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In the Name of God بسم الله

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@notme how can the mainstream "laws" of gravity prove that the earth is round?

 

and if you want a picture of the edge, then i want a measurement of gravity from the "south pole" please.

 

i haven't seen the edge of the earth myself, and i also haven't seen the globe either. 

 

I don't rely on strangers for flat earth theory. The evidence i saw in the quran and the video are enough for me personally to rather believe it is flat. 

 

@Gaius I. Caesar brother, it seems you agree with me that those terms mean spread in a horizontal manner from pretty much all arabic translations. using a dictionary is a good idea. If you wana discuss let me know.   those terms are used when we say "spread the tablecloth for instance or the bed sheet" .. or "spread its wings" ..   

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47 minutes ago, peace seeker II said:

 brother, it seems you agree with me that those terms mean spread in a horizontal manner from pretty much all arabic translations. using a dictionary is a good idea. If you wana discuss let me know.   those terms are used when we say "spread the tablecloth for instance or the bed sheet" .. or "spread its wings" .

@peace seeker II I do agree with you  on the Arabic but here's the thing, to spread across a horizon means especially when it comes to vast object like Earth, proves to me that it is a spherical object. According to the Flat Earth theory, I should be able to see Europe and Africa in the distance with a telesope but I can't because number one, I'm not Superman and number two, the horizon prevents me from doing so. If there is any conspiracy involved about the Earth, it is that the Earth is most likely hollow. Anyway, I have another question for you, are you familiar with the Davis model of the Flat Earth and if so, what do you think of it?

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Please refrain from personal insults. 

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. You can present information, but you can't force people to listen to it. Don't let it stress you out. 

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it took me about 0.1 seconds of waiting on google to find many many explanations from Flat Earthers (over one million hits!):

quite forthcoming mashaAllah

example of the first couple of hits and very logical explanations:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=7408.0#.VvufOhyFKkQ

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=2241.0

 

really cool how flat earthers have the same use of word "spotlight" similar to the one in the Qruan

 

People can search all arguments online. I think @notme's argument was by far the best, and even flat earthers struggled with it. Here is an example of a post i read the other day really challenging me:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=49864.0#.VvuhWRyFKkQ

I respect people who challenge me intellectually, and this is not the first time i argue something as its' only representative on shiachat. In the case of satellites it simply is too far fetched and untestable for me to take it seriously. After all what we know about them, including their names, is exclusively from the same people who fluoridate our water. 

 

But i even told my wife about notme's challenge (and it leading me to further major challenge by the user on FE society forum) and those things make me very happy alhamdulilah. Intellectual challenges.

 

but it's nice to see how civilized they are on the flat earth society forum masha Allah. Of course i sense the same emotions as here, but they don't express them in vulgar ways. that in itself is evidence for me that they are on the right path, as iblis does not control their tempers that much.

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@Gaius I. Caesar i don't quite understand how something being described in three different ways as spreading in a vast way can be evidence for something being wrapped around itself in a sphere.

What concerns the finite view of horizons: a fact is that the further away an object is, the less we can see it. For instance a person standing a kilometer away does not reveal any details and almost disappears. The light traveling from there is not enough to trigger an action potential of our sensory mini animal creatures at the back of our eyes (cells). It makes sense that after a certain distance we see nothing at all due to the dense air in between (with especially water vapor in its way). And actually the horizon is evidence for flat earth because if the earth was round then the horizon itself would be curved but we see otherwise.

flat-earth-horizon-flat.thumb.jpg.491cae

 

http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/01/flat-earth-horizon.html

 

Can you please explain the Davis model of flat earth? roughly anyway? thanks

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@@Darth Vader Yes, the shadow on the moon is a shadow, but nobody has seen where it is from. According to some it is a shadow of a small object orbiting the sun. It could be a countless number of other objects just as planets:


 

Quote

 

The Lunar Eclipse

A Solar Eclipse occurs when the moon passes in front of the sun.

A Lunar Eclipse occurs about twice a year when a satellite of the sun passes between the sun and moon.

