Shia becomes an atheist?

[Hayhat MinnaZilla]

Salam everyone,

So a (shia) friend of mine has been recently watching videos about atheism and is now asking me question like why is shia islam right.. stuff like that.

He is now asking me why Shia islam is right out of the thousand religions in the world and what about everyone else who was born as Christian, Hindu etc.

I do not have enough knowledge, and I hope you guys can help this person.

[Enlightened Follower]

3 minutes ago, Hayhat MinnaZilla said:

Salam everyone,

So a (shia) friend of mine has been recently watching videos about atheism and is now asking me question like why is shia islam right.. stuff like that.

He is now asking me why Shia islam is right out of the thousand religions in the world and what about everyone else who was born as Christian, Hindu etc.

I do not have enough knowledge, and I hope you guys can help this person.

Tell him that in Islam Non Muslims can enter heaven given they are just.

[power]

18 minutes ago, Enlightened Follower said:

Tell him that in Islam Non Muslims can enter heaven given they are just.

Thats quite a broad statement you are making. Hindus for an example;  they can enter heaven is this correct?

[DigitalUmmah]

44 minutes ago, Hayhat MinnaZilla said:

He is now asking me why Shia islam is right out of the thousand religions in the world and what about everyone else who was born as Christian, Hindu etc.

It is natural human nature to try and live a moral life. it is human nature for example, if we see a car accident, to stop and run to help, no matter what the race or background or religion of the victim.

the best morals we can find, are examples of the teachings of the Ahlulbayt (as). these are the morals we try and copy. 

if there is a god, and he is just (aadil), we will be rewarded

if there is a god, and he is not just (aadil), we will be punished regardless of what we do

if there is no god, at least we have lived a moral life. 

for those who do not follow the ahlulbayt (as), but live good lives, the quran says:

[2.62] Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve

 

19 minutes ago, power said:

Hindus for an example;  they can enter heaven is this correct?

tricky question. shirk is the unforgivable sin, but at the same time, we believe in adalah of Allah. if the complete hujjah of islam has not been presented to a human, is it their fault they are not muslim?

no one can answer but Allah, but I doubt Allah will cast good, non muslim people into hell for all eternity

[Endtimes]

1 hour ago, Hayhat MinnaZilla said:

Salam everyone,

So a (shia) friend of mine has been recently watching videos about atheism and is now asking me question like why is shia islam right.. stuff like that.

He is now asking me why Shia islam is right out of the thousand religions in the world and what about everyone else who was born as Christian, Hindu etc.

I do not have enough knowledge, and I hope you guys can help this person.

Wasalam

Tell him there is no other religions, they are all one (Islam from Adam a.s to Khatim Mohammad s.a.w) ...but Shayton misguides people and people divide religion for their or benefit. Basically all the prophets/messengers bring the same Message, to worship Allah, to believe in his Prophets and Messengers, to believe in his Angels,  to believe in doing good and stay away from evil. To give charity and believe in the hereafter. Do not make partners with Allah, because Allah is the absolute One. All Prophets were Muslims, a Muslim is someone who submits him/herself to the will and command of God. How do we submit to the command/Will of God? By Obeying the Messengers/Prophets of Allah. One of the Prophets/Messengers a.s contradicted each other, as a matter of fact, they conformed one another.  Ahlul Bayt a.s are the true followers of Mohammad s.a.w (truest and pure Muslims) and anybody who follow (Shias) of Ahlul bayt a.s are the true Muslims because obey the last Prophet and Messenger, Mohammad s.a.w. We are living at the end times, Shayton will bring a lot of doubts in our minds, that's why we need to read the Holy Quran and pray our namaz on time so keep away Shayton from us.

My suggestion to this brother is, Repent, start praying on time, read at least 50 ayats of Holy Quran and always keep asking Allah swt for guidance, In Shah Allah he will be guided.

Lets pray to Allah swt to have mercy on this brother and guide him on the right path In Shah Allah. Ameen.

Wasalam.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Endtimes

[Endtimes]

38 minutes ago, power said:

Thats quite a broad statement you are making. Hindus for an example;  they can enter heaven is this correct?

