[TRASH PIT]Flat Earth

[peace seeker II]

@Enlightened Follower

 

Thank you for your input, although i would prefer you saying the reasons in your own words.

 

I briefly read through your linked text, and found just one supposed evidence that states that the word used for "all" in reference to night, day, sun and moon is used for more than two .. (i know it's confusing but maybe you can explain it better) . So it takes for granted that only the sun and moon are addressed, therefore the third must be the earth. First of all thats an assumption that could be used in reference to stars. Secondly the way i see it, it is in reference to 

 

1- day

2- night

3-moon

4-sun 

 

Here copief from that website.

 

33- It is He who created the night and the day,
and the sun, and the moon; each of them floating in an orbit.
(21- The Prophets, 33)

The word we translated as “each of them” is “kullu” in Arabic. Suffixes called “tasniya” are used in Arabic when the sentence defines two objects. In the verse reference is made to the motion of two celestial bodies, namely the sun and the moon. However, the reason why “tasniya” is not used indicates that there should be more than two objects. If we suppose that the night and the day take place on the earth, the other object should be the earth. The Arabic word “falak” is used in Arabic to denote the orbit traced by stars and planets.

[peace seeker II]

@notme

Why so defensive? Convert to what?

 

This topic is purely about quran, and hadiths are welcome too. Those are Islamic proofs, so no need to convert. Instead of accusing me of starting a new religion, why dont you debate and show us that there is any proof from quran of a round "planet" earth.

Try to be objective here.

 

And Quran discussions arent really science are they?

[peace seeker II]

Just to make things clear: 

our shehada to be muslim is

La ilah ilAllah wamuhamad Rasul Allah

There is no 'wal ard kawkab metdawar' ( .. and the earth is a round planet)

 

So no takfirism against me just because of my spacial discoveries please. We can be muslim and have different opinions here about earth theories please. 

[Reza]

Edited March 26, 2016 by magma

[notme]

I am not saying you are not Muslim. I am saying that denying science is not part of Islam, yet you treat it as if it is very important, even approaching the importance of a religion. I also wonder why this is so important to you. Can you explain its importance?

If one is presented proof and he denies it, there really isn't any more that can be said. So what do you want to discuss that hasn't already been discussed? 

 

[laithAlIRAQI]

48 minutes ago, magma said:

Looks very flat to me.

[Enlightened Follower]

1 hour ago, peace seeker II said:

This topic is purely about quran, and hadiths are welcome too. Those are Islamic proofs, so no need to convert. Instead of accusing me of starting a new religion, why dont you debate and show us that there is any proof from quran of a round "planet" earth.

By promoting these theories you will convince people Muslims are ignorant and science deniers please don't start this trend additionally Muslim scholars and theologians since the early days of Islam knew these verses better than you and never put forward the theory the "Earth is flat" and they were certainly more religious and knowledgeable than you.

Additionally how are you receiving internet and satellite TV (hint its because the Earth is not flat)?

[Enlightened Follower]

1 hour ago, peace seeker II said:

So no takfirism against me just because of my spacial discoveries please. We can be muslim and have different opinions here about earth theories please. 

It is not takifirism Muslims are to forbid what is wrong and incorrect and quite frankly that is what you commit when you say absurd things like "the Earth is flat"

[Enlightened Follower]

1 hour ago, peace seeker II said:

The Arabic word “falak” is used in Arabic to denote the orbit traced by stars and planets.

Hence indicating a spherical planet!

[peace seeker II]

If you read my first post on this thread you will find a link to the science section showing that scientists are debating about it. Not every scientist believes in a round earth, which you can verify by a quick google search.

 

I was looking forwards to people discussing what seems clear to me from the quran. 

 

It is wrong according to you. That is your right to believe, but it is not right to claim i am starting a "new religion" because i believe otherwise about the shape and dimension of earth. I am a muslim and my Quran is that of Islam.