This satellite is called the Shadow Object. Its orbital plane is tilted at an angle of about 5°10' to the sun's orbital plane, making eclipses possible only when the three bodies (Sun, Object, and Moon) are aligned and when the moon is crossing the sun's orbital plane (at a point called the node). Within a given year, considering the orbitals of these celestial bodies, a maximum of three lunar eclipses can occur. Despite the fact that there are more solar than lunar eclipses each year, over time many more lunar eclipses are seen at any single location on earth than solar eclipses. This occurs because a lunar eclipse can be seen from the entire half of the earth beneath the moon at that time, while a solar eclipse is visible only along a narrow path on the earth's surface.

Total lunar eclipses come in clusters. There can be two or three during a period of a year or a year and a half, followed by a lull of two or three years before another round begins. When you add partial eclipses there can be three in a calendar year and again, it's quite possible to have none at all.

The shadow object is never seen because it orbits close to the sun. As the sun's powerful vertical rays hit the atmosphere during the day they will scatter and blot out nearly every single star and celestial body in the sky. We are never given a glimpse of the celestial bodies which appear near the sun during the day - they are completely washed out by the sun's light.

It is estimated that the Shadow Object is around five to ten miles in diameter. Since it is somewhat close to the sun the manifestation of its penumbra upon the moon appears as a magnified projection. This is similar to how during a shadow puppet show your hand's shadow can make a large magnified projection upon your bedroom wall as you move it closer to the flashlight.

Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham has provided equations for finding the time, magnitude, and duration of a Lunar Eclipse at the end of Chapter 11 of Earth Not a Globe.

There is also a possibility that the Shadow Object is a known celestial body which orbits the sun; but more study would be needed to track the positions of Mercury, Venus and the sun's asteroid satellites and correlate them with the equations for the lunar eclipse before any conclusion could be drawn.


 

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=The+Lunar+Eclipse

 

 

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2 hours ago, peace seeker II said:

@@Darth Vader Yes, the shadow on the moon is a shadow, but nobody has seen where it is from. According to some it is a shadow of a small object orbiting the sun. It could be a countless number of other objects just as planets:


 

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=The+Lunar+Eclipse

 

 

The point of my previous post was also to observe the shadow on the moon, like Magellan, and see that the moon has a spherical shape, and that God is indeed capable of making far more complex and rather beautiful systems than a flat soaked pizza for us to live on with a blunt transparent dome over it to stop our space shuttles because He has no other clever ideas to confine us to this zoo? No rather God's knowledge is unfathomable and His works are beyond beautiful. Even Satan would not belittle Him thus.

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Belittle? What is wrong with a vast spread out earth with mountains as it's pegs? Trying to say that I'm worse than Satan? You find new ways of being rude every day. I wonder if you know who encourages rudeness and takfirism? Satan or Allah?

There is no reason why a ball should be superior to a carpet 

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I would like to add that this earth and the heavens are beyond beautiful and words can not explain how amazing all these creations are just the way they are. It's only humans and Jinn who destroy it and fail to recognize its greatness as well as use its fantastic greatness to understand more and have more faith in Allah the Creator and Nurturer and Lord of the worlds. In the creation of the heavens and earth are signs for those who see. 

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On 03/31/2016 at 11:14 PM, peace seeker II said:

Belittle? What is wrong with a vast spread out earth with mountains as it's pegs? Trying to say that I'm worse than Satan? You find new ways of being rude every day. I wonder if you know who encourages rudeness and takfirism? Satan or Allah?

There is no reason why a ball should be superior to a carpet 

How about a carpetted ball? Imagine it if you can. "Pegs" can serve as windbreaks and paper weights and only God knows what else.

But since you know best here, do take the time to explain:

Meteor showers. Meteors striking earth. Comets. 6 month day night cycle at poles.

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On 3/30/2016 at 6:23 AM, peace seeker II said:

Can you please explain the Davis model of flat earth? roughly anyway? thanks

It is, as I understand it, the idea that Earth is an infinitely expanding object with a finite gravity

 

On 3/31/2016 at 2:14 PM, peace seeker II said:

Belittle? What is wrong with a vast spread out earth with mountains as it's pegs? Trying to say that I'm worse than Satan? You find new ways of being rude every day. I wonder if you know who encourages rudeness and takfirism? Satan or Allah?

Like I said, you were rude first, in fact I think the both of you are being rude and should stop it. There is nothing wrong with Flat Earth, except that it is wrong and cannot be proven scientifically, plus people were killed over it. That's what wrong with Flat Earth for me. Anyway, if the Earth is flat, what becomes of the meteorites falling to Earth? If gravity doesn't exist, why I do feel like I am being pulled down by my stomach in a elevator? 

