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In the Name of God بسم الله

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  • Veteran Member

That was the whole point. No photography can envelope enough of the earth in order to facilitate evidence of a flat earth simply because our vision and size is insignificant when compared to the object in question.

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This does happen. I was staying at a Russian monastery, but not in Russia. Russians in Russia—billion year old universe, evolution, round earth. No problems. The guesthouse had 5 of us there

I can't tell if you are serious or joking.

Does the video explain why ships go out of view when they pass the horizon? Or how gravity works? Or why earthquake vibrations pass through the earth like they do?

well technically we can use evidence like the following to find the truth. And the good thing is that this is stuff we can ourselves verify, to make sure it's not photoshopped or edited. Personally i've never seen but a flat horizon no matter how high up i was in an airplane for instance.

hqdefault.jpg

36f45d5af7f77be2b7785aba5b0ac8b6.jpg

 

chicago-799x284.jpg

 

seeing is believing. There is truth to this statement

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The perimeter of earth is 25000 miles therefore a 50 mile distance is insignificant and proves nothing. Under perfect conditions it should show an angle of 0.7 degrees if the earth is round (360 degrees total), which is also insignificant and undetectable. Of course you won't detect any curvature there. Want to know for sure? Use survey tools.

As for your other photos, we need to deal with them scientifically and must know the exact source, the height they were taken from and the exact area they are covering.

Sorry but if "seeing is believing" then Santa is also real.

Edited by Darth Vader
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  • Development Team
On 4/8/2016 at 1:02 PM, peace seeker II said:

brother @Gaius I. Caesar the explanation talks about different points of views without even saying whose they are. At the same time they do not address flat or spherical earth theory.

The idea of having many wests and many easts can be interpreted in many ways, as is pointed out by the link that you showed me. 

I would like people to get to the point and not only show me why certain proofs address spherical earth theory, but at the same time also see it from the perspective of the other side of the argument. Also see if it passes the test of the flat earth. This way we save time and effort, while having a more understanding and intelligent conversation. Sorry to say brother, but even according to the link you showed there is no definitive relation to these verses and a spherical earth. It is just one of many interpretation possibilities, while having no hadiths to back up one interpretation. 

thanks

Ah...ok, well I got something else to show you.

earth-curvature-from-space.jpg (420×315)

Seeing is believing, it's like you said, there's truth to this.

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  • Development Team
1 hour ago, peace seeker II said:

Yes brother Gaius seeing is believing 

And seeing for ourselves, as this above picture could be photo shopped. So the best way is to take photos from mountaintops or airplanes or distant horizons ourselves. If the whole space station and earth picture from the moon is a hoax then this might as well be a hoax as well. 

Ok, hold on second: 1109807.jpg (1024×695)

Brother peace, do you notice a very faint curve towards the horizon? By the way, this is from a plane and I bore witness to this curve on my numerous flights across the Atlantic in my childhood to visit my family in United States from Germany. 

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Brother I must've flown literally hundreds of times and never remember seeing a curve. This picture is obviously with fish eye effect. I urge anybody to bring their own photo as pretty much all horizons on Google like search "horizon air plane" for instance and you'll see perfectly straight lines.  Unless the weather, clouds or mountains change the shape.

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16 minutes ago, peace seeker II said:

This picture is obviously with fish eye effect.

No, if it were the fish eye effect, it would be fairly obvious to me. (The curve in the horizon would be much more profound and distorted.) Besides, my eyes aren't "fish-eye lenses" either and I saw the curve for myself, brother peace.

I've looked up "horizon airplane" and I found some interesting pictures:

Sunset landscapes nature aircraft horizon HDR photography skyscapes skies wallpaper | 3840x2400 | 324288 | WallpaperUP (Curve)

 
 
 
As you can see, it is faint and subtle, but nonetheless there is a curve, @peace seeker II
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  • Development Team
7 minutes ago, peace seeker II said:

@Gaius I. Caesar funny enough if you look at the horizon of the first pictured u posted they look straight to me and only the last one looks curved. Maybe next time we fly or stand at a horizon we take pictures ourselves and bring them here. It is easy to make all kinds of effects these days with all kinds of apps 

Believe me, I will definitely give you some pics when I fly in a plane again.