[Enlightened Follower]

47 minutes ago, peace seeker II said:

I am a muslim and my Quran is that of Islam.

Yes but your interpretations are incorrect and misapplied, also as I have said you are going against 1400 years of what Muslim scholars and scientists viewed those verses to mean.

[peace seeker II]

In your opinion they are incorrect. Prove me wrong. I am simply applying the undisputed translations. If you look at my post above you will see the truth. For instance that there is a surat sun and surat star. How can there be two chapters of the same thing? There is no evidence from the quran that they are the same thing. Same with all other "interpretations". Tell me which one of my above points exactly are wrong, and why. Thanks.

[peace seeker II]

And what concerns the word falaq:

 

Is there a verse talking about the earth and falaq, or is it in relation to sun and star? Or moon?

[Ibn Al-Shahid]

Whoooooooops!

[The Green Knight]

On 3/23/2016 at 1:55 AM, peace seeker II said:

@Darth Vader

Maybe you should change your name to luke skywalker because a good name is the duty of every muslim. Chose a name that resonates with enemies of the dark side. 

 

Anyway i didnt understand much of what you were trying to say, but i think you should check the literal definition of "heaven" in dictionaries

-----------

literary:

the sky, especially perceived as a vault in which the sun, moon, stars, and planets are situated.

"Galileo used a telescope to observe the heavens"

synonyms:the sky, the skies, the upper atmosphere, the stratosphere;

literarythe firmament, the vault of heaven, the blue, the (wide) blue yonder, the welkin, the ether, the empyrean, the azure, the upper regions, the sphere, the celestial sphere

"Galileo used a telescope to observe the heavens"

-------

 

Point is that earth is not a heavenly body according to the quran, like the sun, moon or stars. Ok Luke? Resonates more with 313 and less with anti christ sufiani. 

 

 

LOL Really? I guess you are one of those know-it-alls who can not be corrected.

Then He turned to heaven when it was smoke. In two days He determined them as seven heavens and revealed, in every heaven, its own mandate. (Qur'an, 41:11-12)

Seven "heavens" Mr. Galileo,

1. Troposphere

2. Stratosphere

3. Mesosphere

4. Thermosphere

5. Exosphere

6. Ionosphere

7. Magnetosphere

All of them have their own "mandates" or functions.

 

The Earth is Round, Mr Muslim Copernicus!:

After that He smoothed out the earth. (Qur'an, 79:30)

In the above verse, the word "daha" is used in the original Arabic. It, translated as "smoothed out," comes from the word "dahv," meaning "to spread." Although the word "dahv" also means to cover or to set out, the meaning of the verb is more than just a prosaic setting out, since it describes setting out in a circle.

The concept of roundness is also present in other words derived from "dahv." For example, the word "dahv" also refers to children dropping a ball into a hole in the ground, games involving throwing stones into holes and games played with walnuts. Words derived from that root are also used for an ostrich making a nest, cleaning stones from where it is about to lie down, the place where it lays its eggs and the egg itself.

He has created the Heavens and the Earth for Truth. He wraps the night up in the day, and wraps the day up in the night. (Qur'an, 39:5)

The Arabic word which is translated as "to wrap" in the above verse is "takwir." In English, it means "to make one thing lap over another, folded up as a garment that is laid away." For instance, in Arabic dictionaries this word is used for the action of wrapping one thing around another, in the way that a turban is put on. The information given in the verse about the day and the night wrapping each other up includes accurate information about the shape of the world. This can be true only if the Earth is round.

We made the sky a preserved and protected roof yet still they turn away from Our Signs. (Qur'an, 21:32)

How was Iron sent down?

And We also sent down iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind… (Qur'an, 57:25)

Why didn't the dome shatter? Or was it sent down with a teleporter beam from star trek? Why is the moon round?

Above all, why do you have no evidence for a flat earth?

Stop embarrassing yourself, you boy.