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14 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

How about a carpetted ball? Imagine it if you can. "Pegs" can serve as windbreaks and paper weights and only God knows what else.

But since you know best here, do take the time to explain:

Meteor showers. Meteors striking earth. Comets. 6 month day night cycle at poles.

So thinking that this earth is a carpet ball is so noble, and thinking that it's laid out flat and "vast" makes one worse than satan. I shouldnt even talk to you, but i'll tell you this: all answers are on google. wrote for instance

 

Google: "flat earth society meteor shower"

 

it will take 0.74 seconds and you will have 54,600 hits, including forums, videos etc.

 

If you are serious about finding out the truth, you should be a truth seeker yourself. My name is not google, nor library. I am not working here as your researcher or teacher. Just as notme said, i can only bring the creature to the water, but i can't drink for them.

 

So next time you ask a question from the top of your head, consult google first, then after you find the Flat Earthers struggling with it, then bring it here. Otherwise you are just trying to re-invent the wheel, while there is already nano-technology out there. Let us stand on shoulders of giants and not live in caves while figuring out how to make a fire ok?

 

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8 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

It is, as I understand it, the idea that Earth is an infinitely expanding object with a finite gravity

 

Like I said, you were rude first, in fact I think the both of you are being rude and should stop it. There is nothing wrong with Flat Earth, except that it is wrong and cannot be proven scientifically, plus people were killed over it. That's what wrong with Flat Earth for me. Anyway, if the Earth is flat, what becomes of the meteorites falling to Earth? If gravity doesn't exist, why I do feel like I am being pulled down by my stomach in a elevator? 

ah interesting concerning the Davis model.

 

Did i start the insulting? Can you tell me where? Because i just went back again and see that i was talking in a very respectful way, and the guy calling himself Darth was rude and condescending from the beginning.

Nobody said gravity doesn't exist, and as i wrote above, i suggest you google what flat earth arguments are for each topic before asking me. That's if you are truly interested in finding the other point of view.

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i've noticed something here:

When i get proofs for flat earth, people disregard it. What is the point of posting here, while everybody seems to ignore whatever evidence i get in my favor, while people keep repeating their own questions. People keep telling me

"horizons"

"gravity" etc

as if that's proof. But when i ask "when did i ever say there was no gravity?" or "what relevance does gravity have in proving a spherical vs. flat earth", i never get an answer.

 

Just like in the post above about horizons being a straight (not curved) line, even from 20 miles high, this was just ignored.

 

It seems that evidence for the issue are just overlooked, while people just use ideas from the top of their heads as supposed evidence. Not only this, but it gets repeated again and again. Instead of researching themselves. I think this is a characteristic of the end-times where truth will be hidden and falsehood propagated. 

If as notme said, this is a mental exercise, then people are very unfit. 

 

the procedure here has been 1 or 2 steps at max.

1 - first someone brings a supposed idea against flat earth

2 - i prove it wrong

it should be that there is a third step of someone taking my proof apart and trying to prove it wrong, but that doesn't happen.

Another thing i've observed in these discussions is that people would bring a supposed proof attempt, and the simple question of asking about its relevance would end the procedure. Like the gravity story. How many times did people mention the word "gravity" on this thread, without actually explaining why gravity would prove a round earth, or how. I've asked many times this question, and never got an answer.
 

The obvious answer would be "only spheres have gravity", but that is not true.

 

Then come the insults: oh God and the rudeness. I posted this thread initially on the science forum, and tried to move the discussion to the Quran section. How quranic and scientific discussions could be laced with direct insults and personal rudeness (including tafirism and mocking) is an enigma to me. Other than the Batman nobody defended me against this cowardly oppression. 

 

In any case, God is my witness and He is enough of an executioner of affairs. 

 

And i think i should stop wasting my time further with people who obviously don't want to find the truth about other people's perspectives. Because if they do, then they will not attack one person in an attempt to defend their own dogmas; but they will research about it again.

For me personally, the only reason i put up with this is simply this:

I want to challenge myself and my own ideas of things. By throwing controversial issues out there and reading people's responses, it shows me simply what is right and wrong. When i first found out about the scientific background of the flat earth theory, i was shocked and thought people will be able to prove it wrong immediately. The more i argued with people here, the more sure i became that what we've been taught is a big cover-up and illusion. When listing the proofs for flat earth, they towered the arguments for round earth masha Allah.

