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In the Name of God بسم الله
DigitalUmmah

Wikileaks reveals US/Sayed khomeini links

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Let us give it a shot bro.

If we have seen and know that it is fire and wikileaks says it is fire, we would of course believe them and still reconfirm.

On the other hand if we have seen and know water and wikileaks says it is fire, we would not believe them.  

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16 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Hypothetical question: if wikileaks revealed a link between yasser habib/ sayed shirazi and the USA, would you all be as quick to defend them & denounce wikileaks for being fasiqeen?

Honestly I wouldn't rush to defend them. i would think its a plausible link due Ayatullah Makarem Shirazis words.

However the 'evidence' presented agaisnt Ayatullah Khomeini seems to suggest to me that Ayatullah Khomeini outwitted USA.

I also highlighted evidence that Islam allows lying in espionage and you consistently refuse to comment on it

Edited by A true Sunni

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Even if this is true, I don't see the issue, you have to be wise in politics and that's exactly what Khomeini was. The greater good the Islamic revolution brought; such as creation of Hezbollah to defeat Zionists, who are the enemies of Islam and their work today in defeating the Wahhabi scumbags in Syria, the other enemies of Islam has been in my view, an excellent product of the Islamic revolution. The tactics Ayatollah Khomeini used to bring about this revolution are justified.

Edited by Mohamed1993

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2 minutes ago, Mohamed1993 said:

Even if this is true, I don't see the issue, you have to be slick in politics and that's exactly what Khomeini was. The greater good the Islamic revolution brought; such as creation of Hezbollah to defeat Zionists, who are the enemies of Islam and their work today in defeating the Wahhabi scumbags in Syria, the other enemies of Islam has been in my view, an excellent product of the Islamic revolution. The tactics Ayatollah Khomeini used to bring about this revolution are justified.

I couldn't "Like" this post because Ayatollah Khomeini was not a 'slick' politician. Did you ever read his "Warning to the Nation"?  Awareness is not a negative quality. The Shah at the time was -at a minimum- convivial with the Nazis.

Another reason is "The greater good of the lslamic Revolution" is not the formation of ad hoc, short-term political moves, but in the reassertion of decency, resistance to Western Satanistic thought-processes, and its general anti-imperialistic tone.

That the Gulf States are self-degenerating is another issue.

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1 minute ago, kirtc said:

 

I think I was misunderstood, I meant there was a lack of logic in the thread topic, and not in what I quoted. 

You remember when your teachers would ask for everyone to write their short-opinions or quick reactions to, say, a film and then later say they got a wide variety of responses?

Often, the same thing here on SC.

a la AuH2O, "Extremism in the Defense of Liberty -is NO VICE." So, on SC, everyone is entitled to write whatever they wish (within the 'rules'). No matter how much Big Mother Gov't doesn't like it.

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6 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

I couldn't "Like" this post because Ayatollah Khomeini was not a 'slick' politician. Did you ever read his "Warning to the Nation"?  Awareness is not a negative quality. The Shah at the time was -at a minimum- convivial with the Nazis.

Another reason is "The greater good of the lslamic Revolution" is not the formation of ad hoc, short-term political moves, but in the reassertion of decency, resistance to Western Satanistic thought-processes, and its general anti-imperialistic tone.

That the Gulf States are self-degenerating is another issue.

I should've said wise instead of slick. Hezbollah is a form of what you just described btw, I don't see it as an ad-hoc, short-term political movement. Zionism and Wahhabism are a threat to humanity and are therefore, indecent, both are Western and Imperialist puppets, and therefore, opposing them makes you anti-West/anti-Imperialist.

Edited by Mohamed1993

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1 hour ago, repenter said:

I was told about this thread now in chat......but im not even going to comment. It's beyond silly. 

Guilty!!! I already commented twice on it.

As far as our dear brother @DigitalUmmah, Muharram and Safer are over, Eid-ul-Shuja is fast approaching, times for blood matam is over till next 10 months, bro DU has tons of times at hand, and he doesn't go for blood donations.

So what remains is him, us, and Marjeyya.