Do you think only Shias go to heaven?

[Reza]

Off topic posts removed.

[Enlightened Follower]

2 hours ago, power said:

Thats quite a broad statement you are making. Hindus for an example;  they can enter heaven is this correct?

If they are Vedic Hindus then they are monotheists.

Additionally their parents raised them as Hindu and what if they grew up not being aware of Islam?

"Whoever goes right, then he goes right only for the benefit of his ownself. And whoever goes astray, then he goes astray to his own loss. No one laden with burdens can bear another's burden. And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning)." (Surah Al Israa 17:15)

[Sumerian]

2 hours ago, Enlightened Follower said:

Tell him that in Islam Non Muslims can enter heaven given they are just.

You totally made that up

[Sumerian]

1 hour ago, Endtimes said:

Do you think only Shias go to heaven?

Yes. Only the ignorant non-Shi'a can go to Heaven. Those who are not ignorant and have heard about Islam or Tashayyu but followed their own religions/sects, too bad for them. They will see the wrath of Allah.

[Reza]

^ I was waiting for another one of your "XYZ is going to hell" posts. 

Explain to me this, if heaven or hell is so cut and dry, black and white, why the need for barzakh, or even Qiyamat? Just put people in heaven or hell immediately after death and be done with it, if it's all a forgone conclusion already. 

[Endtimes]

10 minutes ago, E.L King said:

Yes. Only the ignorant non-Shi'a can go to Heaven. Those who are not ignorant and have heard about Islam or Tashayyu but followed their own religions/sects, too bad for them. They will see the wrath of Allah.

Then you have a lot of learning to do my brother. I have seen more pious Righteous , non Muslims than our own Practicing Shias, who have done more than most  Shia person could ever do. Here is a good example, Rachel Corrie,  a 21 year old Christian American who  gave her life for the cause of God by protecting a Palestinian home from Israeli bulldozers. Please don't tell me she will go to hell! If that's your mentality then you don't know the All Merciful Allah.

[Sumerian]

32 minutes ago, Endtimes said:

Then you have a lot of learning to do my brother. I have seen more pious Righteous , non Muslims than our own Practicing Shias, who have done more than most  Shia person could ever do. Here is a good example, Rachel Corrie,  a 21 year old Christian American who  gave her life for the cause of God by protecting a Palestinian home from Israeli bulldozers. Please don't tell me she will go to hell! If that's your mentality then you don't know the All Merciful Allah.

Actually she will not be allowed in Heaven. And many Verses of the Holy Qur'an explain why:

Indeed, those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers - upon them will be the curse of Allah and of the angels and the people, all together, Abiding eternally therein. The punishment will not be lightened for them, nor will they be reprieved. (Al-Baqarah)

Indeed, those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers - never would the [whole] capacity of the earth in gold be accepted from one of them if he would [seek to] ransom himself with it. For those there will be a painful punishment, and they will have no helpers. (Al-Imran)

And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers. (Al-Imran)

_________

And I can bring more Verses. In fact the Hadiths tell us about a man from Bani Israel, a kafir, who use to help his neighbour who was a believer, he was still not allowed in Heaven, and he is going to be in Hell, the only difference is he will have clay surrounding him which will protect him from the Fire. 

As for the sects, the Hadith tells us the Ummah will split into 73 sects, only one will survive. The rest are in the Fire. And the Sahih Hadith says without Wilaya your deeds are not accepted by Allah. And the Sahih Hadith says whoever dies without an Imam dies the death of Jahilliya, basically the death of kufr.

Edited December 6, 2016 by E.L King

[Endtimes]

30 minutes ago, E.L King said:

Actually she will not be allowed in Heaven. And many Verses of the Holy Qur'an explain why:

Indeed, those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers - upon them will be the curse of Allah and of the angels and the people, all together, Abiding eternally therein. The punishment will not be lightened for them, nor will they be reprieved. (Al-Baqarah)

Indeed, those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers - never would the [whole] capacity of the earth in gold be accepted from one of them if he would [seek to] ransom himself with it. For those there will be a painful punishment, and they will have no helpers. (Al-Imran)

And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers. (Al-Imran)

_________

And I can bring more Verses. In fact the Hadiths tell us about a man from Bani Israel, a kafir, who use to help his neighbour who was a believer, he was still not allowed in Heaven, and he is going to be in Hell, the only difference is he will have clay surrounding him which will protect him from the Fire. 