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  • Veteran Member

Why should Caeser suffer the onus of proof for some wild theory with no brains. Rather its the duty of the one trying to sell it.

No proof or inconclusive evidence means it is bovine excrement.

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Why is anybody wasting time with this guy? [EDIT] There is a such thing as proving theories wrong but stuff like this is actually unbearable to read. I would never think I'd meet anybody who actually thought the Earth was flat! ALL these intellectual answers and still he somehow keeps on saying "Not proof"  *sigh* :confused: 

You were presented with Scientific evidence, Quran evidence, picture evidence etc etc etc. Then whenever somebody gets frustrated and begins to belittle your intelligence (Which is very questionable) you flip the muslim card "Please don't bully me, be kind, it's the muslim way" speaking as a STEM major please stay away from Physics. I was going to give you Kinematic proof that the earth is not flat but seeing as another already did that and still couldn't change your mind It would be a waste of my time. This reminds me of when Neil deGrasse Tyson had to go out of his way to prove to rapper B.O.B that the flat-earth theory was a myth.

Edited by starlight
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@Darth 

I have been doing nothing but prove this thread and most of my proofs have been ignored by you and others, especially the ones from quran.

What concerns horizons the Internet has some images that seem to contradict the vast majority of straight horizons. Therefore those interested in the truth should contribute by getting their own evidence whenever they can instead of sitting back and only complaining / insulting like you. If something is brainless then it is that. Hateful and arrogant 

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@Oneof

Insulting people is unacceptable according to site rules and islam. Especially here it is cowardly and keep in mind that I did not insult you or even talk to you. The likes of you and Darth seem to get a satisfaction from being rude to people unprovoked. And if my opinion about the physical structure of earth offends you so much that you resort to personal insults then you should review your own understanding, as the anger is created by Satan. Satan teaches arrogance and make people blind. Like imam reza said "foul language is the weapon of the wicked" 

And notice the past two foul posts have zero evidence or relevant information. But you being a rude person probably means you won't understand what I'm saying now, as akhlaq or manners are directly linked to the ability to understand. But in the sunah of the prophet it is at least my duty to try and notify and warn you. Arrogant and rude people have a terrible end. Nice guys end up having a great reward. 

But if rude guys apologize and repent then God will forgive them, so there is always hope till you die, then there will be nothing you can do.

Additionally when the insulted person makes dua against the insulter this life can be he'll too for the insulter. 

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  • Veteran Member
3 hours ago, peace seeker II said:

Therefore those interested in the truth should contribute by getting their own evidence whenever they can instead of sitting back and only complaining / insulting like you.

Not again. :/ I've been trying to help you. But it is becoming more obvious what you wanted and what is annoying you.

3 hours ago, peace seeker II said:

Hateful and arrogant 

Only thing I hate is a lie. God hates it too. So does imam raza (as).

 

2 hours ago, peace seeker II said:

The likes of you and Darth seem to get a satisfaction from being rude to people unprovoked.

Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.j

Why should I hate you? Rather God, imams and myself we only hate lies.

Edited by Darth Vader
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Really @Darth, you hate lies? I do too! The only problem is that I believe that what we have been taught is lies in many aspects including geography. 

So, let us wait and see who is right about this and I am also waiting.

And using foul language doesn't help anyone; least of all yourself.

 

I suggest u contribute to this thread by giving ur evidence from science and quran, while avoiding baseless judgments without even backing them up. 

Who was it who said something along the lines of "say good or say nothing at all"? 

So stick to evidence that we can work with. Nobody here will be convinced just because you use rude words like excrement to describe my ideas. 

