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Wikileaks reveals US/Sayed khomeini links

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On 2016-12-03 at 10:46 AM, celestial said:

As a british zionist agent shia who is on a MI6 payroll, I'd like to remind the words of Ahlulbayt a.s. to those who has eyes to see, who has heart to feel, who has mind to understand.

I know you dislike Iran and Iranians even without the Ayatollahs involved because you think they all dislike Turks, but to make such an accusation, it is not a smal thing to claim.

Be careful of such accusations because they might come back to haunt you in a day of great need.

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On 12/3/2016 at 3:19 PM, kirtc said:

If we were to follow your logic and do nothing, then yes.... they would. According to your logic we should not follow anyone into war. So when Isis attacks the Lebanese or Iraqi borders and sayyed Hassan Nassrallah orders men to defend we shouldn't. What should we do @celestial? Btw I am interested in where your beliefs stem from? Can you share please whose ideals and scholars you follow? 

Your questions and many other questions like them in response to this logic have no answer, since people like you are talking about basic, clear and undeniable rational and Islamic principles. The person who posted those Ahadith was using Islamic contexts to oppose fighting against corrupt regimes like Shah’s and creating a government based on Islamic rules, which are Islamic principles.

"Using Islamic contexts to oppose Islamic principles" is among the weakest and worst things in the world ever. This is a Khavareji approach. When Khawarej wanted to oppose Caliphate of Imam Ali used the verse of Quran which says: “there is no verdict, except Allah’s”. Imam Ali begins his response to them by calling Khawarej using verse of Quran in such an ugly way as “کلمه الحق یراد بها الباطل” (This is a right word for batil (falsehood) purpose).

Now if those Ahadith are authentic, using them here for such a purpose is ”کلمه الحق یراد بها الباطل”.

Moreover, we have ahadith about those people who pave the ground for Imam Mahdi’s reappearance. Also, there are famous ahadith about flag of righteous groups before reappearance like flags of Khorasani and Yemani. So...

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6 hours ago, IbnSina said:

I know you dislike Iran and Iranians even without the Ayatollahs involved because you think they all dislike Turks, but to make such an accusation, it is not a smal thing to claim.

Be careful of such accusations because they might come back to haunt you in a day of great need.

No. Wrong.

I learned some Persian because I loved the language.

My playlist was full of Persian artists when I was listening music, I loved Persian music.

I love Persian culture. I like Persian people. I love Persian elegies.

My marja is Sayed Sistani h.a. who is a Persian.

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On 12/1/2016 at 5:48 AM, DigitalUmmah said:

@A true Sunni you keep talking about the spying in Khandaq and I have re read whatever I could find, but I still fail to see the relevance. 

in khandaq, the holy prophet (S) dispatched spies to find some information, then report back to him. the prophet (S) never went to the kuffar, promised X if they did Y, and then when he got what he wanted said "hahaha lol jk" and went back on his word

As this wasn't expanded upon:

"A man by the name of Naeem bin Masud Ashjai visited the Prophet, and declared he had three days ago become a Muslim, but had concealed the fact from the Quraish and that he was now ready to perform any service the Prophet should require, and if permitted, would create dissension between Quraish and Bani Quraiza.

The Prophet accordingly directed him to go and say what he might think expedient. He then went to Abu Sufyan who knew nothing of his having become a Muslim, and said to him, “You know my friendship for you, and how much I wish that God would favor you with His aid against your enemies. Verily, I have heard that Muhammad has formed a treaty with Jews that, when they are admitted into your ranks, they shall unexpectedly attack you, and thus enable him to overcome you. On condition of this treachery, he has promised them houses and lands taken from Bani Nuzayr and Bani Qinqaa.

My advice is that you don’t permit them to enter your army until they have delivered to you some of their chiefs, to be sent as hostages to Mecca, and thus secure yourselves from their treachery.” Abu Sufyan replied, “May God give you favor and a good reward for your counsel!” After that he came to Bani Quraiza and they were unaware of his conversion. He said: “O Kaab, you know my friendship to you.

Abu Sufyan has decided to drive those Jews from their forts and made them confront Muhammad and if they are victorious, it would be our victory. And if Muhammad wins, only they will be killed as they will be in the forefront and we will run away. And you must not join his forces till you don’t take some hostages from their chiefs so that if Muhammad is not defeated, they should not be allowed to go free.