As for the sects, the Hadith tells us the Ummah will split into 73 sects, only one will survive. The rest are in the Fire. And the Sahih Hadith says without Wilaya your deeds are not accepted by Allah. And the Sahih Hadith says whoever dies without an Imam dies the death of Jahilliya, basically the death of kufr.

You are wrong my brother.

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ وَالَّذِينَ هَادُواْ وَالنَّصَارَى وَالصَّابِئِينَ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ

الآخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحاً فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلاَ خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلاَ هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ {2:62

002:062 Khan	:	Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve

 

[Sumerian]

@Endtimes

It's good to use Qur'anic Verses without knowing their tafsir. Shaykh Nasir Makarem Al-Shirazi said some of the misguiders have attempted to use this Ayah to make a case that good deeds are accepted no matter what religion you are. He refutes this belief here:

http://www.hodaalquran.com/getdetails.php?sec=0&id=1996

 

Edited December 19, 2016 by magma
Replaced quote with tag

[Gaius I. Caesar]

@E.L King

Better not to judge and assume anything about anyone when it is Allah (swt) that knows who is truly going to heaven and not mere mortals like you.

And as for hadiths, please cite the sources when you quote. That way people can research it and know that what you quote is legit and in our hadith books. 

If people are not your brothers in faith, then they are your brothers in humanity and they will judged by the Merciful.

Edited December 19, 2016 by magma
Replaced quote with tag

[Endtimes]

9 minutes ago, E.L King said:

It's good to use Qur'anic Verses without knowing their tafsir. Shaykh Nasir Makarem Al-Shirazi said some of the misguiders have attempted to use this Ayah to make a case that good deeds are accepted no matter what religion you are. He refutes this belief here:

http://www.hodaalquran.com/getdetails.php?sec=0&id=1996

 

Sorry brother, I don't read or speak Arabic. I wish I could. So let me understand this by your understanding of Holy Quran and Allah swt: Almost 8 Billion human beings on earth today, the most Shias are around 300 millions probably out of thoese 300 millions half don't even practice or if they do, they are illiterates and don't understand Islam fully. So by your definition, 7.7 Billion of human being will go to hell and 300 million will go to heaven?

I found that verse pretty self explanatory, I don't know how clear you want Allah to be about the believers.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Endtimes

[Sumerian]

2 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Better not to judge and assume anything about anyone when it is Allah (swt) that knows who is truly going to heaven and not mere mortals like you.

And as for hadiths, please cite the sources when you quote. That way people can research it and know that what you quote is legit and in our hadith books. 

If people are not your brothers in faith, then they are your brothers in humanity and they will judged by the Merciful.

1) I am not judging the Holy Qur'an is. 

2) Allah (SWT) told us who is going to Hell and Heaven through His Book and through His Messenger - and the successors of His Messenger have also told us about this.

3) Why sure, I will cite the sources insha Allah, in a seperate post - just wait for it.  Patience is part of Iman.

[Engineer73]

4 hours ago, Hayhat MinnaZilla said:

a (shia) friend of mine has been recently watching videos about atheism and is now asking me question like why is shia islam right.. stuff like that.

Ask him the reason of his regression. He was believing that "There is no god but Allah", now he starts believing "There is no god" .

What caused this regression in his belief? Why he understand there is no creator?

 

[Engineer73]

4 hours ago, Hayhat MinnaZilla said:

why is shia islam right.. stuff like that.

Brother, how many Islams are there? Do Shia Islam has a book other than Quran? 