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  • Advanced Member

As soon as you start disproving the thoughts of others instead of just claiming "that's not proof" then we will take you seriously. Nah shaitan has nothing to do with what I am saying, liberty is the right of all men. Yet once you start claiming things that could be hurtful to others by straining them from the path of truth then it becomes a problem. 

9 hours ago, peace seeker II said:

@Oneof

Insulting people is unacceptable according to site rules and islam. Especially here it is cowardly and keep in mind that I did not insult you or even talk to you. The likes of you and Darth seem to get a satisfaction from being rude to people unprovoked. And if my opinion about the physical structure of earth offends you so much that you resort to personal insults then you should review your own understanding, as the anger is created by Satan. Satan teaches arrogance and make people blind. Like imam reza said "foul language is the weapon of the wicked" 

And notice the past two foul posts have zero evidence or relevant information. But you being a rude person probably means you won't understand what I'm saying now, as akhlaq or manners are directly linked to the ability to understand. But in the sunah of the prophet it is at least my duty to try and notify and warn you. Arrogant and rude people have a terrible end. Nice guys end up having a great reward. 

But if rude guys apologize and repent then God will forgive them, so there is always hope till you die, then there will be nothing you can do.

Additionally when the insulted person makes dua against the insulter this life can be he'll too for the insulter. 

You have quoted Imams and claimed that by me telling you that you are wrong (which you are) I am doing the work of the devil. You honestly sound like a Wahabbi or some person who hides behind religion to avoid being pointed out their flaws, which you are overflowing in. I've gone ahead and read your posts and nothing intellectual seems to come out of them. When presented with theories and proof that have been scripted as law based on Physical sense in which we apply to Engineering concepts daily, you totally spaz out and say "Not proof". What I'm seeing here is YOU trying to act smart which is almost hilarious because you must be afraid of accepting the truth which... must mean... The devil's whispering in your ear O_O!! You should repent my friend and seek guidance! I recommend your closest library as a form of it. Pick up a book and come back when you have actual proof that you and your coo coo idea of a flat earth is plausible.

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"Curse of Allah and others be on you. You are a weaver and son of a weaver. You are the son of an unbeliever and yourself a hypocrite." - Imam Ali to ash'ath ibn Qays. (In anger)

If you can't handle an insult then you're not fit to be debating, I'm insulting your way of thinking not so much you, as I have never met you and nor do I care for you. In Islam I have the liberty, privelage and DUTY to stand up for the truth. You stand againts it, 

I'm waiting for you to post proof that the world is flat because It seems you have denied all aspects of knowledgeable answers so I want to see your way of thinking first. 

Awaiting your reply, 

Edited by OneOfTheSyyeds
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On 4/11/2016 at 9:06 PM, OneOfTheSyyeds said:

"Curse of Allah and others be on you. You are a weaver and son of a weaver. You are the son of an unbeliever and yourself a hypocrite." - Imam Ali to ash'ath ibn Qays. (In anger)

If you can't handle an insult then you're not fit to be debating, I'm insulting your way of thinking not so much you, as I have never met you and nor do I care for you. In Islam I have the liberty, privelage and DUTY to stand up for the truth. You stand againts it, 

I'm waiting for you to post proof that the world is flat because It seems you have denied all aspects of knowledgeable answers so I want to see your way of thinking first. 

Awaiting your reply, 

S/A

First of all, the hadith you quote to justify your method of "debating" does not apply: there was no debate in the hadith. Imam Ali was rebuking a hypocrite and thief. How does it apply to debating with a believer on a scientific topic?

With all due repsect brother, it is my opinion that your understanding of what debating is flawed. While you have the duty to defend this so-called "truth", do you realize you have an equal or greater duty to respect and honour your Shia brother. If you think you are doing "Nahy Anil Munkar", then you also need to know that Nahy anil munkar has a method and a means. It has to be done very very politely. Have you not read the story of how the two Imams Hussein and Hassan (a.s) explained to the old man how to do wudhu correctly? Were there insults when they stood for the truth? Or have you not read that a believer is holier than the Ka'bah? Are you allowed to be rough with or disrespectful of the Ka'bah?