And till the treaty between you and Muhammad is not fulfilled anew. If Quraish flees without defeating Muhammad, Muhammad will definitely kill all of you.” Kaab said: “You have done me a favor. We will not leave the fort before taking ten hostages from them.” And according to the report of Shaykh Tabarsi he told Abu Sufyan: “I have heard that Bani Quraiza is regretting their violation of treaty and they have sent a message to Muhammad that they will take ten hostages from you and send them to Muhammad so that he can eliminate him.

And that they will support him in the battle to make amends to him.

By thus deceiving both parties, Naeem succeeded in exciting hostility between the Quraish and Bani Quiraiza.

And it is narrated from Imam Muhammad Baqir (a.s.) in Qurbul Asnad that Amirul Momineen (a.s.) said: Whatever I narrate from the Holy Prophet (S) is absolutely correct. Even if I fall down from the sky or if a bird plucks me up, I would prefer it to attribute falsehood to him. If I say anything during a battle, it may be against the facts because the battle depends on deceit and trickery."

[Hayat al-Qulub, Vol.2]

https://www.al-islam.org/hayat-al-qulub-vol-2-allamah-muhammad-baqir-al-majlisi/battle-khandaq

Edited by Shaykh Patience101

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On 12/3/2016 at 3:46 AM, celestial said:

- وأخبرنا علي بن أحمد البندنيجي، عن عبيد الله بن موسى العلوي، عن علي بن إبراهيم بن هاشم، عن أبيه، عن عبد الله بن المغيرة، عن عبد الله بن مسكان، عن مالك بن أعين الجهني قال: سمعت أبا جعفر الباقر يقول:

كل راية ترفع - أو قال: تخرج - قبل قيام القائم صاحبها طاغوت.

Ali bin Ahmad al-Bandaneeji narrated from Obaydillah bin Musa al-Alawi from Ali bin Ibraheem bin Hisham from his father from Abdullah bin al-Mugheera from Abdullah bin Miskan that Malik bin A’yun al-Juhani had said: “I heard Abu Ja'far al-Baqir (as) saying:

Every banner that is raised-or comes out-before the appearance of al-Qa’im (as) will be of an oppressive arrogant.”

 

وأخبرنا علي بن أحمد، عن عبيد الله بن موسى، عن أحمد بن محمد بن خالد، عن علي بن الحكم، عن أبان بن عثمان، عن الفضيل بن يسار قال: سمعت أبا عبد الله جعفر بن محمد يقول:

مَن خرج يدعو الناس وفيهم مَن هو أفضل منه فهو ضالٌّ مبتدعٌ. ومَن ادّعى الإمامة من الله وليس بإمامٍ فهو كافر.

Ali bin Ahmad narrated from Obaydillah bin Musa from Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Khalid from Ali bin al-Hakam from Abban bin Uthman from al-Fudhayl bin Yasar that Abu Abdullah Ja'far bin Muhammad as-Sadiq (as) had said:

“Whoever invites people to follow him and there is someone better than him among people, is a deviate and heretic and whoever pretends that he is an imam inspired by Allah, is an unbeliever.”

 

حدثنا محمد بن همام قال: حدثنا جعفر بن محمد بن مالك قال: حدثني أحمد بن علي الجعفي، عن محمد بن المثني الحضرمي، عن أبيه، عن عثمان بن زيد عن جابر، عن أبي جعفر محمد بن علي الباقر قال:

مثلُ خروج القائم منّا أهل البيت كخروج رسول الله ، ومثل مَن خرج منا أهل البيت قبل قيام القائم مثل فرخ طار فوقع مِن وكره فتلاعَبت به الصبيان.

Muhammad bin Hammam narrated from Ja'far bin Muhammad bin Malik from Ahmad bin Ali al-Ju’fi from Muhammad bin al-Muthanna al-Hadhrami from his father from Uthman bin Zayd from Jabir that Abu Ja'far al-Baqir (as) had said:

“The advent of al-Qa'im (as) is like the advent of the messenger of Allah (as). If any of us, Ahlul Bayt, rises before the advent of al-Qa'im (as), he will be like a young bird that flies and falls down and then children play with it.”

 

Let me see.

Attempted to ignite Shia masses and engage them in wars worldwide despite hadiths suggests otherwise? Checked. (Khomeini)

Invited people to themselves despite there were/are many scholars who are more qualified than them? Checked. (Khamanei / Khomeini)

Raised flags before the al-Qaim a.s.? Checked.

As a british zionist agent shia who is on a MI6 payroll, I'd like to remind the words of Ahlulbayt a.s. to those who has eyes to see, who has heart to feel, who has mind to understand. Wassalam.