I will continue with this, and appreciate anybody who can discuss this in a civilized way. By civilized i mean as well somebody willing to do some homework themselves. I am not to spoon-feed people what is already out there, written by people who know much better than me. Instead of making educated guesses and starting from scratch, we can have a more informed approach, which is actually for the benefit of the debater. If you already have a background from your own reading, you will appear much stronger in the discussion. 

Each time one of you asks me a question i can't answer, i look it up. If you had looked it up you, then you would have been able to find it for yourself. Also, maybe you could find weaknesses in their argument for or against it. Anyway, let us open a new thread about speech and debate. That is what is needed here i believe:

wasalaam

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3 minutes ago, peace seeker II said:

Nobody said gravity doesn't exist, and as i wrote above, i suggest you google what flat earth arguments are for each topic before asking me. That's if you are truly interested in finding the other point of view.

I know nobody said anything gravity not existing yet but I have going on the Flat Earth wiki and seem they keep suggesting that gravity is greatly exaggerated or an outright lie. I am not really sure what think about this, bro Peace. Anyway, I am sorry for being harsh to you earlier, I wasn't trying to be arrogant or a Mr. Know-It-All. I don't know, I think I was shocked at how fast and easily convinced you were by the Flat Theory and I was getting Flat Earth mixed up with a geocentric model of the solar system (ala Ptolemy). Do you accept my apology?  For the Davis model, see here: www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Davis+Model&highlight=Gravity

Saw a couple of videos by Flat Earthers saying gravity doesn't exist and meteorites are fact, fake and planted. Such an idea contradicts the Qur'an. I'll show them if you are interested.

I am interested in your thoughts on this article, although I don't quite understand the science behind the Davis model to grasp what is being said. I am more interested now in what you have to say after understanding you a bit better. 

27 minutes ago, peace seeker II said:

Did i start the insulting? Can you tell me where? Because i just went back again and see that i was talking in a very respectful way, and the guy calling himself Darth was rude and condescending from the beginning.

 

You insulted Darth Vader when you called him a "sperm", it's kind of appalling choice of words but nonetheless I think of you should stop insulting each other. It's childish and repetitive, plus makes harder to understand what you are talking about. @Darth Vader You can't attract flies with vinegar, you can only attract flies with honey.

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@Gaius I. Caesar as i told you i was called "Boy" first, and the "Sperm" was a direct reaction to the condescending remark. I believe i've told you that before already. That means he started, and other than calling him "sperm" i have never said anything you could use against me. On the other hand, he has a long list of insults against me, so don't put us on one level please. I can list them for you here if you want.

i accept your apology, although i don't think there is a need to apologize. You did nothing wrong. The only thing i don't accept in my heart is personal arrogance against me, which reminds me too much of iblis' arrogance against Adam. I hate arrogant people who belittle others. I hate them and curse them in my heart, but not on here. Somebody who comes on forums to personally insult and talk arrogantly to individuals on a personal level are the scum of the scum in my opinion. God guides whom he wishes, and that includes arrogant folk who mock others and bully them in cowardly ways.

 

Gravity:
I understand that you have an issue with gravity, and that some flat earth people claim it doesn't exist? that's the first time i heard of it. Can you elaborate please, and give their whole perspective please? Or, if you want i can find out myself. It might be that they say that the rules of gravity we were taught are wrong. In this case i surely agree, because i'm sure most things we were taught are wrong. But anyway, it would be good to understand who the denial of "rules of gravity" would make a difference in arguing the shape of our earth.

Meteor Showers:

Can you bring your evidence from the Quran please? I have never seen a meteor shower myself, and for all i know there could be a million other explanations for rocks falling from the sky. 

 

The flat earth society and people arguing flat earth are a small minority of people and it is hard to be able to explain everything all of a sudden from a new angle. Also, remember that even if the earth is flat, the flat earth people could be wrong about a thing or two. They are only people.

Furthermore, the speed at which is got convinced of flat earth was much slower than the speed at which i was convinced of shia islam. So speed is usually not a bad thing i think.