The correct way of debating and standing for the "truth" is: you believe this thing, well I respect your belief, but I don't agree. Let's bring our proofs and discuss them very calmly and politely, and if they don't satisfy one or both of us, let's agree to disagree. Life goes on.

And if you still believe that debating has to include conversational destroyer tactics which includes a spicy mix of insults, I respect that opinion, but lets just not "debate" then.

Having said that, I find extremely amusing the fact that you treat brother peace's opinion of the earth maybe being flat as so very personally hurtful as you said:

On 4/11/2016 at 8:29 PM, OneOfTheSyyeds said:

Yet once you start claiming things that could be hurtful to others

Brother, realize that this thing called Science that you and so many others seem to treat as being holy is something that has changed extremely radically many times throughout history and absolutely can not be referred to as the "truth". Rather, it is only and only our current understanding, and any rational person accepts that it can change radically once again at any time. Therefore, it is a blunder to identify with it or any part of it and be "hurt" when someone questions it, but rather one should absolutely always be open minded and ready to adapt.

As for the flat earth theory, the only thing I can personally say without a doubt is: I call shenanigans. If, amongst other things, photos and video have been taken of many different places from more than 60 miles away from those places, something is wrong. I can't say for certain what is wrong or what is right, but I can say that in this case 2 + 2 seems to be = 3.

W/S

Madzi

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@madzi If you had read the other posts you would've concluded that I was going against the establishment of "Imams not insulting others" It seems though that you did not. It applied because when facts are never rebuked or acknowledged then you might as well be arguing with a wall. 

You speak as if I care. Whether or not he's a "Shia brother" his thoughts collided with my own and seeing as it's a forum in which the freedom to express was open I did. Of course only when I concluded that every fact or point had been touched on and still ignored then I decided to not have the intellectuals in this thread waste their time with further discussion by insulting him (Sure I'll apologize if feelings were hurt).

Honestly half of your analogies make no sense, comparing a believer to the ka'bah is ridiculous. The only thing I could find was a Muslims blood being holier then the ka'bah nothing about one's thoughts or feelings. 

Don't call me your "Brother" if you are going to isolate my post and attempt to argue because you feel compelled to defend the thoughts of another. If that is the case then don't waste my time with this philosophical mindset that you wish to teach me because honestly it's making you look bad in my eyes.

8 hours ago, madzi said:

And if you still believe that debating has to include conversational destroyer tactics which includes a spicy mix of insults, I respect that opinion, but lets just not "debate" then.

 

lol what? This is quote right here discredits anything up there you just said.  Last I checked I was in the wrong and corrected by the moderator for a 5th grade level insult which I won't repeat again, you act like it's the end of the world. Stop thinking Muslims are some emotionless, perfect creatures we're not. We act like people do so it's normal to react in the frustrated way that I did.

8 hours ago, madzi said:

Rather, it is only and only our current understanding, and any rational person accepts that it can change radically once again at any time. Therefore, it is a blunder to identify with it or any part of it and be "hurt" when someone questions it, but rather one should absolutely always be open minded and ready to adapt.

My God, I'm honestly starting to have a hard time believing you read any of the other posts. Here I'll rehash for you. Everybody was attempting to make points and even I wanted to see the reasoning of why he believed the earth was flat. Nothing was rebuked correctly by all the other thoughts that were presented. He merely chose not to want to believe them, which is fine but like I said wasting everybody else's time.

Science is always subject to change and be challenged but that's done on theories. Not laws that are proven based off of applied science that concludes 'sense' that the earth is not flat. Theories are challenged by logic and I didn't see any being said by the curious fellow's posts. 

8 hours ago, madzi said:

I can't say for certain what is wrong or what is right, but I can say that in this case 2 + 2 seems to be = 3.