Do actually think you can justify your position form shi'i ahadith?

 

1.     Tawqi‘ ash-Sharif [noble signed decree]

"The reply to the letter of Ishaq ibn Ya‘qub written by Haḍrat Wali al-‘Asr, the Imam of the Age (‘a). In the said letter Ishaq ibn Ya‘qub posed questions to the Imam (‘a) one of which is: “What do we have to do in case of occurring social problems [al-hawadith al-waqi‘ah] during the period of occultation?” In reply to this question, the Imam (‘a) said:

وَ أَمَّا ٱلْحَوَادِثُ ٱلْوَاقِعَةِ فَارْجِعُوا فِيهَا إِلىٰ رُوَاةِ حَدِيثُنَا فَإِنَّهُمْ حُجَّتِي عَلَيكُمْ وَ أَنَا حُجَّةُ اللهِ عَلَيهِمْ.

“In case of occurring social problems, refer for guidance to those who relate from us, for they are my argument [hujjah] against you, and I am Allah’s argument against them.” ”

[Ikmāl ad-Dīn wa Itmām an-Ni‘mah by Shaykh aṣ-Ṣadūq , vol. 1, p. 483; al-Shaykh al-Ansari, al-Makasib; al-Tusi, Kitab al-Qayba, p. 290; Shaikh Muhammad Hassan in Jawaher al-Kalam, Volume 15, p. 422; Shaikh Morteza Ansari in al-Aada wa al-Shahadat, p. 46; Shaikh Morteza Haeri in Salat al-Jum’a, p. 154; Kashif al-Qeta in al- Ferdus al-A’la, p. 54]

2.     Maqbulah of ‘Umar ibn Hanzalah

“Imam as-Sadiq (‘a) says:

مَنْ كَانَ مِنْكُمْ قَدْ رَوىٰ حَدِيثُنَا وَ نَظَرَ في حَلاَلِنَا وَ حَرَامِنَا وَ عَرَفَ أَحْكَامَنَا فَلْيَرْضُوا بِهِ حَكَمًا فَإِنّي قَدْ جَعَلْتُهُ عَلَيْكُمْ حَاكِمًا فَإِذَا حَكَمَ بِحُكْمِنَا فَلَمْ يَقْبَلْهُ مِنْهُ فَإِنَّمَا إِسْتَخَفَّ بِحُكْمِ اللهِ وَ عَلَيْنَا رَدَّ وَ الرَّادُّ عَلَيْنَا كَالرَّادَّ عَلىٰ حَدِّ الشِّرْكِ بِاللهِ.

“If there is a person among you who narrates from us, is versed in the lawful and the unlawful, and is well acquainted with our laws and ordinances, accept him as judge and arbiter, for I have appointed him as a ruler over you. So, if he rules according to our law and you reject his ruling, you will belittle Allah’s law and oppose us, and to oppose us means to oppose Allah, and opposing Him is tantamount to associating partners with Him.” ”

[Usul al-Kāfī, vol. 1, p. 67; Wasā’il ash-Shī‘ah, vol. 18, 98; Al-Tusi, Tahzib al- Ahkam , Kitab al-Qada, Volume 6, p. 218, Hadith 514; Shaykh al-Ansari, Kitab al-Qada wa al-Shahadat, p. 48]

3.     The Tradition of Abu Khadija

“Abu Khadija said: I was commanded by the Imam [Ja'far as-Sadiq (pbuh)] to convey the following message to our friends [Shi’a]: 'when enmity and dispute arise among you, or you disagree concerning the receipt or payment of a sum of money, be sure not to refer the matter to one of these malefactors for judgment. Designate as judge and arbiter someone amongst you who is acquainted with our junctions concerning what is permitted and what is prohibited, for I appoint such a man as judge over you. Let none of you take your complaint against another of you to the tyrannical ruling power.’ ”

[Al-Kolayni, Al-Foru’ men al-Kafi, Kitab al-Qada, Volume 7, p. 412; Al-Tusi, Al-Tahzib, Kitab al-Qada, Volume 6, p. 303; Shaikh al-Saduq, Man la Yahzoruhu al-Faqih, Volume 3, p. 2; al-Khomeini; Shaykh Muhammad Hassan, Jawaher al-Kalam, Volume 21, p. 395 and Volume 40, p. 17]

4. 

