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maybe you can try again and only stick to things you actually know. do you personally have a record of every nuke ever detonated? or is this secondary or tertiary evidence? Is that you regurgitating info other people give you and blindly trusting them?

 

also, if you want me to take you seriously, then stop using disrespectful terms like "donut" with me. i can guarantee you that you would never do that with me in real life!

furthermore, research your own points before saying them. you said that distance between south america and australia is too far to fly.

 

well, if you check on google, you will find that there are flights that are longer than this.

 

Quote

Since 23 November 2013, the longest non-stop scheduled airline flight is Qantas Flight 8 (QF8) from Dallas/Fort WorthUSA, to SydneyAustralia, and its return flight (QF7), 13,804 kilometres (7,454 nmi) flown using an Airbus A380-842 since 29 September 2014, and a Boeing 747-400ER before.

 

if you take a ruler on google earth from the heart of the australian continent to the heart of south american continent, you come to around 12,000 kilometers. Do you come up with conclusions at the whim of your mood or what? 

do i continue destroying your arguments?

 

maybe one more ..

 

antartica .. so you think it's ok to independently research and study and explore it right? then why is most of this supposed "continent" blurry on google earth? have you tried to explore the continent? then why do you talk about it as if you are so sure?

 

another thing you can do is watch the rest of the video first, then note all proofs, which are divided in about 15 and take notes. also, when quoting questions such as "how does presence of satellite prove round earth", you should answer regarding satellites, and not more info that you were indoctrinated with, like wether light travels straight (which we are told doesn't around black holes for instance). i have the answers for you, but don't feel like answering this way.

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6 hours ago, peace seeker II said:

 

maybe you can try again and only stick to things you actually know. do you personally have a record of every nuke ever detonated? or is this secondary or tertiary evidence? Is that you regurgitating info other people give you and blindly trusting them?

 

maybe you should focus more on asking where the video gets its evidence from?

here is a list of all the nuclear devices ever detonated

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_weapons_tests

go ahead and point out to me the ones that were fired "straight up". oh wait, there was no evidence presented in the video to prove any point. 

*snort* at "blindly trusting". the guy who decided to believe the earth is flat from an unsourced youtube video is mocking me for blindly trusting when I post evidence. 

6 hours ago, peace seeker II said:

also, if you want me to take you seriously, then stop using disrespectful terms like "donut" with me. i can guarantee you that you would never do that with me in real life!

leave your threats alone, rocky.

Im a thai boxing instructor with around a decades fighting experience (several of which were in illegal underground prize fights - some shiachatters who used to come watch me fight are probably still floating around this forum) and from a very old school gangster family. you cant do anything to me. 

6 hours ago, peace seeker II said:

furthermore, research your own points before saying them. you said that distance between south america and australia is too far to fly.

no, its better to pick up more customers, to generate more money by making stops. this also gives pilots a chance to rest, and maximises the journey time over land instead of open water. 

you understand that an airline is a company, and its in the company's interest to maximise the number of paying customers yeah? 

what do you think is more likely, a global conspiracy to hide the flat earth, or companies wanting to maximise profits and safety?

6 hours ago, peace seeker II said:

if you take a ruler on google earth from the heart of the australian continent to the heart of south american continent, you come to around 12,000 kilometers. Do you come up with conclusions at the whim of your mood or what? 

do i continue destroying your arguments?

(1) the airbus is a new-ish plane, it is not the standard plane used as a judgement of normal flight distances

(2) the jorney goes from the west coast of the US to Australia, not australia, past africa, to south america

6 hours ago, peace seeker II said:

antartica .. so you think it's ok to independently research and study and explore it right? then why is most of this supposed "continent" blurry on google earth? have you tried to explore the continent? then why do you talk about it as if you are so sure?

because google is a business, and it would cost money to picture an entire continent, and the ROI is too low?

hint: its a lot of plain white. why do they need a detailed streetview of that?