I read that paragraph maybe 2-3 times didn't make sense of any of it, maybe try rephrasing? My bad.

No insults/hate towards anybody involved in this post, merely me providing my two cents. It's impossible to say that I'm being rude or hateful based off of my tone in a forum, so please do keep in mind I'm writing this with no hate :).

Please stay on topic by the way, If you have a problem with the way I talk to one of your "brothers" then don't quote me looking to start a fight on an already one week post that was halted by a moderator.

Edited by OneOfTheSyyeds
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  • Veteran Member

The moon is clearly spherical. The sun is spherical. We can see them and confirm, especially the moon which we can observe with the naked eye. We witness these bodies rising and setting and we know their shapes well. As muslims, our islamic calendar works because of its spherical shape and the 3D position vs solar light. No real need for further probing about moon's shape, right?

Yet, somehow, some people believe that the earth is completely different and has the shape of a flat disc while moon and sun may remain spherical? How absurd. How can anyone peddle such incomplete, ridiculous theories. Seriously. Its a mockery of human thought process and insult to all thinkers, scholars and scientists. @starlight thats the cause for concern here.

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1 hour ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I think the topic and thread has been exhausted and made pointless, a mod should lock it soon. 

Or people could just stop posting. Peace seeker has unregistered. There is no flat earther left to argue.

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  • 1 month later...
On 3/26/2016 at 10:46 AM, peace seeker II said:

Just to make things clear: 

our shehada to be muslim is

La ilah ilAllah wamuhamad Rasul Allah

There is no 'wal ard kawkab metdawar' ( .. and the earth is a round planet)

 

So no takfirism against me just because of my spacial discoveries please. We can be muslim and have different opinions here about earth theories please. 

Wow I could not get myself to continue reading past this point. I am new to this site so I hope this isn't a good sampler of how discussions go on here. Brother I am truly sorry for the level of ignorance you had to endure.  When Darth Vader, a roman statue and a man god with a red serpent on his chest (which I am sure he believes is an S just as much as he believes everything else) are attacking someone seeking answers for being too absurd.  You'ld think people here would be the last people to make the mistake of dismissing something without a fair investigation.  

I have never argued with a fool and won--Imam Ali a.s. 

I would like to help you find the answers you are looking for.  These posts are a bit outdated, so if you are still convinced or find the evidence compelling I will gladly look into it.  Feel free to private message and we can go from there.

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4 hours ago, Prince of spacetime said:

Wow I could not get myself to continue reading past this point. I am new to this site so I hope this isn't a good sampler of how discussions go on here. Brother I am truly sorry for the level of ignorance you had to endure.  When Darth Vader, a roman statue and a man god with a red serpent on his chest (which I am sure he believes is an S just as much as he believes everything else) are attacking someone seeking answers for being too absurd.  You'ld think people here would be the last people to make the mistake of dismissing something without a fair investigation.  

I have never argued with a fool and won--Imam Ali a.s. 

I would like to help you find the answers you are looking for.  These posts are a bit outdated, so if you are still convinced or find the evidence compelling I will gladly look into it.  Feel free to private message and we can go from there.

I did do a fair investigation of the flat earth theory and the conclusion I came to is it is a theory based on speculation,not facts. I couldn't finish the second hour of the video the OP was  convinced by, I tried to be understanding and objective but it's hard when the video talks of world conspiracies and international coverups ad nauseaum. While a conspiracy may be evidence in some case, in this case, it is wild speculation. You can go to the very beginning of the thread to see the video in question if you want. Anyway, the OP unregistered so he didn't get your message.

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11 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I did do a fair investigation of the flat earth theory and the conclusion I came to is it is a theory based on speculation,not facts. I couldn't finish the second hour of the video the OP was  convinced by, I tried to be understanding and objective but it's hard when the video talks of world conspiracies and international coverups ad nauseaum. While a conspiracy may be evidence in some case, in this case, it is wild speculation. You can go to the very beginning of the thread to see the video in question if you want. Anyway, the OP unregistered so he didn't get your message.