“Amody transmits a tradition from the Commander of the faithful, Ali (pbuh): ‘The ulema [scholars] are the rulers [hakim] over people.’ ”

[Amodi, Qorar al-Hekam, Volume 1, p. 137, 506]

5.    

“Imam al-Hussain said: “The administration of all affairs of the society is in the hands of men of Divine knowledge, who are faithful custodians of His commandments and instructions about lawful and unlawful matters (Halal) and what is (Haram).” ”

[Tuhaf al-‘Uqal, Harrani Iibn Shobeh, Volume 1, p.238.

6.      

“Concerning the four great fuqaha: Abul Hasan Zurarah Ibn A'yan, Abu Ja'far Muhammad Ibn Muslim, Abu Basir Layth Ibn Al-Bakhtari and Abul Qasim Barid Ibn Mu'awiyah, who were among his students, Imam Al-Sadiq (S) said: "They are the trustees of Allah for the administration of the permissible and forbidden in religion." ”

[The Development of Shi'i Islamic Jurisprudence on Death and Dying from the Fourth/Tenth to the Eighth/Fourteenth Centuries, Hasnain Kassamali]

7.      

“The tenth Imam, Ali Al-Hadi (S) said: "After the occultation of your Qa'im a group of the 'ulemah will call upon people to believe in al-Qa'im's imamah and defend his religion by using proofs sent by Allah, so that they might save the weak minded faithful from either the deceptions of Shaitan or the deceptions of those opposed to Ali." ”

[Al-Ihtijaj, Al-Tabrasi, vol 2, p 260]

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Just now, Shaykh Patience101 said:

Do actually think you can justify your position form shi'i ahadith?

 

1.     Tawqi‘ ash-Sharif [noble signed decree]

"The reply to the letter of Ishaq ibn Ya‘qub written by Haḍrat Wali al-‘Asr, the Imam of the Age (‘a). In the said letter Ishaq ibn Ya‘qub posed questions to the Imam (‘a) one of which is: “What do we have to do in case of occurring social problems [al-hawadith al-waqi‘ah] during the period of occultation?” In reply to this question, the Imam (‘a) said:

وَ أَمَّا ٱلْحَوَادِثُ ٱلْوَاقِعَةِ فَارْجِعُوا فِيهَا إِلىٰ رُوَاةِ حَدِيثُنَا فَإِنَّهُمْ حُجَّتِي عَلَيكُمْ وَ أَنَا حُجَّةُ اللهِ عَلَيهِمْ.

“In case of occurring social problems, refer for guidance to those who relate from us, for they are my argument [hujjah] against you, and I am Allah’s argument against them.” ”

[Ikmāl ad-Dīn wa Itmām an-Ni‘mah by Shaykh aṣ-Ṣadūq , vol. 1, p. 483; al-Shaykh al-Ansari, al-Makasib; al-Tusi, Kitab al-Qayba, p. 290; Shaikh Muhammad Hassan in Jawaher al-Kalam, Volume 15, p. 422; Shaikh Morteza Ansari in al-Aada wa al-Shahadat, p. 46; Shaikh Morteza Haeri in Salat al-Jum’a, p. 154; Kashif al-Qeta in al- Ferdus al-A’la, p. 54]

2.     Maqbulah of ‘Umar ibn Hanzalah

“Imam as-Sadiq (‘a) says:

مَنْ كَانَ مِنْكُمْ قَدْ رَوىٰ حَدِيثُنَا وَ نَظَرَ في حَلاَلِنَا وَ حَرَامِنَا وَ عَرَفَ أَحْكَامَنَا فَلْيَرْضُوا بِهِ حَكَمًا فَإِنّي قَدْ جَعَلْتُهُ عَلَيْكُمْ حَاكِمًا فَإِذَا حَكَمَ بِحُكْمِنَا فَلَمْ يَقْبَلْهُ مِنْهُ فَإِنَّمَا إِسْتَخَفَّ بِحُكْمِ اللهِ وَ عَلَيْنَا رَدَّ وَ الرَّادُّ عَلَيْنَا كَالرَّادَّ عَلىٰ حَدِّ الشِّرْكِ بِاللهِ.

