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In the Name of God بسم الله
DigitalUmmah

Wikileaks reveals US/Sayed khomeini links

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21 minutes ago, iraqi_shia said:

I think you said enough here, if you had any decency as a human being you would apologise and leave before you shame your self further.

Am i criticising a ma'sum, that me sharing something which is now global knowledge from a fairly reputable source (especially when it came to exposing saudi arabia) such a sin that I need to apologise?

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43 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

jesus christ why dont you actually read the text? its only short I'm sure it wont be TOO difficult for you or take up too much of your precious time, 

I have read it several times, and I think you are misreporting it. Where does he talk about American "interests"?

The message completely fits in the context: Americans being stressed out about American lives in Iran, Imam telling them back off to remain safe. It even has a threatening tone. (However, in the long run, they didn't back off, thus endangered American lives in Iran, the hostage situation)

 

Now, upon the hoax created over this news, Ibrahim Yazdi, the one who passed the message to Zimmerman, made some comments in an interview:

https://www.tasnimnews.com/fa/news/1394/08/17/910186/ابراهیم-یزدی-خبر-بی-بی-سی-را-تکذیب-کرد

Main points he made:

1- Aqa (He doesn't refer to him as Imam, he made a split with revolution later) Khomeini never sent a message to Carter first, this message was a response to Carter's earlier message.

2- This is not the first time this message is released, It was first published by Garry Sik in his book Sick, Gary ; All Fall Down. American’s Tragic Encounter With Iran. New York; Random House,1985 , since his version was biased and fragmentary, I (Yazdi) gave my own notes (that I had taken during those days in Paris) to a friend who published the full version in Farsi.

3-This report quotes from Aqa Khomeini "we have no particular animosity with Americans" which in fact and originally was " we have no .... with American people."

And other points.

Edited by mesbah

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1 hour ago, mesbah said:

I have read it several times, and I think you are misreporting it. Where does he talk about American "interests"?

The message completely fits in the context: Americans being stressed out about American lives in Iran, Imam telling them back off to remain safe. It even has a threatening tone. (However, in the long run, they didn't back off, thus endangered American lives in Iran, the hostage situation)

 

Now, upon the hoax created over this news, Ibrahim Yazdi, the one who passed the message to Zimmerman, made some comments in an interview:

https://www.tasnimnews.com/fa/news/1394/08/17/910186/ابراهیم-یزدی-خبر-بی-بی-سی-را-تکذیب-کرد

Main points he made:

1- Aqa (He doesn't refer to him as Imam, he made a split with revolution later) Khomeini never sent a message to Carter first, this message was a response to Carter's earlier message.

2- This is not the first time this message is released, It was first published by Garry Sik in his book Sick, Gary ; All Fall Down. American’s Tragic Encounter With Iran. New York; Random House,1985 , since his version was biased and fragmentary, I (Yazdi) gave my own notes (that I had taken during those days in Paris) to a friend who published the full version in Farsi.

3-This report quotes from Aqa Khomeini "we have no particular animosity with Americans" which in fact and originally was " we have no .... with American people."

And other points.

Edited 1 hour ago by

 

 now that bro is homework which the biased opinion will never find.

Wallahi it is all about that one fatwa and an elitist agenda, which bro spiritual expressed as maybe they love Imam(as) more than me or maybe their acceptance in front of Imam(as) is more,  with regards to himself a wannabe bladed zanjir zan and an actual bladed zanjir zan. 

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Repeating and in addition to what some of our brothers have stated so far:

1. These stories are not new. So using words such as 'leaking' and 'revealing' doesn't make sense here.

2. The exchange of messages between Imam Khomeini and Carter is not a secret thing on behalf of Imam Khomeini. The following is an example of the real and not fabricated messages exchanged between them in which, unlike what some claim, Imam Khomeini warns Carter:

Quote

Statements Date: January 8, 1979  [Dey 18, 1357AHS / Safar 9, 1399 AH]

Place: Neauphle-le-Château, Paris, France

Subject: Opposing the Bakhtiyar government and the consequences of a military coup