6 hours ago, peace seeker II said:

like wether light travels straight (which we are told doesn't around black holes for instance). i have the answers for you, but don't feel like answering this way.

there are no black holes between the sun and the earth so what point are you making?

Edited by DigitalUmmah

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Quote

9 minute 23: why cant you go in a straight line from australia to south america?

Qantas flies from Santiago, Chile to Sydney. 

https://www.google.com.pk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=qantas%20santiago%20to%20sydney

Also, you don't fly "straight" on a spherical object. The shortest distance is that of a great circle. Hence, flight paths appeared curved.

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7 minutes ago, Brained said:

Qantas flies from Santiago, Chile to Sydney. 

https://www.google.com.pk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=qantas%20santiago%20to%20sydney

Also, you don't fly "straight" on a spherical object. The shortest distance is that of a great circle. Hence, flight paths appeared curved.

I am guessing that would be an airbus? 

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2 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

go ahead and point out to me the ones that were fired "straight up". oh wait, there was no evidence presented in the video to prove any point. 

May I add something? @peace seeker II Most of the atomic/nuclear explosions fired by the US and USSR were fired on the Earth like the Operation Castle series (Bikini Atoll), Chagan, Sedan and Tsar Bomba. Only exception would be Argus I, which was fired into space by the US.

 

2 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

the jorney goes from the west coast of the US to Australia, not australia, past africa, to south america

Yup, anyone who says otherwise has a lack of understanding when it comes to air travel. I know, I been on my fair share of plane trips.

 

2 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

because google is a business, and it would cost money to picture an entire continent, and the ROI is too low?

 

I agree with you on that one, although I do think there is something up with Antarctica but I will discuss this another time.

 

2 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Im a thai boxing instructor with around a decades fighting experience (several of which were in illegal underground prize fights - some shiachatters who used to come watch me fight are probably still floating around this forum) and from a very old school gangster family. you cant do anything to me. 

9 hours ago, peace seeker II said:

Lay off the threats for the both of you, the neither of you can do anything to each other. It is uncivilized, so relax and be groovy. 

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8 minutes ago, Brained said:

ah yeah, the boeing 777 is a special long distance plane. this flies west-to-east though.

the santiago-sydney route is flown by the boeing 747-400, which is another special long distance model. 

I am assuming that the youtube video (and OP) do not know these planes exist. 

 

Edited by DigitalUmmah

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12 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I agree with you on that one, although I do think there is something up with Antarctica but I will discuss this another time.

Fancy making a new thread? Id be interested to hear this. visiting Antarctica has always been on my bucket list

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4 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

leave your threats alone, rocky.

Im a thai boxing instructor with around a decades fighting experience (several of which were in illegal underground prize fights - some shiachatters who used to come watch me fight are probably still floating around this forum) and from a very old school gangster family. you cant do anything to me. 

 

threats?! because i state a fact that you wouldn't dare to say that in real life? because i basically say you wouldn't use rude language to me face-to-face, you say i threaten you? that shows your level of intelligence. maybe too many hits on the head trying to prove your ego in rings? i don't know. real fighters like those of ahlulbayt will respect even an ant, and realize that any human being can harm them if God so wills. Digital, i don't even have to see you to hurt you. Any brother here who complains to God about your language can get you to pay for your karma. 

 

anyway, i wont brag about my combat skills or combative family background like you .. i know that if i am right, God is by my side, and in this way i have gained the deep respect from top ranking shaolin monks, official UFC fighter, ex Muay Thai world champion who'se name surely every Muay Thai fighter knows, and military contractor / special forces instructors. Of course the shaolin fighter and military contractor being by far the most dominant, because they don't fight for some belt or other childish reasons. 