“If there is a person among you who narrates from us, is versed in the lawful and the unlawful, and is well acquainted with our laws and ordinances, accept him as judge and arbiter, for I have appointed him as a ruler over you. So, if he rules according to our law and you reject his ruling, you will belittle Allah’s law and oppose us, and to oppose us means to oppose Allah, and opposing Him is tantamount to associating partners with Him.” ”

[Usul al-Kāfī, vol. 1, p. 67; Wasā’il ash-Shī‘ah, vol. 18, 98; Al-Tusi, Tahzib al- Ahkam , Kitab al-Qada, Volume 6, p. 218, Hadith 514; Shaykh al-Ansari, Kitab al-Qada wa al-Shahadat, p. 48]

3.     The Tradition of Abu Khadija

“Abu Khadija said: I was commanded by the Imam [Ja'far as-Sadiq (pbuh)] to convey the following message to our friends [Shi’a]: 'when enmity and dispute arise among you, or you disagree concerning the receipt or payment of a sum of money, be sure not to refer the matter to one of these malefactors for judgment. Designate as judge and arbiter someone amongst you who is acquainted with our junctions concerning what is permitted and what is prohibited, for I appoint such a man as judge over you. Let none of you take your complaint against another of you to the tyrannical ruling power.’ ”

[Al-Kolayni, Al-Foru’ men al-Kafi, Kitab al-Qada, Volume 7, p. 412; Al-Tusi, Al-Tahzib, Kitab al-Qada, Volume 6, p. 303; Shaikh al-Saduq, Man la Yahzoruhu al-Faqih, Volume 3, p. 2; al-Khomeini; Shaykh Muhammad Hassan, Jawaher al-Kalam, Volume 21, p. 395 and Volume 40, p. 17]

4. 

“Amody transmits a tradition from the Commander of the faithful, Ali (pbuh): ‘The ulema [scholars] are the rulers [hakim] over people.’ ”

[Amodi, Qorar al-Hekam, Volume 1, p. 137, 506]

5.    

“Imam al-Hussain said: “The administration of all affairs of the society is in the hands of men of Divine knowledge, who are faithful custodians of His commandments and instructions about lawful and unlawful matters (Halal) and what is (Haram).” ”

[Tuhaf al-‘Uqal, Harrani Iibn Shobeh, Volume 1, p.238.

6.      

“Concerning the four great fuqaha: Abul Hasan Zurarah Ibn A'yan, Abu Ja'far Muhammad Ibn Muslim, Abu Basir Layth Ibn Al-Bakhtari and Abul Qasim Barid Ibn Mu'awiyah, who were among his students, Imam Al-Sadiq (S) said: "They are the trustees of Allah for the administration of the permissible and forbidden in religion." ”

[The Development of Shi'i Islamic Jurisprudence on Death and Dying from the Fourth/Tenth to the Eighth/Fourteenth Centuries, Hasnain Kassamali]

7.      

“The tenth Imam, Ali Al-Hadi (S) said: "After the occultation of your Qa'im a group of the 'ulemah will call upon people to believe in al-Qa'im's imamah and defend his religion by using proofs sent by Allah, so that they might save the weak minded faithful from either the deceptions of Shaitan or the deceptions of those opposed to Ali." ”

[Al-Ihtijaj, Al-Tabrasi, vol 2, p 260]

Celestial is not speaking about marja'iyya, he is speaking about Wilayat Al-Faqih.

He can correct me if I'm wrong, but he is saying anyone who creates a "Shi'i Islamic Government" is wrong. Or at least having a scholar dictate the law and order. Because he feels that is the Ma'soom's job.

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1 minute ago, E.L King said:

Celestial is not speaking about marja'iyya, he is speaking about Wilayat Al-Faqih.

He can correct me if I'm wrong, but he is saying anyone who creates a "Shi'i Islamic Government" is wrong. Or at least having a scholar dictate the law and order. Because he feels that is the Ma'soom's job.

Many of the traditions I listed specifically appoint a faqeeh as the ruler in the absence of al-Qa'im

Which negates the insinuation that he is trying to make that we should all curl up quietly in our homes till the Imam comes.

Edited by Shaykh Patience101

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1 minute ago, E.L King said:

Celestial is not speaking about marja'iyya, he is speaking about Wilayat Al-Faqih.

He can correct me if I'm wrong, but he is saying anyone who creates a "Shi'i Islamic Government" is wrong. Or at least having a scholar dictate the law and order. Because he feels that is the Ma'soom's job.

Thing is, this point of view is quite the cop out, and absolves the person from any responsibility. Well, the ma'soom isn't here, so we can't do anything! 

Also, how certain are people they will obey a ma'soom in the future? Many didn't in the past, and you wonder what excuses they made up back then? So maybe the prescence of a ma'soom or not is really inconsequential here. 

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5 hours ago, E.L King said:

Celestial is not speaking about marja'iyya, he is speaking about Wilayat Al-Faqih.