[The Green Knight]

This stupidity should be contained in to a single thread.

[peace seeker II]

Boy? If I'm a boy then you're a little sperm! I'm most likely older than you and it's true: you did not correct me

 

First of all the verse you posted proves my point. It shows that earth was created before the heavens. How can earth be a heavenly body if that is the case.

The preceding verse says:

And He placed the earth firmly etc etc 41:10

Then!! He directed Himself to the heavens while it was smoke 41:11

 

So the sky was smoke first at the time when immobile earth was stable and there already.

 

Thanks for proving me right

 

And your talk about troposphere etc is totally irrelevant as it is not mentioned in the quran, so you can not proove the connection. Anyway I don't see any point in this argument anyway as those layers can exist along the dome shaped firmament of a flat earth anyway.

 

As for your copy pasted text that I found rather confusing, it talks about night and day wrapping into each other in a supposedly circular way. Again this does not address the actual earth, rather the path of the sun around the top of the flat earth obviously. What does the wrapping of day and night have to do with the shape of the earth?

 

Ok

 

Why didn't the dome shatter? Do you think the dome has to be made out of glass? 

 

You didn't address a single one of the proofs, then you say I have no evidence.

 

Anyway I'm born in 1400. When are you born? Always the same :

 

When people with big false pride fail to be right, they become rude. And the rudeness does not reflect well on intelligence or logic 

 

[peace seeker II]

Ok so nobody has been able to actually prove otherwise 

 

If you are going to resort to insulting and profanity you've lost the battle

 

Islam is about peace and knowledge, and the ability to debate respectfully calmly and humbly. With these five traits you can have a better grip on the pillars of islam

Bear this in mind when discussing with a fellow brother

 

No insults mocking or disrespect 

 

No words like boy stupid moronic etc especially debating the interpretions of the noble quran

Peace be upon you

[The Green Knight]

28 minutes ago, peace seeker II said:

dome shaped firmament of a flat earth anyway.

Why is it shaped like a dome? And what is it made of if its not something transparent like a glass then what is the material? See, you have no evidence in essence also because your flart earth theory is incompatible with all reality. The seasons, even your Galileo's telescope viewing planets like Jupiter. You have never used a telescope and are completely ignorant about astronomy I bet. Did you know that even the stars and other planets rise and set? Then are they also orbiting the earth? You ignorant boy.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Darth Vader

[The Green Knight]

I can not respect ignorant and insignificant self styled theories being laden upon my holy book while it does not endorse your nonsensical, baseless and prodigal view and instead clearly says that the earth is round and the sun and moon have orbits which conforms to astronomy. You have been given plenty of rebuttals. You have been shown your errors. Yet you keep preaching your insanity all alone. Or perhaps you are invalid.

[peace seeker II]

Hah still going on with your insults I see. You are just exposing yourself and your arguments are not even arguments to start with. No surprise there. Rude people aren't known to be the smartest of people 

 

And how seriously can one take a guy posing as darth vador in an islamic forum

[notme]

1. Horizons are curved. 

2. Other objects we can see in the sky at night, especially with binoculars or telescope are spheres and we can see them move across an ecliptic, changing position with hour and with season.

3. People have travelled all the way around the world in ships or airplanes. If the distances are not as they measure on a sphere, the travel must have been either very fast or very slow at certain parts. Are all pilots and sailors in on the conspiracy? Or is there a time/space warp in these areas to make the world appear approximately spherical?