So, anyway, you can join this thread i started and you can post more about yourself there and your cool experiences:

 

maybe you stick to your muay thai and give your attempts to talk scientifically a break.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, peace seeker II said:

threats?! because i state a fact that you wouldn't dare to say that in real life? because i basically say you wouldn't use rude language to me face-to-face, you say i threaten you? that shows your level of intelligence. maybe too many hits on the head trying to prove your ego in rings? i don't know. real fighters like those of ahlulbayt will respect even an ant, and realize that any human being can harm them if God so wills. Digital, i don't even have to see you to hurt you. Any brother here who complains to God about your language can get you to pay for your karma. 

 

anyway, i wont brag about my combat skills or combative family background like you .. i know that if i am right, God is by my side, and in this way i have gained the deep respect from top ranking shaolin monks, official UFC fighter, ex Muay Thai world champion who'se name surely every Muay Thai fighter knows, and military contractor / special forces instructors. Of course the shaolin fighter and military contractor being by far the most dominant, because they don't fight for some belt or other childish reasons. 

So, anyway, you can join this thread i started and you can post more about yourself there and your cool experiences:

 

maybe you stick to your muay thai and give your attempts to talk scientifically a break.

 

 

thats great. What about the rest of my post

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Ok one of these days i have to type the main points that convinced me personally (to continue this thread). Those points were not in the first 10 minutes. Actually i remember only getting convinced after about an hour. The only dilemma is that i feel people who dont bother to watch the source dont deserve my effort to spoon feed them my own experience. Anyway, i think im agreeing with the people who say it's a waste of time. Time will tell.

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On 11/6/2015 at 10:17 AM, Al-Hussayni said:

Bro don't watch too many youtube videos. Problem is, many of us have got into this habit of thinking everything is a conspiracy..especially Muslims. It's flippin ridiculous..

i agree, and the thing is the world looks round from the pictures of it, same for the moon, and pictures taken of the earth from the moon, i have been hearing about this flat earth theory, what do the Imams say about it?

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Top ranking shaolin monks is not an oxymoron. It is indicative of being grand masters within the temple structure and their closeness to the Abott. This is based on their knowledge, experience and maturity. 

And its not bragging when i say they respect me. All im saying is that anyone here would respect me in real life too, and that you all should be respectful. Same counts for me.

 

Regardless of what the thread is,  akhlaq is a priority!

Again ppl posting videos without watching my video. So childish. Seems that most ppl r more interested in defending ideas we were taught than trying to get to the bottom of both sides of the argument.

I like sidnaqs question. Very much!!!!!! What did the imams say???? The quran refers to many skys and one ground .. samawat & ard .. such a question shows that the person is actually considering the arguement and not just blindly rejecting it.

 

For those who do watch the first video for more than 10 minutes. Some of the evidence given is not ultimate proof and some are closer to that. Better watch the whole thing before judging. Otherwise we would only be fooling ourselves.

Thanks

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6 hours ago, peace seeker II said:

Top ranking shaolin monks is not an oxymoron. It is indicative of being grand masters within the temple structure and their closeness to the Abott. This is based on their knowledge, experience and maturity. 

And its not bragging when i say they respect me. All im saying is that anyone here would respect me in real life too, and that you all should be respectful. Same counts for me.

 

Regardless of what the thread is,  akhlaq is a priority!

Again ppl posting videos without watching my video. So childish. Seems that most ppl r more interested in defending ideas we were taught than trying to get to the bottom of both sides of the argument.

I like sidnaqs question. Very much!!!!!! What did the imams say???? The quran refers to many skys and one ground .. samawat & ard .. such a question shows that the person is actually considering the arguement and not just blindly rejecting it.

 

For those who do watch the first video for more than 10 minutes. Some of the evidence given is not ultimate proof and some are closer to that. Better watch the whole thing before judging. Otherwise we would only be fooling ourselves.

Thanks

There is no "proof" presented in the video. Just conjecture. 