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1-The main text of the alleged secret message doesn't prove things that are claimed here. In fact it has a certain threatening tone in some parts. So it's more of "we wanna do something in our country, you'd better back off, we won't hurt you." But the way the OP reported it, is as if he had said "O dear Americans just help me, I'll serve you better than Shah."

2- It is logical to think that this message was a secret in the eyes of Iranian leadership, but why Americans kept it as secret so long? They could've used it against Imam Khomeini and chnaged Iranian public opinion in that very hostage situation. 

3-In Shia movements, and any justice-seeking movements in general, the accusation of "people at the top are all the same and betrayed us the peasant" is a rather old propaganda. It's pure lack of basira to buy it. There are historical examples of it, sunnis telling Shia "why do you get overheated over karbala, after all, upon the realization of Kufan treason, Imam Husayn changed his mind and wanted to pay allegiance to Yazd." (This sunni line of thought is already accepted by some west-oriented Iranians)

4- And the duality of public slogan "marg bar u.s." and the alleged realtions behind the scenes.  Just to give an example,  Shia Imams wanted their followers to curse their enemies, why didn't they curs that very enemy in the face even once?

Edited by mesbah

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1 hour ago, kirtc said:

If it wasn't for Ayt.Khomeini, I don't think there would be anything called "the resistance" today. The USA/Israel would have their hegemony in the middle east, there would be no one to support Hizbullah/Palestine/Yemen. Anyway if you read one book of Khomeini, it won't take long to realize that this man is enlightened. After reading just one of his books, with out knowing what wliayat el fakih is I automatically supported it. And i was not disappointed after more research into the subject. It saddens me that there are so many shia that have the same level of ignorance as everyone else in the west and GCC countries. Even if you don't believe in the wilayat el fakih, we should trust Iran as an Islamic superpower to be leading the Islamic world, and I say that as a non-Iranian. 

bismillah.gif

I said it before, I am going to say it again....If it wasn't for Islamic Republic of Iran, all of us would be the slave of Zionist Jews/Saudi Wahabia , specially the people who are on their payroll and come here dressed as Shias. Their extremist views should have given us a clue as to who they really are. May Allah swt destroy and eradicate the enemies of Ahlul Bayt a.s along with their supporters and sympathizers Inshallah, Ameen Ya Rabbil Aalameen.

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7 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Hypothetical question: if wikileaks revealed a link between yasser habib/ sayed shirazi and the USA, would you all be as quick to defend them & denounce wikileaks for being fasiqeen?

If I will not defend I will not rely too , Wikileaks is not hujjat on any Muslim to believe. Whether they wrote anything about China or Isreal too. We have our own sense to understand things and Alhamdulillah Allah gave brain to all humans to understand by there own means.

When Ayatollah Khomaini was working for Revolution , is he was relying on Wikileaks ?

Edited by alirex

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2 hours ago, alirex said:

When Ayatollah Khomaini was working for Revolution , is he was relying on Wikileaks ?

All is well brother, don't get upset.

Lets pray for Ayatullah Khomeini, May Allah grants him closeness to Ahlul bait (a.s) & cause his status to grow more in hereafter.

These are just mere leaks, don't start leaking with these leaks. :) 

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8 hours ago, Irfani313 said:

Guilty!!! I already commented twice on it.

As far as our dear brother @DigitalUmmah, Muharram and Safer are over, Eid-ul-Shuja is fast approaching, times for blood matam is over till next 10 months, bro DU has tons of times at hand, and he doesn't go for blood donations.

So what remains is him, us, and Marjeyya.

I donate blood every three months. do you?

@A true Sunni you keep talking about the spying in Khandaq and I have re read whatever I could find, but I still fail to see the relevance. 

in khandaq, the holy prophet (S) dispatched spies to find some information, then report back to him. the prophet (S) never went to the kuffar, promised X if they did Y, and then when he got what he wanted said "hahaha lol jk" and went back on his word

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1 hour ago, Spiritual said:

All is well brother, don't get upset.
 

:confused: What are you talking about ? And what makes you think that i am " Upset " ? Too much assuming can make no sense. Its a open discussion and i made my point. What is the use to become Upset in the discussion ?