My comment wasn't addressing the authenticity of the theory he was proposing but rather the way it was being handled.  Mocking someone for questioning something that you don't believe absolutely true isn't evidence you are right.  He was simply asking for explanation for things in his video.  I didn't watch it because I am familiar with the idea and didn't want to waste time if I was able to get the information from the responses to the video.  But this was not how it was handled.  And frankly it's disappointing to see how many of the ones who tried to be scientific are everything but.  Not to mention the condescending matter they presented their completely false or irrelevant answers.  I'll demonstrate...

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First it should be obvious that science is being used as a branch in the war on God.  I can support that if the science vs religion battle isn't obvious to everyone.

But Here’s a little example of how masses are being manipulated on a grand and dangerous scale.  First this man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PdiUoKa9Nw

calculates the gravitational constant using two giant balls.  Then Einstein, using that constant, constructs his field equations to reflect their observations of gravity. 

Then they find out that their theory is inconsistent with the motion of galaxies. hmm solutions? maybe gravitational constant isn’t constant or completely wrong?? Einstein’s equations are incomplete?? Nope, there must be invisible matter that has mass that we can’t detect no matter what we try. Okkk!!

 let’s call it Dark Matter. Don’t get me started on gravitational lensing.

Ok then we find out that the galaxies are speeding away from each other when gravity is supposed to be slowing them down…hmmm. No problem, you guys clearly must not have heard about Dark Matter’s older sister Dark Energy :)

You don’t believe scientists manipulate data to serve their theories? Ok here’s a small example,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70Y1Dri0umI

pay attention to the conversation at minute 51 and 101 although you should watch the whole thing if you want to hear that beautiful moment when puppet master Brian Greene justifies tweeking the parameters because
“the results feel right!” Lol

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2013/11/our-understanding-of-gravity-is-fundamentally-wrong-two-conflicting-theories-of-the-universe.html

Oh oh! People are losing faith in us, hurry give them a dose of breakthroughs. How about the discovery of “THE GOD PARTICLE”.  YES!!! Hit me again!

Gravitational waves??? Ouuu I like the way that sounds, will they buy it?

Hahaha, will they buy it he says.  These zombies will eat anything we serve them.  We will soften them up with some Brian first

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s06_jRK939I

then watch them get high looking at LIGO.

https://www.quora.com/Is-LIGO-not-vulnerable-to-earthquakes-plate-shiftings-etc

https://www.theguardian.com/science/across-the-universe/2016/jan/12/gravitational-wave-detection-could-be-a-false-alarm

This is not to prove anything other than to take everything with dash of salt and respect opposing view points.

 

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On 1/8/2016 at 11:08 AM, DigitalUmmah said:

OP what are your thoughts on this gif

 

AReqgfP.gif

What are your thoughts on the fact that motion is always relative, ref the theory relativity. I claim that the earth is motionless and it's the sun that revolves around it while the planets revolve around the sun, please provide me with something that disproves my claim. Experimental evidence would be monumental here.

Edited by Prince of spacetime
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On 11/5/2015 at 2:19 PM, Akbar673 said:

I can't believe someone still believes the Earth is flat and is trying to defend that...I'm seriously cracking up laughing reading this thread.

 

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 

no, but seriously (if that's possible at this point)...the basic confirmation you need that the Earth is round is the shadow it casts on the Moon. 

 

A round shadow can only be cast by a round object... :rolleyes:

a disk or a circle is a round object.  A flat object can be round. A flat object can cast a round shadow.

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10 hours ago, Prince of spacetime said:

What are your thoughts on the fact that motion is always relative, ref the theory relativity. I claim that the earth is motionless and it's the sun that revolves around it while the planets revolve around the sun, please provide me with something that disproves my claim. Experimental evidence would be monumental here.

Are you trolling?

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