 

Anyway, i am looking forwards to your evidence from the quran, as well as scientific evidence for or against this model (as both scientific and quran threads were merged in one)

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@Gaius I. Caesar i tried reading up on Davis model, and it's too complicated for me right now. Maybe some other day i can sit down and patiently go through it. But if you can explain it in your words it would help for sure. thanks

 

It would be good if any person here (on this forum )could for instance explain

 

1 - how the earth was created before the 7 heavens according to Quran 2:29

2 - Or why there are surat sun and suret star, if they are the same thing

3 - why God mentions always heavens & earth (singular)

4 - why God talks about sun, moon, stars moving while earth is said to be immobile 

 

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6 minutes ago, peace seeker II said:

how the earth was created before the 7 heavens according to Quran 2:29

I can't explain that as only Allah (swt) in His All-Encompassing Wisdom can. Humans couldn't begin describe if they could, @peace seeker II But you look carefully at the "thumma" in 2:29, it seems to imply simultaneous creation of the Earth and heavens which fits with the Big Bang theory.

10 minutes ago, peace seeker II said:

Or why there are surat sun and suret star, if they are the same thing

Because the Sun nourishes and sustains life and temperature on Earth, while stars beautify the skies and guide us when travelling at night (15:16 and 25:61) in accordance to His Mercy to us ungrateful and lowly creatures of His. They serve different purposes to us humans despite being the same thing. So naturally, human languages including Arabic reflect this.

 

20 minutes ago, peace seeker II said:

why God mentions always heavens & earth (singular)

I believe it is referring to the seven layers of atmosphere of the Earth and the Earth itself when I come this phrase but depending on the context, it could mean stars, constellations and general outer space.

 

25 minutes ago, peace seeker II said:

why God talks about sun, moon, stars moving while earth is said to be immobile 

 

I thought it was God speaking in a way the Pagan Arabs and future peoples could understand, because from our perspective on the planet, Earth is immobile but if we look at Earth from space, it is moving and "swimming in orbit" (21:33)  

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55 minutes ago, peace seeker II said:

i accept your apology, although i don't think there is a need to apologize. You did nothing wrong. The only thing i don't accept in my heart is personal arrogance against me,

No, brother, I was pretty harsh and arrogant towards you but thank you for accepting my apology. My main issue was the Flat Earth theory was a stigma of mental illness and the Flat Earthers must have something wrong with their minds and were too busy being paranoid, wearing tin foil hats and accusative to think rationally and use 'aql. However, you proved to me that wasn't necessarily the case and I was very wrong to think that of you. As for the Flat Earth theory, I am indifferent to it and I doubt I'll ever believe it but I am very interested in what you have to say about it as I want understand why you believe this and I do look up to you.

1 hour ago, peace seeker II said:

Can you bring your evidence from the Quran please? I have never seen a meteor shower myself, and for all i know there could be a million other explanations for rocks falling from the sky. 

 

The best evidence I could find was 72:7-9 and 15:16-18, the description is pretty spot on for a meteor shower and I have seen a meteor shower and they really do look like flaming fires or burning lamps. Very similar to a shooting star but shorter and tend to flicker more, give the impression of stars raining. For me, gravity and meteor showers are a big obstacle for Flat Earth. I would have to deny gravity and meteor to accept Flat Earth theory right now, I would be an idiot to deny what I saw and call it a hoax.

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On 4/2/2016 at 5:14 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

But you look carefully at the "thumma" in 2:29, it seems to imply simultaneous creation of the Earth and heavens which fits with the Big Bang theory.

Sorry brother for late reply:

The word thuma is known very well as being "then" and not "while". For instance in the quran Allah uses this word 

Was he not a drop of sperm emitted ? Then (thuma) did he become a leech-like clot; then did (Allah) make and fashion (him) in due proportion. 75:37 -38

"Then (thumma) He will return you into the (earth), and raise you forth (again at the Resurrection)? 71:18

Then (thuma) on the Day of Judgment, will ye be raised up. 23:16

Then (thuma) We raised after them other generations. 23:42

 

If you notice the word thuma has a chronological use exactly like "and then", so from this verse we can conclude quite clearly that earth was created before the 7 heavens. What is interesting here is that another verse says that the "lamps" or "spotlights" commonly known as stars, sun and moon, are referred to as being in the nearest heaven. 