[peace seeker II]

More insults with no substance 

 

How many proofs? Zero 

 

Shows me more that I'm right with your attempts at provoking me with your rudeness while you haven't addressed a single bit of evidence

 

Typical 

[peace seeker II]

I've explained already that it's easy to fool people with GPS and false mapping systems

 

The horizon is also round from an ants perspective too from 10 meters away which is not related to round earth either

 

There are experiments that show telescopes reveal boats on the horizon that vanished to the eye

 

So if it went round the earth then telescopes should make no difference

 

In the video they actually show that there r websites you can access that show all flights happening at any given moment» free and open websites that you all can access» and that the planes in the southern hemisphere disappear 

 

The maker of the video asked us to verify it and send complain letters to US government and an explanation of it

 

Personally I believe it could be possible and I don't trust what we are being told 

[peace seeker II]

I don't think the average pilot or captain is in on it

 

Mankind has been conditioned very well to be non thinking non questioning slaves who think conspiracies don't exist

 

The people ruling this earth are moral people to them

 

Sheep

[notme]

5 minutes ago, peace seeker II said:

I don't think the average pilot or captain is in on it

 

Mankind has been conditioned very well to be non thinking non questioning slaves who think conspiracies don't exist

So just nobody noticed that it either takes much longer or much shorter time than it should according to the maps? Nobody noticed?

[peace seeker II]

Actually it all makes sense according to many people who calculated distances that the real earth map is that of the UN

 

There are some travel paths that logically should be taken according to the globe model but are never taken

 

One such example has been discussed earlier this thread I believe and there are other examples 

 

 

[Reza]

Threads merged.

[Enlightened Follower]

On 3/26/2016 at 1:17 PM, peace seeker II said:

In your opinion they are incorrect. Prove me wrong.

Not in "my opinion", in the opinion of 1400 years of Muslim scholarship! If you want to rant off on absurd and unorthodox opinions I think ISIS, the Saudis, and Al Qaeda would praise as they have also gone against the traditional, logically debated, orthodox form of Islam.

Your "opinion" is the very definition of Jahillya itself, 4000 years of science have proven you wrong ever since the Ancient Iraqis/Babylonians were able to calculate the distance of planets.

Guess what? If all other objects surrounding are planet are spherical, guess what are planet has to be? (Hint it's not flat) Spherical!

We make all sorts of unscientific conspiracy theories, that doesn't make them true!

I will give you an example:

Poison and heavy metals are good for you, so is jumping off a cliff pfft! Don't listen to what scientists have to say so what if everyone says poison and heavy metals are toxic, who cares if jumping off a cliff will kill you, it's all a conspiracy theory. (Your logic summed up in one example).

[Enlightened Follower]

1 hour ago, peace seeker II said:

Mankind has been conditioned very well to be non thinking non questioning slaves who think conspiracies don't exist

 

The people ruling this earth are moral people to them

 

Sheep

You're right I guess I'll invent a conspiracy theory of how drugs and alcohol are actually good for you. Then you'll have to abide by my conspiracy theory. See the inconsistent fallacious logic you are using? 

Edited March 28, 2016 by Enlightened Follower

[Enlightened Follower]

1 hour ago, peace seeker II said:

Personally I believe it could be possible and I don't trust what we are being told 

Then how can you trust anything you believe if you are going to this level of absurdity?

[Enlightened Follower]

1 hour ago, peace seeker II said:

I don't think the average pilot or captain is in on it

You need proof to validate claims that is how science is established, if you go off half-truths and nonsense you'll end up with conspiracy theories.

[Enlightened Follower]

2 hours ago, peace seeker II said:

And how seriously can one take a guy posing as darth vador in an islamic forum

That is an Ad-Hominem Attack logical fallacy, his profile picture has no bearing on what he says those two things are independent of each other.

[Enlightened Follower]

2 hours ago, peace seeker II said:

No words like boy stupid moronic etc especially debating the interpretions of the noble quran

Peace be upon you

There is no debate, this is established like the laws of gravity.

Science works, are you going to think, "Oh yeah gravity must also be a conspiracy(*jumps off cliff*), Ugh you were right guys science works!"

[Enlightened Follower]

On 3/26/2016 at 1:17 PM, peace seeker II said:

I am simply applying the undisputed translations.

No my friend, you are applying your own cherry pickings.