Addressees: Two envoys of the French President

[Giscard d'Estaing‟s Envoy: The reason for our meeting is to convey a message we have for the Ayatullah. This message is from President Carter for the Imam. In a telephone conversation with President Giscard d'Estaing, he requested that the message be conveyed to you. In his message, President Carter has demanded that the Ayatullah use all his forces to prevent opposition to Bakhtiyar. Attacking Bakhtiyar will have many dangers and is a gamble, which will lead to great casualties. In President Carter‘s viewpoint, avoidance of any explosion in Iran will be in the interest of all. The exit of the Shah is definite and will take place in the near future. In Carter‘s view it will be appropriate to bring the entire situation under your control to bring about peace. What is necessary to say is that the danger of the army‘s intervention is there and the materialization of this threat will exacerbate the situation. Won‘t it be better to create a period of silence and tranquility? President Carter hopes that this message remains absolutely secret and confidential. A means of direct contact with the Ayatullah should be arranged in order to be regularly informed about the developments; and this will be in the interest of your country, particularly the Ayatullah. The (French) Foreign Minister conveyed that keeping Carter‘s message unveiled will be in the interest of the Imam, for it will make the continuation of this relation possible. I have been asked to say that the message and its content are very logical, and the transfer of power in Iran must be controlled and accompanied with feeling of serious political responsibilities.]

Imam: The message of Mr. Carter had two points: One, agreeing with the current government, that is, the Bakhtiyar government, or at least keeping silent under the present circumstances and maintaining tranquility in this recession; and the second point was about the probability of a military coup or the prediction of a military coup, and the extensive massacre of the people that you are frightening us of happening. With regard to the Bakhtiyar government, you are recommending us to act against our law. Suppose I commit such a mistake, the nation will not be ready to do so. Our nation has endured such great difficulties and made such great sacrifices in order to emancipate itself from the burden of the monarchial regime and the Pahlavi dynasty. Our nation is not ready to waste all those sacrifices and allow the Shah to remain in power, or leave and once again come back worse than before; it is not ready to accept the Royal Council either, for that too is against the constitution that I have frequently explained. With regard to maintaining the tranquility, we have always wanted the country to be tranquil and the people live in peace; but it is not possible to maintain peace with the existence of the Shah; and we cannot restore peace with the existence of the Shah. If Mr. Carter has got goodwill and wants peace and wants to prevent the bloodshed, it will be appropriate to remove the Shah, not support the government [of Bakhtiyar], and not block the materialization of the people‘s will, which is a legitimate will and demand. And about the coup, just now I was informed that a military coup is underway and they intend to commit massive massacres; and they have asked me to boycott the American goods and warn the US that if such a coup happens they will hold you responsible; and if you have goodwill, you must stop it. They have told me and sent messages to me that if the coup takes place; the decree for holy war should be issued. I do not consider the coup in the interest of the nation nor in that of the US; if it (the coup) happens, will we hold you responsible. I don‘t know what the American nation will do in the future? Given that I am a cleric and always take the exigency of mankind and that of my nation into consideration, I advise you to prevent the bloodshed and not allow the bloodshed go on; leave Iran to itself, and if you do so, it will neither have a communist inclination nor will it lean toward other diversionary schools of thought; it will neither surrender to the East nor to the West.

 I emphasize that if you want to maintain peace in Iran, there is no other way than removing the monarchical system, which is illegal and leave the nation to themselves so that I set up a revolutionary council, consisting of pious persons, for the transfer of power to prepare the necessary grounds for the establishment of the government that is to be elected by the people. Otherwise, there will be no hope for peace; and I fear that if a military coup is engineered in Iran; such an explosion will break out that no one will be able to control. The Iranian nation is not afraid of a military coup, for it has already been several months that the military power has been vigorously dealing with the people, but they have not been able to maintain peace. Today, the system and the army have become weaker and shakier, for differences have surfaced within the army and many of them are joining us and will muffle the coup, but with a massacre that I do not like to happen. I recommend you to prevent a coup, for if it happens, the people will hold you responsible for it, and it will be detrimental to you. This is my entire message to Carter. But with regard to the French government, I thank the president who has questioned Carter‘s support for the Shah in this conference and I would like him to advise Carter to stop his support for the Shah and the current regime and government—that are all illegal—and to prevent the military coup so that tranquility is returned to Iran and the economic wheels start moving. Then it will be possible to export oil to the West and anywhere else that there is a customer.