[Sumerian]

7 minutes ago, Endtimes said:

Sorry brother, I don't read or speak Arabic. I wish I could. So let me understand this by your understanding of Holy Quran and Allah swt: Almost 8 Billion human beings on earth today, the most Shias are around 300 millions probably out of thoese 300 millions half don't even practice or if they do, they are illiterates and don't understand Islam fully. So by your definition, 7.7 Billion of human being will go to hell and 300 million will go to heaven?

Why is that hard to fathom? We are told many stories in the Holy Qur'an how entire peoples rejected the Prophets (S) and how only a few believed. Like the story of Prophet Nuh (AS) - as only a few believed.

[Ibn Al-Shahid]

1 minute ago, E.L King said:

Why is that hard to fathom? We are told many stories in the Holy Qur'an how entire peoples rejected the Prophets (S) and how only a few believed. Like the story of Prophet Nuh (AS) - as only a few believed.

This is very different. Those people saw the miracles and heard the message directly, yet they refused it.

[Sumerian]

7 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

This is very different. Those people saw the miracles and heard the message directly, yet they refused it.

That's not the point though, the point is many millions of people in this world have rejected Islam knowingly. Now - will some kuffar go to Heaven? Yes, like I said, only the ignorant who haven't heard of Islam (due to extreme ignorance) or are not allowed to hear of it, like living under some Communist Regimes.

Otherwise people are not excused if they could have searched for the truth but chose not to.

Edited December 6, 2016 by E.L King

[Reza]

My question wasn't addressed. Interesting!

[Enlightened Follower]

1 minute ago, magma said:

My question wasn't addressed. Interesting!

@E.L King seems to be a Shia Salafi or Shia equivalent.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Enlightened Follower

[Enlightened Follower]

1 hour ago, E.L King said:

Actually she will not be allowed in Heaven. And many Verses of the Holy Qur'an explain why:

Indeed, those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers - upon them will be the curse of Allah and of the angels and the people, all together, Abiding eternally therein. The punishment will not be lightened for them, nor will they be reprieved. (Al-Baqarah)

Indeed, those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers - never would the [whole] capacity of the earth in gold be accepted from one of them if he would [seek to] ransom himself with it. For those there will be a painful punishment, and they will have no helpers. (Al-Imran)

And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers. (Al-Imran)

Those verses apply to people who reject faith(i.e. have had a chance to be presented Islam and it's proofs and then rejected them) not to those exposed to negative news media against Islam or those who have not yet heard the message.

[Gaius I. Caesar]

9 minutes ago, Enlightened Follower said:

@E.L King seems to be a Shia Salafi or Shia equivalent.

I don't think so but it sure amazes me how similar they are. :/  Really disappointing...

[Engineer73]

2 hours ago, magma said:

Just put people in heaven or hell immediately after death and be done with it, if it's all a forgone conclusion already. 

You mean like this:

Surah Muhammad, Verse 27:

فَكَيْفَ إِذَا تَوَفَّتْهُمُ الْمَلَائِكَةُ يَضْرِبُونَ وُجُوهَهُمْ وَأَدْبَارَهُمْ

But how will it be when the angels cause them to die smiting their backs.

(English - Shakir)

And like this:

Surah Al-Kahf, Verse 105:

أُولَٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا بِآيَاتِ رَبِّهِمْ وَلِقَائِهِ فَحَبِطَتْ أَعْمَالُهُمْ فَلَا نُقِيمُ لَهُمْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَزْنًا

These are they who disbelieve in the communications of their Lord and His meeting, so their deeds become null, and therefore We will not set up a balance for them on the day of resurrection.

(English - Shakir)

 

 

[Engineer73]

11 minutes ago, Enlightened Follower said:

Those verses apply to people who reject faith(i.e. have had a chance to be presented Islam and it's proofs and then rejected them) not to those exposed to negative news media against Islam or those who have not yet heard the message.