 

sun vs. star according to what we have taught is the exact same thing. The sun is another medium sized star that just happened to be closer. And we are orbiting around our sun /star. But it does not make sense that they are the same thing, if God makes an entire sura calling it star, and another entire surah calling it sun. To me that does not make sense, and shows me that they are two different things.

 

On 4/2/2016 at 5:14 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I believe it is referring to the seven layers of atmosphere of the Earth and the Earth itself when I come this phrase but depending on the context, it could mean stars, constellations and general outer space.

So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lowerheaven (al dunya ) with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge. 41:12

This is the aya i was talking about. It talks about there being misbah or lamps in the first layer. If this was talking about the first layer named troposphere (first 14 kms), then where are these lights? Additionally the way Allah talks about the seven heavens and earth, is like He is talking about all creations. 

The seven heavens and the earth, and all beings therein, declare His glory: there is not a thing but celebrates His praise; And yet ye understand not how they declare His glory! Verily He is Oft-Forbear, Most Forgiving!  17:44

The above example really does seem to encompass all of creations, including the stars and moon and sun.

Blessed is He Who made constellations in the skies, and placed therein a Lamp and a Moon giving light;  25:61

Definitely those heavenly bodies are meant as the lamps i would say. 


The earth is not once referred to as moving in the Quran, however the heavenly bodies like sun moon and stars are.

 

what concerns your apology: 

I don't remember you being rude, so maybe that is a blessing from God to make no bad feelings between us, yet i appreciate it very much that you apologize anyway. I likewise apologize for anything i did wrong to you dear brother. thank you!

 

concerning meteor shower:

i checked the verses, and they do not talk about the process of meteors falling onto earth. 

 

second point is that nobody is claiming that the dome over the flat earth has to be glass or some material that is transparent but can't be crossed under any circumstance. Maybe some flat earthers may claim it, but for me i see no correlation. 

Furthermore let me tell you what i know about some of the verses you mentioned:

15:16-19

It is We Who have set out the zodiacal signs in the heavens, and made them fair-seeming to beholders;

And We have guarded them from every cursed devil:

But any that gains a hearing by stealth, is pursued by a flaming fire, bright (to see).

And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance

 

so brother from the above we can conclude that the constellations are guarded (can not be the troposphere where hot air ballons and paragliders fly around), and not only that: it proves that this boundary is protected in some way or form. I remember reading that Jinn used to go to that boundary and listen to angels whisper about God's orders (destiny), then would come down and tell soothsayers about the future. During prophet Mohamed's time this was almost abolished based on his duas to make life literally hell for anybody who approaches there to listen in on the angels. (basically supporting the idea of a firmament that is guarded very well just before the constellation areas)

 

furthermore:

the other verses you posted confirm this and show that there is a boundary or firmament that that is heavily guarded and Jinn can not go through 72:9 -11

'And we pried into the secrets of heaven; but we found it filled with stern guards and flaming fires.

'We used, indeed, to sit there in stations, to a hearing; but any who listen now will find a flaming fire watching him in ambush.

 

this goes hand in hand with the area just before the constellations (stars), and i rather proof for my theory rather than yours :) It seems that what we've been taught is wrong after all, and the model of a flat earth is supported in the quran with zero proof for a spherical one.

 

thanks brother

 

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1 - several easts and wests: to me that is not evidence for a sphere, because it could be seen as several easts and wests along the north-south axis

2 - sun setting in different places at different times: when an object is further away, it will seem 

The further away an object, the closer it appears to the horizon, while it starts disappearing. 

Just like clouds seem higher in the sky when closer to us, than if they are further.

static1.squarespace.jpg

Here is a guy who uses the flat earth model to calculate distances and timings of sunsets and sunrises: (perspective)

 

 

i would look at this video, it is also very interesting in proving how objects don't disappear behind horizon when using a zoom camera, and finally how perspective works to give impression of sunrise and sunset:

 

especially the second video is very easy to understand and demonstrated.

 

3 - Proving through Islam rotation of the earth in the article attempts to use motion of pendulum and not Quran or Hadiths. To me the pendulum on a string is no clear evidence of flat earth at all. But again, showing there is no direct Quran or Hadith mention of a spherical earth.