SAHIFEH-YE IMAM (Volume 5), pages 366 to 368

http://en.imam-khomeini.ir/en/c5_3233/Book/English/SAHIFEH-YE_IMAM_Volume_5_

3. Another way for disproving these never proved claims would be using counter-argument. One of these counter-arguments is memories of General Robert E. Huyser. As he has stated in his book "Mission to Tehran", he was sent to Iran to prevent Revolution from happening. Ayatullah Khamenei in one of his speeches mentions this mission Huyser talks about in his book:

Quote

Another assassination like the one on the 17th of Shahrivar took place in Enqelab Square. This event is usually ignored. During this event, the taghuti agents attacked the people. An American general [Robert Huyser] - who on the last days of the former regime had come to Iran to save it from the Revolution - is quoted as saying, "I gathered the Shah's generals and asked them to lower their gun barrels." On many occasions, the Shah's soldiers used to fire into the air in order to scare the people, but this person asked the Shah's generals to lower their gun barrels and to aim at the people. As a result, the soldiers executed the order in Enqelab Square by lowering their gun barrels and aiming at the people. They martyred a large number of the people, but it was not effective because the people did not retreat. They continued their movement.

After that, one of the commanders of the Shah's army - Gharabaghi who was the commander-in-chief of the army at that time - went to Huyser and said to him, "Your order was not effective because it could not make the people move back." In his memoirs, Huyser writes, "What childish analyses they have. What do they mean?" He goes on to say, "Gharabaghi expected the issue to be over with one attempt, but this should continue. They should massacre the people wherever they see them."

This is America.

http://english.khamenei.ir/news/2136/Strong-economy-developing-science-and-revolutionary-spirit

I didn't find an online copy of the book. But here is another relevant part:

Quote

Traditional consensus has it that Carter's purpose in sending Huyser was to sack the Shah. In this volume, the General debunks this idea, asserting that his mission was first to attempt to save the Shah, and only secondarily to arrange for a strong military successor. https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/robert-e-huyser/mission-to-tehran/

 

4. Another point is that those fabricated messages and letters were denied by many involved individuals. One of these individuals whose name is mentioned in these texts is Ibrahim Yazdi. Everyone who knows him knows that he is not a pro-Islamic Revoultion and has had issues with Islamic Revolution.

5. Many other things can be said in this regard, but all things aside, as it was mentioned; البینه علی المدعی: The proof is up to the claimer, while these people have presented no fact to back their claim up and obviously they don't have any to present.

Also, in the OP, the issue of Iran Contra is used as an evidence for the Op's claim. It's enough to see OP doesn't know what he is talking about.

Edited by kamyar

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3 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

it definitely seems to me that wikileaks has slanted the leaks to make sayed khomeini look in as bad a light as possible, and altered the texts. from the other sources I don't think its as sinister as its initially made out

See that's why dear bro, Surah Hujrat, Ayat 6. always verify before spreading a news when it comes from Fasiqeen. Lest you regret ^^ as Allah swt says it.

You just proved that Surah Hujrat Ayah 6 fits you in this post :).

But as a solace, please do read till at least Surah Hujrat - Ayat 13, all of it sounds so much like all of us. Afte rall its addressing to Shia only.  

Edited by Irfani313

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On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 7:23 AM, iraqi_shia said:

You and spiritual are concerned about whether Aytollah Khomenei is working within an Islamic framework?

Perhaps you should get your own houses in order before you start looking at people who have really put their talk into action and put their lives on the line for the love of Ahl Bayt AS.

I think you said enough here, if you had any decency as a human being you would apologise and leave before you shame your self further.

Beautifully said brother, Thank you. Some people are just shameless.

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- وأخبرنا علي بن أحمد البندنيجي، عن عبيد الله بن موسى العلوي، عن علي بن إبراهيم بن هاشم، عن أبيه، عن عبد الله بن المغيرة، عن عبد الله بن مسكان، عن مالك بن أعين الجهني قال: سمعت أبا جعفر الباقر يقول:

كل راية ترفع - أو قال: تخرج - قبل قيام القائم صاحبها طاغوت.

Ali bin Ahmad al-Bandaneeji narrated from Obaydillah bin Musa al-Alawi from Ali bin Ibraheem bin Hisham from his father from Abdullah bin al-Mugheera from Abdullah bin Miskan that Malik bin A’yun al-Juhani had said: “I heard Abu Ja'far al-Baqir (as) saying:

Every banner that is raised-or comes out-before the appearance of al-Qa’im (as) will be of an oppressive arrogant.”