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On 1/27/2016 at 9:06 PM, peace seeker II said:

i was hoping that i would bump into people here who could talk on a scientific level like the kids i taught science when they were in 3rd grade and are now getting scholarships and awards from prestigious unis in England for instance. Or perhaps some of the older respectful kids i taught. Or maybe my colleagues at college who could debate scientifically and intelligently!

throwing words like ignorance just shows me your level of intelligence to be frank. i wonder if you'd dare to say that to me if you'd see me in person. i-bet-not!!! that's a cowardly thing to say online and i find that all too often on shiachat. i am writing this for any intelligent individual person who might understand some day. maybe like a message in a bottle.

i don't believe that digital ummah even watched anything as he claims, because if he did, he would actually address anything that is said in that video. instead he throws questions at me while ignoring my proofs. now, why should i let that happen? why should i allow others to ignore my proofs and my videos while i have to answer theirs? who brought their proofs first? i wont even bother to answer any of you until some constructive intelligent rational person comes along. 

 

keep believing all you've been taught guys as much as you like. and gaius! after zuhur knowledge will be incomparable to now. we are living in the dark ages. if the level of science was an alphabet, the level just before imam mahdi will be 2 letters out of 26!  (and you obviously didn't watch the space station video either  )

 

ok enough time on shiachat science section. if i continue talking about science here i would have to treat you all like kids who know nothing about science and make a thread called "Scientific Thinking". I had to take that course, it's amazing!!

 

keep sticking to the ideas and brainwashed preconceptions you've been engrained with :) some people question everything and move on towards zuhur in sha Allah.

 

any person who can disprove the proofs in the videos in the OP can go ahead. otherwise it's pointless discussing. 

 

Well what you have done is listen to an assumption, then take it as a truth. 

You watched a video that presented a series of arguments that suggest a flat earth. However each one of them is false, many were just plain silly. Eg there is a noise on the video of the ISS, this proves that they are in a jet plane and not in space.

What would you do if they presented atheism in the same way? eg there is no God because of x y and z. 

Obviously they will not be able to prove this to be necessarily true, but they will be able to bring some arguments based on assumptions, that some people will take as facts. Im not sure if you are doing this on purpose, but you are highlighting a massive issue within our community and I hope to be addressing this soon, namely the lack of critical thought and skepticism. 

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2 minutes ago, iraqi_shia said:

You watched a video that presented a series of arguments that suggest a flat earth. However each one of them is false, many were just plain silly. Eg there is a noise on the video of the ISS, this proves that they are in a jet plane and not in space.

@OP JFYI the reason that there is "noise" in the ISS is because it is constantly falling towards earth, but its sideways propulsion balances the gravity dragging it downwards towards the earth, keeping it at its current height but moving sideways. 

of course a scientist of your calibre already knew that

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6 minutes ago, Brained said:

So I sat down to watch the video the OP posted. Ain't getting that time of my life back..

I got 10 minutes into it then gave up. OP doesnt realise he shouldnt base his rejection of fairly obvious and provable science on unsourced youtube videos where the narrator conjectures for 2 hours. 

the fact that horizons exist should be proof enough that the earth is round

May Allah guide us all. 

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This flat earth thing is a mass media social experiment being conducted by the government to study our learning and behavior patterns and it also serves other purposes, biggest one being to discredit every unofficial explanation or "conspiracy theory" out there. I find it quite amusing because I see a very few clueless individuals falling for it and getting convinced through drivel. Other conspiracy theories actually provide logical reasoning and scientific evidence in sharp contrast to this one. The benefit to the government and its illusioned servant mass is obvious. Because of the hogwash "flat earth" "theory" they will go on and discredit or disregard everything else which is unofficial, from controlled demolitions of 911 to fake apollo moon landings with the help of the strawman of flat earth. Of course the illusioned or asleep folk won't entertain logical reasoning and scientific evidence either, much like the odd genuinely misguided flat earther out there. For example:

 

 

Edited by Darth Vader

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An addendum to my post above.