4 - Seven heavens: The article seems to agree with what i said, which is 

Quote

“We have adorned the nearest heaven with an adornment, the stars,”

With this verse it is known that, all the stars are in the first heaven. (It should be remembered that in Arabic the word 'Duniya' means 'lower' and near.)

and in this page there are simply several theories discussed with mostly no reference to proof quranically or from hadiths.

 

 

Of course

  • the verse where earth is created before 7 heavens is not addressed (when constellation / stars are in first layer)
  • neither is the fact that there is repetative mention of heavens (plural) and earth (singular)
  • nor that earth is never described as moving (sabih) or floating like heavenly bodies
  • or how there are two suras called sun and star, and how that can be when people claim they are the same thing
  • Where is this separation layer mentioned in surat al Jinn as well as elsewhere? The one burning those who spy?

Maybe somebody can ask scholars these questions as well.

 

Don't you think it's odd that there isn't a single hadith or quran verse saying the earth is spherical? But only description of a vast spread out earth that is made immobile by pegs?

 

I am glad to have seen the opinions of honorable scholars on this issue, and having me cement my belief in a flat earth even further.


Thank you

 

 

 

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As we are mixing science with quran here quite freely, we might as well add another perspective:

this is for people who like to look at alternative angles of things:

 

ever heard of illuminate (anti-christ anti-mahdi) playing cards? They are especially famous for predicting WTC 911 way back in 1995, as well as other quite truthful things: (quite spot on or?)

 

ICC_Terrorist_nuke.jpg

 

more on this:

http://www.911thology.com/nexus1.html

 

they even have a card about conspiracy theorists ironically:

 

8163c7e2367e4081d731574835b1cfd8.jpg

 

anyway, here is a card i found about flat earthers:

flatearth2b.jpg

 

I think it's good to discuss all kinds of views, even the unconventional and alternative ones.

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Why would it be nonsensical? And I respect explanations of the quran if there were any. The links you provided do not address the quran verses in question. And other than the easts and wests there is no quran proof. And that argument would also hold for a flat earth where each location has its own sunrise and sunset. Talk sense to me with reasons. Why how where?

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1 hour ago, peace seeker II said:

And other than the easts and wests there is no quran proof. And that argument would also hold for a flat earth where each location has its own sunrise and sunset.

That right there is the problem with a literal interpretation of the Qur'an, we know for a fact that there is only one sun and one moon and that in itself does not disprove Flat Earth but it does disprove a literal interpretation. Remember, Qur'an has an inner (batin) and an outer (zahir) and that applies to the ayahs you quoted, @peace seeker II

I don't know if it will help but read this link: www.al-islam.org/philosophy-islamic-laws-nasir-makarim-shirazi-jafar-subhani/question-35-where-are-two-easts-and-two

Anyway, I have something interesting to show you, brother peace when I figure out how attach a .gif file.

Mods: I am having with the link work

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brother @Gaius I. Caesar the explanation talks about different points of views without even saying whose they are. At the same time they do not address flat or spherical earth theory.

The idea of having many wests and many easts can be interpreted in many ways, as is pointed out by the link that you showed me. 

I would like people to get to the point and not only show me why certain proofs address spherical earth theory, but at the same time also see it from the perspective of the other side of the argument. Also see if it passes the test of the flat earth. This way we save time and effort, while having a more understanding and intelligent conversation. Sorry to say brother, but even according to the link you showed there is no definitive relation to these verses and a spherical earth. It is just one of many interpretation possibilities, while having no hadiths to back up one interpretation. 

thanks

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4 minutes ago, Enlightened Follower said:

I bet he isn't a credible scientist.

instead of betting, why don't you try to find out scientifically if he's right or wrong. He is giving all the keys to his research and ideas that can be repeated. Science is all about being able to repeat something as evidence for a theory.

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The problem with all the pictures trying to "show" a "flat earth" is that the area of this spherical earth is simply too vast while our size is too insignificant in comparison to it in order to prove flat earth from imagery. Flatness can not be shown or proven through an image due to that reason.

So of course the railroad seems flat. Who in their right minds would actually expect to "see" a spheroidal railroad track!?

Edited by Darth Vader

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The railroad doesn't show flatness like the horizon picture above does (especially the one from miles above earth being a perfectly straight un curved horizon) . It simply shows perspective how something that is far away including the clouds appears to merge into the horizon. You will find all arguments and debates on each topic online. This is mainly the topic when discussing sunset and sunrise from flat earth perspective. 

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