 

وأخبرنا علي بن أحمد، عن عبيد الله بن موسى، عن أحمد بن محمد بن خالد، عن علي بن الحكم، عن أبان بن عثمان، عن الفضيل بن يسار قال: سمعت أبا عبد الله جعفر بن محمد يقول:

مَن خرج يدعو الناس وفيهم مَن هو أفضل منه فهو ضالٌّ مبتدعٌ. ومَن ادّعى الإمامة من الله وليس بإمامٍ فهو كافر.

Ali bin Ahmad narrated from Obaydillah bin Musa from Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Khalid from Ali bin al-Hakam from Abban bin Uthman from al-Fudhayl bin Yasar that Abu Abdullah Ja'far bin Muhammad as-Sadiq (as) had said:

“Whoever invites people to follow him and there is someone better than him among people, is a deviate and heretic and whoever pretends that he is an imam inspired by Allah, is an unbeliever.”

 

حدثنا محمد بن همام قال: حدثنا جعفر بن محمد بن مالك قال: حدثني أحمد بن علي الجعفي، عن محمد بن المثني الحضرمي، عن أبيه، عن عثمان بن زيد عن جابر، عن أبي جعفر محمد بن علي الباقر قال:

مثلُ خروج القائم منّا أهل البيت كخروج رسول الله ، ومثل مَن خرج منا أهل البيت قبل قيام القائم مثل فرخ طار فوقع مِن وكره فتلاعَبت به الصبيان.

Muhammad bin Hammam narrated from Ja'far bin Muhammad bin Malik from Ahmad bin Ali al-Ju’fi from Muhammad bin al-Muthanna al-Hadhrami from his father from Uthman bin Zayd from Jabir that Abu Ja'far al-Baqir (as) had said:

“The advent of al-Qa'im (as) is like the advent of the messenger of Allah (as). If any of us, Ahlul Bayt, rises before the advent of al-Qa'im (as), he will be like a young bird that flies and falls down and then children play with it.”

 

Let me see.

Attempted to ignite Shia masses and engage them in wars worldwide despite hadiths suggests otherwise? Checked. (Khomeini)

Invited people to themselves despite there were/are many scholars who are more qualified than them? Checked. (Khamanei / Khomeini)

Raised flags before the al-Qaim a.s.? Checked.

As a british zionist agent shia who is on a MI6 payroll, I'd like to remind the words of Ahlulbayt a.s. to those who has eyes to see, who has heart to feel, who has mind to understand. Wassalam.

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54 minutes ago, celestial said:

Let me see.

Attempted to ignite Shia masses and engage them in wars worldwide despite hadiths suggests otherwise? Checked. (Khomeini)

Invited people to themselves despite there were/are many scholars who are more qualified than them? Checked. (Khamanei / Khomeini)

Raised flags before the al-Qaim a.s.? Checked.

As a british zionist agent shia who is on a MI6 payroll, I'd like to remind the words of Ahlulbayt a.s. to those who has eyes to see, who has heart to feel, who has mind to understand. Wassalam.

Those hadithes need to be checked by scholars.

I just know if it was not because of revolution of Khomeini and support of this revolution for the oppressed people, nowadays ISIS would have eaten all the Shias in the middle east. 

All the powers are taghuts except those who are trying to pave the way for reappearance of Mahdi and empowering Shia.

No hadith can contradict the verses of Quran whatever it is and from whomever it is:

"""

And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way, it will be paid back to you fully and you shall not be dealt with unjustly

(Quran 8:60)

"""

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44 minutes ago, maes said:

I just know if it was not because of revolution of Khomeini and support of this revolution for the oppressed people, nowadays ISIS would have eaten all the Shias in the middle east.

LOL. All those umayyad, abbasid, ottoman tyrannies couldn't eat Shias for all the history but some 50.000 cannibals would have eaten the approx. 300.000.000 Shia world?

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9 minutes ago, celestial said:

LOL. All those umayyad, abbasid, ottoman tyrannies couldn't eat Shias for all the history but some 50.000 cannibals would have eaten the approx. 300.000.000 Shia world?

If we were to follow your logic and do nothing, then yes.... they would. According to your logic we should not follow anyone into war. So when Isis attacks the Lebanese or Iraqi borders and sayyed Hassan Nassrallah orders men to defend we shouldn't. What should we do @celestial? Btw I am interested in where your beliefs stem from? Can you share please whose ideals and scholars you follow? 

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