There are many government backed conspiracy theories circulating around since a long while. Its just like in the old times if someone didn't want people frequenting some place they would circulate the rumor that its haunted. Its a means to fool people. Here is another example of a government backed conspiracy theory / rumor.

- "Aliens on the moon" "Apollo 20" "Aliens on Mars".

Now that particular topic is very interesting, naturally. But what happens in your mind as you watch and ponder if there was a Apollo 20 is that the lie of the moon landing being real is consolidated. The principle of deception is "to lie so much repeatedly and convincingly that people believe you." Its what they always do. For example when they celebrate Osama's "death" anniversary, and someone not only wrote a book about it but also got slapped on the wrist for "leaking" state secrets by it. Meanwhile, people have forgotten that there never was no body found and for some unexplained reason it was given a burial at sea. People also forgot all the mysterious "leaked" photoshopped photos of Osama's dead body which the government refused to recognize (because they were so badly photoshopped).

But the problem with all harsh truths is that we humans can't handle the truth and we love status quo and tranquility. For instance we will never talk long or often about death and what comes next even though its all very real. The reason is that its in our nature to "hope for the best" and to avoid harsh realities. :D

Edited by Darth Vader

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Salam Alaikum,

 

The Quranic proofs that are leaning towards a flat earth theory:

 

1 - In the Quran the sun, moon and stars are somehow grouped together as being "between" heavens and earth. Heaven and earth are complimentary and in one category (38:66), while they are not treated as heavenly objects, such as sun, moon and stars. (ex. 7:3, 22:18)

 

2. If Sun and Stars are the same thing, then why would Allah make a Chapter called Chapter / Sura of the Sun and a separate one called Sura of the Star?

 

3. According to the Quran heavenly bodies such as Sun, Moon and Stars are mobile and moving, while the heavens and earth are never explained this way. The Sun, Moon and Stars are described as running, floating, rising and declining for instance. Earth and heaven not. (ex. 14:33, 18:86, 18:90, 31:29)

 

4. Earth was created before the 7 heavens (2:29), and what is interesting is that the "lamps" that are commonly understood as heavenly bodies such as stars are supposedly only present in the most earthly level of heaven, also known as the first layer out of 7. (67:5, 41:12). The sun, moon and stars are clearly described as being in the heavens and earth (ex. 22:18)

 

5. Then there is that description, actually descriptions that show us that Allah uses terms that can only be understood with flat, non-spherical shapes:

 

earth spread (ex 13:3)

earth spread Arabic term #2 (ex 51:48)

earth spread Arabic term #3 (ex 71:19)

 

regardless of the countless translators of these words, they are always either related to spreading, or more resonating with horizontal 'like carpet' expansion.

 

6. The mountains are described as stabilizers, or pegs that stop the earth from shaking. (ex 31:10) To me personally i see this not applicable on a spherical earth, as those pegs would not really stop it from moving, other than let's say a carpet.

 

7. Interesting analysis of Quran verses concerning earth. The Jannah or promised paradise is said to be the same size as heavens and earth (3:133). And the heavens and earth are said to become replaced with a new heavens and earth (14:49). To me it means that Paradise will be simply a replaced heavens and earth, or an improved one. And at that time, we will have the whole of creations as our playground in peace and harmony. in sha Allah. And that means that the resurrection is in the same location as here, with a renewed earth (30:25). There is no indication that there are two parallel earths somewhere from the quran anyway. Correct me if i'm wrong.

8. Also notice that every time Allah mentions Heavens and earth, we have earth singular and heavens plural. There is no talk about earths. And again, as mentioned before, according to Quran the earth was created before the 7 heavens (2:29).

 

 

From the above we can conclude that the way all translators of the world understand and interpret the Quran, we have earth as not spherical, rather immobile, while heavenly bodies such as Moon, Sun and stars are moving and "between" the heavens and earth. 

