asked scholars or have asked their marjas.  

 

Edited by Al Hadi

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12 hours ago, Jawad_Amr said:

And the girl must tell to her father "can i do a mutah with this person ?" Or just "if i want to marry someone, will you let me get married ?"

Brother

For virgin ( Baqrah ) permission of father is required whether Temporary Marriage ( Mutah ) or Permanent Marriage ( NIkah ) in both cases either permission from Father or Grand Father is required. If both are not alive then she can set her Wali for nikah or can take commands herself. But still scholars recommended to get suggestions from other family members like ( Mother , Brother and Uncles )

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