How about these two verses, and you can ponder on them briefly  :

Surah An-Najm, Verse 39:

وَأَن لَّيْسَ لِلْإِنسَانِ إِلَّا مَا سَعَىٰ

And that man shall have nothing but what he strives for-

(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Isra, Verse 19:

وَمَنْ أَرَادَ الْآخِرَةَ وَسَعَىٰ لَهَا سَعْيَهَا وَهُوَ مُؤْمِنٌ فَأُولَٰئِكَ كَانَ سَعْيُهُم مَّشْكُورًا

And whoever desires the hereafter and strives for it as he ought to strive and he is a believer; (as for) these, their striving shall surely be accepted.

(English - Shakir)

Clue: "wa huwa mo'minun"

[Enlightened Follower]

 

2 minutes ago, Engineer73 said:

How about these two verses, and you can ponder on them briefly  :

Surah An-Najm, Verse 39:

وَأَن لَّيْسَ لِلْإِنسَانِ إِلَّا مَا سَعَىٰ

And that man shall have nothing but what he strives for-

(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Isra, Verse 19:

وَمَنْ أَرَادَ الْآخِرَةَ وَسَعَىٰ لَهَا سَعْيَهَا وَهُوَ مُؤْمِنٌ فَأُولَٰئِكَ كَانَ سَعْيُهُم مَّشْكُورًا

And whoever desires the hereafter and strives for it as he ought to strive and he is a believer; (as for) these, their striving shall surely be accepted.

(English - Shakir)

Clue: "wa huwa mo'minun"

None of the verses you cited excludes non believers from heaven it simply states that believers are more likely to enter heaven because they are on the correct path.

[Engineer73]

1 minute ago, Enlightened Follower said:

None of the verses you cited excludes non believers from heaven

Do you have special definition for "non-believer"?

Surah Al-Lail, Verse 4-10:

إِنَّ سَعْيَكُمْ لَشَتَّىٰ

فَأَمَّا مَنْ أَعْطَىٰ وَاتَّقَىٰ

وَصَدَّقَ بِالْحُسْنَىٰ

فَسَنُيَسِّرُهُ لِلْيُسْرَىٰ

وَأَمَّا مَن بَخِلَ وَاسْتَغْنَىٰ

وَكَذَّبَ بِالْحُسْنَىٰ

فَسَنُيَسِّرُهُ لِلْعُسْرَىٰ

 

[The_Bible]

Quran 3:85 - And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers

Quran 3:19 - Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam. And those who were given the Scripture did not differ except after knowledge had come to them - out of jealous animosity between themselves. And whoever disbelieves in the verses of Allah , then indeed, Allah is swift in [taking] account.

Idk why ya believe different that E.L King, I mean it specifically says in Islam ONLY MUSLIMS will enter heaven. So why would any other religion be able to save the kafir? Bc a person does a good deed they are saved? So a person who is a athiest can enter heaven bc he sssupposedly  good? How does anyone know who is good in the eyes of Allah?

[Engineer73]

2 minutes ago, The_Bible said:

mean it specifically says in Islam ONLY MUSLIMS will enter heaven.

Not Muslims, but Momins.

[Enlightened Follower]

2 minutes ago, The_Bible said:

Quran 3:85 - And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers

Quran 3:19 - Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam. And those who were given the Scripture did not differ except after knowledge had come to them - out of jealous animosity between themselves. And whoever disbelieves in the verses of Allah , then indeed, Allah is swift in [taking] account.

Idk why ya believe different that E.L King, I mean it specifically says in Islam ONLY MUSLIMS will enter heaven. So why would any other religion be able to save the kafir? Bc a person does a good deed they are saved? So a person who is a athiest can enter heaven bc he sssupposedly  good? How does anyone know who is good in the eyes of Allah?

Abu Talib was a non believer and according to Shia belief he entered heaven

[The_Bible]

Quran 3:85 - And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers

Quran 3:19 - Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam. And those who were given the Scripture did not differ except after knowledge had come to them - out of jealous animosity between themselves. And whoever disbelieves in the verses of Allah , then indeed, Allah is swift in [taking] account.         

Idk why ya disagree with E.L. King when the Quran teaches that ONLY muslims enter paradise. Why would being "good" save anyone if they supposedly denied the messengers of a God? How does anyone know what is good to Allah? Those who disagree are denying their own book.