 

We can be sure (unless you prove me wrong, which i would appreciate), that in the Quran there is no evidence of a round world, but quite the opposite. Nor that the sun and stars are the same thing. Or that we are a tiny little ball that is going around a medium sized sun/star, which is one of 70 trillion stars in a galaxy of 70 trillion galaxies of a universe. Rather, there is only talk of one earth, that is spread out and vast, that will one day be crushed and replaced. And that we will be resurrected here on that new earth, under a new heavens. 

 

Please, if you have any hadiths about this let me know


Fi Aman ilah

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On 3/8/2016 at 1:42 AM, peace seeker II said:

8. Also notice that every time Allah mentions Heavens and earth, we have earth singular and heavens plural. There is no talk about earths. And again, as mentioned before, according to Quran the earth was created before the 7 heavens (2:29).

S/A

Very well written and interesting. While all of it was interesting, the verse in 2:29 is the most interesting, even shocking... Exact opposite of what we are told about the creation of the Universe via the big bang i.e. space came into being first and then EEEventually a tiny insignificant piece of dust called earth by chance ended up just the right distance away from the sun ... Thanks for the post.

W/s

Madzi

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Desperate attempts. About verse 2:29. Its not "heavens", that is wrong translation. The Arabic word there is "samaa". Which would be more accurately translated as "skies" or "atmospheres". Of course a planet's atmosphere develops later. Its quite well known that the Earth is most worthless to Allah of all the places (hadith qudsi). How do you explain "Seven heavens" by the way I wonder? Are those seven galaxies? Seven other earths? Seven stop overs in the sky as we "go up"? Truth is you do not know, or rather none of us know. Meanwhile, seven skies make sense.

3e9cd53e4f977e71dba20239d9412286.jpg

On 3/8/2016 at 4:42 AM, peace seeker II said:

2. If Sun and Stars are the same thing, then why would Allah make a Chapter called Chapter / Sura of the Sun and a separate one called Sura of the Star?

Thats a very desperate argument. The Sun is obviously not the same as all the other stars out there for reasons which should be understandable to a child. Its our star, it illuminates our world and is necessary for its survival. While all the other stars are actually quite irrelevant and insignificant to us and our existence.

Now please let go of this silly thing with no legs.It does not befit you to defend it baselessly. Leave that to the shills to whom it belongs.

 

Edited by Darth Vader

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On Tuesday, March 15, 2016 at 2:27 AM, madzi said:

S/A

Very well written and interesting. While all of it was interesting, the verse in 2:29 is the most interesting, even shocking... Exact opposite of what we are told about the creation of the Universe via the big bang i.e. space came into being first and then EEEventually a tiny insignificant piece of dust called earth by chance ended up just the right distance away from the sun ... Thanks for the post.

W/s

Madzi

Walaikum Salaam,

 

I was likewise surprized by a lot of it, especially the part the chronologically the earth was created before the 7 heavens . Subhan Allah. Anyway it seems as you said that our earth is underrated.

 

Thanks!

 

Wasalaam

 

 

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@Darth Vader

Maybe you should change your name to luke skywalker because a good name is the duty of every muslim. Chose a name that resonates with enemies of the dark side. 

 

Anyway i didnt understand much of what you were trying to say, but i think you should check the literal definition of "heaven" in dictionaries

-----------

literary:

the sky, especially perceived as a vault in which the sun, moon, stars, and planets are situated.

"Galileo used a telescope to observe the heavens"

synonyms:the sky, the skies, the upper atmosphere, the stratosphere;

literarythe firmament, the vault of heaven, the blue, the (wide) blue yonder, the welkin, the ether, the empyrean, the azure, the upper regions, the sphere, the celestial sphere

"Galileo used a telescope to observe the heavens"

-------

 

Point is that earth is not a heavenly body according to the quran, like the sun, moon or stars. Ok Luke? Resonates more with 313 and less with anti christ sufiani. 