He can correct me if I'm wrong, but he is saying anyone who creates a "Shi'i Islamic Government" is wrong. Or at least having a scholar dictate the law and order. Because he feels that is the Ma'soom's job.

Yes that's true, because as I said in earlier posts, whatever Iran does, right or wrong, it is automatically counted as the general Shia behaviour/viewpoint. Think about all the events when the Islamic Revolution happened. Think about all the justice in Iran going on from the beginning of the revolution until today, it is all done in the name of SHIA ISLAM.

So, Shia Islam can't be a tool for dictatorships, can't be a tool for politics, because it is beyond all those, it is sacred.

Many prominent Ayatollahs refused the idea of establishing an Islamic Government when revolution happened, they weren't arrogants, they were aware of these truths.

We don't need a government above us to protect us or dictate what should we do globally. Russia is secular, China is secular, Europe is secular, but still they intervene in middle east so could a secular Iran.

Edited by celestial

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7 minutes ago, celestial said:

Yes that's true, because as I said in earlier posts, whatever Iran does, right or wrong, it is automatically counted as the general Shia behaviour/viewpoint. Think about all the events when the Islamic Revolution happened. Think about all the justice in Iran going on from the beginning of the revolution until today, it is all done in the name of SHIA ISLAM.

So, Shia Islam can't be a tool for dictatorships, can't be a tool for politics, because it is beyond all those, it is sacred.

Many prominent Ayatollahs refused the idea of establishing an Islamic Government when revolution happened, they weren't arrogants, they were aware of these truths.

We don't need a government above us to protect us or dictate what should we do globally. Russia is secular, China is secular, Europe is secular, but still they intervene in middle east so could a secular Iran.

The problem with that is you will hardly ever have a "secular marja". I don't know of any mainstream "secular marja". Another problem is that it is impossible for a Muslim, himself to be secular, by nature, if he follows Islamic Law.

Two of our 10 Furus are: Amr Bil Maroof and Nahi an al Munkar. How can you practice them in a secular environment, at the same time claim their wajib?

http://www.islamic-laws.com/AmrBilMaroof.htm

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1 hour ago, E.L King said:

The problem with that is you will hardly ever have a "secular marja". I don't know of any mainstream "secular marja". Another problem is that it is impossible for a Muslim, himself to be secular, by nature, if he follows Islamic Law.

Two of our 10 Furus are: Amr Bil Maroof and Nahi an al Munkar. How can you practice them in a secular environment, at the same time claim their wajib?

http://www.islamic-laws.com/AmrBilMaroof.htm

What were scholars doing before Iran?

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37 minutes ago, celestial said:

What were scholars doing before Iran?

Same as the scholars in Najaf who lived under Saddam. The reason why they couldn't implement the Sharia was because they couldn't, the central government doesn't allow it. However, Sayyed Al-Khoei for example, is all for implementing it depending on certain circumstances, that were certainly not available under Saddam.

Furthermore you claim you want a secular Iran. I presume you don't mean a Shahi dictatorship, but something like Indonesia. The only reason why the believers under the Shah could not practice Nahi an Al Munkar properly, is that they would be locked up as religious extremists or something. So under your system, how can uou have secularism but also allow people to practice something which is wajib, like Nahi an Al-Munkar? If you say we stop people from practicing it, then you are promoting sin, it would be like stopping people from fasting or praying, where do you draw the line?

Edited by E.L King

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3 hours ago, celestial said:

So, Shia Islam can't be a tool for dictatorships, can't be a tool for politics, because it is beyond all those, it is sacred.

I call this "the trophy on the wall" philosophy. 

Islam encompasses politics. You can't hang Islam up like a trophy nobody can touch, like some fragile artifact. By your logic, we shouldn't use Islam as a tool in our personal lives either, because it's too sacred and shouldn't be "tainted" by the inadequacy of our limited selves.

The point of religion was to use it, not make an idol of it. 

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On 12/1/2016 at 11:48 AM, DigitalUmmah said:

 

@A true Sunni you keep

talking about the spying in Khandaq and I have re read whatever I could find, but I still fail to see the relevance. 

in khandaq, the holy prophet (S) dispatched spies to find some information, then report back to him. the prophet (S) never went to the kuffar, promised X if they did Y, and then when he got what he wanted said "hahaha lol jk" and went back on his word

Its in the link you sent me and its about espionage and lying. I hope you aren't going to nit pick.

Pretty clear cut what bit are you disputing

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