1 hour ago, Spiritual said:


These are just mere leaks, don't start leaking with these leaks. :) 

Don't play with a language which you yourself can't handle.

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8 minutes ago, alirex said:

What are you talking about ? And what makes you think that i am " Upset " ? Too much assuming can make no sense. Its a open discussion and i made my point. What is the use to become Upset in the discussion ?

Typical Indian anger :) , I am sorry if you misunderstood me.

 

14 minutes ago, alirex said:

Don't play with a language which you yourself can't handle.

Fact is that Wiki leaks does not exist in 70's. It was launched in 2006 I guess. So don't take my sense of humor seriously

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Just now, Spiritual said:

Typical Indian anger :) , I am sorry if you misunderstood me.

Don't play with me , its a request.

Just now, Spiritual said:

Fact is that Wiki leaks does not exist in 70's. It was launched in 2006 I guess. So don't take my sense of humor seriously

That is what i was telling. Wikileaks is nowhere hujjat for any muslim even if it was 5000 Year old.

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1 minute ago, alirex said:

That is what i was telling. Wikileaks is nowhere hujjat for any muslim even if it was 5000 Year old.

actually, wikileaks has been proven to be pretty reliable, have you forgotten "collateral murder", or the cable leaks, or all the rest of the stuff?

Im not saying that its hujjah - has anyone apart from you even said so? and JFYI the consensus amongst members here is that the leak is real, but all it shows is sayed khomeini outmanoeuvring the americans. you alone seem to be rejecting wikileaks based on.....reasons. 

the argument isnt whether the leak is made up or not, its whether the actions of sayed khomeini can be justified within an islamic framework.

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18 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Im not saying that its hujjah - has anyone apart from you even said so? and JFYI the consensus amongst members here is that the leak is real, but all it shows is sayed khomeini outmanoeuvring the americans. you alone seem to be rejecting wikileaks based on.....reasons.

When you study on " Fitna of Modern Age " or attend lectures related to that title , then you too will not rely on such sources. Agha Jawwad Naqvi of Pakistan gave 10 lectures on Wikileaks the Fitna of Modern Age , you can get from his website.

I am just putting my point , if thread participant don't like they can ignore it. Everyone have right to think as per there experience and knowledge. Simple.

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27 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

the argument isnt whether the leak is made up or not, its whether the actions of sayed khomeini can be justified within an islamic framework

What is wrong with offering peace and a chance at diplomacy with your enemies before a new stage? (Islamicly)

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1 minute ago, kirtc said:

What is wrong with offering peace and a chance at diplomacy with your enemies before a new stage? (Islamicly)

because sayed khomeini promised to protect the american interests in Iran, which is....questionable. 

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1 hour ago, DigitalUmmah said:

the argument isnt whether the leak is made up or not, its whether the actions of sayed khomeini can be justified within an islamic framework.

Mashallah my bro DU is better versed in the legalities of the Islamic framework than Imam Khomeini(as). Not saying that he cannot make a mistake but he is beyond sinning, and Allah(swt) blessed him with the naimah of forming the first truly Islamic Government and putting into place in practice the concept of Wilayatul Faqih. 

PS. The blessing of Allah(swt) is only the good(naimah)

       The best model of Government that can be perceived by striving(Ijtehad) and wallhu alam if it is perfect or not but is WIP and the rewards are linked more to         niyya and effort. At a later stage Fuquaha might even make it better but that is progression or WIP till the advent. True unquestionable perfection only resides in the Hujjah(ajtfs) but who can say we are not there. No one can say Yes or No. 

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3 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

I donate blood every three months. do you?

@A true Sunni you keep talking about the spying in Khandaq and I have re read whatever I could find, but I still fail to see the relevance. 

in khandaq, the holy prophet (S) dispatched spies to find some information, then report back to him. the prophet (S) never went to the kuffar, promised X if they did Y, and then when he got what he wanted said "hahaha lol jk" and went back on his word

JazkaAllah bro. Mine was just a joke. I'm sorry if you took an offense of it.

No I don't, I should though.

 

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