 

 

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Salam Alaikum,

 

The Quranic proofs that are leaning towards a flat earth theory:

 

1 - In the Quran the sun, moon and stars are somehow grouped together as being "between" heavens and earth. Heaven and earth are complimentary and in one category (38:66), while they are not treated as heavenly objects, such as sun, moon and stars. (ex. 7:3, 22:18)

 

2. If Sun and Stars are the same thing, then why would Allah make a Chapter called Chapter / Sura of the Sun and a separate one called Sura of the Star?

 

3. According to the Quran heavenly bodies such as Sun, Moon and Stars are mobile and moving, while the heavens and earth are never explained this way. The Sun, Moon and Stars are described as running, floating, rising and declining for instance. Earth and heaven not. (ex. 14:33, 18:86, 18:90, 31:29)

 

4. Earth was created before the 7 heavens (2:29), and what is interesting is that the "lamps" that are commonly understood as heavenly bodies such as stars are supposedly only present in the most earthly level of heaven, also known as the first layer out of 7. (67:5, 41:12). The sun, moon and stars are clearly described as being in the heavens and earth (ex. 22:18)

 

5. Then there is that description, actually descriptions that show us that Allah uses terms that can only be understood with flat, non-spherical shapes:

 

earth spread (ex 13:3)

earth spread Arabic term #2 (ex 51:48)

earth spread Arabic term #3 (ex 71:19)

 

regardless of the countless translators of these words, they are always either related to spreading, or more resonating with horizontal 'like carpet' expansion.

 

6. The mountains are described as stabilizers, or pegs that stop the earth from shaking. (ex 31:10) To me personally i see this not applicable on a spherical earth, as those pegs would not really stop it from moving, other than let's say a carpet.

 

7. Interesting analysis of Quran verses concerning earth. The Jannah or promised paradise is said to be the same size as heavens and earth (3:133). And the heavens and earth are said to become replaced with a new heavens and earth (14:49). To me it means that Paradise will be simply a replaced heavens and earth, or an improved one. And at that time, we will have the whole of creations as our playground in peace and harmony. in sha Allah. And that means that the resurrection is in the same location as here, with a renewed earth (30:25). There is no indication that there are two parallel earths somewhere from the quran anyway. Correct me if i'm wrong.

8. Also notice that every time Allah mentions Heavens and earth, we have earth singular and heavens plural. There is no talk about earths. And again, as mentioned before, according to Quran the earth was created before the 7 heavens (2:29).

 

 

From the above we can conclude that the way all translators of the world understand and interpret the Quran, we have earth as not spherical, rather immobile, while heavenly bodies such as Moon, Sun and stars are moving and "between" the heavens and earth. 

 

We can be sure (unless you prove me wrong, which i would appreciate), that in the Quran there is no evidence of a round world, but quite the opposite. Nor that the sun and stars are the same thing. Or that we are a tiny little ball that is going around a medium sized sun/star, which is one of 70 trillion stars in a galaxy of 70 trillion galaxies of a universe. Rather, there is only talk of one earth, that is spread out and vast, that will one day be crushed and replaced. And that we will be resurrected here on that new earth, under a new heavens. 

 

Please, if you have any hadiths about this let me know


Fi Aman ilah 

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Salam Alaikum,

 

This following text is originally from another thread i started, and decided to look into it from a Quranic point of view ( other than from a scientific point of view ). Hope some people can use this chance to challenge their ideas and knowledge base .. in a positive / open minded way.

If we were to delete everything we know and were taught about this earth, and only depended on the Quran ( i still haven't found hadiths talking specifically about this ), then according to the descriptions there, our earth is the only earth, while it is in not round, but rather flat and spread out. It is immobile, and will be "replaced" at one point in the future, as well as the heavens. Anyway, here is the post and enjoy:

 

i learned something(s) new, i hope you do too ..

 

wasalaam

 

Salam Alaikum,

 

The Quranic proofs that are leaning towards a flat earth theory:

 

1 - In the Quran the sun, moon and stars are somehow grouped together as being "between" heavens and earth. Heaven and earth are complimentary and in one category (38:66), while they are not treated as heavenly objects, such as sun, moon and stars. (ex. 7:3, 22:18)

 

2. If Sun and Stars are the same thing, then why would Allah make a Chapter called Chapter / Sura of the Sun and a separate one called Sura of the Star?

 

3. According to the Quran heavenly bodies such as Sun, Moon and Stars are mobile and moving, while the heavens and earth are never explained this way. The Sun, Moon and Stars are described as running, floating, rising and declining for instance. Earth and heaven not. (ex. 14:33, 18:86, 18:90, 31:29)

 

4. Earth was created before the 7 heavens (2:29), and what is interesting is that the "lamps" that are commonly understood as heavenly bodies such as stars are supposedly only present in the most earthly level of heaven, also known as the first layer out of 7. (67:5, 41:12). The sun, moon and stars are clearly described as being in the heavens and earth (ex. 22:18)

 

5. Then there is that description, actually descriptions that show us that Allah uses terms that can only be understood with flat, non-spherical shapes:

 

earth spread (ex 13:3)

earth spread Arabic term #2 (ex 51:48)

earth spread Arabic term #3 (ex 71:19)

 

regardless of the countless translators of these words, they are always either related to spreading, or more resonating with horizontal 'like carpet' expansion.

 

6. The mountains are described as stabilizers, or pegs that stop the earth from shaking. (ex 31:10) To me personally i see this not applicable on a spherical earth, as those pegs would not really stop it from moving, other than let's say a carpet.

 

7. Interesting analysis of Quran verses concerning earth. The Jannah or promised paradise is said to be the same size as heavens and earth (3:133). And the heavens and earth are said to become replaced with a new heavens and earth (14:49). To me it means that Paradise will be simply a replaced heavens and earth, or an improved one. And at that time, we will have the whole of creations as our playground in peace and harmony. in sha Allah. And that means that the resurrection is in the same location as here, with a renewed earth (30:25). There is no indication that there are two parallel earths somewhere from the quran anyway. Correct me if i'm wrong.

 

8. Also notice that every time Allah mentions Heavens and earth, we have earth singular and heavens plural. There is no talk about earths. And again, as mentioned before, according to Quran the earth was created before the 7 heavens (2:29).

 

From the above we can conclude that the way all translators of the world understand and interpret the Quran, we have earth as not spherical, rather immobile, while heavenly bodies such as Moon, Sun and stars are moving and "between" the heavens and earth. 

 

We can be sure (unless you prove me wrong, which i would appreciate), that in the Quran there is no evidence of a round world, but quite the opposite. Nor that the sun and stars are the same thing. Or that we are a tiny little ball that is going around a medium sized sun/star, which is one of 70 trillion stars in a galaxy of 70 trillion galaxies of a universe. Rather, there is only talk of one earth, that is spread out and vast, that will one day be crushed and replaced. And that we will be resurrected here on that new earth, under a new heavens. 

 

Please, if you have any hadiths about this let me know

 

Fi Aman ilah 

 

from a scientific point of view ..

 

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1 hour ago, peace seeker II said:

decided to look into it from a Quranic point of view

The Quranic view does not conflict the scientific view this verse proves all your speculations on this flat earth theory wrong:

33- It is He who created the night and the day,
and the sun, and the moon; each of them floating in an orbit.

Link/source:http://www.quranmiracles.com/2011/03/all-afloat-in-orbits/

Also when it says the Earth is spread out like a carpet, a carpet can be shaped across a 3 dimensional surface try cutting carpet pieces and shaping them on a square or sphere.

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You have posted this exact topic over and over. Please explain to us why it is so important to you that you preach on this matter to try to convert others to your way of thinking? Take it up on a science discussion board or start your own forum for discussion of your new flat earth religion.

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